GAS VS ELECTRICTY - Should I buy Gas or Electric Hot Water system, Stove, Oven?

atris17 on 27/05/2017 - 23:20

Background Information

Renovation an old property for my young family

Forum Aim - Cost Efficient in term of Purchase Cost and Ongoing Cost
Number of People - 6 People
Location - Brisbane, Queensland
Other info - Consider Installing 1.5kw Solar System

Question
1) Stove: Should I buy and install a Gas, Induction or Ceramic Stove?

2) Hot Water system - Should i buy and Install ?

  • instant electric
  • gas tank
  • electric tank

Cant get instant gas, due to low pressure area of my house :(

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Richardc on 27/05/2017 - 23:50
    +1

    for 6 people, gas

  • lost in transit on 28/05/2017 - 00:04
    +1

    I've got gas…

  • supnigs super skids on 28/05/2017 - 00:48
    +1

    Is you already have gas in the house go with that. Else you need to work out which is cheaper and it depends on your usage

  • [Deactivated] on 28/05/2017 - 01:03
    +3

    think about electric with the possibility of using a solar PV diverter further down the track. Also think about solar thermal, the collectors are more efficient than PV panels.
    If you have electric HW you may need an off peak meter to benefit from lower power prices. Which are heading up,up,up
    So for 6 people your tank might be using 10kwh of HW per day ( probably more) . ………Have a look at Renew Magazine by the ATA, one of their back issues has a hot water buyers guide. Will help you consider life cycle costs..

    • atris17 on 28/05/2017 - 17:30

      Thanks, your experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated

  • Car-la-la on 28/05/2017 - 01:16
    +2

    Stove: Induction without a doubt - can recommend Neff brand

    Avoid electric hot water like the plague.
    We originally didn't have the gas line with enough pressure for instant, it wasn't that big a job/cost to upgrade the gasline — we now have the gas instant, cheap as to run
    think only a few hundred bucks

    • atris17 on 28/05/2017 - 17:30

      Thanks, your experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated

  • RobMel on 28/05/2017 - 07:59
    +1

    Consider 3kw solar with split North and East facing setup for longer coverage.
    I suggest those appliance you mainly use during the day to go electric and use Solar.

    • Euphemistic on 28/05/2017 - 08:18
      +1

      I reckon north, west is a better split for solar. Then you can generate power in to the afternoon when you are more likely to use it, especially in summer. Different if you home all day every day, but for people out the house most of the day for wrk etc, then west only can be a better option.

      • RobMel on 29/05/2017 - 21:16

        OOps yes North West of course :)

  • Stewardo on 28/05/2017 - 08:06
    +1

    What is low pressure? Normally when you get meter put on you get high capacity meter and install bigger pipe from meter.

    • atris17 on 28/05/2017 - 17:29

      No idea

      I called APA rep and they told me i wont be able to get instant gas hot water system

      Will be getting a certified plummer/gas fitter to give me better advice

      Again Thanks, your experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated

  • poboy on 28/05/2017 - 08:09
    +1

    Electric oven. Hot water is debatable. Gas today, but likely electric/solar in the years to come.

  • Euphemistic on 28/05/2017 - 08:24
    +1

    We have a gas stove, and gas heater. Everything else is electric, with off peak hot water. The hot water costs less than the connection fee for the gas. The stove only uses about $4 of gas per quarter while the connection fee is around $50. The heater uses a lot more, but only in winter.

    If we hadn't only just paid to get the heater converted to natural gas I would be converting the stove to electric (induction) and getting Bottle LPG for the heater. We love the gas heater, but it seems electric would be cheaper. $250 per year in connection fees for $100 worth of gas doesn't make economic sense.

    I did some sums a few years ago on off peak hot water and found it was around $40 a quarter, so wasn't worth us investing in solar hot water at the time either. The payback period was too long. If our current system dies, then we will reconsider, but until the off peak is pretty cost effective.

    On top of that we have 4kw of solar on the roof, so electric is even cheaper.

    I suspect that electricity will be become even more cost effective than gas over the years. Gas is a finite resource and electricity is getting better and being a renewable energy with solar, wind and other technologies being developed and installed more and more.

    • atris17 on 28/05/2017 - 17:27

      Thanks, your experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated

  • sane on 28/05/2017 - 10:02
    +1

    First of all, if you are renovating, aim to improve the insulation of the place significantly. Australian building standard, particularly standards of the past, are poor. By doing so your bills for heat/cooling can be cut dramatically. In Brisbane your aim is not to need heating, and only to need cooling on the hottest days, so airtight and heat exchanger too. You're doing renovation anyway, do it right.

    In the past I would have said you need gas for certain usages, but with the way they are increasing service charges, and with the 'gas crunch' due to government incompetence, I would be inclined to look towards electric, and in particular solar with the addition/option for batteries. Cutting one of them out helps.

    Solar HW with electric boost and a well insulated tank would probably do for your hot water needs. Maybe oversize for your large family. However, it has been said that oversizing a solar PV array and using it to push the hot water as well makes economic sense.

    Electric fan oven, and induction hob also makes sense, although I think it particularly goes with batteries because of the time of day. The aim is not to use mains power, or feed into the grid unless absolutely necessary.

