What NBN Modem Do I Need for HFC?

Hoju on 27/04/2017 - 20:16

I am so confused, and sure someone here has an easy answer. Reaching out!

NBN is coming to our area in the next few weeks and I want it.
When I do the address lookup thing, it says we'll have HFC.
I have no idea if that's better or worse than NBN, or if it means them running some new cable into our apartment.

But what I do know is that I have no idea what kind of modem I now need.
I assume my crappy ADSL2 netgear one won't work for a start.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what kind of modem I need for HFC NBN? I was wanting one with a wireless router included, and having read up a bit, would like AC wireless as our current 150mbps wifi is a bit rubbish.

Any sub $100 solutions, even used, would be great, thanks very much!!

Computing

Comments

  • mskeggs on 27/04/2017 - 20:28
    +2

    I have no idea if that's better or worse than NBN,

    It is substantially worse than the fibre originally planned, but is pretty common in built up suburbs. In theory, it can be dimensioned to give you a good experience. Time will tell.

    You will need to select an ISP. You will get plenty of junk mail in coming weeks urging you to select this ISP or that. If you have a neighbour who is pleased with their NBN ISPs performance, that is as good a recommendation as any, as even if I like my ISP here, your local network might be congested on my ISP.

    All the reputable ISPs will sell/give you a suitable modem. It is an advantage to use their recommended modem as that is what they are most comfortable with at the helpdesk if you have any issues.

    My suggestion, based on the lessons learned from us getting NBN a couple of months ago, is to ask your current ISP to handle the migration, then when all the disruption is finished, consider if they still offer the best value for you. Otherwise, you risk finger pointing between the old ISP, new ISP and the NBN cable company if anything goes wrong.

    • kerfuffle on 27/04/2017 - 22:30

      Can attest to junk mail; at one stage I had four different companies contact me in the span of a week … (in NBN-ready area but haven't switched yet; also HFC)

      • GaryG on 28/04/2017 - 19:24

        My area is not even NBN-ready, according to the NBN, and I have already started to get the mail! It's listed as July - September and HFC as well.

  • Hoju on 27/04/2017 - 20:32
    +1

    Thanks for the input. I'll be going with Exetel as they offer the best rate / plan to suit me, and I've been with them for 12 years.

    They do offer a bundled modem on their webpage but it doesn't look like an HFC one, as it says "use your existing telephone line".

    Hence I went on the lookout for my own option, but I see your point about getting their bundled one so that if there are issues, they can't blame an external product/supplier.

    • scrimshaw on 27/04/2017 - 20:57
      +1

      I'll be going with Exetel as they offer the best rate / plan to suit me, and I've been with them for 12 years.

      It may be wise to choose an ISP based on the quality of the service and reliability they offer. Not by how much money you'll save and all that jazz. If the service is crap, you will be unhappy and you will leave the provider anyway..

      Exetel is a discount service provider and the quality of their service will reflect that.

      If you go with them try not to sign up for 12 or 24 month contracts. Opt for a month-by-month plan — if the speeds are no good during 9PM peak "Netflix" hours, you can easily switch to a different provider without feeling the sting of the contract breakout fee.

      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 28/04/2017 - 01:05

        just a headsup that I hit "+" in error on this post, have no knowledge of Exetel at all

    • Diji1 on 27/04/2017 - 21:00

      God don't go with Exetel.

      • Hoju on 27/04/2017 - 21:14

        I love em!
        I don't have high demands on the net, don't game or D/L much and their customer service has always been good for me.

        I currently use a $5 modem router combo. I'm only going to nbn as it's the same price as my current adsl plus phone, but speeds aren't a huge issue. The only reason I wanted AC wireless is I do a lot of plex streaming so faster wireless would be a pro

        • kiitos on 28/04/2017 - 09:00

          Me too, been with them about the same time as you, customer service variable depending on who you get but haven't had to contact them very much over this time.

          Apparently we'll be getting HFC too, so thanks for this post, it has been very informative.

