Neighbour Wants Me to Contribute on Fence Replacement/Relocation Cost

Multiplex on 09/11/2016 - 20:26
Last edited 09/11/2016 - 20:27

Short summary, Neighbour wants me to share the cost of replacing/relocating the side fence because the current fence is sitting on his property by 8cm from the boundary line.

Neighbour of 20 years demolished and built a new house 4 years ago. He wants to replace/relocate the fence and wants me to share the cost because of the following reason.
1.The fence is currently sitting on his property by 8cm from the boundary line according to his surveyor.
2.The fence is common property.
3.His side walk is too small after completing his new house. The small side walk makes it difficult to move large objection. He really should have thought about that before building!
4.I am going to throw in, he suggests I don’t need to consult solicitor because he works in the construction industry and “Trust Me”.

To anyone with a sound mind, paying to move 8cm is nuts. I can only think the real reason to move the fence is that he cannot get the certificate of occupancy because the distances between the house and fence did not meet the minimum 90cm. The “Trust Me” is alarm bell.

I read a lot of article on Dividing Fences Act 1991 from http://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/ afterward and I knows I am not required to share the cost because,
• There is an existing “sufficient” fence to divide the property. Sufficient being the key word
• Dividing fence is a fence separating the lands of different owners, whether it is actually on the common boundary or not (s.3).

Being a good person that I am and don’t want bad blood, I said he can move the fence by 8cm on the following condition (which I think is very, very reasonable).
• He only moves 8cm and I will be present and watch the work like a hawk because I don’t “trust” the move will be 8cm if I am not present.
• The neighbour pays all the cost.

That was 2 years ago and relationship with my neighbour have since patched up a bit. Fast forward to today, things just went south again.

A few weeks ago he came back to me and expressed he will be replacing/relocating the fence before Christmas and indicated he will pay the cost himself. This week he installed a $10,000 front fence and now must have a change of heart and wants me to share the cost of replacing/relocating the side fence again. The strange thing is the side fence relocation only cost $2,000 which is nothing when compared to the new front fence he just installed. Why doesn’t he just suck it up and pay all the cost and not waste both our time?

I said “No” pretty bluntly because I am tired of the same above bullshit reason he kept repeating and his insistence he is on the right and not listen. Is like talking to your typical tradies. He lost it and started swearing and he was disbelief I am not willing to contribute $1000.

With all honesty, if he had approached me and said I am not obligated to contribute but he will appreciate if I can help cover some cost, then I might just help him out. But instead, he just went tradies style and repeat the same 4 bullshit argument and trying to con me to pay.

So what now?
• Should I try and have make good relationship by contributing 25% (i.e. $500) even though I felt he is trying to con me?
• Or just say no. The disadvantage is things will get ugly.

Poll Options

  • 12
    Contribute $500, and have good relationship with neighbour even though I am NOT obligated to do so
  • 454
    Don't contribute
Home & Garden

Comments

  • prinsenhof on 11/11/2016 - 18:42
    +4

    I do wonder how they tell your fence is out and his other side isnt ? He might be trying to get 16cm worth of fence. Thats a massive storage area (probably several thousand eneloops worth). Next thing you know he'll be playing cricket in the space.

    Most forceful people just come that way, paying for the fence or making them happy will not change how they act in the future. By conceding anything now, your not going to improve anything. Just forget all the BS and ask yourself, do you want a new fence ? If not, then just leave it all alone and just say no, no argument needed, no debates, just no.

    Two way conversations can get heated, so here are some tips to prevent further discussion (from the trade industry)
    1. I'll look into it
    2. I'm working on it
    3. I'll look at it on friday (didnt say which friday)
    4. Say your surveyor says its not out by 8cm, then when asked say the report will be coming next week. The report will never come

    • darkchoc on 11/11/2016 - 18:49
      +1

      This.

      5- I'm getting advice on the matter and will get back to you.

  • am274 on 11/11/2016 - 18:46
    -5

    i would say offer something like $200-300. At least you two wont have to avoid eye contacts for rest of years you are neighbours. avoid that negativity if you feel its worth amount X.

    • [Deactivated] on 11/11/2016 - 19:09
      +5

      If the new fence is infringing in OPs land, paying for part of it may be considered consent.

      I'd draw a big fat 8cm line with a straight up NO.

  • Donaldhump on 11/11/2016 - 19:55
    +1

    he wants you to pay then he must give you the surveyor report.
    id assume given the fence is in good condition, if he wants to move then he should pony up. 8cm is jack sh**,

  • syousef on 11/11/2016 - 19:57

    Do the minimum you are legally obliged to do.

    • darkchoc on 12/11/2016 - 00:19

      Which is absolutely nothing. OP is happy with the current fence. The legal argumemt as a layman, as far as you know and from 20 years, as far you know, the fence is the boundary. You have no reason to doubt the fence line at all.

