New Car - Unexpected Fees and Delays

After almost being deceived into buying a base model for the price of a higher end model last week, I decided to purchase a brand new car with no problems and no surprises.

But, alas, there're different issues this time around. So I went it a Mitsubishi dealership to purchase the Outlander, did a test drive liked it, talked to the finance guy and got the details. I asked him twice if there're any hidden costs and he said nothing at all. Agreed on a price and delivery date, shook hands, signed the contract, paid the deposit.

Now after 2 days suddenly things have changed:

1) There's suddenly a $398 "Establishment fee" on top of the $750 "Dealer Admin Fee" (which was $700 when I asked multiple times). So thats approx $448 more than I expected.
2) The delivery date mentioned on the contract is 24 April and was also confirmed several times but now suddenly they "can't confirm, looks like early next week".

W.T.F.

Now I understand that since I signed the contract on Friday, I can exercise my cooling off right but I stand to lose $400 (plus the establishment and admin fees? hope not) just because the payment is made?

I'd thought a new car purchase would be a fond memory but its turning out to be quite the opposite. :(

Now the questions I have are:

1) If I cancel the contract during the cooling off period do I pay just 400 or 400 + dealer admin fee + establishment fee + what not?
2) Has the finance guy advised me right that I prepay as much as I want, cancel the direct debit and keep the $10 until the end of the term to avoid early termination fee?

Thanks!

Comments

  • +5 votes

    1) There's suddenly a $398 "Establishment fee" on top of the $750 "Dealer Admin Fee" (which was $700 when I asked multiple times). So thats approx $448 more than I expected.

    i guess you are getting finance?
    so its probably $398 for the finance/loan fee, plus $750 for dealer delivery.

    2) The delivery date mentioned on the contract is 24 April and was also confirmed several times but now suddenly they "can't confirm, looks like early next week".

    you have upto 30 days from this date for them to deliver to you.

    •  

      1) When I asked him he said just "$700" not even 750 and no mention of establishment fee. I asked him if there are ANY other costs and he said NO. I consider this lying! I also asked him about the breakdown multiple times he said its only available AFTER the finance is approved.
      2) Its not mentioned anywhere in the contract.

      •  

        whats your invoice/quote state?

      • +2 votes

        So .. is the total price of everything the same price that you agreed and signed the contract on?
        If so, then it's all okay.

        Dealership people have their way of categorising charges for here and there and whatever.
        As long as the total price is what you signed up for then I think it's okay.

        •  

          No, I signed the paper that said the price is 29150 thats what we agreed. But then the finance guy added on his 750 + 398.

        •  

          @3zzy:

          Okay so you signed for the car 29150.
          Went to the finance guy and … signed the papers for the finance amount and a few days later he's like BOOM here's more charges?

        •  

          @FoxJump: Thats right, I asked him 1) about any hidden costs he said NOTHING 2) asked him about the details in writing he said he cant have it until approved. and yes.. few days later more charges.

        • +2 votes

          @3zzy:
          Afaik cars sold with finance from the dealer are subject to finance being approved?
          With finance you also get cooling off periods I think.

          So … you signed a contract for finance. If that did not state those fees. Then don't pay the fees.
          They can then decline your finance and the sale would have to be rescinded.
          It is not reasonable to sign for a finance without sighting the PDS and TCs.

          Your credit rating may take a hit - dunno.

        • +2 votes

          @3zzy:
          Also, if you are not happy with the behaviour of the dealership, complain to Mitsubishi on facebook or their customer service line of head office.

        •  

          @3zzy:
          With finance, details can be difficult to provide up front, esp since the interest rate may vary according to your credit rating or how they feel on the day.

          But surely, whatever you signed at the finance dude must have mentioned something of what you're actually signing? Or something about your rights?, etc?

          NB: I've never bought a car with dealership finance so I cannot be sure what to expect.

        •  

          @FoxJump: But that also means they'd keep a portion of my deposit.

        •  

          @3zzy:
          Well… If you rescind your purchase yes.

          If your finance is not approved because you didn't want to pay their fees - I don't know what hat it falls into.

