Hoorah for the $6.3B budget cuts!

moo on 14/09/2016 - 19:30
Last edited 16/09/2016 - 19:27

Just read through the content of the latest 6.3B budget cuts: Link

Out of everything they have proposed, I am pretty chuffed about this:

They will also be stopped from leaving Australia, with the government set to introduce Departure Prohibition Orders.

Will stop those who are on HECS to leave the country to avoid repaying their loan. I hope the above will get enforced strictly! :). Loving it!

What are your thoughts on the latest budget cuts and how will it affect you?

16/9 Edit - It would seem that the debt recovery doesn't extend to HELP/HECS debt further to the discussion below. It will be interesting to see how ATO will actively enforce this as part of the debt recovery activities.

16/9 Edit 2 - Added a poll on how will the budget cut affect your OzBargaining ways…

Poll Options

  • 4
    Doesn't affect me at all - The latest budget cuts does not affect me at all.
  • 7
    I'm somewhat affected - I will rely more on OzBargain to hunt for bargains to improve my bottom line
  • 2
    I can't afford to shop anymore - I will minimise my OzBargain activities to curb my spending.
  • 2
    What is a budget cut?
Financial

Comments

  • ProspectiveDarkness on 14/09/2016 - 19:38
    +5

    Will stop those who are on HECS to leave the country to avoid repaying their loan. I hope the above will get enforced strictly! :). Loving it!

    Not as far as I can tell. That part applied to "certain social welfare debtors". I can't find anything relating that to HECS.

    • the-mal on 14/09/2016 - 19:46
      +1

      Yes, you're right, the departure enforcement orders won't apply to those with HECS/HELP debt. It's for those who accumulate debt via welfare schemes (eg overpayments) and don't organise repayment schedules.

      OP either misread or misrepresented it.

      • moo on 14/09/2016 - 20:32
        +2

        Assuming if you're correct (which you could be), the heading of "IF YOU OWE THE GOVERNMENT MONEY …" in the article would suggest that student loans etc can also be considered as a form of owing the government money. Either way, I am happy with the tighter fiscal policies as we definitely need it. Next is to abolish the negative gearing…

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 14/09/2016 - 20:39
          +2

          The documentation for the omnibus matters just a bit more than a subheading in the article.

        • moo on 14/09/2016 - 20:52
          -2

          @ProspectiveDarkness: Whilst I don't disagree with you, however the actual Omnibus bill isn't exactly easy to interpret without actually going through each section of the bill. However in the Debt Recovery section, it does indicate that:

          102A Secretary may make departure prohibition orders
          (1) The Secretary may make an order (a departure prohibition order ) prohibiting a person from departing from Australia for a foreign country if:
          (a) the person has one or more debts to the Commonwealth under this Part; and
          (b) there are not arrangements satisfactory to the Secretary for the one or more debts to be wholly paid; and
          (c) the Secretary believes on reasonable grounds that it is desirable to make the order for the >purpose of ensuring that the person does not depart from Australia for a foreign country without:
          (i) having wholly paid the one or more debts; or
          (ii) there being arrangements satisfactory to the Secretary for the one or more debts to be wholly paid.

          Happy to be stood corrected though!

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 14/09/2016 - 21:00
          +6

          @moo:

          (a) the person has one or more debts to the Commonwealth under this Part

          i.e. only the 5 welfare schemes it mentions in this part of the bill. None of which include HECS. I'm 99.9% sure HECS isn't even classed as social welfare.

        • the-mal on 14/09/2016 - 21:03
          +2

          @moo:

          You're disregarding the line right under the one you bolded:

          (b) there are not arrangements satisfactory to the Secretary for the one or more debts to be wholly paid

          HECS/HELP debt by nature has a very clear arrangement and facility for the debt to be wholly repaid. The government has recently put in legislation to ensure there's an ATO notification obligation for those with HECS/HELP debt who are intending to go overseas for >6 months.

          Furthermore:

          From 1 July 2017, if you have a HELP debt, you live overseas, and earn above the repayment threshold, you will be obliged to make repayments on your debt.

