New Lens or New Camera?

belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 12:54

Hi Ozfam

Seeking advice from keen photographers on here with experience with Olympus PEN users.
Lately I’ve been unhappy with my travel snaps from my E-PM1, even after post-processing. The focus, sharpness, depth and colours have left me underwhelmed. I really only take my camera out when travelling or for special occasions, so most of my photos are portraits or landscape photos. Here are some photos that I’m content, but not completely satisfied with:

http://imgur.com/a/jHL6B

As a result, I’ve looked into my options, including buying a new camera or buying a new lens for my camera. I’ve narrowed my choices down to these three best options (IMO):

  1. Panasonic Lumix 25mm F1.7 Lens (Fast, cheap prime lens) @ $228

  2. Panasonic LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 II ASPH. Lens (pancake lens) @ $304

<Adding a compatible EVF to compensate for the lacklustre LCD on the PEN @ $180>

  1. Canon G7 X II (Better photo processing and camera experience, but much smaller sensor) @ $727

I’m leaning towards option 1, purely for the price and versatility of the lens. If my budget allows, I’ll probably buy more lenses in the future.
Not having tried any of these options, is anyone able to share their expertise to help out a beginner? Much appreciated.

Poll Options expired

  • 0
    Panasonic Lumix 25mm F1.7 Lens (Fast, cheap prime lens) @ $228
  • 5
    Panasonic LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 II ASPH. Lens (pancake lens) @ $304
  • 2
    Canon G7 X II (Better photo processing and camera experience, but much smaller sensor) @ $727.27
  • 8
    Bikies
Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • jinxsphinx on 05/06/2016 - 14:27

    Have you considered e-m10 (mark 1)? Better sensor than epm1 and they're going for around $500 if you wait for sale.. might be worth checking the current eBay sale. Built in evf. Image quality would be a step up definitely… but you'd probably still want to pair it with one of the nice primes if you want the most you can get from the sensor. (Em5 user here, mostly have the 25mm 1.8 prime on mine and happy with the results with no processing) Sorry that this is not one of your options!! I would def not go the compact route if you are already dissatisfied with micro 4/3.

    • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 14:44

      Thank you. I am planning on buying a new body but only if there's a significant difference in photo quality. As the PM-1 only captures 12 MP, I've found that I don't have a lot of room when I'm cropping shots. The overwhelming majority of my photos are out of focus, so maybe a new body with better autofocus is the answer.

      • jinxsphinx on 05/06/2016 - 14:51

        From what I've read online, the new 16MP sensors are a lot better than the 12. E-m10 also has tap screen AF so that should make getting in focus shots a lot easier.

      • jinxsphinx on 05/06/2016 - 14:52

        From what I've read online, the new 16MP sensors are a lot better than the 12. E-m10 also has tap screen AF so that should make getting in focus shots a lot easier.

    • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 14:52

      The SONY ALPHA A6000 seems to be around the same price with better image quality… edit: a6000 seems to be almost twice as expensive due to popularity

  • alphaomega on 05/06/2016 - 15:50

    I've got an Olympus E-M1 with most of the Olympus lenses. I always shoot using the touch screen except for sports. The touch screen makes for sharper photos I believe. My photos are usually sharp unless either I'm not still enough or the subject moves. I've sharp photos of everything from flying bees, flying whales to flying racing cars & bikes.

    My favourite lens at the moment is the 25mm 1.8. It takes great photos pretty much every time even in low light. It's a great all-round lens and takes beautiful portrait photos too. So… I'd certainly recommend an Olympus OMD (E-M1, 5 or 10) camera with that lens.

    Also, you have to figure in the factor that it might not be so much the camera, but you. By this I mean most people are not still enough when they take photos, although they assume they are. Most people are pretty still but not VERY still, and this makes a big difference especially if you're not using a fast lens. And if your subject is moving, sharpness is even more of a challenge. You certainly do get a lot better at this with practice!

