Sleep Therapy - Any Experiences?

dumdidum on 23/12/2017 - 17:40

Hi guys,

I've had problems with my sleep for many years and it's only getting worse:

  • Problems getting to sleep, particularly if I'm worrying about something stressful in my life or have an event I'm nervous about the next day
  • Waking up after as little one or two hours of sleep and then not being able to go back to sleep - probably the biggest stressor
  • Even going back to sleep doesn't result in "deep sleep" but just a weird period of half-consciousness where I wake up feeling tired as hell and like I didn't really sleep at all

Just wondering if anyone out there has had any experiences with sleep clinics, sleep studies, alternative treatments, etc.?

I do not think it is sleep apnea as I am fairly fit and still in my 20s.

Honestly, it is killing me at the moment and it can't continue

Thanks

Health & Beauty

Comments

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:18

      For me, it may be caused by a number of things, but I find listening to music helps a little but not a great deal. Working out makes me tired, but unfortunately doesn't do much to make me actually fall asleep later in the day. I go very early morning.

  • Nelgsta on 25/12/2017 - 22:21
    +1

    Drinking an ocean of booze usually assists.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:10

      Asian so two beers and it's over.

  • Tuftsdude on 25/12/2017 - 23:04
    +2

    Finally, a topic I can relate to!

    I normally stay in bed awake for at least 30 mins to a few hours and it has been up to 5 hours before. I normally wake up tired except when I sleep in the morning from 8am, I wake up refreshed (no idea why), even 2 hours is enough for the whole day.

    Insomnia gets better and worse based on your mental state, from my experience. Anxiety and stress will only make it worse, so you have to tackle those problems.
    I noticed doing a physically exhausting activity during the day really helps me fall asleep unless I'm overtired from lack of sleep.

    Use the blue light filter on your phone at night and make your room as dark as possible when you want to sleep. Don't go to bed unless you feel you can fall asleep because insomniacs, unlike normal people can't always fall asleep. For me the minimum is 15 mins, but on average 40 mins till I fall asleep.

    Also try to cut down the hours of your sleep, so if you normally sleep 8, make it 7 or 6 and you should find it easier to sleep during the night.

    In regards to waking up, do you wake up with a jolt through your body like you fell from a high place or just wake up?
    If you do, just close your eyes and don't move. If you really can't go to sleep, at all, get up and do something because staying in bed trying to fall asleep is pure torture.

    Lastly, don't worry about the hours of your sleep, don't stress by looking at the time and saying "I'm only going to get 3 hours sleep", it will only make things worse. Being content will relax you and make it easier to live with the sleep you get. I only got 2 hours sleep this morning and 4 hours the day before and I feel great.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:23

      Tuftsdude, sorry to hear you are going through similar.

      Funny, my life is full of ups and downs, but my sleeping problems have persisted for so long. Which makes me think that the ups are not really ups but just momentary periods of "relief". Does that make sense?

      Yes, I am going to make a bullet point list of all the advice given in this thread, absolutely invaluable…

      I don't wake up with a jolt generally, but yes lying in my bed trying to re-sleep is pure torture. I find in that period it warps time as well, e.g. I could swear it's only been 10 min since I closed my eyes, I check my phone (bad I know) and it's 90 min later!!

      I get a lot of anticipatory anxiety from missing out on sleep, which I know I should let go of

  • Tuftsdude on 25/12/2017 - 23:11

    I just read you commented saying you have anxiety and that had always made my chronic Insomnia worse ten-fold, so I really suggest doing something about that. I highly wouldn't recommend medications though, there are other ways to overcome anxiety.

  • snivy on 25/12/2017 - 23:30

    My problem is difficulty falling asleep (I never fall asleep under 30 minutes, always jealous to those to fall asleep in 5 minutes), so I never thought I was insomniac until someone at work pointed out.

    What I do:
    - exercise, swimming. I find the water therapeutic and more relaxing than any other activities.
    - avoid alcohol at night, it sucks but I notice I sleep less after having alcohol.
    - sometimes I take valerian, it helps me get drowsy but doesn’t always keep me asleep, melatonin didn’t work for me for some reason.

    Recently I had 2 months period where I couldn’t sleep for more than 4 hours every night and I suffered so much, it stopped after I tackled the problem (which I didn’t know was affecting me!) so maybe trying to find the source of your anxiety might also help, might be something you never thought of before.

    Someone suggested that banana helps, but I’ve yet to try it, not a fan of banana so eating it every night is a torture for me, but if you don’t mind it you might try that.

    My friend did a session with sleep clinics and she discovered a lot about her sleeping habits, might be something that you seriously consider, I’m considering doing it as well.