          And for a router, I have an Asus RT68U which has amazing range. Would recommend.

  • kywst on 27/04/2017 - 20:32
    +5

    Answer is tailored to you.

    HFC is internet delivered over the same cable as Foxtel/Cable Internet. They have deployed a technology that allows for more data to be sent over the existing cable than previously. You have, in effect, waited a decade to receive the NBN when the infrastructure has most likely been sitting out the front the entire time - perhaps a couple of decades.

    Your existing ADSL2+ modem can not be used and you will also lose your phone line as you know it but still be able to keep your phone number. You can purchase your own modem but I feel you'd be best off letting your ISP take care of this for you. If you want to better your WiFi situation, you can purchase a WiFi router (not modem) that suits your needs.

    • Hoju on 27/04/2017 - 20:35

      Thanks for the advice.

      So getting a router added to a bundled cable modem is the best option then? I can't find cable modem router combos, they seem a different breed!

      • kywst on 27/04/2017 - 20:39

        So getting a router added to a bundled cable modem is the best option then?

        Correct. Not sure if the ISP will offer a WiFi router but they can be purchased readily. MSY is always cheap if not so cheerful.

      • scrimshaw on 27/04/2017 - 21:02
        +4

        you don't need to buy any modems. Don't waste your money trying to buy one.

        With HFC, you will be given an Arris CM820 DOCSIS capable modem. It could be a different type, depending on whats readily available.

        It's free of charge.

        It's configured by your NBN installer and he will tell you how long it takes for Exetel to activate your connection. Exetel will then mail you a username and password for your logins.

        This modem then needs to be connected to a router.

        • Hoju on 27/04/2017 - 21:10

          No way! That's great news thanks. Fingers crossed that's how it works out.

        • kywst on 27/04/2017 - 21:37

          you don't need to buy any modems. Don't waste your money trying to buy one.

          follows

          So getting a router added to a bundled cable modem is the best option then?

          OP thought HFC was separate to NBN and now you introduce an additional layer to their existing understanding of delivery. Played.

  • Domingo on 27/04/2017 - 21:39
    +1

    NBN provide a Cable NTD, which is essentially a Cable modem. This gives you a single LAN port to connect to.

    You can connect that via a LAN cable to a single PC if that is the only device you use. If you use more than once device, you'll most likely want a Router. If your existing ADSL modem does Wifi, then you can probably continue to use that - most ADSL modems these days are Modem/Routers, although not all.

    Almost any of these will work:
    https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/c/technology…
    but shop around and get something suited to your needs at a good price. At minimum get a wireless N device, but wireless AC is the newest standard and is faster if you have more devices or want to stream HD content.

    • KitchenSink on 27/04/2017 - 21:52

      Does the NBN HFC box do voice like the NBN FTTP Box with Uni-V or just use VoIP? Its another thing the OP has to consider

      Edit: nevermind :D

  • Hoju on 27/04/2017 - 21:56

    Thanks for all the advice. I hadn't heard of the NTD before, but all makes sense.
    Even watched this!
    http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/already-con…

    So now I'll just find a half decent ish router and enjoy.
    No need for VOIP or anything, all our phone stuff is on mobiles or on computers.

    • awoff1 on 27/04/2017 - 22:11
      +2

      Those videos are for FTTP btw, see here for HFC.

      • Hoju on 28/04/2017 - 10:31

        Ah thanks for that!

        Hmm weird. So at the moment there's foxtel connected to the fire hose cupboard outside our apartment.
        By the looks of that link, someone will be drilling or somehow connecting a cable outlet inside our apartment??!

  • havebeerbelywillsumo on 28/04/2017 - 01:03

    OP - re "buy the ISP's recommended modem". I read (on Whirlpool?) that TPG (& its offshoots) will only supply a Huwaii(sp?) brand modem (or whatever it is) for HFC. The article said (a) was a poor performer (b) the ISP had crippled certain usually user tweakable software settings to fit into the ISP's way of doing things - STRESS HEARSAY & I haven't confirmed (see below, "gave up") BUT if true personally would completely avoid that ISP.

