Germans Paid to Use Electricity While in Oz Power Prices Are 'off The Chart' WTF?

LBobot on 27/10/2017 - 15:04
Last edited 27/10/2017 - 15:57 by 1 other user

Came across this
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-26/record-wi… and http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-07/power-prices-off-the-c…

Towards the end of the article: "Earlier this year, Germany shocked the renewable energy industry by handing out contracts to developers willing to build offshore farms without subsidy."

Gotta ask ourselves what we (or maybe the politicians?) are doing wrong when we potentially should be leading the world - abundant supply of sunshine, wind and land. What do you think?

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • El Grande on 27/10/2017 - 16:12
    +54

    We should give Australia to the Germans to run. They will do a better job than us :D

    • Bobot on 27/10/2017 - 16:33
      +72

      Yeah outsource the government, we've outsourced just about everything else lol!

      • El Grande on 27/10/2017 - 16:36
        +22

        I don't mind a few autobahns popping up in Australia.

        • AlienC on 28/10/2017 - 01:14
          +40

          I for one welcome our new schnitzel loving, beer guzzling, bratwurst having German overlords.

        • El Grande on 28/10/2017 - 01:27

          @AlienC: As long as they share :D

        • AlienC on 28/10/2017 - 01:29
          +14

          @El Grande: :) what's mein is yours and what's yours is nein.

      • macrocephalic on 27/10/2017 - 16:36
        +4

        I think if we outsourced the government then they'll probably start insourcing the services again.

        • skywards on 29/10/2017 - 09:45

          You mean like IT?

      • jaimex2 on 29/10/2017 - 11:39
        +3

        I thought it was already outsourced to the British seeing all the dual nationals.

    • Oz8argain on 27/10/2017 - 17:07
      +33

      I think they tried to run a few countries back in the day, but a lot of people didn't like it. History might repeat again, you can look forward to it

      • El Grande on 27/10/2017 - 18:06
        +1

        If history repeats itself it wouldn't be the Germans taking over. It would be a certain red country up north. Oh, they are not great at running things either. I would rather the current crop of clowns keeps running the show. Hopefully, they will get better with time :D

        • Iggemo on 27/10/2017 - 20:57
          +3

          they're not, they're getting worse with time - much, much worse

        • AlienC on 30/10/2017 - 05:09

          Ze Russians? Or Ze Communists? See what I did there.

      • Ausbob on 27/10/2017 - 23:53
        +4

        Based on a reliable documentary (the man in the high castle) things would not be better.

    • Diji1 on 27/10/2017 - 17:58
      +2

      Stop voting for anyone that accepts money from corporations.

      • Iggemo on 27/10/2017 - 20:57
        +28

        so.. stop voting?

    • Lysander on 27/10/2017 - 18:55
      +5

      What a sensible idea. I have been saying this for years. Then Australia would really be the lucky country.

      Right now the only thing lucky about it is that the population has delusions about being lucky and does not realise what kind of mess the whole place is in. ;-)

    • GregMonarch on 29/10/2017 - 03:29
      +1

      Merkle's immigration policy!? NO THANKS. Put my electricity price up all they like instead.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 29/10/2017 - 11:21
      +5

      Don't worry, we'll soon be under Chinese ownership and government.

      • Other on 29/10/2017 - 17:15
        +1

        I am shocked and surprised at your comment.

        I thought we already were….

    • cameldownunder on 30/10/2017 - 09:48

      Australia should have not gone to war against the Germans, lot of people would not have died, there would be car factories in Australia, the government would be leaner, less corrupt, and Australia would rely on Solar (built in Australia ) and wind, without the need for coal. Existing coal would be converted into Petrol. No life stock export ( Check EU Animal transport tules )

  • chumlee on 27/10/2017 - 16:13
    +32

    Political donations determine government policy

    • OzzyOzbourne on 29/10/2017 - 11:21

      Absolutely

    • iDroid on 30/10/2017 - 10:06
      +2

      We don't really have a government any more. I understood that a government represents the public's interests. The thing we refer to as a government is an oligarchy sucking the public dry to serve their own business interests.

  • whooah1979 on 27/10/2017 - 16:29
    +2

    abundant supply of sunshine, wind and land.

    You forgot coal, lng and uranium.

    • El Grande on 27/10/2017 - 16:37

      Whats ing?

      • Cluster on 27/10/2017 - 16:39
        +1

        lng… Liquified Natural Gas.

