Cycling on The Footpath, Yay or Nay?

I commute to and from school daily by the highway on a bike.
I'm on the footpath because there is no way I'm cycling on the highway.
Here in NSW, it's illegal for cyclists to be on the footpath above 12yo.
I scan every driveway for cars, I go on the rough grass patches to give plenty of space to overtake pedestrians
I'd consider myself a very aware cyclist.

In the newspaper I'm reading stories of people getting hit by cyclists on footpaths with the cyclists not stopping.
This makes my blood boil for 4 reasons.

  • If you are on the footpath you must be alert, technically, you are in the wrong.
  • If you happen to hit someone you are morally supposed to see if they are ok.
  • Why does the media think it's ok to report bicycle hits and not pedestrian hits from cars?
  • We are getting grouped as an overall group and not the minority of cyclists. What if a car hit a pedestrian and the newspaper says "CARS KILL, TAKE THEM OFF THE ROADS" or similar

Personally, I've had 3 incidents with my bike:

  • A car pulled out of a driveway to the foot of the road looking down at their phone. It was around a blind corner and I always ring my bell for that corner, my bike took most of the impact. This would have happened whether I was a pedestrian or a cyclist. If I was a pedestrian, everyone would have gone crazy, but because I was a cyclist, no one bats an eye. (Side note, people, please, pull up to the footpath and not the road, so many incidents as a pedestrian as well)
  • I was walking my bike across a 3 second old green pedestrian light as a car comes speeding around the corner, into a 3 second old red turning light and almost hits me and the other pedestrians, my front wheel took a hit and me and my bike fell over. Couldn't catch the plate and didn't want to chase after since I didn't know the state of my bike.
  • Finally, I had two young adults in a white car tailgating me as I was going 30km/h down a hill in a 50hm/h zone. It was timed such that I'm 99% sure they wanted to get home to see the Game of Thrones premiere for season 4 or whatever. So they got closer and closer to me but I stood my ground. That's when they overtook me in a 3 lane street with parked cars on either side and passed me with (I looked down at my pedal on the side they were passing me on) 15cm to spare. I chased to get the plate, but they sped away. Recently there was a 1.5m passing rule for passing cyclists at this speed, I got 15cm. I relay this to the police on the phone and I get this: "well maybe they didn't know about the new rule". Fine, disregard the blatant dangerous driving for the fact that they didn't know a 6 month old rule. That's when I get a very sassy, unsympathetic "is that all?". Gee thanks police.

Where am I going with this?
I'm not fishing for sympathy, I just want it well known that there has been a ratio of 3:0 of cars nearly hitting me, to me nearly hitting a pedestrian. A 3:0 ratio doesn't warrant all this media outrage against bikes, and all these new rules against bikes.

I'm not saying I'm full footpath, mostly I will go on roads, there is just the odd occasion I need to be on a footpath.

As I driver, I don't want slow cyclists on the road, and all the horns I hear when I cycle on the road seem to agree with me.
Pedestrians couldn't care less about me, the ones I do come in contact with move over 2 steps, the nice ones move onto the grass, but I insist they get back on the footpath.
And police, I've seen 100+ cars see me as I cycle to school, sometimes I get "the nod" out of them. So they don't care.
As a pedestrian I don't mind at all.

Which leads me to my question. What's your stance?

TL;DR If the road is too dangerous for cyclists to be on, should they be allowed to go on the footpath at close to walking speed?

Poll Options

  • 90
    Cyclists should be on roads.
  • 339
    Cyclists should be on what's safest.
  • 25
    Cyclists should be on footpaths.

Comments

      • True - always have to be hyper vigilant with driveways where you are unable to see whether something is coming out. Sometimes it's still (mildly) safer than cycling on the road. Kind of have to judge on a road-by-road basis.

  • -1

    OP you should carry eggs

  • +3

    Just because you're using a mode of transport that is incapable of reaching the designated speeds doesn't mean you are excused for travelling as slow as you are. Going 30 in a 60 to 80 zone is inexcusable, and doing that in a car is considered an offence.