    +++++ for posting OP (if I could). Had the same problem re HFC. No info on the net that I could find and got conflicting answers from my ISP (no you can't use your existing modern & quality Netgear modem) and Skymesh (yep that existing modem will be fine). Note re Skymesh rep - had difficulty in answering any questions and never called back to take application from me so maybe not a good guide. Most people praise Skymesh but this staffer was Poor. I gave up at this point.
    To scrimshaw (thanks) & any others(also thanks)….in plain english please please - I'm guessing you are saying "connect your existing combined router/modem to the single(?) LAN(?) port on the NBN supplied Arris, then via the wireless capability of that existing router/modem you can hook up multiple devices in your home."………from that I also assume I can LAN cable connect a distant PC (wireless flaky due to some steel in the house fabric) from that existing modem/router?
    Answers in simple straightforward terms please. I'm not ashamed to say I'm somewhat tech challenged.

    • Hoju on 28/04/2017 - 10:10
      +1

      My interpretation is:

      • we will get a box with the HFC connection, free
      • we can then either use our existing ADSL modem router as just a router also, both wireless and via cable
      • but it's probably wiser to invest in an appropriate upgrade if possible to get wireless speeds that justify the NBN connection

      I've emailed exetel about what sort of modem they provide and will post the reply here: Edit to add - The modem that is provided by Exetel is compatible with HFC connections as well.
      I suspect this is as a router rather than as modem functionality, given that the NBN box is quite specific.

      • scrimshaw on 28/04/2017 - 12:29
        +1

        Correct. NBNco will give you an Arris Cable Modem. It will look similar to the one shown in the 3d Animation on NBNco's website. It'll have a Coaxial connector (which plugs into your coax port in the wall, and it'll have one RJ45 Ethernet port that'll connect to a router.

        Exetel will provide you a modem router which may cost either $59 ~ $99 upfront or at no charge, depending on how long your contract is and whether you can haggle.

        However, it's not a HFC Cable modem. It would be a VDSL modem+router that you can configure to act as a router and it also provides VOIP features as well.

        You would therefore need two power points to power both your HFC cable modem and your router.

        You can choose NOT to use the included VDSL modem router, if you dislike Exetel's choice of router and you think you have a better one already.
        However, setting up phone service (VOIP) will not be as easy or straightforward.

  • Codeman on 28/04/2017 - 11:47
    +1

    Putting in my 2 cents worth here as well, as I have been an Exetel customer now for almost 12 years, and have only recently transitioned onto the nbn with Exetel for about a month now. Took delivery of Exetel's nbn 300MB router since my existing faster Netgear AC 1200 router was not VOIP capable and found that because my home's construction was full brick (can't be sure this would be same effect for most other brick veneer houses) that the wireless signal from the Exetel router was only capable of reaching full nbn plan speed 25/5 (actual speed most times 23/4.2) was within 20 feet of the routers location. Ultimately decided to route a physical network cable from the Exetel supplied router to my existing Netgear AC router in a central location of my house and now have full speeds of 23/4.2 to all locations in the house using the old wireless router for all of my in-home connections. This made for the easiest setup as I did not need to go around and reconfigure all of the PC's, MP phones, ipads, TV's etc to connect to a new router. For those with an older slower wireless router, any of the newer AC 1200+ type wireless routers would probably do an excellent job of getting a fast wireless signal around your home, based upon my own experience. The only minus from my transition that I found was that since Exetel is a smaller carrier, and actually depends on Optus as their wholesaler (in my area), was that while my initial connection was in early February, my connection was not ported to the nbn until late March probably due to insufficient backend setup in my own area as I requested an nbn connection in the first week of the HFC cable being made available in my area. Hope this helps you in deciding how to go ahead. Also confirming what scrimshaw above posted that nbn supply their own black box modem which Exetel's modem/router connects to and this would be sufficient if the wireless signal from the cheaper Exetel supplied router could reach your entire house at full speed, otherwise you will need to use your existing wireless router as I have had to do or else replace it with a newer faster router.