      The burden of proof is on his neighbour as he wants change. A single survey report is not enough.

  • frostman on 11/11/2016 - 21:33

    I love how you started off with:

    Short summary

    I'd like to see the long version

    • Multiplex on 11/11/2016 - 22:32
      +1

      The long version starts from the second line. I should have pointed that out

  • gcdollar on 11/11/2016 - 21:53
    -5

    Ask yourself: what matters more to you? I would give him $500 as "donation" and tell him that here's the money but you don't appreciate the way he's been doing.

    On the other hand, Maybe he's having some difficulties that he needs your help but are too proud to admit. How's his character in general? Since you have been neighbors for a long time, you should be able to tell if he is trying to con you or not.

    • darkchoc on 12/11/2016 - 00:16
      +2

      Yes, be polite, helpful, neighbourly. Hello him with moving stuff, his kids, keep the street clean etc.

      No, do not give any money, give any land.

      You can be nice and a good neighbour. But you can still be an assertive and no nonsense person when someone is taking something from you.

  • Multiplex on 11/11/2016 - 23:10
    +11

    Thanks everyone for the advice and I am glad we are all on the same page. After measuring the boundary line with a string, I now believe the fence is only 5cm out of place because the boundary line should just be a line (1mm) so 5cm should be smack bang in the middle. 8cm will have the whole fence sit on my property.

    Also, it just occurred to me that I may end up liable for additional cost should I agree to share cost in the first place. More reason for me to say "No"

    • darkchoc on 12/11/2016 - 00:12
      +15

      When speaking with the neighbour, i would stick with that you are happy with the current fence. The location is correct as far as you know. Do not entertain any discussion and do not ever mention 5cm.

      Your position is: As far as you are concerned, the fence is the line and there is nothing that proves otherwise. You've taken advice (deliberately ambiguous) not to accept any movement of fence or pay any costs at all.

      If your neighbour pushes you.. Politely state your hands are tied and you can only go by the advice you have received. Wish him the best and say that you wish that there was more you could do. But in this circumstance, yo do not agree to the changes or any costs ;)

    • darkchoc on 12/11/2016 - 00:24
      +1

      The other thing to note is, is your other boundary line out by 5cm? Are you measuring in a straight line? What is the margin is error? What about further along the boundary? What if the angle is off and you are losing land elsewhere?

      You cannot reasonably know the answer.

      I mean, you can have a rough idea.

    • kasp on 12/11/2016 - 06:51
      +5

      Just look at it this way your neighbour is trying to bully you and rip you off.

      Think about it what would any reasonable and normal person would do in that situation. They would come with surveyor report in hand saying hey look the property is 8cm out of whack and we need to adjust the fence. Regardless of offers to pay or whatever that is what would happen if it was out of whack, instead it's Trust me so basically he doesn't have squat and is advocating you don't talk to anyone who could help what the correct course of action is which is classic way of ripping people off.

      Even when you agreed to basically give up some of your land he got greedy and wanted you to pay for half and then tried to rip you off further by not providing quotes and inflating the cost.

      The guys a (profanity) and just shut him down now and say you aren't doing anything until you see the survey report. You are in the right and he is trying to steal your land and make you pay for it. Even if the report does say that 8cm I wouldn't agree to anything.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2016 - 08:37
    +5

    Great post. All ideas above have nailed the solution. It would appear that your painful neighbour has no boundaries so I also suggest you remain defensive. It will pale into insignificance over time.

    • fruit on 12/11/2016 - 20:40
      +2

      Are you 8 years old and make stuff up on the Internet?

      • StewBalls on 13/11/2016 - 09:25
        +6

        Ease up, 8cm is a big deal when you're 8yo… ;)

        • [Deactivated] on 15/11/2016 - 10:58

          Principle. I was actually making a point. Even if it is 8cm it is MINE. I will not give it away to anyone. I will stick to my point. If your solicitor does not do his due diligence and you are at a loss down the track they must make it right.

          Go on, go crazy with your negs now!!!

        • StewBalls on 16/11/2016 - 22:38

          @invalidwithoutphoto:

          Even if it is 8cm it is MINE.

          Yes, it's yours and you can play with it as much as you like… ;)

    • tryagain on 15/11/2016 - 08:02
      +1

      I think we may have found the neighbour.

  • bravotwo on 12/11/2016 - 13:43
    +2

    Whoops, I accidentally click contribute instead of no. Don't do it!

  • bensl on 12/11/2016 - 13:51
    +1

    So much advice given here. So who is actually a licensed land surveyor?

    • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2016 - 14:00

      Licensed land surveyor has got nothing to do with this dispute. A lawyer is more appropriate. But better still, common sense.

