I rear ended another driver and his insurance company is demanding $5500, please help

Lflibbidyflop on 07/01/2017 - 15:03
Last edited 09/01/2017 - 14:42

Wanting general advise as this is my first car accident. Yes, I've learnt my lesson and now will have insurance for the rest of my life while driving, please don't hate ):

I got a letter of demand today from NRMA speaking on behalf of 2nd car who claims $5500 because I rear ended him about two months ago. The scenario happened on a highway with multiple traffic lights in qld:

  • First car abruptly stopped at a traffic light which already had a line of cars
  • Second car braked, then let go, and braked to a complete stop, did not rear end the first car
  • Third car (me) braked, however did not brake hard enough to come to a complete stop and rear-ended the second car

Facts:
* At the time I was uninsured
* Police statement was not made at the time of incident
* Second car was a red P plater, student
* Second car was insured under his mum's name
* No witnesses (except the first car, of which I have no contact details of)
* Exchanged details, took some (poor quality) photos with second car
* Attempted to contact the second car 100 times and they ignored my messages and calls prior to receiving letter of demand

The PAV of car was stated $6000 for a 2007 Ford Fiesta 3dr, Salvage value $1000, and the chassis of both passenger and driver sides were damaged, stated from motor vehicle assessment. He decided to write-off the car and I was charged for subsequent tow & car hire for 14 days.

Attached are photos from the incident:
* My car (http://tinyurl.com/jn4hfts)
* His car (http://tinyurl.com/zdexr9m, http://tinyurl.com/j4gux4u, http://tinyurl.com/zyxacux)

What's the best plan to undergo negotiations? Personally, I don't believe his damages were severe enough for a write-off and he wanted a new car. Advice would be highly appreciated as a first time it is highly mentally exhausting; and as a poor university student, this will take a huge chunk out of my existing little savings ):

Automotive

closed Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2017 - 08:29
    +1

    Start looking for a second job.
    Stock up on 2 minute noodles.
    You done messed up flibbidyflop

  • Steve-o on 10/01/2017 - 09:01
    +3

    Dude you've already been hammered left and right but I've got to call you out on this:

    "as a poor university student, this will take a huge chunk out of my existing little savings ):"

    This means that you have over $5500 in savings? By saying huge chunk I'm assuming you probably have around $7000. That is NOT a poor uni student. You screwed up and are no longer entitled to that money.

    A poor uni student firstly doesn't even have a car and most certainly doesn't have that kind of money tucked away.

    Pay up and tell your kids of your mistake.

  • pantsparty on 10/01/2017 - 09:05

    No insurance = you are screwed. This will be an expensive lesson for you to learn.

  • bdl on 10/01/2017 - 10:08

    +1 for posting photos on Facebook :)

  • tap on 10/01/2017 - 10:23

    $5/fortnight payment plan.

  • joelmuzz on 10/01/2017 - 10:48

    Negotiation is possible.
    Say you were never involved in the quotations or given the chance to negotiate to buy the wreck from the owner in pre accident conditions value and feel that the damage has been inflated and is unjustified.
    A percentage will often fall off the bill.
    You will still owe $4k+, but may save something.
    Insurance companies will do payment plans, check interest vs a bank loan or just emptying savings.

  • exxonsign on 10/01/2017 - 11:27
    -4

    C'mon Ozbargainers, why so sanctimonious?

    The OP made a mistake. It was an accident. That's why they are called accidents. How do the finger waving, tutt-tutting, holier-than-thou, judgmental recriminations help anyone?

    The VERY FIRST line shows the lesson has been learned. It's a shame to see the predictable pile-on of smugness.
    Why? Does it make people feel better to say "You should have had insurance"?

    • schwinn on 10/01/2017 - 12:08
      +4

      You joined the party late. Have a look at the 'revisions' tab under his heading.

