Overcrowded schools : How to tackle this ignored issue?

vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 12:40
Last edited 30/04/2017 - 10:40

Hi all

Looking at current situation in western Sydney where public schools are so overcrowded plus thousands of units under constructions which may put more pressure, how do we get better education for kids?

— New temporary classes means no play area

— Less number of qualified teachers for kids

— Shrinking open spaces means schools can't expand

— Large migration ( puts heavy burden )

Moreover in last two years nothing extraordinary efforts from government.

Delivered more schools and classrooms: funding for more than 1100 new classrooms, providing more than 25,000 additional student places. 15 new and relocated schools are either in construction or the design/planning stages, while 24 major upgrades are in construction or in the design/planning stag

Reference
https://www.nsw.gov.au/your-government/the-premier/media-rel…

Edit
Root cause

— Ignored or less priotise by all govt since last decade
— Migration
— High Residential and Commercial constructions

Options

— Private schools are pretty good options for kids as it bring not only quality education but high rich network and networth in future
— Having two shift is only feasible option
— Statewide planning should be commence without any delay so that kids enrolling in 2022 wont face issue
— Teachers should be well look after
— Home schooling or moving out from Syd is good option but not feasible for majority who are facing this issue.

Education & Work

Comments

  • Diji1 on 28/04/2017 - 12:49
    +30

    Considering that half - that's 50% - of Australia's populagtion lives paycheck to paycheck there does seem to be an amazing propensity for voting against their own interests.

    • Oofy Doofy on 28/04/2017 - 22:11
      +1

      Government can change it's mind at will, about anything. Two party preferred system means you can screw it up 50% of the time or 100% of the time.

    • Gershom on 29/04/2017 - 22:28

      Source?

  • Baysew on 28/04/2017 - 12:49
    -5

    Send them to a private school.

    • vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 13:12
      +8

      Its an option but not viable for all.this is why we have public school.

      If we don't have quality education then we won't have a strong citizens in future.

      • JimB on 28/04/2017 - 14:27
        +4

        Of course the goal is to have strong public schools for everyone.

        Unfortunately not all public schools are the same.

        I have made the decision to send my children to private as I am not willing to risk my children's education at a public school just because there is an idea that everyone has the right to a great education at a public school.

        • OzzyOzbourne on 29/04/2017 - 17:46
          +21

          Good for you, however do you mean in one of the most expensive 1st word countries with the most liveable cities in the world, we can't expect to have great education? I would have expected that to be one of the most basic requirements.

        • virhlpool on 30/04/2017 - 09:10
          +14

          You have a big assumption here that private schools are always better.

        • Baysew on 30/04/2017 - 12:08
          +4

          @virhlpool: Your question was about overcrowding, lack of qualified teachers and lack of play areas. I would suggest that private schools are always better in these areas.

        • TenaciousTom on 01/05/2017 - 11:12
          +2

          @virhlpool: A big idea I've seen here in Australia. Always so odd to me how people praise private schools here…

        • JimB on 01/05/2017 - 14:38

          @virhlpool:

          Fair point.

          However I did say I made the decision for myself and that not all public schools are the same. I also state that not all private schools are the same either.

        • JimB on 01/05/2017 - 14:51
          +1

          @OzzyOzbourne:

          I also expect great public transport in one of the most expensive 1st word countries with the most liveable cities in the world. I also would have expected that to be one of the most basic requirements.

          However as there are no train services in my area currently, I'm not going to waiting around catching the bus to work while hoping one day the Government will fulfill their promise to build a train line. So in the meantime I'm driving to work.

      • thechemist on 29/04/2017 - 22:38
        +5

        I see education for our kids as a 50/50 split responsibility between parents and school. Even if you can't afford the best school you can make up a bit of it for by being active in your kids education.

        Obviously best if you do both with good private school and being involved in your kids education

        Just throwing this out there is Public schools a form of welfare and treated more as a safety net leading to the governments not funding it properly?

      • nikey2k27 on 30/04/2017 - 11:12

        Catholic School real only cost 2,000 more or free if your poor Catholic with big family. (at archdioceses office discretion)

  • Ryanek on 28/04/2017 - 13:26
    +30

    I propose a Hunger Games type solution where we wean out the weak.

    • vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 13:46
      +2

      I believe a Hollywood movie is releasing soon on this subject

    • blitz on 28/04/2017 - 14:01
      +16

      wean out the weak.

      "Weed". It's "weed" out the weak…

      • poboy on 28/04/2017 - 14:31
        +15

        Not if you're Nestle.

      • airal3rt on 28/04/2017 - 14:33
        +43

        Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there.

        Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.

        Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.

        • retiredfeline on 28/04/2017 - 14:54
          +3

          Robo autocorrect is that you?

        • Mika1234 on 28/04/2017 - 18:43
          +5

          @brokeunistudent:

          Not sure if srs

        • subywagon on 28/04/2017 - 20:12
          +9

          Can you please be a bit more pacific with your comment?

        • blitz on 29/04/2017 - 16:10
          +6

          That is excellent.

          Edit: but sadly not original:
          https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/357v40/i_holehar…

        • freakatronic on 30/04/2017 - 07:24
          +1

          Genius, genius!

        • virhlpool on 30/04/2017 - 09:12
          +3

          Loved this peach of cake.

        • [Deactivated] on 30/04/2017 - 09:27

          @blitz: That's not the original either.

        • Baysew on 30/04/2017 - 10:03

          @4sure: Thanks for shredding some light on that.

        • neonlight on 01/05/2017 - 11:51

          @blitz:

          Sadly, in an age where "copy and paste" are a blessing in the skies, where originals are a diamond dozen….

          I made that correction….probably not original neither nor I give a damn

      • Ryanek on 28/04/2017 - 14:50
        +8

        Yes you're right, but I stand by my weaner.

        • syousef on 30/04/2017 - 09:23

          You and your children have been weened out by your comment. No soup for you!

      • Suspect420 on 03/05/2017 - 22:45

        Mmmm weed

    • nobro25 on 01/05/2017 - 17:01

      It's been done already. … Battle Royale (2000)

  • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 13:27

    This is one of the reasons why I do not plan to teach after my teaching degree. Teachers are overworked, underpaid and have to put up with shitty conditions that include overcrowding. I am already saving for my future kids' private school fees. There's no other alternative.

    • Euphemistic on 28/04/2017 - 13:30
      +1

      Home schooling?

      • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 13:53
        -7

        I wouldn't want my kids in schools less than the equivalent of top selective schools or the likes of Shore/Knox/Barker/Abbotsleigh/Wenona/Pymble Ladies. Education is very important, as is the reputation of the school.

        • Archi on 28/04/2017 - 15:59
          +12

          I know a couple of kids that go to private schools… they turned out to be a couple of turds (expensive turds) so what if you go to an elite school doesn't mean they will graduate and become a great contribution to the community but rather a burden.

        • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 19:18
          +2

          @Archi: who you know is more important than what you know.

        • Kill Joy on 29/04/2017 - 18:02
          +2

          @niggard:

          I think you hold quite an elitist attitude that is unwarranted. Most the people who I want to public high school are more successful professionally (and socially for the most part) then those I attended private primary school with.

          A smart driven person is a smart driven person, they will succeed in any average or above schooling system regardless. No need to get them in a top 10 school where they would do just as well or better at the local public.

        • Findo on 29/04/2017 - 18:19
          -1

          @Kill Joy: primary school is unimportant.

        • Kill Joy on 29/04/2017 - 18:56

          @niggard:

          You missed my point - those people went one to private high schools.

          But your attitude still suggests you need to heavily distance yourself from the industry cause I would hate to have some one so dispassionate about teaching in a classroom.

        • Findo on 29/04/2017 - 19:02

          @Kill Joy: I got a provisional job offer from a private school on the north shore already. But I don't plan to teach, don't worry.

        • mrjames on 29/04/2017 - 19:27
          +1

          Haha nice one. Have you ever worked at ones of these schools?

          I can assure you that a selective public school is far better

        • Findo on 29/04/2017 - 21:35

          @mrjames: I have seen enough of my extended family and family friends in both top private schools and top selective schools. I was bound for one of those schools on the North Shore myself, but I ended up at a selective school in the Hills district. There were both immense positives and negatives in going to such a selective school, such as the do or die attitude towards studying which was unhealthy. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say whether going to a private school would've been better.