    So that's my 2 bobs worth. And I'm not just a guy who has untested opinions. I've worn out a shutter already.

    • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 16:13

      Thank you very much for your insight. I'm certain that it's mostly my lack of skill and shaky hands, but i also tend to get the manual settings wrong a lot and either under or overexpose my photos. Sounds like i could really make use of a touchscreen, though

  • Danthemanz on 05/06/2016 - 17:21

    What lens do you have at the moment? If it's the kit lens just get a new body and the 20mm.
    The pm1 is not going to be great in anything but perfect lighting but the glass is even more important 100% of the time.
    I loved the 20mm before I went back to canon and Fuji.
    Do not spend the money on an EVF for the pm1.

    • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 17:30

      I have both kit lens that come in the twin lens kit (one is telephoto, and I barely use it).
      So the pancake 20 mm is good for general shooting?
      I guess $200 for an EVF is a bit much if I can just put that towards a better body.

    • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 17:33

      Would you agree with the above posters that I should choose between Olympus OMD E-M1, 5 or 10?

      • Danthemanz on 05/06/2016 - 17:40

        Generally yes. There are some nice Panasonic's too. As long as it's 16MP and not an entry level auto m43 camera.
        Also the Olympus P5 is a great camera, i used it with and without the EVF and it takes just as good pics and often with more features.

  • Danthemanz on 05/06/2016 - 17:36

    As long as 40mm equiv works for you in general shooting, i found it to be very useful personally.
    I like the lens a lot, the way it renders and the contrast. Its not perfect but some of my favourite pics ever were from it.
    There has been HUGE advances in the m43 cameras and sensors though since the pm1 though. Try and pick up a 2nd hand body from Gumtree or something. P5, EM5 EM10 or newer.
    I think it's time to move beyond the pm1 and kit lens from what I can tell from your photos.

    • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 17:41

      Thank you so much for your help. Time to look for a deal!

  • belongsinforums on 05/06/2016 - 17:56

    Here's option 5 for the poll: Olympus E-M10 Body only ($421) + Panasonic LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 II ASPH. Lens ($304) = $724

    • jinxsphinx on 06/06/2016 - 08:02

      Good prices! Where may I ask?

      • belongsinforums on 06/06/2016 - 15:41

        Ebay and techrific for the latter (check staticice). These are sans gst prices

  • snvl on 05/06/2016 - 18:07

    e-m5 on eBay ~$250, 20mm 1.7 ~$200. an E-p5 sold for $300 a few hours ago.

    I prefer 17mm, but it is more expensive than the 20mm and 25mm

  • hhbb555 on 06/06/2016 - 07:53

    Get something with bigger sensor, like apsc. That should improve the pic quality.

    • alphaomega on 06/06/2016 - 14:00
      +1

      No, it won't. Your comment sounds reasonable but all a bigger sensor will do is give you bigger images. It won't necessarily improve their quality or clarity. A better (not bigger) camera, lens & technique will give you better results.

      • hhbb555 on 06/06/2016 - 18:55

        Are you saying pocket camera could have a better image quality than say a sony nex camera?
        Or a micro four thirds against a full frame camera?

        • altomic on 07/06/2016 - 07:00

          No, he's saying communism works in theory.

        • alphaomega on 07/06/2016 - 12:29

          The reference was the camera he already owns, not a pocket camera. Sensor size matters, however…

          I am saying the E-M1 with 5 axis in-camera stabilisation certainly can give better handheld images than APSC. Lots of pros are switching to m43 for that exact reason.

        • hhbb555 on 07/06/2016 - 15:42

          @alphaomega: That's interesting…

          This guy is saying otherwise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ETb7uYKdiU
          And I would have to agree at least on the bokeh part, on the same f stop, bigger sensor should have a better bokeh

          on dxomark the overall score of E-M1 is 73, while A6000 got 82, and if we go up, A7 or A7 II got 90.