        • -4 votes

          @FoxJump: Could you please answer my two immediate concerns:

          1) If I cancel the contract during the cooling off period do I pay just 400 or 400 + dealer admin fee + establishment fee + what not?
          2) Has the finance guy advised me right that I prepay as much as I want, cancel the direct debit and keep the $10 until the end of the term to avoid early termination fee?

        •  

          @3zzy:
          1) dunno. That would depend on the t+c's - which you say weren't given. Chicken/egg.

          2) a fixed interest bank loan does not typically allow additional repayments. And even if it did, your monthly repayments would then become? Normally monthly repayments are constant in a fixed interest loan, so if you make an early repayment … What does that mean?

          Don't take anything he says to be true unless it's in a PDS or TC. he can say what he wants but he'll hide behind TC/PDS if he needs to.

        •  

          @FoxJump: WTF, I'll go in tomorrow and get everything in writing.

        •  

          If I cancel the contract during the cooling off period do I pay just 400 or 400 + dealer admin fee + establishment fee + what not?

          It's 2% of the purchase price, at least in VIC. Or $400 if it's higher, which it isn't in your case.

        •  

          @3zzy: When I add up the figures breakdown you gave I get less than $29,150.. what is up with that? $27,831.12 to be exact. If you listed all the charges correctly & completely it appears you have come out better than what you thought. If so nothing to stress over!

        • +1 vote

          @lghulm: i forgot to list gst 2466.89

        • +5 votes

          @3zzy: In that case I'd simply contact them & say you will not be accepting the vehicle or any loss of deposit/residual money owing unless the additional $448 of charges added since your verbal agreement with the salesperson are removed.

          (Better still if those charges are not listed on the purchase contract ~ if they are shame on you for signing without reading thoroughly but they are still in the wrong for deceptive sales practices - still in with a shot I'd say). If the charges are not on the contract they cannot hold you to them.

          I once reneged on a vehicle purchase because the salesperson promised an extended 5 year warranty with an accompanying service plan for a fixed price. I said that was fine if I were only required to service by the logbook (12 month intervals) but would be unacceptable if it were 6 month intervals (I didn't want the hassle of servicing more frequently). He agreed, we shook hands, they did the paperwork, I signed. With contract still in hand I queried that the 12 month condition wasn't written into the contract, the dealer manager grabbed the paperwork from my hand & said I would only get the extended warranty with 6 month intervals and bad luck they would pursue me through the courts if I didn't complete the purchase.

          3 hours of me refusing to leave the dealership without the contract being torn up (letting every customer that entered know what crooks they were) I eventually got my way.

        •  

          @lghulm: guess I have to do something similar. Shame that I have to. New car purhcase should be a good feeling not haggling and trying to save your ass. Darn it has been a horrible experience buying a used and now a new car!

        • +3 votes

          @3zzy: After my incident with the dealership I purchased the exact same model of car with another dealer, took them to town on price, refused to sign anything that did not show the complete price owing with all inclusions and then paid cash so no worries about anything getting changed by the finance company. No warranty claims & no repairs 4 years later so am a happy camper ;) The more you do it the better you get at it ;)

          Good purchase experiences I've had have actually mostly been at auction (Pickles & Manheim I believe are Australia wide) where I have purchased a couple of vehicles at heavy discounts, with service records & condition reports & a 3 month warranty for peace of mind (which came in handy one of the times but was not a hassle to organise).

        • +1 vote

          @3zzy: Need everything down in writing. That's why you always need them to print the contract out first and hold onto it and include all your conditions e.g. servicing requirements, free umbrella, mats etc. E.g. We ordered mud flaps to be included but the salesperson actually did not know they could not fit onto the model we ordered so he gave as an instant cashback for it because they did not upheld their signed contract.

          Unfortunately finance usually has establishment and loan fees (it's why dealerships love it over cash as it is an instant profit for them and why they push for finance).

          If you purchase with cash/your own loan etc, then you wont' have to pay the 750+400. Something to think about especially if you already have the cash/credit available.

        •  

          @3zzy: I think you are rushing the car purchase, if it is urgent and you don't care about the costs then go ahead. Otherwise as with most large purchases, shop around, find a good/great price and don't commit until you are 100% happy.

