GraysOnline Purchase, Unfairly Treated ?

Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 13:21
Last edited 14/07/2017 - 20:31 by 1 other user

Hi all,

Purchased a vehicle from Graysonline via their auction and picked up the car and noticed there were few features missing from the car.
Bluetooth/Manual/Log Books were mentioned in the Advertisement as available but they did not have them. When contacted they said the dealer who sold them did not give them and I should have checked their terms and conditions for the sale before bidding.

It may not possible for everyone to inspect a vehicle before bidding, specially interstate ?

They are trying to get away with their general terms and conditions of the sale:

No Statutory Warranty or Cooling off Period applies for this vehicle. Vehicles are sold on a As is Where is basis. The booking in of this vehicle is based on an external walk around, engine start up only and was the opinion of the booking in officer - the vehicles are not driven. There may be other damage, mechanical issues or body blemishes that have not been sighted or contained in this description, therefore a full inspection is highly recommended. This description is intended as a guide only.
GST will not be added to, or included in, the price of this item. GST is the buyer's premium

Warranty
Please be advised that when purchasing a vehicle from auction you do not receive Statutory Warranty or Cooling-Off Period

Automotive

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Comments

  • bobbified on 14/07/2017 - 13:37
    +4

    There's a reason auctioned vehicles can go so cheap - it's a bit of a luck of the draw.

    Bluetooth/Manual/Log Books

    When it comes to these items, I guess the decider of whether or not you have a case if and how they specified those items in the ad. I'd say that you have a strong case if they have specifically mentioned that those items are included in the car. If it was part of a "Specifications" part of the advertisement where they've copied and pasted from the manufacturer's website and they have a further disclaimer to say that it may or may not be accurate, then you wouldn't really have a case.

    Realistically though, how much cheaper did you get it under the regular used price for that car? And how much are those three items really worth? I don't think it'd be very much.

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 13:50

      probably saved a $1000 when compared to car on carsales. the ad details mentioned they had those features and not in the specs.

  • KaTst3R on 14/07/2017 - 13:39
    +1

    There is a location and timeslot for inspection. So basically the clause covers their butt as the onus is on the bidder to do a full inspection. If you are unable to do so, it is best to not bid. By bidding, you have implicitly agreed to the clause.

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 13:45

      agree, but we would rely upon the advertisement details as not all cars can be inspected.

      • Euphemistic on 14/07/2017 - 13:50
        +2

        But it is still a gamble if you haven't seen it isn't it. If not having the log books is the worst of the problems then you are sitting pretty - it could be a dud transmission.

      • KaTst3R on 14/07/2017 - 13:52
        +1

        From what I see on the website, all cars (if not the majority) can be inspected. But since you cant do the inspection personally, it is a risk you have to take (description intended as guide only). You are lucky that there is no major damage to the car because the "As is where is" clause will force you to take whatever condition the car is in since you have accepted the contract of sale.

        You can try to complain to the ACCC, but it is unlikely you will get any resolution.

        Edit: Also in a normal 2nd hand car purchase circumstance. It is common practice to send the car to a mechanic to verify its condition. Needless to say, an inspection is necessary in this case.

      • Adz81 on 14/07/2017 - 14:00
        +2

        Graysonline all but flat out say, "DO NOT RELY ON THE ADVERTISEMENT":

        "Assets included in this sale may be used, therefore inspection is highly recommended prior to bidding. If classed as 'Used' the asset may have experienced moderate to heavy usage by consumers and have not been tested to ensure that they function according to the manufacturer's specifications. Some individual items may show signs of wear common with used items and in some instances accessories may vary from the standard (for example, software or manuals may be missing or different, no original packaging). (As per the bidders agreement that you have agreed to)Photos, descriptions and conditions reports (if any) should be used as a guide only."

        And when you say, "not all cars can be inspected" do you mean that you weren't able to inspect it in the available time, or the vehicle was not available? I've never seen one of their car/vehicle auctions without an inspection slot- however brief.

        • garetz on 14/07/2017 - 14:33
          +2

          terms and conditions do not supersede the law.

        • Adz81 on 14/07/2017 - 14:36
          -1

          @garetz: JFC, common sense should though.

  • djkelly69 on 14/07/2017 - 13:46
    +9

    ACCC says:

    You can make a complaint and ask for a refund under the Australian Consumer Law if an Australian business selling through online auction, sold you a product that:
    - misled you about features of the product or hid costs or other details from you

    Not sure how Grays run their auctions, but seems like they have a case to answer.

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 13:52

      thanks this what i read and asked them too. for days they did not answer my calls and no replies to emails. When finally got hold, i was offered an incentive. when I denied the incentive, i was being told they cannot do anything else.