          I have done two placements at private schools. From what I have seen with my own eyes, the private system is the way to go if you can afford it.

        • greatlamp on 30/04/2017 - 09:47

          @Kill Joy: I have met many successful people proud to say they came from the public school system, when they went to a selective well funded school like Melbourne High.

        • ozbjunkie on 30/04/2017 - 11:56
          +1

          @niggard:

          I disagree. A good education on primary school can make a huge difference.

          I remember changing from private to public between years 2 and 3, and was really surprised that the workload and level of ability was so low in public school.

          It could be the teachers, class sizes, or just lower expectation - I certainly don't blame the kids. But I would want to be around more intellectually stimulating playmates - hence the merit of (some) private primary schools.

        • Findo on 30/04/2017 - 12:32

          @ozbjunkie: I would argue going from a public primary school to a top private high school would be more beneficial in the long run than going from a top private prep school to a comprehensive high school. Hardly any primary school kids have the means to realise their ambitions, and sure as hell their parents wouldn't be paving the path for them to enter the workforce (yet).

          Primary education is indeed important, but less so for climbing the social ladder.

    • sparkles on 28/04/2017 - 13:56
      +19

      I'm confused why you'd bother finishing a teaching degree if you have no intention to teach. You're effectively taking the spot of someone who actually might follow through.

      • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 14:01
        +7

        I'm more than 75% through the course. If I exit now, I'll walk away with a mere BA and I would've wasted 4.5 years (medical problems delayed course progression). If my plans fall through I can still teach.

        • whooah1979 on 28/04/2017 - 16:13
          +23

          If my plans fall through I can still teach

          Please don't. Your posts doesn't sound like someone that will enjoy teaching in an
          overworked, underpaid and have to put up with shitty conditions that include overcrowding. just sticking it out for a paycheque is unfair for pupils.

          Save the spot for someone that are passionate about teaching. quality teachers makes quality pupils (in most cases).

        • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 19:18
          -3

          @whooah1979: I am finishing consistently in the top 5-10% of my cohort. Why should I not teach when jobs are scarce? Don't worry though, it's only likely I'll be able to pick up contract work if I want to stay in major cities.

        • fossilfuel on 28/04/2017 - 19:52
          +7

          @whooah1979: Exactly this.

          @niggard: Doesn't matter if you're in the top whatever %, I'd rather a quality teacher than a quality learner. It's unfair to both teachers and pupils if you stick around for a paycheck. I've had some teachers who weren't the best at their subject but they were good role models. With that attitude, you sound like a nightmare to work with.

        • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 20:00
          +3

          @fossilfuel: you're making a lot of assumptions there mate. My placement reviews have all been extremely positive. No one needs to know I don't enjoy teaching.

        • Oofy Doofy on 28/04/2017 - 22:13

          There's a lot of good will in teaching, it's something noble imo. It's a problem when teachers are only doing it for a crust while dreaming of other things and they aren't really trying. Either that or the job wears them down and it's 6 or 1/2 a dozen of the other.

        • gimli on 29/04/2017 - 17:19

          @niggard:
          Mr Smith, is that you?

        • Gronk on 29/04/2017 - 17:54
          +5

          @fossilfuel:

          Completely agree that quality teachers are what we need more of, not sure we're going to agree on what makes for a good quality teacher though ;)

          A good quality teacher does a good job regardless of their opinions of the prevailing conditions, because a good quality teacher wouldn't bring said opinions to the classroom.

          I'd prefer a realist who is genuinely good at their job than a dreamer any day of the week, there are plenty of enthusiastic teachers out there who aren't really all that good at what they do.

        • Krizy on 29/04/2017 - 21:05
          +3

          I doubt that Wooah1979 would consider giving up their job to save a spot for someone more passionate

        • Gershom on 29/04/2017 - 22:41
          +3

          Nothing wrong with a BA mate. Somebody has to make the coffee.

        • Findo on 29/04/2017 - 22:48
          -2

          @Gershom: A barista? Not even…there's a reason why they're called Bachelor of Unemployments

        • Gershom on 29/04/2017 - 22:50

          @niggard: Er, that's the point I'm making.

