Did You Pay for Public Transport (NSW) ?

OzBestDeal on 15/12/2016 - 11:45
Last edited 15/12/2016 - 11:47

On my daily bus trip to and from work, I saw about 30% of passengers didn't even tap on/off, and the bus driver doesn't seems to bother about it.
In my 5 years+ commuting, I've never seen any inspector checking tickets too.
To my surprise it's not just certain minority group of people getting free ride, it's working class people on suits too.

When Transport Minister announce there will be no more free Opal trips, I'm think they addressing wrong problem.
Opal runner are not the problem.. These free riders are…
Opal runners still pay their due, contributing income to public transports, however these free riders pay nil, and leave fare payers to pick up the tab.

Am I the only one that feel stupid for paying on public transport?

Poll Options

  • 78
    Yes I pay the correct fare as it's the right thing to do
  • 14
    Yes I pay the correct fare because the risk of getting caught is not worth it
  • 4
    I pay concession fare even though I'm not entitled to it. It's OzBargain way!
  • 0
    I didn't pay the correct fare because I can't afford it
  • 3
    Hell NO!! Why paying for a fare, anything "public" should be free right?
Financial

Comments

  • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 11:53
    +2

    You know that if you don't tap off, you will get charged a default fare by the system later, and also that trip doesn't count towards the 8 trips? Some people don't tap off because there is no penalty to them or money lost by the system, e.g. seniors who have reached their $2.50 cap for the day, so the fare is zero, and who know that they will never reach the 8 trips in the week.

    • OzBestDeal on 15/12/2016 - 11:55

      It's not about people that forgot to tap off/on…
      It's more of people that trying to get free ride

      • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 11:58

        But they don't get a free ride, that's what I'm explaining. Their Opal account gets charged.

        • onetwothreefour on 15/12/2016 - 11:59
          +3

          Not if they don't tap on.

        • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 12:01

          @onetwothree: That's a different issue, the driver is supposed to enforce that.

        • OzBestDeal on 15/12/2016 - 12:02
          +3

          This probably true for some people, but what I saw are people that doesn't even tap on.
          They just walk straight into the bus like they entitled for a free ride.

        • joshykins on 15/12/2016 - 12:02
          +2

          They tap nothing. so no fare.

        • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 12:03

          @cimot: Well then you should ask the driver to enforce it, or wait for karma in the form of inspectors. If there aren't enough of those write a letter to your MP asking for more inspectors. Ranting here isn't going to change those people.

        • onetwothreefour on 15/12/2016 - 12:22
          +1

          @greenpossum: it doesn't sound like he's ranting and expecting a change to happen because of this post, he's just asking a question.

        • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 12:29
          -1

          @onetwothree: If there is no reasonable expectation that anything will change due to the post, even if a poll is attached (there needs to be an option for The Trip is Free for Me So No Point Tapping Off), then it's a disguised rant.

        • onetwothreefour on 15/12/2016 - 12:42

          @greenpossum: then there would also need to be an option for the trip is free for me but I tap off anyway. Where do the options stop?

        • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 12:48
          -1

          @onetwothree: I'm just pointing out that the OP hasn't considered all the possibilities and the poll is part of the rant, see last option.

        • virhlpool on 17/12/2016 - 16:58

          @greenpossum:

          That's a different issue, the driver is supposed to enforce that.

          That's the issue OP is complaining about.

        • retiredfeline on 17/12/2016 - 17:04

          @virhlpool: He included tap off which isn't an issue. It's really a social media rant instead of doing something.

        • virhlpool on 17/12/2016 - 17:40

          @greenpossum: All that can be done is make drivers responsible for ensuring that passengers tap on or pay money, especially in late night services where a lot of people (many drunk ones) get by without paying due to drivers being lenient.

        • retiredfeline on 17/12/2016 - 17:59

          @virhlpool: There are lots of things that could be done, including first establishing whether what the scale of the problem is, and if so what countermeasures are considered. I don't suppose OP thought to write to the transport minister to ask for figures about how much estimated revenue is lost from free riders. But it's always much easier to post and then get a lot of ooh, how terrible, tut tut, naughty naughty, follow-ups, and nothing really happens.

    • Savas on 15/12/2016 - 18:12

      about 30% of passengers didn't even tap on/off,

      I agree, of the 30% how many don't tap on?

  • HardQuiz on 15/12/2016 - 11:53

    In search of Utopia

  • onetwothreefour on 15/12/2016 - 12:00
    +1

    I reach the weekly cap by Thursday just by my train trips so it wouldn't make a difference to me if I didn't tap on on the bus.