      • djkelly69 on 14/07/2017 - 14:22
        +3

        Seems like pretty clear misleading and/or deceptive conduct. I would mention this to them, and that you will be going to Fair Trading/ACCC if they cannot resolve the issue satisfactorily. If they still don't play ball, talk to Fair Trading or ACCC.

        • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 14:31

          thanks mate. i tried telling them it is false advertising but they stopped responding to my calls. I have told them I will go to ACCC and they have replied back (finally) saying I can do if I need to.

        • ThithLord on 14/07/2017 - 16:25

          @rajy: A lot of commenters saying you should have done your due diligence, which is fair enough - but I sincerely hope you get help with this. Happened to me with the car I bought from a dealer - car advertised with Bluetooth, and advertised as 167,000km on the clock - turned out no BT, no AUX and had a 176,000km on the clock. Wasn't much I could do cos I apparently should have picked up on that when I inspected it!

        • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 17:37
          +1

          @ThithLord: agree I should have checked. But in my case I went with my instinct of what was on the advertisement.

      • abb on 14/07/2017 - 14:51
        +1

        i was offered an incentive

        What did they offer?

        • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 14:53

          they offered to refund the premium of $250 that I paid on the car.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2017 - 15:49

          @rajy:

          Only a $250 premium? How much was the car?

        • Kangal on 14/07/2017 - 23:13

          @sp00ker:
          Was the car $251 ?

        • Cheapskate Paul on 15/07/2017 - 19:08
          +2

          @rajy:
          I would have taken it, unless you are determined to return the car and get a refund. I doubt the log book will ever be found.

        • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 00:36

          @Cheapskate Paul: when I insisted on log books I was being told the dealer did not deliver them. I could compromise but I don't feel like I should.

    • ronnknee on 14/07/2017 - 15:54
      +3

      This. ACCC trumps whatever Grays put in their T&C.

    • spackbace on 15/07/2017 - 13:36
      -3

      Grays is probably more of an intermediary between the buyer and the dealership that sold the car.

      It's likely that the OP needs to seek a resolution from the selling dealership, not Grays

      • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 00:37
        +2

        Don't think so as there was never a real deal with another third party.

      • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 14:45
        +2

        You should get a job in the Harvey Norman warranty department

  • AdosHouse on 14/07/2017 - 13:49
    +8

    Okay my interpretation of the rules are, if the ad says that those things are included, then they should be included. No amount of seller clauses like no warranty, description is a guide only, and sold as is, gives them the right to mislead you in the description. This is not a private buy, you are buying from a licensed business, even if it is an auction. At best though they will not make you pay and they keep the car and auction it next time. But end of the day, how much of a bargain was it to you? Is the log books and Bluetooth worth more than you saved on this car?

    • trustnoone on 14/07/2017 - 13:56
      +1

      Agreed with this, those warranty and clauses are there if you want to return the item for things like change of mind, or if there was something you didn't ask (like you bought it assuming it was blue and turns out it was red because you never checked).

      But if it states something like bluetooth is included and you buy it and bluetooth is not included then I say its false advertising.

      • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 14:03
        +2

        thanks, thats exactly i am concerned with, false advertising. I normally check and verify with every purchase and on this instance relied upon advertisement.

  • JimmyF on 14/07/2017 - 13:49
    +1

    Its a buyer beware on these things, just like buying a '2nd hand car'….

    You really should be checking BEFORE bidding. You can jump up and down, but greys contracts will be well and truly tested by now.

    You also claim you can't inspect when buying 'interstate'. Well you're pretty silly to be buying ANY car sight unseen.

    Live and learn, enjoy the car for what it is. If not, sell it on and buy another!

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 14:05

      the vehicle had bids from all over the country. I don't think they all have done an inspection but they would rely on car details and advertisement. They have offered me a small incentive shows the mistake was at their end.

      • cameldownunder on 14/07/2017 - 16:07

        They have not. They are just kind to you. But good luck at the tribunal. What a huge waste of time for them and for you.

        • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 21:37

          Yeah such a waste of time.

        • Euphemistic on 15/07/2017 - 13:24

          @rajy: now you've got it. Let it go, you've got some form of compensation. They made a mistake, you made a mistake, now move on.

      • JimmyF on 14/07/2017 - 18:26
        +1

        Buying at action is a risk. The offer, is just them trying to keep you happy to go away. I'm shocked you even got that!

  • cloudy on 14/07/2017 - 14:09
    +3

    As far as I'm concerned if they say they will give a log book, then they must give a log book. All the other BS others say about buyer beware should not be relevant. Even if the log book is empty, it still should be provided if that's what it says.