          This is a completely different kettle of fish than those with welfare debt and no repayment schemes looking to skip the country and HECS/HELP debt doesn't meet the criteria from the bill as it does have clear process and facility for whole repayment.

        • moar bargains on 15/09/2016 - 13:31
          -1

          @the-mal: Correct. This relates to welfare debt (I.e. Centrelink), nothing to do with HECS.

  • tassieeagle on 14/09/2016 - 19:42
    +4

    We are a single income family and I'm about to go to uni. Yeah, not particularly happy

    • Domingo on 16/09/2016 - 16:16

      About which bit? the lower threshold for HECS?

      • tassieeagle on 16/09/2016 - 18:00
        +2

        I'm going to do an education degree, so I will miss out on the benefit that they are cutting off for that degree as well as nursing etc. Not fully across the family tax benefit stuff but expect to receive less.

  • kipps on 14/09/2016 - 19:49

    [edit: nm]

  • chumlee on 14/09/2016 - 19:55
    +16

    They could raise triple that if they made multinationals pay tax. I would rather they stop CEO's of multinationals from leaving the country until they drop a few hundred million $$ in the tax tin at departures desk

    • niner on 14/09/2016 - 20:03
      -3

      No, AUstralians love iphones and macbooks.

      • altomic on 14/09/2016 - 20:41
        +3

        and ebay and starbucks

      • RockyRaccoon on 15/09/2016 - 06:37
        +5

        Google
        Campbell's (Arnotts)
        Transfield
        Chevron
        Steinhold (freedom, snooze)
        Macquarie
        RACV RACQ
        Samsung
        Exxon
        Nissan
        HP
        Qatar Airways
        Emirates
        Virgin
        Credit Swisse
        and more

        Guess Australians love their Bickies, oil, cars just as much

        see http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/which-of-australi…

        • arcticmonkey on 18/09/2016 - 22:41
          +1

          If you have a sick parent in hospital, the tax those companies aren't paying could be the difference between life and death.

          Our health, education and services are gradually bring taken away and we are being asked to pay more while big business laughs all the way to the Dutch, Irish or Cayman Island bank.

  • indium on 14/09/2016 - 20:54

    So even with these cuts and more to come the deficit will still be $84 Billion over next four years bringing our net debt to $355bn in 2020?

    We doomed?

    The US had a US$107 billion deficit in august alone, that makes me feel a little bit better about our situation but not the global one

    • moo on 14/09/2016 - 21:02
      +2

      To put things into a bit more perspective, US has an estimated population of 318M compared to Australia's 22M (as of 2014).

    • the-mal on 14/09/2016 - 21:09
      +2

      The US also bore the brunt of the (admittedly self-inflicted) sub-prime mortgage disaster that kicked of the good old Global Financial Crisis. Add endless "world policing" into this (wars/conflicts are expensive) and you get the US's debt situation.
      I wouldn't be using the US as a financial yardstick for anything but "what not to do".

      • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2016 - 12:14

        How many fa-18s and Orions do you think we have flying over Iraq and Syria + all the support needed

        • infinite on 16/09/2016 - 14:55

          Yeah but they'll re-coup a lot of that money via arms sales, re-building contracts & govt liaisons/contractors they then have the next govt they install there, pay for (via aid-money from Europe & Australia, no less). They'll also then get a strategic foot-hold and comm's base for global and economic expansion in the region. That shit in the long term (30-60yrs) is worth waaaaaay more to them than a ten's of billions up-front right now. They also then get the added bonus of being able to effectively spend their own donated billions of aid-money on American companies & Fed-owned corporations. So it's a win-win for them, as they literally recoup their own spending, then get to spend it all again a second time over increasing their military and economic presence on the opposite side of the world, in an oil & mineral rich area.

  • zoombie on 14/09/2016 - 21:07
    +1

    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the government campaigned on a corporate tax cut? So we can afford to give the big end a tax break (not that they are paying much tax anyway) but we need to cut R&D grants.

    • the-mal on 14/09/2016 - 21:11
      +1

      Corporate tax cuts (in theory) stimulate market growth which leads to jobs growth and productivity growth. Before anyone argues, note I did say in theory.