          Also i think you need to educate yourself about this process a lot more. I advise watching this video.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8VYNFzmJIQ

          Luckily this is for a new car (which is the same everywhere) with warranty and not like a purchasing a pre-existing home!

        • +2 votes

          @3zzy:

          If your happy with the price of the car but not the finance, why not just engage somebody externally to organise the finance? There are plenty of brokers around.

        •  

          @lghulm: I'd second Pickles, very positive experiences. I had to make a claim within the three month period, and was no dramas. Glad to hear your car treats you well.

        •  

          @3zzy: make sure the finances is not with AMP, they keep charging regardless of vital life signs.

        •  

          @RobVH: I've just purchased a car from Pickles at a Government Auction but I didn't know about this 3 months warranty period. Would you mind to elaborate?

        • +1 vote

          @FoxJump: I’ll chip my experience in here: my finance fell through once. I confirmed with the dealership: no fees if this happened. Confirm d three times: as long as it’s was a finance issue, no fee. So I put a deposit down.

          When it fell through, I got a sob story - it was off the lot, they have to delist, I need to pay 3%. I said no, conditional acceptance on finance (and confirmed this with you assholes). They said ‘oops we must have missed that’ and refund came through.

          You have some leverage if ‘conditional on finance’ is printed on the purchase agreement. It’s probably not an absolute, given the same company also is providing finance, but if it’s written you could walk away with no fees.

        •  

          @enigma48: side note - it was purely my word that finance fell through. (It technically did but I could have resolved it. Chose not to.)

        • +1 vote

          @lang_tu_syd:
          Auctions get no 3 month warranty.
          Fixed-price DOES get 3 months warranty (as they act like a Motor Dealer)

        •  

          @lang_tu_syd: Good explainer here: https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/fil... At least in WA a vehicle is covered by a statutory warranty even when purchased at auction if the following conditions apply:

          "Buying from a dealer auctioneer:
          ▪ There are a couple of ways to buy a vehicle from an auctioneer who is licensed as a motor vehicle dealer. In certain instances you may be able to negotiate a contract (private treaty) to buy the vehicle. The other way is to buy the vehicle on the ‘fall of the hammer’ at an auction.
          ▪ If you negotiate a contract, the dealer auctioneer has the same responsibilities (e.g. warranty) as any other licensed dealer selling a vehicle. Therefore, you should try to follow the suggestions mentioned in this checklist when negotiating the purchase.
          ▪ The nature of an auction however, is to sell items on an ‘as is’ basis. This applies to auctioneers licensed as motor vehicle dealers except when they are auctioning a vehicle owned by a ‘trade owner’. Trade owners include all licensed dealers (including the auctioneer), car hire and car leasing businesses and finance companies, except when the vehicle has been repossessed by the trade owner under the Credit Act or Hire Purchase Act.
          ▪ If the vehicle is being auctioned on behalf of a trade owner it is warrantable.
          ▪ Before an auction try to ascertain from the auctioneer which vehicles are trade owned, and those which are not. Warrantable trade-owned vehicles should display a pink Form 4 and nonwarrantable trade owned vehicles should display a blue Form 6."

          I remember when I purchased the particular vehicle at auction that needed repairs (oil leaks) the statutory warranty was present with the vehicle documents I inspected prior to bidding & the auctioneer did have a warranty claims department.

        • +1 vote

          @lang_tu_syd:

          3 month statutory warranty by law, only if you buy one of their fixed price vehicles. The price is slightly higher, but as it happens that car wouldn't have made it to auction anyway. Car came up online, viewed it same day, a couple walked into the office to buy it just as I was signing the contract.

    • +2 votes

      For the people who have not done car finance before listen up,

      $398 Establishment fee is common for all loans, Personal, Car, Home etc.

      The Dealer Admin Fee sometimes called the DOF Dealer origination fee is the dealership calling it a stupid charged and literally pocketing $700 for nothing.

      If you go through a Car broker they will be able to get you a cheaper interest rate and there is no DOF etc.

      • +2 votes

        Yep. This guy is right. The 398 is the bank establishment fee. Short of being a bank staff member or having a family connection, this won't be waived, even if you applied to Esanda/St George etc directly.

        The 750 is a purely made up charge to generate income for the dealership. This one can easily be waived if you simply tell them you'll source your finance elsewhere.