    The whole "you should be thanking me because I'm taking a car off the road" excuse is a load of crap; what do you think has a greater deleterious effect on the flow of traffic; one more car in the flow of hundreds (which is an increase of literally less than 1%), or someone consuming a lane going less than half the speed limit? People plan their journeys according to the speeds on the route, so encountering such a slow down will mean they will seek to change lanes and get around them.

    The biggest cause of congestion is the variables in speed. Imagine a large roundabout filled with two cars; they could go around and around endlessly without ever stopping. However, if you add another 10 cars, then there will be variations due to people going a tad slower/faster, which leads to braking and thus cars behind breaking, and therefore a flow on effect. If you were to double the amount of cars but have them controlled by computers keeping them at a constant speed, then they would never stop.

    Cyclist in one lane = Variable in speed = Congestion
    Drivers change lanes to get past cyclist = Variable in speed in next lane due to merging at the speed of the cyclist = Congestion

    I'm a firm believer that people can do more or less whatever they want, so long as their decision does not impact others in a statistically significant way. If you want to ride your bike, then that's okay. But if your riding impacts others like it does, then that's not okay, and you should be doing it elsewhere, whether that's the footpath or in service lanes etc. If that isn't an option, then opt for an alternative route. If there isn't one, then don't cycle.
    The typical douchebag cyclist will complain that drivers are unnecessarily harsh towards them. How about I block your lanes whilst going at a speed that is less than half of what your capable of, and see how fun that is.

    • I should add, though, that this isn't about cyclists vs cars. It's about people being inconsiderate and forcing others to travel at their speed.

      If you're driving significantly under the speed limit, then you're the same. If you're alone, it's fine; but if you're holding people up, then it's not.
      And the same goes for people who walk around in a daydream, 4 wide with their friends. If you walk to one side, then it's fine; but don't block others.

      Slow drivers should receive more criticism than they do, since they're more common than cyclists. Granted, driving 10 to 15 under the speed limit isn't as bad as cycling 40+ under, but it is still inconsiderate as all hell. And they can also be worse, such as driving under the speed limit, on a freeway in the right lane, at the same speed as the driver next to them; there's no way around these douchebags.

      • In your mind, is this happening in a single lane or multilane road?

        • Both.

          Single lane roads are worse for both slow drivers and cyclists, since there is no opportunity to overtake either, unless the cyclist is not riding in the middle of the road. In those situations, it is possible to get past a cyclist if they can move across (i.e no parked cars) and if they're willing; this happens, but not always.

          Multi lane roads are also problematic, but for other reasons. Whilst it is easier to get around due to having other lanes, it is also more dangerous in peak times since lane changing makes the environment less safe for all.

        • @Strahany: If you really look at how traffic flows and works you would find that traffic lights and intersections cause most of the congestion and delay in your journey. Cyclists do not account for much delay, and actually reduce the numbers of cars that need to get through each phase of the traffic lights.

          The reason lane changing in peak times is 'more dangerous' is because too many drivers are expecting to be able to drive at the speed limit, not at a suitable speed for the conditions. Impatient drivers would rather close the gap and keep you out of 'their lane' than allow the traffic to flow smoothly which is ultimately quicker. Then at the end of the day all the traffic races to the next traffic light and bunches up and waits again at the red.

          There are plenty of occasions that I can recall where my so called slow speed on a bicycle has been faster than car traffic on a section of road interrupted by traffic lights during peak hour. Sure, I'll be slower than cars when there is little traffic, but that means it is also easy to overtake a bicycle in a car quite safely and with little delay.

  • A big huge NAY from me, footpaths are for people on FOOT
    I would even make cyclists pay road tax, would be difficult but why should they inconvenience others and cost a lot with their special bike lanes, so they should contribute!!

    • +2

      All tax payers and rate payers (and renters) pay road tax, it comes from general revenue and rates.

    • Kempe, the exact same could be said for pedestrians, the disabled, the elderly etc.

      Edit: The difference with the bike rules is that ANYONE can use a bike.

  • I commute to work by bike about 2-3 times per week. I ride 12km each way, 1km is on roads the other 11km is on shared pathway. I have on average 1 incident every two weeks when on the road section.