    Thanks for everyone for posting their responses, I can take some advices too.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:30

      Glad to see this helps someone else too :)

      I feel there is definitely a mental component to this for me (root cause most likely), and may well be a physiological component as well

  • CharityCase on 26/12/2017 - 02:01

    Need sex…

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:31

      The eternal problem…

  • demonoidvn on 26/12/2017 - 03:40

    Believe it or not, I used to have the same problem and getting married solved it.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:31

      A fair way from this, but working on it

  • sleet on 26/12/2017 - 07:22

    Google sleep hygiene.

    See a sleep physician.

    Take melatonin. I take this and my mind stops racing. It is not addictive and works fantastic. Doesn't make me drowsy or sleepy but when I want to fall asleep it is much much easier.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:36

      As above, tried this and had some effect, so will continue the experiment tonight…

  • peterw1 on 26/12/2017 - 08:00
    +1

    go hiking in the woods for 5 days. getting back to nature, with a heavy load on your back should reset the rhythm and induce sleep - no electronics. Alternatively move to the northern hemisphere, maybe your body works on a different time zone. Finally record and watch parliamentary sessions, enough to induce anyone to sleep

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:36

      I was planning on listening to old university lectures :) Hiking for 5 days sounds great, but not a possibility at this moment.

  • Pungentia on 26/12/2017 - 08:41

    Sounds all too familiar.

    I would suggest
    - dark cool bedroom
    - no caffeine after midday
    - limited screen time particularly in bed
    - limit your booze intake
    - read a good book before bed
    - if you wake in the night and your brain is fixated on something, pick up a book and read until you fall asleep again
    - get a good amount of exercise in the day time
    - get plenty of sunshine in the day time see http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/how-week-campi…
    - and apparently weighted blankets make a big difference to some people https://gravityblankets.com/

    Hope it improves :)

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:38

      Thank you for the summary :)

      Weighted blankets is a new one, I'm willing to try anything!

  • syousef on 26/12/2017 - 09:21

    Contrary to popular belief, sleep apnea is not just for the old and unfit.

    Get yourself a sleep study. If you refuse to do that, set up a video camera to monitor your own sleep. If your breathing is cutting out and you're snorting like a pig, it's sleep apnea. Another tell is if you have a sore throat when you wake up.

    But sleep apnea isn't the only possible disorder and if I were you I'd get a proper in the lab sleep study done. They'll monitor your oxygen levels, brainwave activity, breathing, position you're sleeping in etc. The take home ones aren't quite as good but are going to be better than a video camera.

    If you're struggling as much as you claim don't wait to fall asleep at the wheel, get fired from your job, end up with sleep paralysis.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:39
      +1

      I'm definitely going for the lab sleep study from what people have said on this thread. I'm sure I'll have a hard time falling asleep, but shouldn't be much more difficult than it is usually, hopefully I can get the four hours minimum in.

      • syousef on 27/12/2017 - 19:50

        Good luck.

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:52
          +1

          Thank you :)

  • ChurchMouth on 26/12/2017 - 11:27

    Over the counter antihistimine "periactin" before bed works a treat (only need less than a 1/4 of a tablet). Seems to oppose cortisol, that hormone that might be responsible for wakefulness.

    Also has a long history of safety and some useful side effects of calming down bowels and increasing appetite for those who are sick.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:45

      Hmm..not going to try this one first, but will definitely keep it in mind, thanks for the suggestion! I may have tried something similar in the past but didn't think it was long term solution.

  • Hogg on 26/12/2017 - 11:59

    Hi mate,

    • Don't rule out sleep apnoea just because you're young, fit, and not over weight. While it is less likely, it's still possible.

    • Try to avoid the commercial sleep clinics. While not all sleep clinics work this way, they make a lot of their money from selling you the actual products after you've had a sleep test and you don't actually get to meet a sleep physician because you usually take the test home and the clinic sends the test away for the physician to interpret the results. Source: went to one myself.

    • It's best but possibly initially more costly to see an actual sleep physician but the great thing is because they make money from the sleep test, they're not incentivised to sell you expensive stuff for profit. Additionally, you're seeing a medical specialist.

    • Try to avoid pharmacological treatments until you've been assessed by a doctor. You don't want to become, not addicted per se, but reliant on drugs to sleep.

    • Which area are you located in? I can refer you to a well-regarded sleep physician if you're somewhere close to the clinic. Feel free to PM if you don't want to disclose your location or you can just give the general area.

    Source: Dentist who has a bit of training in obstructive sleep apnoea.

    Typing on my phone so apologies for any typos.

    Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and grabs heaps of bargains today. :)

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:47

      Thank you for the pointers, particularly the second about the commercial sleep clinics. I did not think about that one at all. Yes I would prefer seeing an actual sleep physician.

      I'm in Surry Hills, Sydney, if there's anyone nearby? Thanks so much :)

      • Hogg on 27/12/2017 - 20:53

        I'm sorry I haven't worked with any specialists in Surry Hills or city area.

        I usually refer my patients to this clinic; they're quite well-regarded.

        If you're after someone closer to you then maybe you can get your GP to refer you to a clinic with a specialty in sleep medicine.

        Avoid places like Ressleep; they really want to sell you stuff.

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 13:57

          Thanks Hogg, I might make the trip to the one you've suggested, it'll be worth it anyway if it's as good as you say.

          Cheers!

        • Hogg on 02/01/2018 - 17:07

          @dumdidum:

          Make sure you get a referral from your GP, or I can write one for you if you'd like.

          It will be cheaper to get a referral from a GP though.

          Keep me updated on how it goes. PM me if you ever want to discuss or ask any questions that you don't want to ask in public.

        • dumdidum on 05/01/2018 - 20:55
          +1

          @Hogg: Thanks Hogg - will do, really appreciate your contribution here :)

  • Blottski on 26/12/2017 - 12:04

    I did the on site sleep test

    If you suffer from lack of sleep from anxiety (esp claustrophobia), being hooked up to a million wires will not help you.

    I couldn't hack it. Got about a hours sleep when I was there. Was tempted numerous times to tear the wires off.

    • jellykingdom on 27/12/2017 - 08:35
      +1

      Yeah man, I doubt there was much useful information from my sleep study. I have never slept well in a new place, and I tend to fidget a lot while I sleep (i get uncomfortable easily), and I think i maybe slept for 2hrs and then they woke me up at 5am to send me on my way home. Didn't seem very safe, but I had to drive all the way home then slept like a log for another 7-8hrs

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:49

      I don't think the wires will be particularly helpful, but shouldn't be too much worse than any other night. Fingers crossed, but I'm willing to give it a go to shake this…

  • bich.light on 26/12/2017 - 13:28

    Firstly, I suffer from sleep apnea and I didn't expect to have it. I've had it for a long time and was only diagnosed two years ago when I was 20. I was relatively fit and not overweight. Many doctors have told me that they are surprised that I had it. They confirmed this with a sleep study and I am now on CPAP therapy which helps me sleep and breathe during the night. As a disclaimer though, I am asian and being asian means that I naturally have a narrower airway.

    Since then, I've seen various sleep therapists and undergone about 5 sleep studies including MSLT to diagnose what is wrong with myself ( still no answer as to why I get poor sleep). These sleep studies though are somewhat costly and are generally referred to by a GP or sleep specialist. You first point on contact should be a GP and asking about getting a sleep study done. This is generally the handout that I've received across three GPs regarding sleep and could be useful to you, it is from the WA govt of Health: http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Info-sleep%20hygiene.pd…

    My current sleep specialist recommends the following:
    + Sleeping at regular/consistent times EVERYDAY, including holidays or weekends.
    + No electronic devices at least 1 hour before bed, even if you use flux or whatever.
    + Regular moderate exercise 30 minutes a day, preferably in the morning and not at night as it will get your blood pumping.
    + No naps.

    Some more info about the overnight sleep test. There are generally two methods of approach to this.
    1. Taking home the test and hooking yourself up, which is generally less accurate.
    2. Doing the test at the clinic and being monitored. IF any wires pop off, they will come and put them back on you.

    For an accurate reading from the tests, they usually require you get at least a minimum of 4 hours sleep which can be difficult considering you'll be hooked up to a machine with wires. You won't be able to sleep on your stomach and sleeping on sides can be iffy as well.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:52

      Asian brother checking in right here…thank you for the link, already printed.

      I would be looking at doing the test at the clinic, don't feel there's any value in me doing it at home. Although not sure I can control myself from rolling over, maybe I should be strapped in…

      • bich.light on 27/12/2017 - 19:56

        You’ll be fine, it’s definitely uncomfortable and technically you can roll over… but your body will learn it’s wayyyyyy to uncomfortable to go on your stomach or side and will naturally go on your back

    • Tangenyahu on 28/12/2017 - 00:54

      Actually, most people have no issues sleeping on their side or their front with all the monitoring equipment on. I've seen people sleep in all sorts of positions in the 10+ years that I've worked in a sleep lab, including half hanging off the side of the bed. And you don't have to have a min amount of sleep; as long as we see you in all stages of sleep, and in the positions that you usually sleep in (so if you don't sleep on your back at home, for example, we don't really want to see that because that's not a reflection of your usual pattern), you can come up with a pretty good diagnosis.