      When OP first posted, he tried to mask this as a 3 car accident, somehow the car right in front stopped, causing the 2 behind (including him) to have to emergency brake. OZB'ers were sharp and picked up right away that this was a 2 car incident not 3.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2017 - 12:51
    +2

    i have been rear ended. my car has been hit while parked in westfield. i also have hit a truck who was in the wrong and at fault.

    having had these experiences, i wouldnt drive without insurance or at least TPI if my car is a dodgy cheapo steel on wheels.

    also, i pay comprehensive for the convenience. with nrma i can choose who to use to repair. and also party not at fault actually have the right to stay mobile with a hire car from compasscarhire or something
    while the car is repaired.

    in short, unfortunately for the OP your options are to pay in full, negotiate payment plan or declare bankcruptcy (will severely affect your financial future though).

  • bobbified on 10/01/2017 - 12:58
    +1

    Given the situation you've described, you're up for the damage bill. There's no real arguing to get out of this one.

    HOWEVER, the insurance company will send you a bill as they already have - In the cases I've seen, they have all been willing to accept a lower amount to settle the matter. It can be an amount that is substantially lower than what they asked for originally.

    It'll be up to you to negotiate with the insurance company or the debt collection agency that the amount is eventually passed onto if it's not paid.

  • cainen on 10/01/2017 - 12:59
    +2

    When I first was going out with my Mrs a couple of years ago she rear ended someone without having insurance. She got a request from NRMA to pay $3600. I sent a bit of a sob story to them via email and offered them $2k which they accepted. So it is possible to negotiate though me being a long term NRMA customer may have had something to do with it.

    Unfortunately these things are just expensive life lessons.

  • OzBrogains on 10/01/2017 - 13:03
    +3

    Be happy you didn't rear end a Rolls Royce.

    • xuqi on 12/01/2017 - 13:15

      Someone rear-ended an old RR SSII of mine. Luckily they had insurance! :)

      Mind you it didn't take much to repair as they're built like Bricks.

  • Davo1111 on 10/01/2017 - 13:23

    Contact the insurance company and ask for a payment plan.

    Contact your parents, and ask for a personal loan.

    Sell all your stuff to pay the above debts.

  • Brouw3r on 10/01/2017 - 13:26
    +4

    Look at the bright side, the cost is only $5300 since you saved by not getting third party insurance.

  • omgitzrick on 10/01/2017 - 13:29

    Expensive lesson but it could have been worse. Get insurance.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2017 - 13:52

    http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/3ou5lc

  • Marcsie on 10/01/2017 - 13:55

    You got what you "NOT" paid for, "CAR INSURANCE "
    Sorry, No sympathy from me !

  • pebee47 on 10/01/2017 - 14:24
    +6

    Hi Flibbidy,,,
    I feel for you. Its a harsh entry into the real world of Motorised Metal Monsters.
    "First car abruptly stopped at a traffic light which already had a line of cars."
    With all due respect, when you were approaching, why did you not see the red light or the line of stopped cars
    "Second car braked, then let go, and braked to a complete stop, did not rear end the first car". P-plater with little experience and poor judgement of braking distances required for different conditions: Your own experience should have alerted you to the propensity of Red P-platers to suddenly and aggressively brake (and/or accelerate, change lanes etc).
    "Third car (me) braked, however did not brake hard enough to come to a complete stop and rear-ended the second car." Day-dreaming? Tired? Chemically affected? Doesn't matter; you were driving too fast for the road conditions at that time and place.
    As a motorbike rider I find I have to "drive for every other vehicle"; constantly assessing the road, the behaviour of ALL others, their potential to alter their situation (Lane, speed, etc) with or without signalling, as well as traffic conditions ahead and on side streets.
    Getting "nudged" at even 10 kph can still end up with disastrous consequences to both body and bank balance. I was "nudged" doing fifty. Driver changed lanes; never saw me as I body-surfed the bitumen into the gutter. 7 months in hospital, still rehabilitating 14 months later.
    Moral? Stay super alert: Drive as if everyone else is an idiot.