      • altomic on 27/10/2017 - 16:39
        -1

        Local Networking Group

      • whooah1979 on 27/10/2017 - 16:41
        +6

        Whats ing?

        Is it an I or an l? They look the same on my phone.

        • El Grande on 27/10/2017 - 17:01

          Yeah looks like an i

        • Kangal on 27/10/2017 - 18:20
          +16

          @El Grande:

          Is it pronounced "ingdirect" ?

        • Slippery Otter on 29/10/2017 - 16:26

          @Kangal:

          Branding now changed to ING

        • ribze1 on 29/10/2017 - 21:16
          +1

          The appropriate use of caps would have helped here. LNG.

      • scrimshaw on 27/10/2017 - 16:44
        +1

        Liquefied natural gas

  • qwerty on 27/10/2017 - 16:36
    +2

    This is a myth - they got multiple projects and while some dont have subsidies others do plus they already had infrastructure and subsides from existing projects.

    https://www.windpoweroffshore.com/article/1430702/dong-enbw-…

    No new company is going in with nothing and building everything with no subsidies .

  • Cluster on 27/10/2017 - 16:39
    +9

    German power retailers may be paid to consume electricity, but will actual German power consumers get that credit? There's a huge difference between the two.

    AEMO sometimes reports negative wholesale power prices. They're rare, but at nighttime when it's very windy in winter I have seen the price dip below $0 in South Australia. Of course, actual users of electricity never see a cent of that.

    • PoorStudent on 29/10/2017 - 11:44

      Imagine generators/retailers who run a base load power station such as coal/gas which requires a minimum generation level to keep the unit stable. When wholesale prices are negative (due to wind producing more than demand), the generators will have to pay to keep their power station on! Due to this risk, obviously generators sell electricity to retailers at a premium!

    • Cluster on 29/10/2017 - 12:42
      +1

      aemo.com.au shows SA had negative power prices today between 9am and 11am. It got down to -$308.72 per MWhour. This occurred because of a combination of bright sunlight, lots of wind, and low load on a cool weekend.

  • The Monk on 27/10/2017 - 16:54
    +1

    Whilst not directly related to this my parents recently had solar installed at their house in the UK.
    Now in and of itself thats not very interesting, what makes it interesting is the price modelling they are on and the install costs etc.

    They paid zero for the install of the panels, they pay zero for their usage of electricity as they produce more than they use, even with oil heaters on the majority of the time. their only cost is the "service" charge from their energy retailer.

    How it works is, once they go past having supplied more than they have used to the grid, the install company generates revenue from the extra energy they put back onto the grid. This is government subsidised (dont know the subsidy) but it seems like a win/win for consumers, the solar installers and decreasing the dependency on fossil fuels.

    • Sira on 28/10/2017 - 23:05
      +2

      Problem is, the vast majority of power usage occurs during times when the sun isn't shining. We had the exact same thing in place, however it's quickly become apparent to the government that this isn't a solution. Don't get me wrong, it helps and I fully support it. However it isn't really a great solution without proper storage methods (which local/state/federal govts are working on).

      • OzzyOzbourne on 29/10/2017 - 11:25

        We have solar and time the washing machine, dryer, dishwasher and reverse cycle ac (heat or cool) to operate during the day. Reduced both electricity and gas (in the winter) bills enormously.
        Also have a 1kw off grid system and batteries to power the lighting, nas, tv, security system etc at night.

  • RockyRaccoon on 27/10/2017 - 17:05
    +2

    Simply put OP

    Problem is that Electricity supply isnt just that simple.

    Nor is life….

    Having plenty of land is also what Arabic countries have, but food cant be produced there.

    Did you also realise it's cheaper to ship our LNG to Singapore from the West and then ship back to the East coast, that to ship directly?

    • Bobot on 27/10/2017 - 20:07
      +3

      Yes yet another fail in our global competitiveness. We need to turn this global uncompetitiveness around or our future generation will pay the price.

    • HighAndDry on 07/11/2017 - 16:27

      Yup. The biggest issue about Australia is really size and population density. Too much of the former, not enough of the latter.

      Same issue that kills cost-benefit for a lot of infrastructure rollouts like fiber (and I'm a huge fan), high speed rail (also a huge fan), and in this case, energy generation and distribution.