      • StewBalls on 12/11/2016 - 17:01

        All you'll get on here is bush lawyers… ;)

      • bensl on 12/11/2016 - 19:14

        No. a solicitor only acts on the information given to them by a licensed surveyor. A licensed surveyor has to know the appropriate sections of the acts that are applicable to the situation and make a judgement.

  • stemcell on 12/11/2016 - 14:08

    You are all putting too much thought into this, tell him to move original fence 5cm your way. If he wants a new fence or 8cm just refuse, he can always move.

  • tehsnrub on 12/11/2016 - 14:45

    What value does the fence add to your property? Ignoring how much you beleive the guy to be a dick, does it benefit you in any way and does the cost justify it? You could ask to pay it off over a year.

    I'm looking at doing a similar thing but with asbestos fencing and poorer neighbours. I don't expect them to contribute half but I'd appreciate an attempt to either pay partially or help with the work. I'm doing it because it adds value, looks nicer, easier to add gating and some people avoid property with asbestos.

    I guess my advice is to be pragmatic. 😂

  • frondono on 12/11/2016 - 15:32

    Even if the fence is 8cm I think you might find that is perfectly ok and within tolerance. Contact your state government department that deals with land.

  • AlienC on 12/11/2016 - 15:56
    +1

    8cm = 3.15 inches

    Haha lol I just thought that that would be a funny little thing to share

    • StewBalls on 12/11/2016 - 17:01
      +2

      That's what she said…

  • fruit on 12/11/2016 - 20:32
    +5

    he suggests I don’t need to consult solicitor because he works in the construction industry and “Trust Me”.

    LOL BUILDERS ARE DODGY

  • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2016 - 21:26

    Dont contribute and state that you must get your own survey done beforw works starts to confirm his resaults.

  • botts7 on 12/11/2016 - 22:29

    Not sure what state you are in but i found this info in relation to land surveying tolerance for vic
    Which states 10mm

    http://www.dsparchitects.com.au/uncategorized/land-survey/

    And some interesting info here under heading
    Boundary disputes

    http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/home/justice+system/laws+and+r…

    • Seiko on 13/11/2016 - 19:27

      The neighbour is claiming the fence is 8cm (80mm) out.

  • sillyhead on 13/11/2016 - 09:08
    +2

    Usually in these cases the opposite boundary will be out by the same amount. I wonder whether he's giving those neighbors their 8cm back. Sounds like he wants a more modern fence for a 50 percent discount. Tell him to get the materials from masters and then tell him that advice is as good as money.

    • LlamaLlamaLamp on 15/11/2016 - 12:12

      Twist: he's trying to pull the same thing with the other neighbours

  • axlfan on 13/11/2016 - 10:08

    Ask him to go suck an egg. this is utter bs.

    p.s : watch your back.

  • Cacao on 13/11/2016 - 11:26

    http://spatialservices.finance.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_…

    Try to look for a drill hole or alignment pin in the kerb and gutter, they usually have these marks to define cadastral boundaries.

    You may ask the local Council for works-as-executed plans for the subdivision, there would be survey reference marks on these plans that may be useful to establish cadastral boundary.
    Or if you neighbours had a DA approved for his new house by Council he must have submitted a survey plan as part of the package, you can request those plans from Council under GIPA Act 2009.

  • Plug on 13/11/2016 - 14:42
    -7

    The fence should be dead on the correct line for everybody's benefit. I'd pay half if it were me but I'd want to make sure it was spot-bollock on.

    • No ONE on 13/11/2016 - 15:51
      +4

      Here comes the neighbour

  • onlyletters on 13/11/2016 - 16:49

    If you don't have it in writing to say that he will pay all the cost then he can take you to small claims court and get half of the invoiced from you.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/11/2016 - 17:23

      Burden of proof is on the person whose signature is in the quote.

      • onlyletters on 13/11/2016 - 21:30
        +1

        Doesn't matter. Fence is common and shared cost.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/11/2016 - 21:41

          My lawyers beg to differ. It's common and shared cost if both parties agree to it. All cost blow-outs will be proportionately divided.

          A pre existing structure requires consent of both parties to be electively removed. If a replacement is required, an agreement of the distribution of cost needs to happen before removal. If not, then it is usually split 50-50. Even then, both parties need to agree on total cost before contracting a tradesman.

          No party can just remove the fence without permission, build a new one to their fancy and choice of builder, then pass on 50% of costs.

  • Kraeze on 13/11/2016 - 19:08
    +1

    Look at it this way. Your a nice guy and he's a nice guy. You want to be a good neighbour and so does he.
    The existing fence is sufficient and by definition does not require replacing as it has been servings it's purpose for years.
    Since he is providing a reason that does not justify the movement of the fence, he is being deceitful in his reasoning. Therefore this implies that he is not a good neighbour which contradicts the earlier statement.
    Since your neighbour cannot be a good neighbour and deceitful at the same time, it only stands to reason that he is not acting in the good interest of the neighbourhood.
    Hence your neighbourly obligation is null and void.