        • Findo on 29/04/2017 - 23:20

          @Gershom: that somebody won't be an arts graduate. Somebody else will be doing it - someone that can be paid junior wages.

        • ozbjunkie on 30/04/2017 - 12:00
          +5

          @niggard:

          Not sure why you're getting negged for being brutally honest about your experiences.

          Well done for being authentic. I'm sure there are many good teachers who don't love it - it's a job ffs, nobody loves their job all the time.

          Hopefully we appreciate that our job is meaningful, but enjoyment.. that's a stretch.

        • brayhouse on 30/04/2017 - 22:36
          +1

          @niggard: You can definitely be a good teacher without being passionate about it, but you're probably better off not doing it for any significant length of time if you don't enjoy it somewhat. The rate of burn-out in that job is enormous. If you don't have some enthusiasm for the actual job it will suck the life out of you.

          My partner is a teacher, and I've seen so many of her colleagues whose hearts clearly weren't in it go from a mentality of "It's just a job" to "I hate my life, get me out now" because the hours suck (contact hours are relatively short, but lots of work is brought home – although it's easier of you're a STEM teacher), the parents and kids can be incredibly demanding (moreso the former than the latter from what I've seen) and the school politics get to them in the end.

          The ones who don't enjoy it and stick with it for the paycheque are the ones who do the bare minimum, are resented by their colleagues, and appear stuck in a job they hate. So hopefully you could do it for a year or two while you look for something else.

        • Findo on 01/05/2017 - 00:54

          @brayhouse: there has only ever been one job I've ever been keen about, but that door has been shut on me due to my eyes being shithouse. Thanks for your insight, I haven't heard any advice before coming from the partners of teachers. I hope I won't ever have to teach, and if I do it'll only be a stopgap measure to stop myself going on the dole.

        • tap on 01/05/2017 - 12:40

          @ozbjunkie: I'm a teacher. I love my job all the time.

        • ozbjunkie on 01/05/2017 - 22:25

          @tap:

          Well I'm jealous.

      • amkssg on 02/05/2017 - 10:15

        As a teacher, I can safely say that your statement is incorrect.
        The number of teaching graduates have been uncapped for quite a number of years.
        This means that Universities are allowed to accept an unlimited number of applicant for their teaching programs.
        Therefore, he is not taking a spot from anyone. He is just allowing the university to make more money.

        Also, there is a teacher surplus at the moment. Try applying for a teaching job, you won't even get an interview.

    • imtahir7 on 28/04/2017 - 18:38

      you can always crt. no planning, no real responsibility, pays okay.

      • gimli on 29/04/2017 - 17:19

        ?cardiac re-synchronisation therapy
        why?

    • Thaal Sinestro on 29/04/2017 - 19:26
      +5

      Underpaid? They get paid $85,000 + dollars a year, plus get twice as many holidays as the ordinary worker. A mimimum wage earner, in comparison, makes about $33,000 per year.

      • Hamlet on 29/04/2017 - 21:46

        takes years to get up to 85k per year

      • Findo on 29/04/2017 - 23:23
        -1

        $85k is a lowly amount, considering all the hoops one has to jump through. What use are extra holidays when everyone else around you has to work?

        • greatlamp on 30/04/2017 - 09:56
          +4

          85k is well above the average Australian wage, more that half the population will never reach it.

          Of course its not so much that it makes up for a job that eats into your sanity.

        • tap on 01/05/2017 - 12:44
          +1

          Everyone's lost perspective here. You don't teach for the money. There's a much greater reward than the $100k salary. It's the kids. I'm glad you're staying out of teaching niggard, your kids would suffer from your lessons in climbing the "social ladder".

      • [Deactivated] on 01/05/2017 - 11:56

        I work with teachers and they earn every dollar. The time they get off is basically just Time Off In Lieu from when they spend 70-80hrs working in the last two weeks of school for marking.

      • Baghern on 01/05/2017 - 18:49

        $85k isn't much for graduate.