    A week ago a cyclist in our area was killed by a 4WD blaming the sun. Police statement read "At this stage there is nothing that we're aware of that contributed directly to the accident from the driver's driving"

    I honestly feel like having a real good laugh and going for a drive with a blind fold on.

    • +1

      Do you have a link to that story? That sounds outrageous. It's stories like that that make my blood boil.

      • Yeah, i think its generally the RMS/RTA and police view about cyclists. Congestion is priority over someones life.

        http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclist-killed-after-being-struck-…

        • Brutal. It's these kinds of incidents that stop so many people from cycling, preventing the movement from gaining any real momentum.

          Do you have any sort of dashcam on your bike prinsenhof?

  • I used to cycle a lot when I was a teen, no helmet, on the footpath etc., and never had a single issue.

    I've only recently (October) started riding again, but this time with my 14 year old daughter. I've explained to her the rules about cycling, but I've also told her to cycle on the footpath on busy roads. I don't like encouraging her to break the law, but there are certainly many times where it's safer to use the footpath than the road.

    I was also recently looking at a bicycle map from the local authorities, which shows bike tracks, shared roads, etc. It also says to use the footpath on busy roads between the tracks.

    Now, as a driver… I am one of the rare drivers who doesn't mind waiting a minute for a cyclist, but when it's clearly safe to move over and let a car or two past (where it's not possible for the car to legally overtake you), please do so!

    …and as a bus driver that used to drive in the city and eastern suburbs, most of the cyclists are complete idiots.

  • I am one of the lycra clad middle aged MAMILS people seem to hate so much, I normally ride in large groups of similar folks on quiet backroads ferrying us around between coffee shops in the hills and outer suburbs. To try and improve fitness I ride part way to work a few days a week and as a result am exposed to inner city cycling (Melbourne CBD). I ride around 150-200 kms a week, almost always on a road bike (I own a couple of MTBs but never seem to ride them). I am not sure why anybody would want to ride on a footpath. As a pedestrian I don't appreciate the risk of being hit by somebody riding past, I have been caught by handlebars before. I particularly hate it when a cyclist on a footpath gets annoyed because pedestrians are blocking their way, that's right we, the legal users of the footpath are interrupting their illegal shortcut.

    As a cyclist I cant think of anything worse than having to dodge unpredictable foot traffic, dogs, kids and cars backing out of driveways. Riding on the footpath is lunacy and really only suitable for little kids toddling along at walking pace. In all honesty I cant stand bikepaths and lanes either, typically I am going much faster and I spend half my time having to dodge walkers, joggers and slower cyclists, my heart is in my mouth all of the time. I could ride slower but then what would be the point, I might as well drive my car to work. I know there are people for whom cycling is a cheap form of transport, for me it is a exercise and toddling along at 10 km/hr is not achieving anything. I would rather take my chances with the crazy motorists and car doors.

    I don't think adults should be riding bikes on the footpath. I have been skittled by cars a few times, including once on a zebra crossing! I understand how scary it can be as I have seen or been close to many cycling accidents including a death and a couple of other very serious stacks. I can see how people would be intimidated by riding on the road and fully understand their apprehensions however, your fear of riding on the road should not be the catalyst to put somebody else, an unsuspecting pedestrian in danger. If you can only bring yourself to use the footpath then leave the bike at home and walk. Riding on the road doesn't have to be scary, do some planning and find a quiet route. Avoid busy roads, particularly during peak times. Keep your witts about you, be courteous to other riders, stay to the left and ride within your abilities. The road rules work pretty well when everyone treats each other with respect.

    • I disagree. A cyclist should be able to choose the option of riding the footpath when suitable. Just because you want to zoom about in your Lycra doesn't mean everyone does. I'll happily cruise down to the shops in my normal clothing at under 20km/h, and slow down as necessary on the footpath. I'd love it to be legal.