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 14:11

      thanks cloudy. when raised the issue during pickup they did not bother and asked me to raise the concern with the Customer service.

  • geek001 on 14/07/2017 - 14:54
    +4

    If you have paid and picked up, there is probably not much you can do, since the transaction has gone through and you can't return the car. Otherwise, I think you might have a strong case for false advertising and can probably get them to cancel the transaction. I mean sure, there may be other issues with the car that has not been advertised, but they should not advertise something if it is not available. I mean what's stopping them from advertising the car will come with a hot blonde chick/guy, and then said sorry, "the dealer did not give them"?

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 14:58

      lol: I mean what's stopping them from advertising the car will come with a hot blonde chick/guy, and then said sorry, "the dealer did not give them"?

      I raised the concern on the day of pickup and because it was closing time they advised me to send an email rather deal with the issue on spot.

      • k-rokfm on 14/07/2017 - 15:07

        But if it didnt come with a hot blonde chick/guy you wouldnt have accepted it on pickup.. thats the difference (ie its a major reason you bought it). With something 'seemingly' as minor as logbooks, people expect them in the sale (likely not purchased if it says not included) and on pickup they can pressure them (ie: you) to chase it up afterwards - when theres not much you can do

      • cameldownunder on 14/07/2017 - 16:09

        They got you. Now they can say you ripped the blue tooth out and burned the logbook.

        • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 17:14

          haha. I have emailed them straight away when I picked up the car.

  • chumlee on 14/07/2017 - 18:22

    Depending on how much you paid you can use ACL as the car is not as advertised.

    I would get prices on how much to get Bluetooth fitted, log book and manual and ask Grays for the money or you will lodge a application with ncat

    • -.- on 16/07/2017 - 10:17
      +1

      Be careful though, not many people know this, but most of the consumer guarantees do not apply to goods sold by auction.

      In section 4 of the ACL, sale by auction is defined, where the 'person' would be the seller of the car, and the 'agent' Grays Online.

      sale by auction, in relation to the supply of goods by a person, means a sale by auction that is conducted by an agent of the person (whether the agent acts in person or by electronic means).

      The consumer guarantee about the supply of goods by description does not apply to sales by auction, as it is presumed that you should inspect all goods, when sold on an 'as is' basis:

      Section 56 Guarantee relating to the supply of goods by description
      (1) If:
      (a) a person supplies, in trade or commerce, goods by description to a consumer; and
      (b) the supply does not occur by way of sale by auction;
      there is a guarantee that the goods correspond with the description.
      (2) A supply of goods is not prevented from being a supply by description only because, having been exposed for sale or hire, they are selected by the consumer.
      (3) If goods are supplied by description as well as by reference to a sample or demonstration model, the guarantees in this section and in section 57 both apply.

      The only recourse you might have (apart from arguing that the specific term of Grays' T&Cs which pertains to the accuracy of the listed advertisement, is 'unfair' under section section 23 of the ACL, or 'unjust' under sections 4 and 7 of the Contracts Review Act 1980 (NSW)) is against Grays for misleading or deceptive conduct under section 18 of the ACL - that is a general provision (i.e. applies for the benefit of everyone) and no exclusions apply to it, apart from the 'in trade or commerce' requirement:

      Section 18(1) A person must not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.

      • MrTweek on 16/07/2017 - 15:30

        This has nothing to do with guarantee. Guarantee applies when something breaks shortly after you bought it.
        This is misleading advertisement.

        They simply didn't deliver what OP expected and what he paid for.

        Can't sell a car and then just hand over a banana and say "oh sorry, we just made an error in the ad"

        • -.- on 16/07/2017 - 17:15

          Not quite, there are actually a number of consumer guarantees, they're broken up into guarantees pertaining to supply of goods, and supply of services. Some of them are about broken items etc. (i.e. s 54 Guarantee as to acceptable quality - which is probably the one you're thinking of), but the one I quoted above, s 56 is about the good having to match its description - this is entirely relevant to OP's situation, but unfortunately for the OP, that guarantee doesn't apply through auction sales.

