Kogan HK products come under Australian Consumer Law (ie Consumer Guarantee aka Statutory Warranty)?

surm on 24/08/2016 - 17:04
Last edited 25/08/2016 - 17:44

When consumer buy products from Kogan.com website and when the products are supplied and sold by "Kogan HK" (according to what Kogan says), do those products still come under the Australian Consumer Guarantee?

I was assuming this was not the case, however, Kogan.com website, while trying to differentiate between Kogan AU and Kogan HK products, still carry the standard "…Our goods come with guarantees that cannot be excluded under the Australian Consumer Law. The warranties and product support that we offer and provide pursuant to our Terms and Conditions are in addition to the consumer warranties and guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law.." clause.

Ref: https://www.kogan.com/au/warranty-terms-and-conditions/

In addition, I saw the following comment on reddit

"Just to add a little more: Kogan is actually two companies, Kogan Australia and Kogan Hong Kong. When you buy something from their website, it may be coming from Hong Kong and the fine print says that you acting as the importer. AFAIK, despite what they may claim, even in this case you are still covered by Australian consumer law. "

Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/20ybfz/warranty_…

I would like to hear from the better informed.

Moreover, "Kogan HK" has an Australian ABN and registered in VIC.
Ref: http://www.abr.business.gov.au/SearchByAbn.aspx?SearchText=5…

Update: 25/08/2016
Kogan confirmed to me in an email that Kogan HK products are covered under the Australian Consumer Law. This is also stated in their website. (see comment 1)

Anyway, getting them to honour the Consumer Guarantee can be a long and difficult process.
Eg. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/207477
Thanks Spackbace for the link.

Thank you everyone for your input.

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Comments

  • surm on 24/08/2016 - 17:21

    Ah…found the below.

    9. Faulty or damaged goods

    Kogan HK will repair, replace or refund faulty or damaged Products in accordance with the Warranty Terms and Conditions and Your rights under the Australian Consumer Law.

    https://www.kogan.com/au/terms-and-conditions/#other-product…

    Does this mean, we don't have to buy extended warranties from Kogan as long as we are satisfied with the Consumer Guarantee of the ACL?

  • resisting the urge on 24/08/2016 - 17:25

    Can't see how they can be encouraged to accept responsibility as the vendor when you are the importer. They remain the vendor under HK law. If considered the vendor under Au law, you'd have to take them to Court, and an overseas org can simply avoid bothering to present at an Au Court.

    Kogan HK may be a business entity and thus have an ABN but the question is who owns it, if it is Kogan HK, PLC/Ltd registered in HK then they are vendor and will no doubt be very able to avoid accountability even if consumer advocates like to term their accountability under the ACL in the same mealy-mnouthed way that Kogan's lawyers deliberately have in the clause you quoted. All that sounds very safe, but does not stand up to the 'so what happens if a product fails or is mis-supplied'

    All that said, if bought via eBay.com.au, the Buyer Protection gurantee will force them to cover return freight and a refund in line with ACL.

    • surm on 24/08/2016 - 17:27

      All that said, if bought via eBay.com.au, the Buyer Protection gurantee will force them to cover return freight and a refund in line with ACL.

      I didn't know that. So if I bought products from Kogan via ebay.com.au, are those products covered under the ACL?

      • resisting the urge on 24/08/2016 - 17:31

        IIRC that is what eBay effectively enforces. I am not aware that they are enforcing the entire ACL on international vendors, but it seems to be this to me so far. It is a recent change.

        I recently sent something back to europe where the fright cost as much as the item did. The vendor was refusing to cover it.

        ebay paid the return freight and then when Proof of delivery was available, they refunded the (free fright) item cost in full. I imagine the vendor had to cover the whole thing at twice the cost of the sale.

        • surm on 24/08/2016 - 17:33

          Was it eBay or paypal that paid for the return freight?

        • resisting the urge on 24/08/2016 - 17:40

          @surm: I do believe it's eBay these days, all comms were with them.

          PayPal has proven too large a fish to swallow so they're selling it again. But they've got the 100% integration which is all they cared about.

  • spackbace on 24/08/2016 - 17:27

    Not necessarily

    https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/sales-delivery/buying-para…

    Read through that, although stating you have rights, it also pretty much says Buyer Beware

    And is this just you wanting to know, or is there more to it?

    • surm on 24/08/2016 - 17:32

      I am waiting for refund for a boot looping LG G4 bought from Kogan via ebay.com.au. It has taken over 3 weeks and they are talking about giving me a store credit. They claim they are in the process of sending me a replacement LG G4 and I have to return it to them, and then I would be eligible for store credit. So it looks like a long wait. I wanted a refund so that I can buy a phone from some other shop but didn't know whether I have a right for it.

      • resisting the urge on 24/08/2016 - 17:42

        Just be sure to follow the process exactly and keep all comms courteous and measured. Kogan should solve it for you in accordance with the ACL but don't go demanding/quoting as it is eBay rules (AFAIK) that compel your vendor. If you get frustrated, open an eBay case but be patient. You may only have so many of these you can open each year…

        • surm on 24/08/2016 - 17:48

          Kogan should solve it for you in accordance with the ACL

          This is what I wanted to learn. Whether Kogan (Kogan HK) is bound to solve it under the ACL or not. At the moment, I feel like I am at their mercy.

  • fruit on 24/08/2016 - 17:52
    +2

    In my opinion Yes, they are conducting business in Australia. See ACCC v Valve Corporation http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2016/196.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=title(%222016%20FCA%20196%22)

    • surm on 24/08/2016 - 18:14

      205: For these reasons, even if Valve did not engage in conduct in Australia, the Australian Consumer Law was engaged because it was an incorporated body which was carrying on business in Australia.

      Thanks for the link. It looks like the above is similar to the case of Kogan HK.

  • spackbace on 24/08/2016 - 18:24
    +1

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/207477

    Required a court case to warranty fix a grey-import product under ACL

    So whilst you may think you're in the right, there's also a lot of hoops to go through to get it sorted.

    Up to you as to how far you wanna push, and how much your time is worth.

    • surm on 24/08/2016 - 18:47

      Thanks for the link. But, did it matter whether Kogan was a grey importer in this case? Even if a local retailer refuses to honour warranty, the consumer will still have to take them to the tribunal.

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