  • werdnanostaw on 28/04/2017 - 13:48

    I may be wrong but from what I have read if you want to use the VOIP line you have to use the RSPs modem because they won't give you the username and password.

    For HFC and FTTP, not FTTC or FTTN:

    If you want to use the existing phone wiring to send the POTS (Plain Old Telephone System) analog signal to other phone points in the house you have to run a phone patch cable from the modem to the nearest wall socket with a splitter (not an ADSL filter/splitter - throw that away) there if you want to have a phone there.

    With FTTC and FTTN:

    There is VDSL coming into the house on the existing phone line. The phone cables in the house have 4 wires (2 pairs) in them. If you want to send the POTS signal over these wires you have to use the 2nd pair by modifying the wall sockets so they are connected to the 2nd pair. You would need to do some interesting jiggery pokery at the socket that the modem is plugged into because the modem wants to talk to pair 1 and you want to feed the phone signal into pair 2. Legally you would need to have this done by a telecoms licenced tech but…

    BTW the link below indicates that jiggery pokery means:

    dishonest manipulation or nonsense, akin to hocus pocus, humbug, bambosh, baloney, berley (among the Australians), bunkum, hogwash (also known as eyewash), flapdoodle, flim-flam, flumadiddle, rubbish, galbanum (coming from a French word for empty representations), hooey, hot air, motormouthing, poppycock or malarkey

    whereas I thought it meant something like:

    fudging, hashing together, jerry rigging, Heath Robinson device.

    Has anyone actually heard of berley? I'm from Perth; is this an Eastern States' term?

    http://time.com/3936188/scalia-jiggery-pokery/

  • kiitos on 29/04/2017 - 16:17

    I don't quite understand the VoIP requirements. So we'll be getting HFC next year sometime, so that means no more pstn connection anymore? It is it still Ann option?

    I used to use VoIP on our analogue cordless phones via my NetComm modem/router. I thought the modem part was doing the VoIP, but Codename mentioned above about their router not being VoIP capable, so is it a router function? I have an Asus RT68U and don't recall it mentioning VoIP anywhere.

    So when we switch to NBN HFC, what will we need to do able of phone calls and or current phone number?

    Also, our house has existing cable points on the house for both Foxtel and Optus from the previous owners. Would they be usable as NBN points for plugging a modem in? If not, I guess nbnco brings cable up to the house, and it's up to you to pay for any extra calling to get it to, say, the centre of the house?

    • GaryG on 29/04/2017 - 20:37
      +1

      Sounds like your Netcomm modem/router had built in VOIP so you could continue to use it for that though depending on what it offers in speed as a router/switch and any wireless it might be limiting for those. Lots of modem/routers with VOIP just use analog handsets.

      If you decide to replace it then you can either look at a new router with VOIP or VOIP as a seperate function. Gigaset is a worthwhile brand to look at with digital cordless handsets and corded handsets too.

      • kiitos on 29/04/2017 - 23:01

        I neglected to mention that one reason we used to use VoIP, and don't use it any longer, was that the function stuffed up so that the PSTN pass-through kept cutting in and out, leading to missed, dropped or incoherent incoming calls, so we stopped using VoIP. And we moved to a decent mobile plan so outgoing calls are done using mobile now.

        I'm probably using the wrong terminology, but will going to NBN cause our current PSTN/analog phone line to stop working? Do we have to change over to VoIP for incoming phone calls?

        I looked into porting our phone number to a VoIP provider ages ago, but there were allegations that you could lose you phone number if you wanted to port out again, and we don't want to lose our current number.

        • GaryG on 30/04/2017 - 00:02

          Yes you will lose PSTN/analog and need VOIP for incoming calls if you want to port your old number across so people can still contact you that way. And yes it is possible that porting from one VOIP provider to another could be a challenge as I don't think they have sorted through the whole question of number portability for VOIP as yet.