      I do get on my road bike and go for long rides for exercise and agree than the footpath is not place for that, travelling at 30km/h and more suits using the roads. I also ride along a sharepath on my commute, it is fine to travel at 30 most of the time, but I am aware that slowing down occasionally is necessary and would much rather do that than have to contend with cars passing me at speed. My morning commute is normally uneventful, but the afternoons tend to get more kids and sightseers out so become more slow.

      At the end of the day though, mountain biking is a whole lot more fun and there is no traffic to worry about aside from the odd goanna or other critter.

    • +2

      Most cyclist are recreational, they DON'T own Road bikes.

      You're a fken idiot if you're riding a road bike on the footpath - excluding safety issues.

      We can cruise easily at jogging pace.

      Its not that hard for recreational cyclist and pedestrians to share space. Its only idiots who like to go fast that causes the biggest issues.

      You're delusional if you think you compare yourself against other bike riders.

      • I went to great lengths to say that not only do I NOT ride on the footpath but that I tried my hardest to avoid any paths (bikepaths, shared paths etc) and ride only on the road, amongst the cars for all of the reasons you mention. I totally agree with your assessment of the type of person that would ride a road bike on the footpath at 30 km/hr!

        You're delusional if you think you can stereotype 'Bike Riders'. I have 5 bikes, only 2 of which are road bikes, another is hybrid style flat bar with panniers etc and 2 MTBs (a Hardtail and a FS). I ride the roadies most of the time by choice but I would never ride any of them on the footpath for all of the reasons mentioned above. Am I a 'normal' bike rider when I choose a different bike and put on some baggy clothing? Also, way out in the burbs 50 Kms from the city where I live I've never seen any hipsters on fixies, commuters on fitness bikes or courier guys on bikes. Way out where I live you typically get roadies on road bikes, kids riding to school and other kids hanging around the skate park on BMX bikes. If you head out to the MTB trails you see MTB people. There's virtually zero bike infrastructure out where I live, best case is a line painted on the road! Are we all abnormal cyclists not to be included in comparisons out here? We do have footpaths though!

        • +1

          You did say 'I'm not sure why anyone would want to ride on the footpath' and 'I don't think adults should be riding on the footpath' which seem to fairly strongly suggest that everyone should be off them. You also went to efforts to describe yourself as one who zooms around in Lycra and did not seem to take into consideration that there are plenty of other that ride slowly, and want to legally ride footpaths rather than the roads.

        • @Euphemistic: I have taken into consideration that there are some that dont want to ride on the roads but I dont agree with riding on the footpath. I think it unnecessarily endangers pedestrians. I mentioned my cycling to illustrate that i understand the dangers of riding on the roads probably more than most. I also understand how difficult it would be to avoid hitting unpredictable pedestrians, kids, dogs etc.

          I work on St kilda rd in Melbourne, i often walk 2 blocks or so to get lunch or walk to the carpark. I regularly encounter riders on the footpath as St kilda Rd is a busy thoroughfare and I can see how some would be intimidated. Riders are everything from hipsters on fixies through to food delivery people on bikes. Almost always the riders are moving faster than walkers, even if only marginally. Walkers are unpredictable, i've nearly bumped into other walkers that stop to tie a shoelace etc. Kids run out from nowhere, somebody's dog stops to take a leak etc. The only way a rider gets through is to weave in and out of walkers. I've been bumped by handlebars and had riders startle me as they rode past. I've had food delivery bikes with pizzas onboard squeezing in and out of busy foot traffic on their way to a delivery in one of the local high-rise units. I'm a big ugly guy, i can take the odd handlebar nudge but what if it was a toddler that ran out. I think all of the folks i see riding on the footpath could do the same thing much more safely if they rode on the bright green bike lane painted on the road 15 feet to the side of the footpath. I cant see any valid reason why their fear of using the bike lane should lead to increasing my chances of being hit on the footpath.

        • @2ndeffort: Unfortunately the law was set for busy CBD areas. Where I live there are many km's of footpaths that have virtually no use, occasional pedestrians only. Why shouldn't cyclists be allowed on those, particularly on busy roads? Our local council has been putting up lots of signs on some of those footpaths to allow cyclists to use them as a share path, change the rules (in NSW) and those signs wont be necessary.