  • driver33b on 13/11/2016 - 19:37

    Can OP show us some pictures of the problematic fence?

  • T1OOO on 13/11/2016 - 19:52

    Is it a square block? It might be slanting and not straight. Which measurement is if by 5cm front or back? Or both. Moving it for 5cm is pointless.

    Having said that. You are only required to provide a boundary fence if he wants something dance he has to pay for it.

  • centrelink on 14/11/2016 - 02:33

    My friend wanted his neighbours to share cost of the fence, they said no so he build a fence within his boundaries that was even higher than his fence…. The neighbour decided to pay to share the fence… Lol

  • FittyFitty on 14/11/2016 - 03:11
    +1

    Tell him that you've had a surveyor out, your lot width is spot on and that he needs to move the fence on the other side of his house…

    (BTW, he would have known this before he started building.)

  • susu abis on 14/11/2016 - 03:38

    tell your neighbor to stop being a jerk and leave you alone about the fence.

    So many neighbor relationships are ruined because of dispute over fencing

    • RocketSwitch on 14/11/2016 - 09:50

      Shows the true colour of humanity.

  • AustriaBargain on 14/11/2016 - 07:29

    I'd have him make sure your side of the fence is beautiful, like Donald Trump's wall, so it actually adds at least 2k value to your home for the 2k he's asking. The wall should be strong and sturdy and be just as good in 10 years time, not sagging and all dented and in need of replacing again.

  • Austaurean on 14/11/2016 - 08:18

    I haven't read all comments so this may have been suggested, but..
    If he doesn't want to prove the 8cm is his then perhaps… you could SELL him the 8cm by X metre's of fence line, that way you get some money for it and he gets his minimum clearance (if that's an actual issue), and obviously if costs don't outway selling the strip.
    Also, does the 8cm really matter on your block of land, ie would you really feel the loss in the size of your block of land?
    There are other +/- that im not going to cover, but its a thought. i.e.: land rates, selling and total size of block etc.
    I think selling of land from a fencing issue was also covered a little in a previous OZB fencing post.

  • joelmuzz on 14/11/2016 - 11:51

    It is on him to prove the existing fence justifies replacement/relocation and send you the bill or take it to court as per the proper fencing rules.
    Ignore any verbal discussion, there are processes to handle this issue in writing and since he is the one instigating it he has to put all the work and survey cost in and present it to you.

    Requiring him to put his proof and demands in writing will also clarify exactly what quality of survey he has and whether he is trying to bluff you with lies.
    If documentation is lacking then just write a letter back asking for the extra documentation to be provided.

    You also only have to pay half (potentially less if he wants the good pretty side) for a basic wood fence in most councils.
    So thats the quote he has to provide, the difference to a more expensive fence is his problem. Though if you both want a Colorbond fence or something thinner and nicer than it is fair to cover your half.

  • mochariffic on 14/11/2016 - 13:39

    Lawyer up

  • IMFrugl on 14/11/2016 - 14:57
    +2

    Build a perpendicular fence + gate to the original fence to keep your soon to be aquired bull mastiff dog or soon to be born child in. The original fence then can't be shifted off it's original position. Tell him you don't have enough money for his fence because you just had to spend on some 'urgent renovations' i.e. the new perpendicular fence. Plead ignorance to not remembering about the 8cm or not understanding what is 8cm. Act confused and ask for his survey plan. If the 8cm is your land, it should not be given up as it will now mess up your legal boundaries.

  • Whomastadon on 15/11/2016 - 09:46
    +1

    Don't pay anything.

    Also take photos of the fence now as he might go damage it on purpose when you're not home and be like " well the current fence is insufficient and you're obligated to pay half "

    Id get in contact with council / insurance ( not sure who " and let them the situation because if it was me and I really wanted a new fence I would destroy the old one and blame it on a storm or whatever. Let them know that the fence as of now is in good condition.

  • cushydeskjob on 15/11/2016 - 10:42

    I think you need to keep negotiating. Recommence with an offer to pay for 1mm and hand over a cheque for $12.50.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/11/2016 - 10:58
    +1

    Principle. I was actually making a point. Even if it is 8cm it is MINE. I will not give it away to anyone. I will stick to my point. If your solicitor does not do his due diligence and you are at a loss down the track they must make it right.

    edit: i just realised even 8cm over a 50 m block of land ends up being about 4 meters square (i think im no mathematician), so just ask him to pay you for the land and leave the boundary)

    Go on, go crazy with your negs now!!!

  • Brucet on 19/11/2016 - 17:31

    Just tell them . I have NO MONEY .

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