  • Oz8argain on 27/10/2017 - 17:09
    +1

    I think locals gets to go to uni for free in Germany, not 100% sure

    • Stewardo on 27/10/2017 - 17:20
      +4

      I think foreigners can go to uni free in Germany too, and study in English,

      • Looking4Bargians on 27/10/2017 - 17:22
        +1

        Even you can do Medical study there free as foreigners but you have to do all study in German.

        • Lysander on 27/10/2017 - 18:59
          +1

          @Stewardo:

          That's mainly for scholarships.

          And what is said above is only true for a few programs unless you are an EU foreigner (and in many cases you must have lived in a place beforehand for some years to qualify even as an EU foreigner).

          However, Germany has woken up to this and there are plans to introduce significant fees for non-EU citizens. I think they have already started with people from Turkey.

          Plus, not so many undergrad programs in English and the few postgrad ones are highly competitive between the Germans themselves and EU foreigners. Plus Brexit has resulted in an enormous influx from the UK to get a cheap, high quality education while it is still possible.

          Source: Work/Personal experience (of living, studying, and working there)/Consulting in this area

        • Lysander on 27/10/2017 - 19:02

          For studying medicine there are quite significant hurdles to jump through.
          Even as a German you only get a place with a GPA average of 1.5 or better (with 1 being the best and 6 being the worst). And the GPA is over two years and about 13-15 subjects.
          For anyone interested, it is called the Abitur and is "lots of fun" for locals, let alone foreigners.

        • Stewardo on 27/10/2017 - 19:24
          +2

          @Lysander:
          Danke, I’ve now been schooled by a German. (For free)

        • Lysander on 27/10/2017 - 19:37

          @Stewardo:

          Mate, you are making assumptions - not everybody who lived, worked and studied in Germany is German! Or else a lot of Americans would be German. ;-)

    • Brendoo on 28/10/2017 - 14:26
      +11

      This is correct. I used to live in Germany and I work for a very large German company.

      The German Govt are extremely smart. By making uni free (this includes masters and phd degrees) they make their population much smarter, make their economy much more powerful and bring in so much more money for their country and have less people on welfare.

      They heavily support local manufacturing and job creation for their people.

      The government also skilfully regulate the cost of living, in particular property and rent prices.

      Labor laws are absolutely fantastic, working conditions are weighted towards employees. Jobs are largely protected from outsourcing too.

      And beer is ridiculously cheap.

      Most homes have solar. Wind farms are everywhere.

      Australia can learn a lot from Germany. To sum it up they run the place with common sense.

  • Candour on 28/10/2017 - 08:41

    a lot of hypocrisy and lies from our political and business leaders created this and other exploitative 'norms' based on the 'free' market economies where these fascists secretly control the political process and lobby for business favours at the expense of disorganised citizens. We follow the great traditions of Prince John, the Sheriff of Nottingham, The fat Abbotts, and don't even pretend we respect the greatest good for the greatest number.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/10/2017 - 09:00

    Interesting to see what fools we're treated like by our government,
    or is it our corporate masters.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/10/2017 - 15:55

    On the subject of electricity I subscribe to a news letter from this site:
    http://www.escosa.sa.gov.au/
    Everybody and his dog seems to be applying for a generating licences in putting up wind farms and Gov agencies installing their own generating plants, plus the big shopping centers installing sola panels on their massive roofs.
    So much for Government controlled and helping the consumer with rising tariffs.
    This Commission gives the green light for the suppliers to up their rates.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/10/2017 - 19:21
    +2

    What do you think?

    We just seen a former leader tell a room full of people that climate change is doing good for the planet. These are the retards we put into power.

    So afraid of boogeymen "boat people" and imaginary grievances against "political correctness gone mad" we've created the perfect environment for the lowest common denominators to grab power and screw us all in the process. I have never been so disillusioned with politics than I am right now. Frankly, I probably won't ever bother voting again. I will just pay the fine or make up bullshit as to why I didn't vote.

    • mavis30551 on 28/10/2017 - 22:51

      Or you could vote for the Political party that is Pro environment.

      Not sure what to say about the boat people issue
      Both party's seem pretty on throwing human rigths and refugees under the bus for political browny points.

      • [Deactivated] on 28/10/2017 - 23:24
        +2

        The Greens? While my political philosophy often aligns with theirs (left of centre/progressive/liberal, what have you), their (profanity) base puts me off.