        Source - was a car finance guy for half a decade.

  • +7 votes

    Did you read any of the documents before you signed?

    • -2 votes

      Yes, price and delivery date mentioned. For finance he said all the details are available AFTER the finance is approved.

      I'm more worried about the early termination fee cause he said there's a trick to avoid it - pay off everything and keep $10 pending until the end of the term. I wonder if he was lying about that too!

      • +3 votes

        Did you read any of the documents before you signed?

        Yes, price and delivery date mentioned.

        WHAT ABOUT THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS?

        • -2 votes

          They didn't provide anything. I asked about the finance terms and conditions I still don't have it.

        • +1 vote

          @3zzy:
          heres the motor car traders act
          http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/web_notes/LDMS/LTObject_Store/LTObjSt6.nsf/d1a8d8a9bed958efca25761600042ef5/a1dbbca316f4fcfdca2578500001dc60/$FILE/86-104a070bookmarked.pdf

          it might assist

        • +4 votes

          @3zzy:
          So you signed something WITHOUT reading the T+C?
          Omigoshwow

        • -4 votes

          @FoxJump:

          I basically have two questions that I updated my original description with.

        • +4 votes

          @3zzy:
          ask the dealer mate

  •  

    Stamp Duty?

  • +33 votes

    I suggest you buy a push bike

  • +1 vote

    The delays are normal.
    Unless they literally have the car in stock at their own storage facility - it may take longer.

    • +1 vote

      Delays are normal, but not when they promise a delivery date 3 days ahead and change after the payment.

      •  

        I too have been frustrated with delivery dates.
        I bought my new XV early June and they said a week …. it arrived last day of June.

        Meanwhile my other XV I had before, they said Friday .. it was there on Friday.
        Meanwhile my little Prius, I signed contract and they promised no dates as they had to find the car.
        A month later the car was there from FNQ.

        It's frustrating. But the contract does say 30 days so you can do nothing.

        •  

          My contract doesn't say anything. Just says we'll try to deliver on or before delivery date but we can't be liable .. does that mean indefinite?

        • +2 votes

          @3zzy:
          The contract of sale of the three new cars ive bought in NSW state under clause 2.3
          If the dealer has not delivered the car within 30 days of the estimate delivery date … .. customer may rescind the contract"

        •  

          @3zzy:
          "Just says we'll try to deliver on or before delivery date but we can't be liable"

          If I saw that in a contract, I would say to the dealer, that I would prefer to only buy one if he had it in stock on site..unless the contract they printed guaranteed the delivery date.

          (Use it as a point to lower pricing and accept delays, wait for on site stock, or be ready to walk out of there).

        •  

          @3zzy:
          Your finance can't settle without a VIN. The VIN isn't obtained until a car is secured and is either on the dealership yard or very close to.
          I wouldn't worry about it. You won't be making repayments on a car that hasn't arrived.

      •  

        Delays are normal, but not when they promise a delivery date 3 days ahead and change after the payment.

        Unless you got it in writing, usually on the contract, then it's on you.

      • +1 vote

        Car salesmen are literally taught to tell ANY lie they want to to close in on a deal. After you've signed the contract, they could care less about you. Sure, there may be one or two who are good, but car most dealerships and salesmen operate this way. Personal opinion, of course.

  • +9 votes
    1. Read the fine print.
    2. Listen to what the salesman says, then have him point to the sections in the fine print.
    3. Read the fine print.

    Might have been better off with the Si is my bet.

    • -1 vote

      Got the delivery and no wouldn’t have been better off wjth the Si. Outlander is a lovely car. Sure, paid 448 more than I expected but its okay, got that wide smile on wife’s face thats worth many more times. So overall, quite happy .. and learnt my lessons.

  • +11 votes

    But, alas, there're different issues this time around.

    You're sounding like a troll………

    • +9 votes

      I asked him twice if there're any hidden costs and he said nothing at all.

      Seems to be the running theme… asking questions, not getting answers and signing a contract anyway…

  • +3 votes

    Vehicle Inspection Fee

    Lol wut.

  • +7 votes

    You have 2 seperate contracts here. 1 for the purchase of the car and one for financing the car. Are you disputing the finance charges? If so, buy the car via another finance provider such as People's Choice.