      A good lab will also have good staff who will try and make things as painless for you as possible, so if you're in discomfort or in pain about something, the staff will accommodate you (to a reasonable extent). Bad labs are a dime a dozen, of course.

      Having said that though, I work in a adult public hospital (which is accredited and highly regarded), so I'm not sure what private labs are like.

      Also if you're Asian, then chances are you will have sleep apnoea—unfortunately Asian men, even skinny, healthy, fit, young ones, are incredibly prone to getting sleep apnoea. It's a physiological thing.

      • bich.light on 28/12/2017 - 09:22

        Quite the different feedback from the other 3 sleep technicians I’ve spoken to in regards about front side sleeping. The side is okay but it isn’t comfortable.

        • Tangenyahu on 30/12/2017 - 00:21
          +1

          Well it's of course easiest for everyone involved with supine sleep, but you know, when you fall asleep, the position that you gravitate towards isn't really something that you can fully control. Otherwise a lot of people would be sent home with advice not to sleep on their backs and be ok without CPAP—many people have positional OSA, that is to say, their sleep apnoea is only significant when they sleep on their backs. We tend to see a lot of people who sleep on their fronts, and also in the foetal position.

          A sleep study is not comfortable unless you tend to sleep with lots of wires attached to you, which, surprisingly, not the case with most people! However, it can be done, and in the grand scheme of things, it's really only for one night …

  • Clarafina on 26/12/2017 - 14:37

    My 20 years of insomnia was cured after 3 visits with a sleep psychologist so I can really recommend that! I also saw a Sleep physician to have a sleep study to rule out other things, which I would recommend doing if the psychologist isn’t enough.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:53

      I think I will try the physician first, then the psychologist (who I have seen for other issues). I'm glad it has helped you, how did we let it go on for so long?

      • Clarafina on 27/12/2017 - 23:02

        Make sure they are a sleep psychologist, not just a regular one. My sleep psychologist was affiliated with the sleep physician which was helpful. Overall I found the psychologist much more helpful than the physician who was overly keen to prescribe further medications rather than actually fixing the underlying problem.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/12/2017 - 16:42

    Adds a bit to the above, I think -

    Following is general and unrelated to any real physiological problem that you may actually have, despite being only 20. The sleep apnoea business is certainly something that you need to explore as a possible cause.
    This is also aside from the possibility that you may just need a regular pattern of exposure to bright (outdoor/genuinely bright) light, from early in the day, in order to set/reset a proper diurnal rhythm that will work for you. Giving your pineal gland some cues that it can actually work with, without the need for supplemental melatonin, isn't exactly a bad idea if you can swing it.

    That said.

    Everyone (truly) has been through periods of sleeplessness relating to your first bullet-point. Worry, racing mind, somehow forgetting that sleep, and dreams, better those, lessen those.

    I haven't experienced any of that as a basis for insomnia for a very long time, so hope for you. When I was a kid, I always needed complete quiet and darkness to sleep. Now, quite literally, I can sleep in just about any circumstance, when sleep is needed. Things can change!

    After waking from that hour or two of sleep that you are sometimes getting, instead of lying there trying - and eventually getting back to a wretched semi-sleep - at least force yourself, immediately after waking, to getting up and have a wee, even if you are absolutely sure that you don't need one. The revelation for me as to how effective that was at averting the back-to-sleep/semi-sleep/wake-up-feeling-trashed, sleep, thing, was really quite something.
    At least give that a go. May help.

    Some other things above no doubt worth a try, but few things better than an orgasm, if that's feasible for you, solo or otherwise. (In a reply above, you indicate other than effective for you, but combined with really tired, and not wired?) Can also serve to wake you up on the other side if inclined to then wake up as horny as hell!

    Rest your eyes and breathe deeply as often as you can during the course of the day, until you can get past all of the sleep-deprivation that you are enduring. Unless you are dealing with a very fundamental glitch, it is most likely something that will resolve itself, at some point. With hope for that,
    & for this

    Best of luck with it all.
    :-)

    P.S. You could also just be a young Nightowl in the making! ◉_◉

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:01
      +1

      Actually meant to say I'm still in my twenties, barely, few months to go before my 30th…

      Yes, I think the old routine leading to semi-sleep is definitely not getting me anywhere, so I will get up and just do something to make myself busy and hopefully tired enough again to re-sleep properly.

      Haha, well solo at the moment but will give it a try or a few more tries ^_^

      I plan on taking up meditation again as I have already done some deep breathing exercises in the past and found them very helpful.