      Income tax cuts / welfare increases don't have this same effect.

      That was the rationale behind the company tax cuts (that now have precisely zero chance of every making it through the senate so it's a bit of a moot point).

      • chumlee on 14/09/2016 - 21:18
        +1

        Yes in theory. In reality not so sure. My employer will put on more staff if we win a new client or increase our activity with current clients and we reduce staff numbers when we lose work or clients. The tax rate never comes into our decision to employ people.

        With all the tax deductions and loopholes possible, the effective tax rate for companies actually paying tax would be about 20%.

      • zoombie on 14/09/2016 - 21:25

        I'm not an economist but if the argument for corporate tax is to stimulate jobs growth then surely income tax cuts and welfare increase will have the same affect (although I'm not sure if its the same degree of effect).
        When people have more in their pocket (income or welfare increase) they are likely to spend thus it stimulate the economy which leads to jobs growth. This assumption is the same assumption that's applied to corp tax cut.
        I'm assuming the reason why it have zero chance of making it through the senate is because of the 1 seat majority Turnbull government?
        If that's the case then my point still stand. Had the government win by a bigger margin, they would have pass through the corporate tax cut and cut the budget at the same time. If our budget is in such a bad shape, why reduce revenue and then made up for it by cutting expense?

  • lupiter on 15/09/2016 - 08:50
    +2

    Most people I know who've had debts to Centrelink/Human Services only did so because of errors on the part of the dept, not the recipient's fault at all. Mostly being judged as having been "overpaid" when either (a) recipient received payment but were latter assessed as not qualified but were reassessed later and were but still had to pay back or (b) was declared non-compliant for failing to do the impossible (e.g. be at centrelink office and a job interview at the same time; attend appointment more than X min drive away with less than X min notice).

    But those people wouldn't have skipped the country because they wouldn't have been able to afford the plane ticket!

    • lupiter on 15/09/2016 - 08:52

      Also, the debt owed to Human Services looks big on paper because everything at government scale looks big.

    • RockyRaccoon on 15/09/2016 - 10:26

      But those people wouldn't have skipped the country because they wouldn't have been able to afford the plane ticket!

      I understand this, but what the point of your post? , as correctly they wont be affected

      • lupiter on 15/09/2016 - 13:12
        +2

        These changes won't have that much impact on gov savings, but the idea of hounding people on welfare is very popular. Even if all it does is trap them in poverty. :/

  • Seraphin7 on 15/09/2016 - 10:39

    Seriously, put me on a 0.1% commission of costs saved in the Federal budget and the deficit would be wiped out within the hour!

  • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2016 - 12:27
    +2

    Shame we all don't get to pick on the disabled this week, now the para-limpics are on.
    Have to wait till Christmas to put the boot in to the crippled bludgers!

    • arcticmonkey on 18/09/2016 - 22:46
      +2

      Don't give Turnbull ideas. The Liberals are heartless enough as it is.

      • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2016 - 01:07
        +2

        Not giving ideas
        Reflecting Reality of most Australians attitude
        If it wasn't for all these old, sick,disabled, climate scientists, trees blocking my view,
        I wouldn't be paying so much tax
        If only they were all young and healthy like me
        Had a nice cushy office job,
        and only sweated in an ergonomicly designed gym
        Still amazes me how self-centred sheeple are, especially when It comes to having opinions on things they are completely ignorant about
        Easy to spot as they regurgitate whatever passes for news/tv/Web opinion
        Anyone about to reply' huh what '
        Turn that thing on between your ears & try to think for yourself as you read
        Mmmmok

        • ggrant on 19/09/2016 - 05:48

          Nice comments. Good to see OP enjoying other peoples pain. I would .like many pollies to be restricted from leaving too, until they pay back any public money they appropriate in their role. Or spend irresponsibly. Save a bit

  • outlander on 15/09/2016 - 12:35
    +2

    Will stop those who are on HECS to leave the country to avoid repaying their loan. I hope the above will get enforced strictly!

    You mean, those who get out of uni but fail to get one of the 3 graduate positions available in the entire country, so rather than get a job serving coffee at starbucks they go overseas to get experience before coming back to Australia?