          Part 3-2—Consumer transactions
          Division 1—Consumer guarantees

          Subdivision A—Guarantees relating to the supply of goods
          * 51 Guarantee as to title
          * 52 Guarantee as to undisturbed possession
          * 53 Guarantee as to undisclosed securities etc.
          * 54 Guarantee as to acceptable quality
          * 55 Guarantee as to fitness for any disclosed purpose etc.
          * 56 Guarantee relating to the supply of goods by description
          * 57 Guarantees relating to the supply of goods by sample or demonstration model
          * 58 Guarantee as to repairs and spare parts
          * 59 Guarantee as to express warranties

          Subdivision B—Guarantees relating to the supply of services
          * 60 Guarantee as to due care and skill
          * 61 Guarantees as to fitness for a particular purpose etc.
          * 62 Guarantee as to reasonable time for supply
          * 63 Services to which this Subdivision does not apply

          I agree that you can't contract to supply a car, but provide a banana instead. That situation, however, would not be resolved through use of consumer guarantees (because of the auction exclusion), but under general provisions such as section 18 about misleading or deceptive conduct (which would lead to the remedies in the ACL, including damages etc.). Alternatively, under the common law of contract law, you would be able to rescind the contract under common law misrepresentation, or terminate under non-fulfillment of a condition (+ damages) (depending on whatever the parties agree in the T&Cs … from the looks of things, Grays seems to have themselves covered).

          Not saying it can't be resolved through the above, but just alerting OP that using a consumer guarantee won't help. He would definitely have some remedy through common law contract law, and possibly under s 18 of the ACL. Oftentimes in law, it's a matter of cost. If the car was only a few thousand dollars, then it will probably not be worth seeking a legal remedy. The most logical step is lodging the matter with the ACCC or ombudsman.

  • spackbace on 14/07/2017 - 20:32

    What was the car?

    Got a google cache view of the listing? (google the rego number)

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 21:33

      Yeah I have all saved up. One good thing is ok their invoice they list all details.

      • spackbace on 14/07/2017 - 21:41

        What sort of car that Bluetooth was optional?

  • spackbace on 14/07/2017 - 20:35

    Also, the minute you start dealing with ACCC or start a case, Grays can stop talking to you.
    I know from a dealership pov that's the case, and all mediation will then go through ACCC.

    • Jaff on 14/07/2017 - 21:33

      They stopped talking the moment I raised my concern. Straight away started pointing at their regular sales terms and conditions.

  • crayner on 15/07/2017 - 07:54

    The ACCC doesn't provide a mediation or dispute resolution service. They only provide advice to consumers, not assistance.

    • spackbace on 15/07/2017 - 13:37

      Colleagues have been at the receiving end of calls from the ACCC trying to sort out a resolution.

      • crayner on 15/07/2017 - 14:18

        https://www.accc.gov.au/about-us/australian-competition-cons…

        We can't:
        act on your behalf or provide you with legal advice on your rights and obligations under the law
        make formal decisions on whether a person or business had breached the law as only the courts can do this
        provide dispute resolution services between consumers and businesses.

        • spackbace on 15/07/2017 - 14:22

          Doesn't stop them trying to…

  • Aussie Smurfette on 15/07/2017 - 08:30

    It is worth a shot but I think when you pay and pick up the car you have accepted it in the condition it is in.

  • azonki on 15/07/2017 - 12:27
    +1

    @rajy, it's a terrible shame, but you have just experienced at first-hand, the exemplary integrity and customer service that Gray's offer to all their casual customers. I hope you get resolution, but I think Gray's will just wear you down until you give up.

    • Jaff on 15/07/2017 - 13:22

      Yeah, I will fight it out as much as I can. They sell 1000s of cars a year and wonder if it was just me unlucky or is their normal practise.

  • driver33b on 15/07/2017 - 13:43

    Sorry to hear of your problems….have you contacted the 'dealer' who supplied the car? Maybe they do have the log books but failed to put them in the car.

    I have seen where cars in the auctions have had a professional assessor look at the car and you can buy a copy of their report before bidding….the 1st person who contracts the 'assessor' pays about $300….each report after that is about $125??? from memory..might help next time.

  • HeWhoKnows on 15/07/2017 - 18:08

    There is a popular old saying with cars…..

    BUYER BEWARE!

    The other one is:

    INSPECT BEFORE YOU BUY

    And yes, Gaeys Online terms and conditions do apply.
    As soon as you place a bid it is implied you have agreed….FACT!

    Dont think you are in a position to take on their team of lawyers.
    Just take the car and hope for the best as you might have much bigger problems that what meets the eye!

    • Jaff on 15/07/2017 - 18:31

      implying consumers can be taken for a ride and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it ?

      • Euphemistic on 16/07/2017 - 12:13
        +1

        Nah. Grays are big enough that they wouldn't want to reduce buyers by lying. It's probably an oversight/error. They are a volume seller so it's all about keeping customers, the fact they offered you compensation is evidence they aren't in the habit of lying to customers and feel that they made an error. There's probably a whole bunch of people out there that don't really care if they get the books or not, happy they got a good price for the car they bought

    • MrTweek on 16/07/2017 - 15:35

      As soon as you place a bid it is implied you have agreed….FACT!