    • abb on 15/12/2016 - 15:18

      Unless you were checked by an inspector…

    • Love a bargain on 15/12/2016 - 15:19

      You could still get fined if you don't tap on after reaching the daily/ weekly cap.

      • peterpeterpumpkin on 15/12/2016 - 15:26

        What about on a Sunday?

        • Love a bargain on 15/12/2016 - 15:28

          Same deal.

          They can fine you if you haven't tapped on, no matter whether you'll have to pay for the trip or not.

          All the care is whether their little reader (or smartphone) says you've tapped on.

        • peterpeterpumpkin on 15/12/2016 - 15:31
          +1

          @Love a bargain: Interesting. It seems like a victimless crime (except you can't be tracked and the travel statistics are affected).

        • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 15:37

          @peterpeterpumpkin: It just a simple rule, everybody on the system has to be tapped on. Except when the reader is busted. No point complicating the rule with "except if they would be paying nothing", it's not a big deal to tap on.

        • peterpeterpumpkin on 15/12/2016 - 15:55

          @greenpossum: I understand the reasoning (I can just imagine the arguments between an aggressive or drunk person and the bus driver over this triviality). I'm just wondering if the fine (whatever it is) is befitting the crime for a person who forgets to tap on their 8th train trip on a Sunday.

          When Opal started I was adamantly told by the Opal booth lady to tap off on Sundays as well. It helps to maintain the tapping off reflex I guess. And in case I think it's Sunday when it's actually Wednesday.

        • retiredfeline on 15/12/2016 - 16:03

          @peterpeterpumpkin: Don't forget there may also be a legal aspect to this. Tapping on is implicitly accepting the terms of transport. If you are not tapped on and something adverse happens during the trip…

      • onetwothreefour on 15/12/2016 - 15:27

        Just to clarify, I do tap on and off every time, was trying to say there would be no point in me trying to avoid paying as it makes no difference to the amount I pay each week.

  • battler on 15/12/2016 - 12:03
    +1

    30% is a big ratio. I wouldn't have been surprised at 5%, but I've never witnessed 30%.
    What route number?

    • OzBestDeal on 15/12/2016 - 12:05

      One of the eastern suburb line.
      5 years ago, probably about 5-10% people are not paying.
      It's getting worse and worse especially during peak hours.

      • battler on 15/12/2016 - 12:09

        perhaps a tip-off to NSW Transport is required, and perhaps you'll see a blitz of inspectors.

        • OzBestDeal on 15/12/2016 - 12:12

          Yeah.. bus riders are hard to get inspected.
          There are heaps more stops and heaps more buses on the roads compared to train.
          From inspector perspective, they're getting much better inspector:rider ratio on train stations. More value for money.

        • Love a bargain on 15/12/2016 - 15:22

          There seems to be a lot of transport inspectors where I am. They wait at the bus stop. In the past, they only check the people who get off at that stop. Nowadays, they'd get on the bus and check everyone who's on the bus too. (In the mean time, the bus is not going anyway so it's bloody annoying when you're already running late.)

          And they're like permanent fixture outside the gates of train stations too (not that I mind them).

  • [Deactivated] on 15/12/2016 - 12:08

    it pisses me off seeing train fare evaders as I work in North Syd and the fare from my station to north syd is 6.64 one way =/

    • ronnknee on 15/12/2016 - 20:56
      +1

      Because they're getting away with it?

  • Diji1 on 15/12/2016 - 12:55
    +6

    and leave fare payers to pick up the tab

    Do you get enraged by the top 500 businesses by market cap in Australia paying an average of under 2% tax or is it just the petty, insignificant things like bus fares?

    • scrimshaw on 15/12/2016 - 14:08
      +1

      I get enraged by people eating grapes at the grocery store without paying for it.

      I mean, imagine the dozens of dollars of lost revenue due to these thieves. Dozens!

  • [Deactivated] on 15/12/2016 - 12:58
    +3

    I think most bus drivers are too scared to challenge people who don't pay for their bus fare. When I was younger, I always travelled everywhere on the smallest distance travelten, regardless of where I was going. Can't do that with the Opal cards tho.

  • rickb on 15/12/2016 - 13:20

    I hail from Victoria and catch all modes of public transport - Bus, Tram and Train. My observations are that most people tap on (no need to tap off on buses or trams). Years of ticket inspectors and heavy fines have played a part. Bus drivers sometimes confront the known usual suspects - a small minority of high school students who catch the bus - only to be threatened with violent repercussions if they are prevented from getting on.