  • Herotype on 16/09/2016 - 14:18
    +3

    As a current uni student with a HECS debt from a single income family, this is not looking too great….

    • arcticmonkey on 19/09/2016 - 18:10
      -1

      Hopefully you didn't vote for the Liberals and against your own interests. They pray on misinformed people.

      • RockyRaccoon on 20/09/2016 - 19:00
        -1

        Misinformed people?

        PRAY tell, you know how they PREY

        LOL

      • Herotype on 20/09/2016 - 21:28
        +1

        nah i voted labor, got a helpful leaflet from uni that highlighted important information about each party

  • syousef on 16/09/2016 - 15:00
    +1

    Keep cheering till you're living in a "3rd world" slum. Madness.

  • Sweaty-penguin on 16/09/2016 - 16:58

    Can anyone explain to me how they can enforce this? If you pay tax in another country how can Australia take any of it?

    • boonce on 16/09/2016 - 17:52
      +1

      "From 1 July 2017, if you have a HELP debt, you live overseas, and earn above the repayment threshold (A$54,869 in 2016-17), you will be obliged to make repayments on your debt." (self-assessed using online calculator)

      http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helpfulresources…

      Government is working on enforcement, it relies heavily on other countries' cooperating and sharing information. I'd imagine only a few countries sign up to this but hard to know and you will definitely be creating an obligation to pay if they release income information and you haven't voluntarily signed up to pay.

      • Sweaty-penguin on 16/09/2016 - 18:39
        +1

        That is what I was thinking. I would require near unlimited sharing of tax information which I feel would be pretty hard to get countries to sign up to.

    • moo on 16/09/2016 - 19:23

      This article from Feb 2016 may provide more insights.

      It would seem that ATO will require students to 1) register with them, 2) report their 'worldwide' income, and 3) ATO to make an assessment.

      However this it is interesting on how ATO is planning to monitor/enforce this:

      How will the ATO monitor every graduate?

      A range of communication strategies have been employed by the tax office to contact Australians living overseas to remind of their obligations, such as when they renew their passport, or when they return to Australia for short periods of time.

      The question is, how many HELP/HECS debtors will voluntarily 'report' their earning? It will be hard to undertake a income validation unless there exist cross-country governmental collaborations, which are not easily achievable given the complexities.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2016 - 18:58
    -3

    Happy to spoil the system and get the free money and not happy to pay back the favor for other (probably) losers who probably won't like to pay it back until the opportunities are gone and we all become proportionately and equally poor.
    Said the miserable losers in our leftist-socialist hugging nation!

  • supersabroso on 16/09/2016 - 20:33

    Hold on a sec, so what's the bottom line on the big issue here? They will actively attempt to prevent people from leaving the country for good and becoming foreign permanent residents/non Australian citizens if they have an existing HECS debt? Seems like it only applies to dole bludgers who got overpaid.

    Yeah, that should be the case. Why should we fork out billions of dollars every year to fund people that are just going to leave us??? Why should you get to run away with money you shouldn't have received through centrelink in the first place? The idea is to help you so that you can give back to us, not help you so that you can have a better life and improve the lives of people who helped give you what little you had to loan for your education (70% discount already received).

    If you can't find a job with your degree, then I'm sorry you are just not good enough or chose the degree at the wrong time, wait it out. If you honestly don't earn enough, the government doesn't expect 1 cent back anyway. That grace extends to you because you are an Australian citizen, if you wish to be a foreigner, then no sorry, we shouldn't have to pay $30,000 so that you can have the time of your life (yes, uni was a great time for most people, tons of free time, lots of slacking off/partying.) I know people who have gotten 5 different degrees and paid back about 10% in total, you don't want them to leave the country for good keeping the tax payers out of pocket by $90,000 - $110,000 per person.

    Obviously this needs to be implemented better for people who plan on returning to the country. In it's current state, this is too discouraging for those people. If it's only to do with centrelink, why wasn't this implemented when centrelink was invented??? Having a quick read of the rest of the bill however, it is extremely shocking. I'm surprised Labor cleared it, we must be in a tight spot indeed.

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