      Thank you for your well wishes, that picture is calming in and of itself!

      • BatmanBeer on 28/12/2017 - 12:14
        +1

        Sorry I’m late to the party. My gf used to be a very light sleeper/ finds it hard to sleep straight away/ can’t sleep anywhere else that isn’t home / will wake at the sound of anything. I introduced her a method that I use to fall asleep, which I actually obtained from an unknown iPhone app that I no longer remember from 8 years ago.

        The idea is to lie down on your back when you’re in bed, every limb just in a comfortable position by your sides etc. and literally just one-by-one, relax all your muscles. Start with your brain, try to feel it relaxing, then relax your eyes, ears, jaws, then neck, shoulders, upper arms, forearms, moving all the way down to your toes. The feeling you should be getting is like you are sinking into the bed, your body getting heavier. If you find it hard, take slow deep breaths, and every time you exhale, let everything go and feel that muscle just sink.

        It was a bit hard for her to figure this out(especially when I kept telling her to ‘literally just let everything go’ -long before frozen came out lol). A week later, she can fall asleep well, sleeps like a log, and you can’t wake her up without a good shake. The side effects of this method that I introduced is that because you now have relaxed everything in your body, your mouth may open and your eyelids might be also slightly open, giving the appearance of a dead person. I think the trade off was worth it though.

        Give it a go! It can also help when someone’s by your side at night and guiding you through relaxing each muscle. Let me know how you go!

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:01

          Thank you this is a new one - will definitely give this technique a try! Doubt I'll be sleeping like a log, but if it helps to fall asleep :)

  • anastasiastarz on 26/12/2017 - 18:22

    Have you tried writing it all down before going to bed? I found that helpful especially if there was something bothering me.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:03

      Totally understand the benefits of this, and will look at implementing it. Not just with worries, but other things such as goals.

      Funny, always seem too busy to spend time on the things that matter the most, and on things that will make the most difference.

      Thank you :)

      • anastasiastarz on 27/12/2017 - 23:02

        I love the weekly (52) review journals at Kikki K, though they have daily too. Use as a template to go DIY. ;)

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:02

          I actually was gifted a 3am journal recently :)

  • twoface41face on 26/12/2017 - 19:28

    Try yoga. Take a couple of lessons to get the idea of it. You may find that you really enjoy it. I did it for a year and man was it beneficial. I was only sleeping lightly and felt like I hadn't slept when waking up but afterwards it was quality sleep and I found my body and mind we super refreshed.

    I'm a male in my twenties.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:05
      +1

      My workmate has suggested this, and I think I will take her up on her offer.

      I did it sometime in the past, and found it amazing what could be achieved in such a limited space in a room.

  • brawndo on 26/12/2017 - 19:38
    +1

    Exercise every morning (jog/walk is fine) and ensure you get exposure to sunlight at this time of day. It will help your body adjust to sleeping at night.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:05

      Tick on both, walking half an hour to work each day and then another 30 minutes in the gym.

      Almost getting too much of a tan now with summer!

  • Jaskie on 26/12/2017 - 21:45

    Go do a sleep study. It was one of the best things I've ever done and it has completely changed my life. The night for the sleep study was counted as a hospital stay so only had to pay the excess as a part of private health insurance.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:11

      Have the PHI, so good to know that it can be counted as a hospital stay. After all, we are on Ozbargain!

  • MagicOZ on 26/12/2017 - 21:51

    Best time I have good sleep is when I have very tired day of physical and mentally activities. Also try fooling your brain, best way I found is to sit and dark room with no light on, and no way to see that time the clock show, isolate yourself.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:12

      I have removed my clock from the room, now must keep my phone further away than arm's length - the temptation is always there!

  • snajper on 26/12/2017 - 23:08

    I had similar problem to you where at one stage i did not sleep for 17 days straight. Tried different sleeping tablets with little result… what worked for me is the blackmore anti stress formula in brown bottle…
    One in the morning and one in the afternoon and that has adressed the room cause of the problem after 5 days.

    Valerian and all the other natural remedies didnt work

    Good luck and i hope you find somethIng that works for you

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:15

      I think I have tried this one in the past as well, but will make a note and see if I can pick it up next time at shopping.

      I've actually tried a whole lot of them, Nature's Own Rest & Restore, magnesium, melatonin, Phnergan, some anti-depressants, the list goes on…

      Thank you for your well wishes, I hope your sleep is completely sorted now :)

  • belongsinforums on 27/12/2017 - 00:16

    Could it be perhaps entirely stress related? If so, target the stress!

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:16

      Yes, need to sit down and think at length about this one. As someone suggested above, I think writing it down will be very helpful.