    • FirstNameLastName on 10/01/2017 - 16:51

      i lost an uncle and almost several brothers to motorbikes.
      i have almost been killed on my pushbike several times (t-boned, several surgeries etc etc)
      yeah, you definitely need to be alert of everyone and anything.

      but that high level of alertness was part of the thrill of it for me..
      having to be 'at one with the matrix' around you..
      but after my last accident I found that adrenaline turned to fear/anxiety.. almost got doored on my first ride post rehab (was so close i heard the exiting driver gasp, and the woosh of a 4wd that just nicked me as i swerved out).

      anyway, hope you have got the compo wheels turning to help with your rehab and future pain etc.
      pm me if you haven't and i can reply with what tips i know regarding that.
      i'm sure you are sorted by now though.

      you just gotta make it til anything with 4 wheels+ has to be autonomous :)

  • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2017 - 14:41

    you ran into the back of another vehicle you are instantly at fault pay up do not pass go do not collect $200 dollars

    chassis bent write off
    damage exceeds the insured amount write off

    Lesson learned the hard way ,pay up move on with your life

  • Baebs on 10/01/2017 - 14:59
    +7

    Stop replying guys, OP's long gone.

    • John Dough on 10/01/2017 - 16:46

      Yep, I think he got the point.

      • UFO on 10/01/2017 - 18:07
        +1

        Long gone? As in yesterday afternoon? What, are you a goldfish or something? He'll reply, just give him a little time :).

  • hashtagbargain on 10/01/2017 - 15:14
    +5

    Between this and the other post of the guy taking down colleague's photos at work, troll posts sure are high quality these days!

  • victimize on 10/01/2017 - 17:32
    +9

    Coincidently i actually work within the Insurance sector.

    I deal with Allianz, NRMA, RACQ, etc etc all day everyday.

    Your best chance at negotiation is..

    "Claiming Financial Hardship"

    They will request bank statements, they have the power to put you on a payment plan, they even have the power to reduce it ALOT if you pay upfront.

    I see it on a day to day basis at work, you could have a job and earn $1000 a week and still claim financial hardship, if your $1000 was going to rent, sick parents, kids, etc.

    They are NOT allowed to put you in a worse off position than you already are before the accident.

    Hope this helped,

    Source: Literally work in Recoveries and Settlements for Australia's biggest insurer.

    • doodo477 on 10/01/2017 - 19:07
      +2

      @victimize What are some of the amazing screw up's you've seen for Recoveries? Would love to hear some of the horror stories.

    • eneloop on 11/01/2017 - 19:54
      +1

      Please do an AMA @victimize

    • eneloop on 11/01/2017 - 19:55
      +1

      Please do an AMA

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2017 - 14:38

      your expertise is required here at ozbargain. +1 AMA

  • UFO on 10/01/2017 - 18:05
    +1

    OP, don't go on a payment plan/claim financial hardship.
    This is a debtors agreement, and could hit your credit rating.

    I'm not going to give you a hard time, mistakes happen and you learn from them, case closed.

    Be VERY thankful you didn't hit a newer model (or more expensive make!). Getting off uninsured for $5,500 is a dream come true. Seriously.
    Pretty much any other car would have cost you thousands more.

    If you have gainful employment, go get a loan. Or if you have a half decent income, get a credit card. Put it on that, then look for a 0% balance transfer offer at another card. Pay off the loan amount at cheaper rates than house loans! The good thing with doing it this way is you have negotiating power to lower the amount by paying everything upfront (no payment plans, no collection agencies, no hassle to them). Offer them $3500 (that's what you can raise as a cash payout, otherwise you'll have to enter a payment plan over an extended period. You never know if you don't ask.

    There's no wiggling out of this one. Low balling, contesting, or refusing will simply cause you more pain financially and emotionally.

    Just get it sorted now, don't put your head in the sand and wait till the last minute. Keep communication lines open with NRMA as well. Don't just not reply. If in doubt seek legal advice, but the issue with the law is that you need to leg to stand on (an argument as to why you shouldn't pay), and you don't… hence the constant advice being given to pay.

    Pay up, and learn from it bro. No other way out of this one.

  • sunnyc on 10/01/2017 - 20:47
    +1

    pay up. get insurance. and be grateful that your lesson was that you only hit a shit car while uninsured. If you hit an luxury car. expect 10k+ fixing fee

    • UFO on 10/01/2017 - 21:19
      +1

      And then some!
      Even a basic C Class Merc with a bent chassis and airbag deployment would have been $20k I reckon. Even though uninsured, I reckon he's looking at it all wrong… very lucky! Go buy a lotto ticket!