  • robertbruce on 06/06/2016 - 09:28

    get a good prime

  • PlasticSpaceman on 06/06/2016 - 10:22
    +2

    So - option 1) is definitely not a bad option as a 50mm equivalent, although it might be not quite wide enough for landscape etc shots, and too wide (risking some distortion) for close up portraits. option 2) - in general I'd avoid a 'pancake' lens if you are concerned about image quality. They (generally) sacrifice a bit of image quality for compactness. I'd also not bother with the EVF - way too expensive - better off putting that money towards a new camera or better glass. option 3) the Canon - a good camera I'm sure, but you have concerns about image quality already the smaller sensor might not be so good.

    I'm a sucker for the Sony range but if you're happy sticking with the micro four thirds system then I'd get a better lens. If it's mainly for travelling, then a wide angle (equivalent to 35mm) - so that would probably be around the 20mm or less, but good wide primes can be expensive. So out of all the above then, I'd go option 1 with the understanding that portrait shots should be at most 3/4 body shots (not just the face). Also, I understand that manual mode is hard but at least try to use the camera in aperture priority mode and in general stop down the lens a couple of f stops from wide open (lens 'sweet spots' vary, but general rule of thumb is two stops) to squeeze the best image quality out of a lens. SO if light is decent, then I'd stop that f1.7 lens down to around f4.

    If it's mainly portrait, then you'd ideally want a 40mm or longer. Maybe the Olympus 45mm f1.8 (http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/704-… - under $300 for a grey import). Olympus do make good lenses - don't judge them on the quality of the kit lenses - but keep in mind you can always go to a camera shop with your camera, put a lens on your body and take some sample shots. Look at them at home and then decide if you're happy with the image quality. Then choose to either get the lens or upgrade the body.

    • alphaomega on 06/06/2016 - 13:42

      This is really good advice… "keep in mind you can always go to a camera shop with your camera, put a lens on your body and take some sample shots. Look at them at home and then decide if you're happy with the image quality. Then choose to either get the lens or upgrade the body."

    • belongsinforums on 06/06/2016 - 15:46

      Thank you. I always shoot in manual, thus having a lot of bad photos from experimentation. As a rule, i domain for a histogram skewed to the right, which apparently means i have more light in my photos and can then reduce that light via post processing. Should I continue doing this? There's a cheap samyang wide lens that i could get…

      • PlasticSpaceman on 06/06/2016 - 16:31

        The general rule of thumb - when shooting raw - is indeed to shoot to the right but as with most rules of thumb it doesn't always apply. Some will say expose to the left to avoid clipping. Personally I'm old - old - school and try to minimise post processing to begin with. I go with something like those rules only when I know it's going to be hard to get things right due to time etc. Like using fixed focus & f-stop so that I know the subject is likely to be in focus….. good for street/candid photos. If I know there are going to be issues due to sunlight and shadows I might bring out the flash to fill in those shadows for a portrait or perhaps take multiple shots with +/- 1 or 2 stops either side to combine later for a landscape. Don't have an issue with pixel punishing, just lazy I guess!

        As for the Samyang/Rokinon/etc lenses - don't have one but yes I've heard a lot of good reviews on them as far as bang for buck. Some people note quality control issues ie they get a lens where the focus is off or some other problem - so I'd buy 'em off a local dealer or Amazon where you can replace/return it without issues. If you're running with manual only and happy to experiment, then could also consider a micro four thirds adapter for old lenses off eBay. I've got some gems to use on my Sony kit, such as Contax/Zeiss glass. Only pain with them is you generally have no exif data for the lens so (if you want it) you need to record that manually to add in later.

        • belongsinforums on 06/06/2016 - 18:31

          Very insightful. Thank you. I have found that particular rule of thumb can result in overexposed images.