      Yeah, but first of all it implies that you agreed to the advertisement.
      And if the advertisement states it comes with bluetooth and a logbook, they gotta deliver it with bluetooth and a logbook.

      "BUYER BEWARE!" and "INSPECT BEFORE YOU BUY" are not laws. They don't mean anyone can fk you over and it's entirely your fault if you fall for it.

  • spackbace on 15/07/2017 - 21:00

    If the car worked out to only $1000 cheaper than the equivalent on Carsales, how was it a bargain? Now that you have to transport it back home, change the licence etc

    • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 00:31

      The car is in NSW with 6 months rego and I am in NSW. I could not find time to do a test drive and did a mistake by relying on advertising alone.

      • spackbace on 16/07/2017 - 01:15
        +1

        Sorry got thrown off by this:

        It may not possible for everyone to inspect a vehicle before bidding, specially interstate ?

        Couldn't find time for a test drive…? Cmon that's just ludicrous. How often do you throw money around?

        You were looking at $50k Audi's… If you were on this sorta budget, you should've found time to inspect the car.

        • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 01:23

          Sometimes you follow your instinct and not rules. In my case I took a gamble that I did repent. My point is the retailer should have done their due diligence instead of blaming consumers.

          The car had bids from NSW/QLD/VIC so wondering if everyone have done a test drive or just relying on ads ?

        • spackbace on 16/07/2017 - 11:12
          +2

          @rajy:

          Doesn't matter where they were buying from, they obviously gave themselves a buffer in case anything needed to be done. You kept happily bidding it up and 'won' at a price very close to retail, on a car you hadn't inspected.

          Sensing a case of buyers remorse considering how much you spent.

        • Euphemistic on 16/07/2017 - 12:14

          @rajy: most people buying from there would do so without inspections.

        • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 12:33

          @Euphemistic: that is my point. Graysonline charge a buyers premium of 15% so i would expect them to do some due diligence rather than just add things that are not in the car.

        • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 12:36

          @Spackbace: I am still happy with the price I paid but I did not like the way I was treated when I questioned about their Advertisement.

  • JOCKz on 15/07/2017 - 21:01
    +2

    You saved $1000 on a car that was interstate, i dont understand how people can take such a gamble on very little saving ? I think we all know how costly it can be for mechanical repairs, was their any savings after transport cost and new registration ?

    • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 02:57
      -1

      There were savings but not without Bluetooth and log books. The car dashboard has no option to replace Bluetooth either. The purchase was a local pickup with 6 months rego.

      I would never buy an interstate vehicle.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 06:02
    +3

    that's false advertising plain and simple. They specifically advertised Bluetooth which it doesn't have. It is not legal to then make a disclaimer *might not actually have bluetooth at all even if we said it does

  • jason101 on 16/07/2017 - 12:20
    +1

    So you bought a car from an Auction site which was sold "as is", didn't inspect it, complained about a misleading description which was intended as a guide only after your paid and collected the vehicle, were offered a $250 refund which you declined ?

    Let logical thought prevail, there is a reason cars sell for cheaper prices generally at auction than from a typical licensed dealer. You have traded reward (yours) for risk - rolled the dice and marginally lost.

    • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 12:30

      yes all cars sold are as is & I rolled the dice and lost but they cant just walk away with their "as-is" sales pitch ?

      • Euphemistic on 16/07/2017 - 20:13

        I reckon they probably do walk away with their as-is condition. There probably been quite a few that have had mechanical issues not long after being delivered to the new owner. It is the way of auctions, especially online ones

  • Stphen on 16/07/2017 - 14:46

    You think that is bad. Went to a Brisbane live auction couple of years ago. Inspect cars before auction, then after you win an auction on a car, they routinely change tyres, battery and anything else they can for crapper ones. They also take petrol out of the car and leave only enough to get to a petrol station 100 metres away. Not sure if they still do that, but at the time everyone I talked to at auction said that was the normal thing to do.

  • Plug on 16/07/2017 - 16:27

    Is there a link to the auction? As far as I remember if something is stated as being included in the auction lot then it should be there. Terms and conditions are for the purchase itself, not to cover listing errors.

    • Jaff on 16/07/2017 - 16:34

      Yes the link is still active and the invoice also has specs of the car.

      • Plug on 16/07/2017 - 16:45

        Yeah but where is it?

  • rockman117 on 04/10/2023 - 13:37

    @jaff did you have a resolution? I bought a car online and they didn't provide logbooks/owner's manual despite saying so in the ad description.

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