    • HeWhoKnows on 10/01/2017 - 21:20
      -1

      Too late to get insurance now. Whats the first question they ask?….GONG. No insurance here sorry. Try elsewhere.

  • HeWhoKnows on 10/01/2017 - 21:13
    -1

    You stuffed up big time and you know it. We are not magicians, wizards or legal eagles and even if we were we cant help you know. Just pay up and shut up. That's how it goes. You can try making an offer to pay say $4,000. You can ask to get quotes yourself but is it worth it? Dragging the chain will result in additional legal charges. Fools like you stuff it up for other responsible drivers! You should go to jail as well for being so dammed irresponsible. Now go away and leave us alone.
    P.S. Chances of you getting car insurance now are almost ZIP. You have made yourself insurable as well. SUFFER BABY!
    PPS. Next time keep your brief down to the basics and don't try to cover up your mistake. You rear ended someone so you are at fault and that's all that matters.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2017 - 23:33

    something very similar happened to me .
    id love to give OP some advice in private.

  • McFly on 11/01/2017 - 00:43
    -1

    Ignore the ridiculous calls to 'just pay up' - there is no legal or moral reason to just roll over.
    Ask for all the paperwork (quotes, invoices, etc.) you can get and see if the owner/insurance company have done the right thing.
    Chances are the costs are inflated - make a lower offer as others have said. You have nothing to lose and $$$ to 'gain.'

    As far as the hire car costs - DO NOT PAY THEM. Why should you - just because the insurance company says so?

    You have no contract with anyone in this situation, only the insurance company and their customer have a contract between the two of them.
    This means everything is up for negotiation - so negotiate.

  • signanddatehere on 11/01/2017 - 08:57
    +2

    I regularly drive in motorsport events and when I drive on public roads, I keep heaps more distance (but not too far behind) than probably 6/10 drivers out there. I also look ahead beyond the car in front. This has helped be out of trouble for over 10 years. For the 6/10 drivers out there, all it takes is just one sudden stop for the cars behind to have a collision. No margin for safety or sufficient braking distance.

    Smart phones use while driving just makes it even worse.

    • FirstNameLastName on 11/01/2017 - 10:18
      +9

      yesterday I passed a car that had been swerving for quite a while at 100km/h.. lady was looking down at her phone.. i horned her for a while trying to get her attention.. but she didn't look up.. i prayed to Go..google to hurry up with the self-driving.

    • Hahuh on 12/01/2017 - 15:22
      -2

      Are you one of those people that leave 3+ car lengths between you and the car infront?

  • John on 11/01/2017 - 12:41

    I was involved in something similar when I was at uni 10 years ago. Drove a friend's car with no insurance and hit a car on the side. Had to pay $2000+ for the repair. For a uni student like me, it was a ridiculous amount of money. But I paid it off and got through it.. expensive lesson learnt.

    On another story, my friend did the same thing but hit a luxury car (ouch). Luckily the owner was nice and rich enough to let him just pay the excess fee in cash and he will report to his insurance company as his fault.

    You probably can talk the amount down.. and try asking them for a payment plan (say over a year). But be ready to reach into your pocket and pay that amount.

  • JimmyF on 11/01/2017 - 13:18
    +1

    I don't believe his damages were severe enough for a write-off and he wanted a new car.

    The car owner doesn't get to choose if it is written off or not… The insurance company does. So it's not a case they wanted a 'new car'.

  • 2ndeffort on 11/01/2017 - 14:37
    +5

    The reason you are having such a hard time and seem to be on the losing end of all of this is because you are being played by a team of professionals at the other guy's Insurer. I was once hit by a lady doing 60km/hr whilst i was walking my bike across a Zebra crossing. Threw me 20m down the road and had me in hospital for a while. Cops charged her for criminal issues but a few weeks after I got home from hospital and whilst still off work convalescing and limping around the house I received a threatening letter and claim from her solicitor demanding that I pay $4k to have the front of her car repaired. That is, to repair the damage my body did to her paintwork and headlight as she ran me down whilst i walked across a zebra crossing.