  • Toph Beifong on 27/12/2017 - 00:34

    OP you are very much like me, on most nights I would get 0 hrs of sleep and on the occasional night I might squeeze in 2 or 3 hrs. I have a very bad habit of lying in bed for 8 hours straight and not getting up- its absolute torture.

    I have recently done a sleep study and had an appointment with a psychologist who specialises in sleep.
    The sleep study did not go well at all because I slept for about 15mins during the study. However the psychologist diagnosed depression and social anxiety and has recommended CBT to manage it saying that it is the most effective drug-free method of treatment. Whether or not anxiety is the root cause of the insomnia I am unsure but it is definitely a factor and it can be treated.

    As well as being anxious during the day, I was anxious about sleep at night time because I was afraid of going to bed; "oh no its going to be one of those nights again!". This sort of approach and way of thinking about sleep does not help and I am trying some relaxation techniques like yoga and deep breathing exercises to combat this.

    Temazepam, Benzodiazepine, Melatonin, Swisse Sleep - nothing works for me, I agree with you and believe that one should fall asleep naturally instead of relying on drugs which may eventually become addictive.

    The advice given by many of the posters above (some have mentioned that their area of expertise is sleep science!) is spot on and is exactly what the sleep specialist told me when I attended my sleep study. I am trying to adopt as many of these measures into my daily routine as possible but its a lot to absorb!

    OP you need to think positive about your life and not dwell too much on your sleeping problems. Insomnia is something can be treated and I am glad that you have sought help and spoken about it sooner rather than later.

    Feel free to message me if you would like to talk about this a bit more.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:23

      Hey dfk, thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, it sounds very similar to what I go through on a daily basis.

      I did a CBT course for my anxiety for 8 weeks, and the tools that you mentioned were all an integral part of anxiety management. I have to be honest and say I've never been disciplined enough to holistically address all the issues I have. As you said, it's a lot to absorb. I have had a few changes in my life recently and I feel like now is the time to tackle the problem head-on.

      I only ever take benzos when I am absolutely desperate for sleep or have something important on the day after - even then it only results in an additional few hours and I don't really wake up feeling myself.

      I'm not sure if 10 years is sooner haha, but I very much appreciate your offer, I will go and do a sleep study and see what the results are, and maybe pick your brain afterwards?

  • Godric on 27/12/2017 - 06:51

    Invest in a gel top memory foam pillow, it's a game changer

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:17
      +1

      Another thing I will look into, thank you for the suggestion, so many ways to tackle a problem!

  • sep1 on 27/12/2017 - 06:55

    I find working out helps me a lot with sleep, it makes me tired enough to go to sleep easily and if I wake up in the middle of the night, I can go back to sleep just fine.

    Best time to do it would be mid-day. If done in the morning, it will kill productivity and may lead to a nap before bed time. If done close to bed time, it will take some time before you can calm down and go to sleep. Obviously this all depends on fitness level and intensity, an afternoon walk probably won't cut it unless it's 5+ km and up a hill for example.

    • jellykingdom on 27/12/2017 - 08:34

      ^^ this

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:25

      I work out early morning (weight training) and walk to work, and do feel tired enough to nap (don't succumb to this though generally), but I don't think it affects my productivity as my body, hell of a thing, seems to have adjusted to the lack of sleep.

      Unfortunately this adjustment has also perpetuated the lack of sleep as well..

      • sep1 on 27/12/2017 - 22:32

        Have you tried cardio? I find it difficult to hit the spot with weights because of the considerable amount of recovery time required between sets. Can't get the heart rate to satisfactory levels.

        Running at an uncomfortable pace for an hour or so usually does the trick for me.

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:03

          I've not tried cardio because of my knee problems - I know I can use an exercise bike or rowing machine but the gym I use doesn't have those (more of a weights room at work). I do walk quite a lot but the heart rate doesn't quite get up there…

  • usbc activist on 27/12/2017 - 09:46

    Reading is a good way to fall asleep. Don't read crime and mystery that makes you turn pages in anticipation, but nonfiction is pretty useful. Get a book of topic that is of reasonable interest to you, you will enjoy the book and at the same time will be yawning after some time.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:34

      I haven't read a book in years, and unfortunately the ones I do read (sci-fi/fantasy) do indeed have the page-turning effect on me :)

  • kangaroo on 27/12/2017 - 12:09

    Things that work for me

    1. Get up early in the morning like 6AM
    2. Keep your bedroom nice and airey
    3. No leds from Computer, Phones etc
    4. Do some exercise during the day, cycling is my choice of activity as it takes away the stress
    5. Reduce sugar intake in the evening
    • smuggler on 27/12/2017 - 12:38

      Don't drink coffee (obviously) and avoid green Tea and normal black tea in the night

      • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:36

        No caffeine of any sort usually, maybe just the odd black tea in the morning, but definitely make it a rule nothing after midday.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:39
      +1
      1. Yes, 7am
      2. Renting, this is not a possibility haha, but I have just brought in a fan
      3. Going to only use these outside and keep my bedroom in the Stone Age (hopefully can stick by this one)
      4. Walk to work and gym - tick
      5. Haven't thought about this one, but as I'm getting older tend to avoid more of the sugary drinks anyway. Still a sucker for chocolate though…maybe mornings only.