          I fully agree that cyclists shouldn't be riding in high foot traffic areas. I wouldn't, it's just easier to ride on the roads if there are too many pedestrians.

    • +1

      When you started your post I thought I was reading a reasonable and understanding person from all views. Instead, all i read the generalization of the Lycra rider. Sad. All you write about is the point of view of yourself. Sure you mention the safety of pedestrians, but footpath riders are not racing anywhere, they are avoiding tight dangerous roads, and respectful of the fact the footpath are not tracks designed for speed.

      • I'm just a sad selfish guy, what can I say! You dont think it is a bit selfish that somebody who is too scared to ride on the road would rather break the law and endanger the safety of random pedestrians? My preference to avoid footpaths, pedestrians and slow moving cyclists and instead use the roads where it is currently legal to ride is much more selfish i guess. Oh and there's the lycra thing too, rest assured I am a moving blight to the eyes to top off my selfishness!

        • So u want to avoid slow moving cyclist but u tell those who are starting out cycling to go on the road, where I assume u will avoid them by flying past probably no more than a few cm away given the Melb cbd has bike lanes around 50 cm wide. Hmm bit contradictory but it kinda sounds like the rest of what u r saying so unsurprised, yet again.

          I can show you plenty of roads in Melb where if u rode, unless u reach 60km every car would get annoyed and would risk over taking on the other side. That is what I define as safety risk.

          Not the chance of clipping a pedestrian at 10km.

          But hey like u said ur selfish so what do I expect.

        • @cloudy: Lots of assumptions about me when you've never met me. I don't want to keep arguing on the internet with strangers, enjoy your riding and lets agree to differ on the issue!

  • +1

    Cyclist here.

    They should just dedicate a small section (say 30cm) of the footpath, paint it green and make it for cyclists.

    Taking over a car lane to do the same thing is wasteful and dangerous.

    They can do it in Germany and Netherlands, why not here?

    What government IDIOT thought bikes + cars is safer than pedestrians + bikes?

    • In Germany and Holland, the bike lane is on the road, except maybe in the city, where cyclist ride quite slow, so slow in fact that they are only 1/2 on the bike, and use the bike like a scooter. 30cm are absolutely not enough for a bike, you would need 1m. Most of the footpath, with the plans growing onto it are hardly enough for 2 people to pass each other, let alone a bike zooming through at 20kmh,

      • 30cm for bikes? My road bike has 42cm bars, mountain bike is more like 70cm. Then you need to add clearances onto this.

        Our local area build 3m wide sharepaths, and are considering going to 4m for two way traffic.

      • Except maybe in the city? I would say definitely in cities, towns and in hinterland. Do you ride in Germany and Holland? I do and I would say DWH is more correct than you. Those countries think about the safety of riders and prefer to split bike paths away from car lanes and especially car parking lanes. They think too about the safety of pedestrians but pedestrians know its advisable to keep off that part of shared walking/bike lanes marked for bikes because bikes will go faster with a dedicated lane.

  • +1

    The road is not a safe place for anyone. The footpath is for pedestrian. Don't make your problem ( Danger riding on the road ) someone else his/her problem ( by riding on the footpath ). If it's too dangerous to ride on the road, don't ride or take the car.

    • +2

      Very good point.

      This years death toll statistics for nsw:
      Drivers: 165
      Motorcyclists: 58
      Passengers: 46
      Pedal cyclist: 3
      Pedestrians: 60

      You better not take your car. Best be on a bicycle

    • The problem with that is, you have ever more people taking the car coz we don't make enough effort to make our roads bike friendly and have more congestion, when instead we should try to design the system the opposite way.

  • +1

    The way you're defending riding on the footpath or the median strip makes it sound like it's okay to rob a bank to feed your starving family. Rules are rules, if you don't like them don't ride!

    • +2

      You will find that it is legal to ride on the footpath in several states. They have changed the rules in recent years for a reason, it is sensible.