    • amkssg on 15/12/2016 - 14:27

      You also need to remember that PTC Officers in Victoria have lots of authority, unlike Ticket Inspectors in other states.
      Also, I think Victoria is the only state that uses Plain-Clothed Inspectors, and does "surprise" inspections between stops.

  • bobbified on 15/12/2016 - 14:32

    Could it be that they've already got weekly, monthly or yearly ticket and they're too lazy to tap on and off?

    • Love a bargain on 15/12/2016 - 15:23
      +1

      There is no weekly/ monthly/ yearly ticket under the new Opal-based system.

      There's daily or weekly cap though.

  • Love a bargain on 15/12/2016 - 15:25
    +1

    I've seen far too many young people jumping the gates at train stations and station staff do nothing about it.

  • OzBestDeal on 15/12/2016 - 15:30

    I've seen some news that bus driver get assaulted because they asked for tickets.
    They probably follow the trend on Woolies staff to let offender go rather than confront them.

    • scrimshaw on 15/12/2016 - 17:11

      the bus driver's job description doesn't mention revenue protection. He/she just drives the bus.

      http://pastebin.com/JWQBa7S1

      The most they can do is politely ask you to tap your Opal card and if not, ask you to leave in a civil manner, but they cannot forcefully eject you from the bus or issue you a on-the-spot fine.

  • trustnoone on 15/12/2016 - 16:40

    I wonder if its that easy to police though? I see people used to do it all the time in Adelaide trains (with inspectors), they basically tell the inspector to eff off and they argue very loudly until they get off the next stop.

    One thing I learnt from it is when the inspector asks for your ticket and you don't have one, the easiest way to avoid a fine is tell them to eff off, and be ready to (look like you'll) punch a guy until next stop where you jump off to the next train. Person usually backs down. Depressing though as usually the ones who legitimately accidentally forget gets penalized completely (I'm assuming at a higher cost to recuperate the other dodgers) since they talked nice enough and actually did give them their address slash ID information. Don't know if I could ever be the type to try to avoid something like that by swearing.

    I know trains in Sydney they check a lot, Redfern they'd always check just as you walk in and I'd see someone getting pinged for it, occasionally I'd see it in other stations as well.

    Busses are usually a single person so I feel not much you can do, I have once had the bus stop at a stop, where 5 inspectors literally went through checking everyones tickets. I did wonder why they needed 5 people for 1 bus but it might've been for safety? I'm guessing the price to pay for these people are probably quite high as well, I know someone who used to do it for the trains and he'd say its a "difficult job" because it gets fair unsafe. Especially when the ticket dodgers /can/ be pretty full on.

    I'd rather just pay the normal fair though lol.

    • scrimshaw on 15/12/2016 - 17:21

      Where I live in Western sydney where the % of hooligans are higher, I see police officers much more frequently. They usually patrol in groups of 2-3 delivering justice where it's needed, usually on platforms but not on trains themselves. They hover around the ticket gates, sometimes just chatting among themselves or with station staff.

      Places like Lidcombe and Strathfield for e.g you might see them during special events like footy games or concerts, but on average I seem them once a week.

  • lainey13 on 15/12/2016 - 19:27

    What about 'I pay the right fare because I'm scared of inspectors harassing me'? (I'm in VIC btw)

    • amkssg on 16/12/2016 - 00:54

      You also need to remember that PTC Officers in Victoria have lots of authority, unlike Ticket Inspectors in other states.
      Also, I think Victoria is the only state that uses Plain-Clothed Inspectors, and does "surprise" inspections between stops.

      I don't know if they still do it, but there used to be a controversy about whether or not Ticket Inspectors can legally pin you down if you resist arrest.

  • ronnknee on 15/12/2016 - 20:50
    +2

    The correct title should be "Do You Pay for Public Transport (NSW)?**

  • r2160 on 16/12/2016 - 08:37

    They fail to include the gates failing. the number of times I have tried to tap on and the system just doesnt work is impressive in itself.
    I have tried to tap on before and it just doesnt let me. It continues to say that i cannot. I am not going to beg the gate to take my money.
    I have also tapped on before, the gate opens, then a transit officer checks my opal and says I didnt. I then show him the backpack and bike and they insinuate that I raced through behind somebody else. I keep asking him how???

  • ericmclee on 16/12/2016 - 10:12

    It would be interesting to see how much revenue has skyrocketed changed since the Opal discounts were implemented in September.

  • altomic on 16/12/2016 - 10:29

    Didn't even pay once.

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