        • PlasticSpaceman on 06/06/2016 - 20:56

          @tomkun01: Yes, it will. Theory is you are getting details in the highlights you otherwise might lose, and then in post you play with the image to get more overall detail than you otherwise might have got. So if you don't do the post processing then your images will frequently look overexposed. But you should only every rely upon this when shooting raw as it will give you maybe 2 or 3 stops latitude without major impact in image quality - if you do this in a lossy format like jpeg you will almost certainly have been better off not bothering.

        • belongsinforums on 06/06/2016 - 20:57

          @PlasticSpaceman: Helps being able to adjust WB with raw files, too!

  • alphaomega on 06/06/2016 - 13:52

    I think it comes down to how much you value photo quality. I, for one, put a high value on high quality photos & sharpness so I use the E-M1 with amazing Olympus m43 lenses. I wouldn't use anything else as I think that's still the best solution out there. My E-M1 took well over 200,000 photos before needing a replacement shutter, so it's a weather-sealed camera that is going to last a lifetime (for most users). So if you factor that in then you're investing in a camera & lens(es) that will last. Are you willing then to invest more??

    A couple of other things to consider… The 5 axis in-camera stabilisation of the E-M1 makes a world of difference getting sharp images. iAuto mode takes really good photos & JPGs straight out of the camera look great.

    • belongsinforums on 06/06/2016 - 20:58

      E-M1 definitely seems like a good camera for long-term use, especially considering the weather proofing. Decisions decisions..

  • EVA-01 on 06/06/2016 - 14:59
    +1

    Have a E-PM1 too. Bought a Panasonic LUMIX G 20mm f/1.7 II and it's been on it ever since. Makes a noticeable difference compared to the kit lens. I mainly use it when I don't wanna lug around with my 6D. High ISO is still quite meh compared to a FF but it's much more serviceable with f/1.7.

    • belongsinforums on 06/06/2016 - 20:59

      Thank you. I love the size of the PM-1 - it's actually even smaller than new pro digicams

  • belongsinforums on 27/06/2016 - 18:15

    Hi all. Currently overseas and have my new e-m10 and f1.8 prime with me. It's a big step up from the e-pm1 in terms of image quality and usability. Very happy with my purchases! Now I just have to get used to having a fixed length. I can see myself getting a wide lens in the future, and perhaps a pro lens down the track. $900 well spent

    • alphaomega on 27/06/2016 - 20:49

      Hey. I'm glad you're happy with your choice! Which lens did you go with? If you're shooting JPG, this is a setting to check… I don't know if this is the case for the E-M10 but it is for the E-M1. For some reason it's not automatically set to take the highest quality JPGs. So check your settings. On my camera… Menu / G / Set / 1 = L SF (which means Large, Super Fine). Make sure it's set to L SF if you have the option. By default it's probably 1 = L F (large, fine). L SF definitely produces better images. Then make sure you've got L SF chosen in your shooting options. Done.

      • belongsinforums on 27/06/2016 - 20:59

        Yea thanks mate. A salesperson changed some settings for me, then i found a blog post online and changed my settings to match an enthusiasts`. I'm shooting in RAW so that I have more freedom in post processing.

        I have the olympus 45 mm prime lens. I also have a telephoto kit lens from my e-pm1 bundle, and apparently even cheap telephoto lens have excellent IQ, so I'll use that lens for the occasional portrait shooting. Hope to get my hands on a macro lens someday too.

        • alphaomega on 27/06/2016 - 21:29

          The 45mm is a great portrait lens! The Oly 60mm macro is fantastic. I've taken many amazing photos with it. I'm happy to email you some if you PM me your email address.

        • belongsinforums on 28/06/2016 - 11:33

          @alphaomega: crap it's the 20 something mm one, not the 45. I can't pm u, could you please pm me?

  • belongsinforums on 31/07/2016 - 19:03

    I had a lot of fun on my first trip with my new e-m10. I am particularly pleased with this photo. Highly recommended camera!

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