      In driving around since this thread started I've been checking footpaths locally and found that in many kms there have been maybe a dozen pedestrians using them. Why shouldn't considerate bicycle riders use them? Sure, it doesn't make sense to ride the footpath around a busy area like a shopping district, or a school at pick up and drop off times, but otherwise footpaths are underused. Why should we go and build separate bike paths when there are perfectly good footpaths that could be used by cyclists that are not confident in using the roads?

      • you are absolutely right. pavements are definitely underused. hence bikers should be able to use them.

        • I rode to the shops this morning, most of the way on the footpath. 7 people died, there was a fire and even Batman turned up to kick some ….

          Or perhaps not and it was actually a safe, cheap and very pleasant way to go and get the milk for breakfast. I even passed a few pedestrians with no troubles.

      • In Germany generally the only place bikes can can't go is on the Autobahn (freeway). In student towns lots of bikes are sharing the busiest town squares and pickup points with pedestrians. There are very few problems as riders, riding slowly through gaps, can avoid the space of walkers.

  • +2

    I ride my mountain bike a fair amount around my area (beecroft area), if youre from my area you'll notice all that the neighbourhood is really quiet and no one actually walks on the foot path, or barely ever. So I ride on it for my safety.

    If there are people, I hop on to the road and jump back on to the footpath. Once I hit the busier area, I still stick to the footpath, no way in hell am I riding on pennant hills road with a mountain bike.

    • +2

      I’m with you on that one. I ride around Ryde to work and majority of the time people are very nice and courteous when I’m riding my MTB.
      And are even more welcoming when I’m forced to ride on the footpath. At times I would just get off and walk knowing it’s probably best and safe for everyone.
      Most road users are just as nice and give me plenty of room when passing. Yes, once in a while I encounter drivers that zooms pass too close but 90% of the time everyone just wants to go to work and return home to their families safely and can sacrifice a couple of seconds, if not a minute at most.

      When I ride my road bike in lycra on the weekend however, the situation changes. I stay off the footpaths and just ride on the road but still get all sorts of “greetings”. I think there’s this perception that lycra dressed cyclists on roadies have some sort of ego or just trying to nail that strava time. In my defence, I don’t use strava or any of those garmin gps time tracking gadgets. I ride to soak in the blessed Australian weather that I don’t get from living in Asia.

      Whilst I don’t blame cyclists in lycra, coz that’s just generalising, I also can’t ignore the fact that I get a lot more rude comments from my fellow cyclists in lycra.
      Occasionally there are really nice cyclists out there who will give me heaps of warning if they were over taking me, and sometimes giving me encouragement when tacking climbs.

      Having lived in SE Asia (Japan, Taiwan, China) and ridden bikes else where (Thailand, Vietnam etc), it’s simply a form of transportation for a lot of people. If you can accept the fact that you get all sorts of levels of riders on the road, and the road is for all to share, the reality is we will be a whole lot more healthier as a nation not just physically but mentally too.

      Safe commute back home everyone!

      • As a bike commuter (not a road bike, a hybrid/comfort), I do find the lycra "discrimination" being more that they are associated with what I'd classify as illegal weekend pack riding. I mean don't the rules regarding safety and proximity to other vehicles apply to bikes? Breaking distance etc. Seeing these peletons get into a stack up (which I have a few times) is a chain reaction, just like if a car is illegally tailgating and crashes into the car behind - the car behind is at fault in general. Maybe I'm wrong and it is somehow legal for bikes.

        I just ride as safe as I can. And I've never felt safe on a road bike - maneuverability is low, and the head forward position is not something I feel safe doing. I don't feel safe riding with other cyclists. And riding commuter bikes and shorts, I wouldn't fit in. Not want to…

  • doubtlessly yay. i ride for 10 kilometres a couple of times a week in a suburb 20 km away from melbourne cbd at afternoon times, i sometimes see no pedestrians on my way, literally. we are no danger at all for pedestrians.

  • Everybody considers himself a conscious rider/driver. So, I will not consider it.
    The thing is, if you have to go against the state's law once and nobody noticed you, it is okay. But in your case, you have to go to school everyday by cycle, so footpath is not the right path for you to ride a cycle. You should try some other options to reach school on time bro…

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