        • Hoju on 30/04/2017 - 06:09

          When I ordered our nbn service it gave me the option of porting my existing landline number to VoIP during the port process.

        • kiitos on 30/04/2017 - 15:45

          Sorry for being thick about this, but is it necessary to move to VoIP when you get NBN? Or can you still retain an analogue phone line?

          It wasn't quite clear to me if it's necessary to switch over, or Just that you can choose to switch to VoIP of you want to, eg to have net and phone under the one provider.

        • GaryG on 30/04/2017 - 17:43
          +1

          @kiitos: As far as I understand it you cannot retain the analog phone line beyond the 18 months overlap/changeover period that they offer everyone, or are meant to. So you will need to after that if not before.

  • Codeman on 30/04/2017 - 19:07
    +1

    Confirming what GarryG stated that the analog phone line would only be available for at least another 18 months after the nbn has come into your area, after which time the connection is cut off at any time after the 18 months. If you continue to use both your analog line and the nbn connection once you have been ported, then you will be billed for both services, so its best to migrate onto the nbn once ported. In my current situation with Exetel having been ported to nbn since late March, we still need to use the analog line for our phone line since VOIP has not been enabled in our area yet by the wholesaler who Exetel deal with, and we are being billed for both services. Exetel have told me that I will be given a credit for the analog service once the VOIP is available in the next few weeks.

    • GaryG on 01/05/2017 - 19:29

      Wow, that's a crazy situation with VOIP. Any reason you don't just get a service from a third party?

      After all, there should be no need to be limited to any particular provider for VOIP, or even use multiple providers as I do now.

  • kiitos on 30/04/2017 - 20:39

    Ok, I understand now. Thanks very much, both of you!

  • Hoju on 08/05/2017 - 19:47

    Update:

    NBN came around

    Foxtel connection exists in the utility cupboard outside the apartment in the corridor.
    The installer wanted to drill through the wall to run the cable into our apartment, right at waist height, then run a cable down the wall to the modem. They did provide a free black box modem thingo.

    Obviously would've looked pretty hideous, so for now the modem sits in the utility cupboard and we'll work out a way to run the connection to the router.
    Kind of crappy. I had wondered how they'd get the cable connection into the apartment, and the solution was pretty undesirable! Something to consider if you're heading down this route….

    On the plus side, with exetel it took about a week from ordering to installation and an active service…

  • Hoju on 08/05/2017 - 21:24

    Addition.

    Far out what a joke.
    There's no realistic way of running the cable into the apartment without some serious drilling. Apparently I have to pay an electrician to do this if we aren't happy with the NBN technician's plan to run it straight through the middle of the wall.

    Now I'm wondering if it's even worth it.
    Our current speed on ADSL 2 is around 9.5-10Mbps
    Seeing as I only ordered the basic NBN, at 'up to 12 Mbps', is it even worth bothering with NBN? I only did it because the price is the same but the installation process is pretty crap.

    But 10Mbps to 12 Mbps doesn't really seem worth it…

    • BoyGotSkills on 10/06/2017 - 15:20

      Your concerns are totally valid. You're really not going to notice any difference in page load times unless you're switching to a ISP with better backhaul. Might as well keep what you have for now unless a better offer comes along - What ever that might be in a year from now.

      • Hoju on 10/06/2017 - 16:20
        +1

        Well you're not wrong. I did the switch basically because it was free and the same monthly price and data as my current setup. Sort of future proofing myself.

        But my hfc modem box thing is sitting out in the fire hose cupboard in the apartment block hallway, cables running under carpet common property and front door then out to the modem. A real mess as the installer would only drill at about chest height into the wall then the cable would have to plug in there, rather than down at floor level.

        Emailed nbn saying this wasn't really acceptable and they emailed back saying contact my service provider so they can contact nbn to arrange a new installation (wtf?!)

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