        I don't know, every Greens voter I meet seems like a self-righteous (profanity).maybe I am just meeting the wrong ones.

      • Filbert on 29/10/2017 - 09:28

        But you vote for the Pro environment and they don’t get enough votes so your vote is redirected through preference to candidate B and then maybe to candidate C who may be anti-environment. You really have no control of your vote.
        I think I will abstain until they get rid of preference.

        • ribze1 on 29/10/2017 - 21:18

          You number all boxes in this case, yes it's a pain but how often are elections really?

  • [Deactivated] on 28/10/2017 - 23:25

    Wind too fast the turbins go into stall or stop position, not enough wind and well the turbins cant produce enough stable supply and as such turn into the stop position.

    Solar? No generation at night.

    Goooo0o0o0oooo00ooo coal or nuclear.

    Reality hits a stable base load is needed and always be supported by wind or solar but ditching the base load is a bit gamble.

    • mctubster on 10/11/2017 - 15:43

      Primary Wind and Solar - Feeding pumped hydro storage, local battery storage, remote load shedding + last call gas turbine backup

      Job done. No coal or nuclear required

  • Shiny Mew on 29/10/2017 - 06:01

    Excepting the UK, Northwestern Europe destroys Australia when it comes to intelligent governance and quality of life. For every immigrant Australia lets in, Australia should negotiate to allow one resident to gain citizenship in Germany, Scandinavia etc.

    • whooah1979 on 29/10/2017 - 07:14

      Northwestern Europe destroys Australia when it comes to intelligent governance and quality of life

      You're right. Those Norwegians are ones Australia has to beat.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_D…

      Or is it the Swiss.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index

    • Cluster on 29/10/2017 - 12:56
      +1

      Well, the governance of some countries isn't all that rosy. Take Sweden for example. Do you like a drink? Well, any alcoholic beverage over 3.5% must be purchased from a state owned monopoly with high taxes. Some Swedes travel to Germany, Poland and Estonia to buy alcohol.

      Sweden is also destroying its culture by importing tens of thousands of young male immigrants every year who have little to no chance of finding a partner. This is creating problems.

      • philart on 29/10/2017 - 14:19

        Neither of those countries holds the record for consecutive years of economic growth. Both Norway and Switzerland are as expensive to live as here, which is hardly surprising as both countries are up there with Australia on high wages.

        There's nothing much wrong with Australia, you can tell that by the number of people who would love to move here, including the Swiss and Norwegians.

        Time to appreciate what a great place we're truly blessed to live in.

  • vinster55 on 29/10/2017 - 12:56

    Ah common man
    Build the autobahns now.

  • philart on 29/10/2017 - 14:09
    +2

    Unlike most of the developed world Australia doesn't have nuclear energy. For decades we satisfied ourselves that with all the coal we had we didn't need to have 'risky' nuclear with it's nuclear weapons arm.

    Now that coal is maligned we haven't a nuclear energy backup. France generates something like 80% of it's domestic energy from nuclear, so they won't have too much of a problem hitting their emissions target.

    When we were in Belgium recently and being driven along a motorway between places, we were astonished to see the road floodlit at night. When I commented to our Flemish friend doing the driving he said "No, not wasted energy, it comes from nuclear power stations, they can't just can't flick a switch and shut reactors off for a few hours overnight, so they offer cheap power and burn off the excess on things like motorway lights".

    Is it surprising that power is expensive here, if we can't exploit CSG, Gillard sold our sea gas production to the Japs and we can't burn our coal? Renewables are great but unreliable and costly to support.

    • Sickman on 29/10/2017 - 21:12

      They cannot switch off but they do do pumped storage where they will pump water up hill to holding lakes. Then they use the hydro power during peak demand. This 80% effient.

      • philart on 30/10/2017 - 17:54

        I'm sure it's happened, doubt that it's a widespread practice. We didn't see any hills in the Netherlands, Belgium or Northern Germany, certainly none large enough to have a lake - most nuclear power plants are by the coast, they need the water for cooling ;)

    • gorge on 30/10/2017 - 18:26

      It's not like Germany is any way relying on nuclear. Merkel's government announced that it would close all of its nuclear power plants by 2022.

  • kungfupanda on 29/10/2017 - 15:29

    Maybe too many corruptions and collusions here ….

  • gorge on 30/10/2017 - 17:22

    There are too many pointless bureaucratic positions in australia and not enough funding for more local engineering jobs to be made available.

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