        Really what you're getting in teachers are the bottom/mid tier of graduates. With the good ones going to private schools quickly after for more money

        • [Deactivated] on 01/05/2017 - 20:55
          -1

          So top graduates like you, don't even need to be able to construct coherent sentences? Imagine if you had teachers who were top tier graduates like yourself; your grasp of basic English might even reach the satisfactory level.

  • dasher86 on 28/04/2017 - 13:39
    +1

    relocate to areas where there are capacity in schools.

    • vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 13:47
      -1

      Its an option but no jobs in those areas

      • Findo on 28/04/2017 - 13:49
        +2

        There's no money in teaching. I've heard from former teachers male teachers in primary schools are good for career advancement, and if you move around chasing jobs you can become a director in about 20 years. There are easier jobs out there that pay better. From what I can see from my cohort that's graduating next year, hardly anyone is planning to stay for the long haul and those that got locked into bonded scholarships are regretting their decisions. I highly doubt the teachers in rural areas want to be there, so education might suffer too.

        • vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 13:58
          +2

          May be that's the reason teachers are moving from public to private schools.

          This means pupils dont get precise growth report as they dont get same teachers attention for long time span to judge.

        • syousef on 30/04/2017 - 09:28
          +1

          Yeah that's what our kids need. More bureaucrats in our schools and less teachers.

          Someone should be lobbying for a return to sanity in the teaching profession. A good teacher should be paid well. Instead they get abused because "they get months of holidays every year". At the same time as positions for students are getting difficult to provide, there is a glut of 40,000 extra primary teachers in NSW, and I don't think this is an accident. Supply and demand. Few places means they'll be able to charge at more for fees over time for anything approaching a decent education. More teachers means if one won't cooperate there's the door, and another will replace them. Why provide an education when you can run a lucrative business instead?

        • greatlamp on 30/04/2017 - 10:05
          +1

          @syousef: oversupply of graduates will reach every profession pretty quickly. It's even affecting traditionally protectionist professions like dentistry.

          The issue is the government's push to have 40% of the population with a degree. Jobs that don't need degrees are now filled by graduates, the quality of education is pathetic with everyone fighting for grades and memorizing content for 'high yield', unemployed graduates with wasted time, money, and the most productive years of their lives.

        • syousef on 30/04/2017 - 11:17
          +1

          @rememberme:

          And yet we have the artificial shortages in all the services. Seems to me the sane solution is to cut through the protectionism and actually utilise those people! Job creation, better services. Win, win.

  • altomic on 28/04/2017 - 14:59
    -3

    Reduce the age of compulsory schooling

    • vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 15:34
      +1

      How does that will help

    • brokeunistudent on 28/04/2017 - 17:32
      +2

      And how will OP do that?

    • Hamlet on 29/04/2017 - 21:46
      +1

      too much creativity in ozbargain

    • greatlamp on 30/04/2017 - 10:10

      Yes, but do this by compressing the education system. Year 10 students should be able to start a university degree in high school, and pick other high school subjects to compliment it.

  • Halo375 on 28/04/2017 - 16:02

    Find people that share your views and build an organisation coordinated to raise the profile of public or private funding for public schools. Try to build awareness until it becomes a bigger political issue at the state or federal level. Campaign for politicians that share your values and agree with plans to invest in new schools - continue to push and hope they keep their word and increase investment. OR - support your local schools on fundraising activities to boost their income.

  • brokeunistudent on 28/04/2017 - 17:33
    +7

    Overcrowded schools

    We need much looser gun laws. If it works in the US it should work here.

    • ozbjunkie on 30/04/2017 - 12:04

      Logical and comedic, but there is something off about your comment.

      Too much truth I guess.

  • afoveht on 28/04/2017 - 17:45
    +3

    The state made quick cash by selling land that should be there for growth of schools. AFAIK it is not yet properly addressing that fundamental problem. Real estate prices are now not helping.

    In some areas like those where apartments are coming up quickly in Sydney there will be school crises soon enough. Planners are living in fantasies about low rates of children in these apartments when the reality is that they are full of kids.

    The only solution I can think of is an eventual splitting of students into morning and afternoon shifts, as is already done in some countries.

    • vr4indian on 28/04/2017 - 19:04

      Two shifts is brilliant idea but will change fundamentally how things work here.

      Longer working hours and extended day care. This needs to be back by transport.

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