    Thankfully, as luck would have it my Home Insurance covered me for personal indemnity so i called them and spoke to them. A few days later their solicitor called me, he had spoken to the cops, knew about her upcoming criminal charges for running me down and basically had a jovial conversation with me. I was worried because the letter of demand and court summons from her solicitor threatened that i had to pay up within 14 days or she would have me in court. The insurance company's solicitor laughed and told me to toss it in the bin. Apparently he had already spoken to her solicitor and called her bluff. Her solicitor was hoping I wasnt insured, was scared of going to court and might just pay up. When he received a call from a big insurer he basically threw up the white flag. I asked the insurance lawyer what I should do and he told me (exact words) ….. "nothing…that's why you pay for insurance".

  • Hellman109 on 11/01/2017 - 14:52
    +1

    I don't believe his damages were severe enough for a write-off

    Yeah they are, multiple safety features + bent chassis I could tell you that without looking.

    Id argue down the hire car and such and say you will pay for the car damage itself, should bring down the costs a bit. Thats about all you can argue away.

  • Major Mess on 11/01/2017 - 15:51
    -4

    I have not read the whole thread, so just in case not mentioned.

    I am pretty sure the OP is entitled to get their own quotes for repair.

    I am very cautious about quotes given by insurance companies. I had a kangaroo run into the side of my commodore, front passenger door dented and 10 cm into rear door. OK looked at it, tail took out the radio antenna, and rear view mirror - easy bit, they need replacing.

    I looked at the panel damage and thought, $700 - $1000. It really wasn't a big deal for a panel beater - about as basic as it gets.

    NRMA come back with $5000. I queried and was told by the NRMA that they replace panels and don't repair. What???? Any way got the car back the first time and there was a major scratch over the work, and no paint in areas - It was Friday and all, but it was really unbelievable to see what they tried to get past. Took it back 3 more times, and the radio antenna still doesn't work, and the panels, were not replaced.

  • apptrack on 11/01/2017 - 16:50

    Ask for a payment plan

  • jamball on 11/01/2017 - 18:16

    Get a family loan and pay it off without interest.

  • vorsprung on 11/01/2017 - 19:32

    You chose to take this risk. I can't see the pictures any more, but most people are very surprised at the cost of smash repairs. We live in Australia; labour isn't cheap.
    You're lucky it was only $5500, and not a brand new car or a Ferrari.
    I'm just glad the victim in this scenario is insured, so they don't have to deal with you directly (and have you disagree with the amount).
    This type of ignorance really gets under my skin.

    • photonbuddy on 11/01/2017 - 23:31

      I agree totally.

      All these people saying not to pay, negotiate, they don't deserve a hire car …

      If they are insured, I bet they bitch and moan about their premiums, but it's these attitudes that put premiums up.

      Of course OP has to pay for a hire car. What should the victim do for transport because of the OP's screw-up?

      It really gets me that these people simply don't give a toss about other motorists, but when they are on the other end, being screwed-over by someone simply following the type of advise they freely hand out, it's a different story.

      The only way to deal with a-holes like this is to have comprehensive insurance.

      • McFly on 12/01/2017 - 00:16
        +1

        All these people saying not to pay

        Almost no one is saying that, including the OP.

        negotiate

        Only a (rich) fool wouldn't negotiate in this situation - or at the very least ask for all documentation.

        Of course OP has to pay for a hire car.

        Why?

        • signanddatehere on 12/01/2017 - 08:57

          why?

          Most Australian drivers don’t know that they’re legally entitled to a like-for-like accident replacement vehicle whilst theirs is being repaired.

          http://www.compassclaims.com.au/

          key words 'legally entitled'. when not at fault.

          if you hit someone's car that is being used for his only mode of transport (due to living in a woop woop suburb or just lack of feasible public transport) to go and earn income, then why would he have to forgo income for days?

        • McFly on 12/01/2017 - 09:29

          @signanddatehere: You obviously have no idea how our legal system works.
          I guess that's good news - it means you've never been in a situation where you've really needed it.

        • photonbuddy on 12/01/2017 - 12:12

          Nothing wrong with asking for all the documentation, but trying to negotiate a settlement if said documentation checks out is simply shirking your responsibility. If you don't want to have to deal with this sort of thing, then have insurance. If you can afford to own and operate a car, you can afford insurance.