    • dcep on 28/05/2017 - 11:36
      +1

      i can't quite working out the the airtight insulation thingy.
      if i shut my windows tight, i get dizzy with weird dreams all night affecting my sleep.
      if i leave my windows open in winter, i'll definitely need to turn on my heater.
      how to get a balance between having airtight insulation & quality of airflow?

      as for solar thermal water heater, does it hold the heat for night shower ?
      or only useful during the daytime like normal PV.

      • sane on 28/05/2017 - 13:19
        +1

        In general airtight goes with some kind of force ventilation and heat recovery. It's not something that Australia does particularly (because the standards are so poor) but as you get towards decent insulation it becomes more important. If you look at americans, they will often test the airtightness via a blower door, and the germans - well they won't build something without tight tolerances anyway.

    • atris17 on 28/05/2017 - 17:27

      Thanks, your experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated

  • Gronk on 28/05/2017 - 13:25
    +1

    It probably depends on the particular unit but we had electric hot water (tank) at one of the places we lived in and the power bills were off the chart - $1000+ per quarter was pretty normal - it was a 1 bedroom apartment.

    Current place has gas instant, loving it.

    • atris17 on 28/05/2017 - 17:26

      Thanks, your experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated

  • ESEMCE on 29/05/2017 - 11:40

    In Queensland, I'd be installing a massive rooftop solar system like 8kW. 4kW east, 4kW West.
    Electric everything.
    Solar hot water with electric Backup.
    I'm a few years, when prices have plummeted, buy a 10kW battery storage system.
    That will essentially allow you to live off grid (although the insurance cost of staying on grid is probably worth it).
    The talk continues that Gas prices will keep going up. Even if they stay solid, you're building for at least a 20 year lifespan, so you need to think into the future.
    Battery prices are declining and will continue to do so.
    Going all electric might be marginally more expensive today, but with a battery system, and lots of solar, it'll pay for itself quickly in the future.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2017 - 12:20

      Scubascoles..Agree,

      ..except I'm thinking that large scale community batteries will be more of an option. Micro/smart grid style on the distrubted side. Rent a few kWh storage to suit your own load profile,buy extra for Christmas, sell your space when you go on holiday.

      BSaaS (Battery Storage as a Service) …will have to work on the branding :)

      • ESEMCE on 29/05/2017 - 12:36

        Can't see it happening.
        Unless the retailer you buy from introduces it.

        For a third party to get involved, they would need to be just another generation company which would involve negotiating a deal with the network utility to use their poles, wires and in most cases meters.. and with retailers to present their option to customers.

        So much easier to have a battery on your house side of the meter, so nothing flows through the meter unless your battery is flat (and you're still consuming power) or battery is full and you're exporting power).

        • Euphemistic on 29/05/2017 - 13:26

          I can see micro generation for communities working in new developments, but not so much in existing. It is easier to install it for a new development and make the first owner pay for it in the construction cost. I'm thinking a whole apartment comlex or whole subdivision powered off their own rooftops and some sort of sub-grid of batteries. Then you could have the grid connected to one point and only buy power when the batteries are low, saving on grid connect fees to individual houses.

        • ESEMCE on 29/05/2017 - 14:43

          @Euphemistic:
          Still can't even see that happening at least not for another 10 years.. or unless it's in an offgrid location and the cost of hooking up to the grid is better spent on a massive community battery.
          Too many upfront costs that Investors either need to recoup with profit charged on power sold from the batteries (profit which would be put at risk by people installing their own systems).
          or owners/buyers have to pay a premium upfront when they buy into the development putting properties in that development at a competitive disadvantage with other developments that go for a more traditional grid connection.

          I CAN see home batteries selling to other Homes in a local microgrid.
          This would be a massive plus for the Network Utility as it reduces the load on their network.

        • Euphemistic on 29/05/2017 - 15:40

          @scubacoles: 10 years isn't far away.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2017 - 15:48

          @Euphemistic:

          The country will be insolvent by then and you can kiss your subsidies goodbye. We'll be burning timber instead like Bob Brown.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2017 - 15:52

          @Euphemistic:

          Now that I've read back, this makes sense provided you don't mandate or subsidize it in any way.

        • Euphemistic on 29/05/2017 - 15:56

          @Mr Gradgrind: I can imagine it would be a good selling point to have an off grid setup. No power bills for your new home!

          You would need some smart metering installed in any shared generation system to ensure that power usage was equitable. I know my MIL's water bill does not reflect her usage, but that of all the other units in her village because there is one water meter for 50 houses and the water co splits the bill evenly for everyone. MIL gets stuck with a water bill that is equal to our 5 person household despite living alone.

        • ESEMCE on 29/05/2017 - 20:23

          @Euphemistic:
          Not much use to you today though.
          Plus in 5 years time, a home battery system will be financially logical.

        • [Deactivated] on 30/05/2017 - 10:43

          @Euphemistic:

          She is living under water Communism.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2017 - 15:31

    Install a wind turbine on your roof and shower only when windy. Also, your yard will be showered in slaughtered free range game bird which you can serve to guests as 'chicken' pie. You can then sneer at anyone utilising cheap reliable energy and anoint them with your green credentials.

    • Euphemistic on 29/05/2017 - 15:40

      Yeah, but the cows are going to stop giving milk because of the subsonic sounds emitted from the turbine, so that will offset the benefits of all the 'chicken'

      • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2017 - 15:46

        Lol….But this is for inner-city living!

        Cows fart more emissions than every coal fired power station in the country anyway. If we all switched to the free urban 'chicken' it would make the world a better place.

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