      Thank you for the list.

  • thriftybunny on 27/12/2017 - 12:46

    Restavit works for me, each dose puts me to sleep for about 4 hours… I researched about it and doesn't sound like the side effects are bad, even with long term use.

    If you have a lot on your mind, go on a trip somewhere foreign, a change of environment might help you with resetting your mind.

    Good luck!

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:40

      Will note that one down as possibility, thank you for the suggestion.

      I have done quite a bit of travel in the last few years, I seem to have cured the travel bug, but not much else unfortunately. Although jet lag results in me getting a good night's sleep for one night, due to pure exhaustion. Probably a too extreme version of what others have suggested above ;)

  • SoleSister on 27/12/2017 - 13:14

    I had sleep problem for almost 10 years, being difficulty falling asleep and often waking up in the midnight then could not fall sleep again, being panic and Worried about tomorrow, not so positive, living in a fear, sometimes I woke up in the midnight by my panic heart beat thought it was earth quaking. I clearly know that those symptoms was resulted from my ex who constantly stalks, threats and makes trouble for years. I went to counsellor and mental healthy clinic, it did not help much.
    I tried a lot of treatments and finally I fixed the problem myself. There are some of my solution:

    • Install a podcast/radio app in your mobile, and listen to something you would like to learn before bed, remember set "Auto stop". Music does not work on me so I listen to TED Talks, or some knowledge that help improve myself.

    • be positive, appreciative and cherish what you have. I often tell myself, life is consist of 80% of tough time and 20% of good time. Think more of the 20% of goodness and do not let the 80% drag you down.

    • do not drink coffee or tea, even in the morning;

    • good routine, do not stay in front of computer or TV at night.

    • do not try wine before bed, not even a little bit red wine. It will may help you sleep for short hours, but you will wake up in the midnight, then cannot fall asleep again.

    • do not read interesting book before bed, believe me, it will only kill your sleep;

    • do not drink cold drink or milk before bed, it will only refresh you; You can drink some warm milk, but do not drink too much, otherwise, you will need go to toilet in the midnight. :)

    • do not have hot shower before bed, it will only excite you;

    By the way, now I have no sleep problem anymore and can drink coffee in the morning. :)

    Hope these help you.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:48

      Thank you for sharing your experience SoleSister.

      I can't attribute it to any one thing or event in particular, but I think it stems from my overall anxiety, sometimes depressive nature and just a general dissatisfaction with my life in general.

      My main take-away from what you have said is to be positive, thank you for that :) It is easy to forget sometimes, but even being in this country is already something to be thankful for.

      I am glad to hear your sleeping issues have been resolved, hopefully I will follow suit in the not too distant future

  • conan2000 on 27/12/2017 - 13:31

    One thing I did a few years back, which definitely helped me get to sleep quicker was altitude training. Strapped up to a machine that simulates being at about 7000m (i.e. less oxygen). It's designed to make your heart and lungs more efficient, but had the side effect of improving my sleep dramatically.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:42

      Hopefully don't have to resort to this, but will keep it in mind, thank you.

      On a side note, I did the Inca Trail a few years back, not sure if my sleep was any better, but I do remember feeling great at the end of each day :)

  • shaiguy on 27/12/2017 - 15:48

    Some really good suggestions on here. I think as above checking it is not a physical issue is the first step. Based on my own experience, the following has worked:

    • cutting out caffeine (I have cut it out completely for the past 15 years except for tea). I have accidentally not ordered a decaf and not been able to sleep the whole night.
    • try and keep a structure, i.e. sleeping at exactly the same time and doing the same routine before bed
    • no electronic devices right before you sleep which may stimulate the brain
    • mindfulness apps which include meditation are good
    • regular exercise
    • not having a big meal for dinner (particularly if you're older this may become an issue)
    • I am a very light sleeper and cannot sleep with noise/movement etc. (usually on first night of a hotel stay it is tough for me). Even when I am exhausted or bored I can find it tough to sleep. I got suggested with some alternative solutions on health in general and funnily enough I fell asleep in a salt room (you are not supposed to use electronic devices in there) - and it was actually a very deep and refreshing sleep. A bit off topic but I think a lot relates to the mind.
    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:52

      Thanks for the list shaiguy. I already pretty much abstain from caffeine, but my electronic addiction needs work on ;)

      Routine, structure, discipline - this is such an deep seated issue it should have been more obvious to me from the beginning that I needed an organised approach to manage my sleep issues.