          I was recently hit by a pensioner (her description), and she was going on about how she just paid this and just paid that and had no insurance, and would be able to pay off the damage. I had zero sympathy for her. Fortunately, I have the common sense to have insurance, and as my car is worth a modest amount, I choose comprehensive. The $530 annual premium is well worth it.

          As for a hire car, what is the owner of the damaged car supposed to do while he has no car? Of course the at fault driver should be paying for a hire car.

        • McFly on 12/01/2017 - 12:36

          @photonbuddy:

          but trying to negotiate a settlement if said documentation checks out is simply shirking your responsibility

          And if it doesn't?
          And if it does but the at-fault driver doesn't have the money?

          I have never said the OP doesn't owe the money (for repairs), neither has the OP for that matter.
          What I have said is just rolling over and accepting anything the insurance company says and automatically paying whatever they ask is just plain stupid. This goes for everything in private and public life - it's just (what used to be) common sense.

          If you don't want to have to deal with this sort of thing, then have insurance. If you can afford to own and operate a car, you can afford insurance.

          I wouldn't dream of driving without insurance, and the OP has "learnt my lesson" - there is no need for people to go over this a hundred times.

          Of course the at fault driver should be paying for a hire car.

          What's with this "of course" rubbish?
          People all over the country (and world) are inconvenienced every second of every day by someone else doing something illegal - or even legal - that negatively affects them. If those people want to be compensated for that they can go to court/government authorities and try their luck.
          Another who doesn't understand anything about our legal system…

        • photonbuddy on 12/01/2017 - 23:29

          @McFly:

          If you think I should have to be inconvenienced or out of pocket to get around because YOU are too stupid to have insurance, then that really does tell us a lot about the kind of person you really are. Defending the OP's right to screw over the insurance company really puts the icing on the cake.

          Lets just hope you never read/watch the news and get outraged by injustices in this world, when your happy to promote them yourself.

        • McFly on 12/01/2017 - 23:40

          @photonbuddy: Try actually reading what I've written before going off like a 20 year old firecracker.

  • ankor on 11/01/2017 - 23:29

    So much lols in this thread..

  • madamethrifty on 12/01/2017 - 08:42

    I think everything that could be said has been, but I just wanted to reiterate that

    1. I'm glad no-one was hurt (for obvious reasons and it would have been a hell of a lot messier if they were) and

    2. The true 'punishment' to OP for not being insured is well under $5,500: you must first deduct the (theoretical) excess that you would have paid had you had insurance ($500-$1000), as well as yearly premiums had you had insurance ($300-$1000+ PER YEAR).

    Depending on the amount of time that you have been driving, you may have actually came out ahead in this one. There are so many people that would shirk responsibility in this situation - don't be one. Approach it honestly with all parties involved. Make use of any free legal advice that you may have available to you (uni perhaps?), and communicate with the insurance company. If you show that you are there and not hiding under a rock you are most likely to have a better outcome.

  • joeno on 12/01/2017 - 10:08

    I know grubs like OP-san. Reckless driver crashes into your car, says sorry, then backpedals his/her story and make it seem like it's your fault because they're a dishonest grub who wants to avoid paying for damages they caused.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2017 - 10:50

      and he hasnt been man enough to respond either..

  • bah humbug on 12/01/2017 - 18:18
    +1

    Wow. Lets get this straight. You have no insurance, none. Then you take to the roads. You get involved in an accident which ultimately is deemed your fault. You come to an online forum, seemingly oblivious to your blatant ignorance & looking for guidance/sympathy.

    Step 1. Get insurance.
    Step 2. Pay up.
    Step 3. Keep a safe distance.
    Step 4. Learn from this.

  • Herbse on 13/01/2017 - 08:52
    +1

    OP has abandoned the thread. Anyone still replying is doing it for their own benefit.

  • Mysterious Laptop on 13/01/2017 - 16:09

    got me wondering, why don't insurance companies do deals on ctp AND tpp? of course its still optional to get the tpp, but it might help consumers actually insure at the very least tpp, as well as generating extra business.

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