      I am an extremely light sleeper, who has taken to wearing ear plugs or even ear muffs at night to block out the noise. But I know this is not a long-term solution.

      The salt room sounds interesting - who would have thought? I will add it to my list of alternatives, which is now about two pages long!

      • shaiguy on 29/12/2017 - 11:16

        All the best. I was very skeptical re the salt room (look out for vouchers). Oddly enough I would go at lunchtime (for a brain break when very busy) and it was very relaxing.

    • DiscoJango on 28/12/2017 - 08:54
      +1

      interesting point about not being able to sleep the first night in a hotel: this is actually your bodies defense mechanism: you are highly vulnerable (asleep) in an unknown location. so your body wants to keep itself alert in case danger approaches. therefore you dont sleep well the first night. after a few nights, your body realises you are not in danger and then allows you to sleep well.

      • shaiguy on 29/12/2017 - 11:17

        Thanks for the insight DJ. It is always interesting what the body and mind is doing subconsciously.

  • cap1 on 27/12/2017 - 23:00

    Sleep stories on the 'calm' app have really helped me get to sleep many times. It's worth the subscription (they have deals occasionally). The app also has great meditations but the sleep stories are wonderful, it deserved it's 2017 app of the year on the apple App Store award.

    • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:07

      Will give it a try, cheers

  • captaincabinets on 28/12/2017 - 00:44

    Try guided meditation, it worked for me and a friend reported that it helped him too. Easier than meditation.

    • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:08

      Are these the instructionals? I've had a look and there are plenty on Youtube and plenty of apps too. Thank you for the suggestion.

  • Unbreakable on 28/12/2017 - 02:13

    Hey man, i'm in a similar situation, on a whole load of sedatives, it's to personal to share here, but DM and we'll talk about it.

    • MrBillions on 28/12/2017 - 03:01

      Looks like they are not working.

      • Unbreakable on 28/12/2017 - 09:58
        -1

        Hard to say really mate..

        Have bad days have good days, but at least when it's back there is an end game where I take the valium or xanax or whatever and end up sleeping it's a matter of self control for me.

  • MrBillions on 28/12/2017 - 03:01

    Light exercise during the day. Eg walking.
    Then you don't have problems. It works for me.

    • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:12

      Unfortunately not helpful for me. I walk a moderate amount each day, say 5-10km, and I enjoy that time but not hugely impactful…

  • kenunderscore on 28/12/2017 - 05:01
    +2

    I know you mentioned that you are fairly fit so this is merely an anecdote of my own experience. Through the last 8 years of my life I too endured everything you mentioned. Experimented with medications, meditation, tricks, music etc. with no results. Before I decided to visit a specialist and have a 'sleep test', I conveniently decided it was time to start exercising and eating a proper and well-balanced nutritional diet. Within one week of training at the gym my sleep benefited greatly in every way: Only need 6 hours of sleep to get through the day without feeling the slightest bit tired or feel the need for a nap - 8 hours feels great btw, don't feel tired after eating a large meal anymore, don't need to start my day off with coffee (was drinking about 2-3 a day), can fall asleep on command without needing to leave a movie on, actually feeling well-rested instead of groggy after a 30 min power nap if i take one. That's the gist of it.

    If you aren't already, I highly recommend exercising at least 4 days a week to consider yourself "highly active" and eating a well balanced diet according to national nutrition standards eg. x amount of servings of red meat/fruits/veggies. If you can truly say you have done this and are still experiencing what you have mentioned, then its safe to conclude that this is a separate issue that needs to be addressed via the use of medication (such as melatonin) or sleep aids.

    ~ Don't sweep the problem under the carpet with the use of medication or expensive treatments. Try a natural approach first.

    Goodluck!

    • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 14:18

      Thank you :)

      No intention of using medications long term, but just to get by for the time being or when I'm really desperate.

      I don't have the greatest diet (I just eat a lot ;)), but I do exercise (4 or 5 days a week), don't drink coffee at all, and would absolutely relish 6 hours of sleep a day!

  • mobius on 28/12/2017 - 07:08

    This seems the most obvious but gets overlooked because we always want answers and solutions;

    Stop thinking about it!

    Also smoke pot.

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