    •  

      I guess I havent signed the finance contract cause it wasnt approved. Can i back out?

      • +6 votes

        What does the contract state? No one here has a copy of your contract

      •  

        Yes you can back out of the finance contract if you haven't signed it and that you can paid via a different method (own finance or cash/redraw). Save you the admin and establishment fee.

        Was one of the biggest reasons that I paid outright because the fees to start the finance was about 3% of the value of our car (+ongoing admin costs) which would have ruined whatever savings I managed to obtain.

    • +12 votes

      Thankyou! Halfway down the page and someone actually has the correct answer.

      The vehicle purchase and finance application are 2 separate things!

      Feel free to get quotes elsewhere, there's nothing holding you to the dealership finance. After all fees and charges are taken into account, compare your repayments between at least 2 lenders and see which works out.

      Every financier has charges, it can be their only source of income on the contract sometimes. But get another quote to form a benchmark. Shouldn't take you long to do.

      And then report back.


      Oh, and a delay of a few days is nothing crazy. Stop getting so worked up.

      •  

        Spot on.

        However, customer has been declined by the dealer finance. So it's probably a good idea to find out why and see if there is any means of rectification available before he enquires anywhere else.

        •  

          However, customer has been declined by the dealer finance. So it's probably a good idea to find out why and see if there is any means of rectification available before he enquires anywhere else.

          No he hasn't?

        •  

          @Spackbace:

          He mentioned above that he wasn't approved - maybe I misinterpreted.

      •  

        Agree with the main point, but

        Oh, and a delay of a few days is nothing crazy. Stop getting so worked up.

        If my finance was delayed and I say, Oh, a delay of a few days to pay is nothing crazy, would the dealer accept it and release the vehicle?

        Most dealers wouldn't let buyers delay the payment by few days without fees. It should be working both ways. If we are suppose to pay on-time, deliver it on-time!

        It would be nicer to be up front about potential delays as buyers would be have excitements in getting a new car and to avoid being disappointed about delayed delivery.

        This post is a very good reminder for me to put everything in writing when I go for the next car!!

  •  

    Yes, the tricky dealings that occur in today's business world is very concerning. I have now taken to recording the "transaction" on a note taker. Most recently with travel insurance, phone on speaker and the recorder not directly connected, I think in that case it would be an offence under the telecommunications act!. With all the dodgey car contracts, that might also be a case for recording?. At least that would be seen, and it might discourage sales people from stitching you up next time?.

    • +5 votes

      You can record phone conversations for your own training and quality assurance. You just need to make the other party aware you are recording

      • +4 votes

        While it is generally a good idea to inform people and get their consent to record any conversations with them, this law varies from state to state. For example, in Victoria, you are allowed to record a conversation that you are involved with, without the need to inform anyone. In NSW, this is not the case, and no recording can be done without consent, even if you are involved.

        The other issue is what you do with that recording once it is made. While it can be used as a personal reference and possible legal action later on, any dissemination of this recording could possibly be illegal, even if it was legally obtained in the first place…

        So, yes, to be on the safe side, always inform someone that you will be recording the conversation for personal future reference.

        And in case you are bored… Australian Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979

        • -1 vote

          Why did pegaxs get a neg? It’s legally correct.
          If you cant record, what about keeping a file note in the diary of the convo?

        • +2 votes

          @Frugal:

          It’s ok. I know who the neg is from. They are just negging my comments over butthurt, not becuse I’m wrong. I proved them wrong a few days ago and this is their petty revenge.

          Fake internet points don’t bother me. Being right, does. :)

        •  

          so would the recording be illegal if the caller/recorder is in Victoria and the other party is in NSW?

    • +1 vote

      With all the dodgey car contracts

      You'll find most are pretty clear cut as to what's included. If it's printed off a computer, there won't be anything dodgy.

      Model differences (like OPs other post), aren't dodgy contracts, that's lousy data entry. Different.

  • +2 votes

    Okay so what model did you get? Your total (without establishment fees) is $29900. Which is the starting price of the 7 seater model. So doesn't seem like a rip off here.

    The establishment fee is for finance, not for the car. Don't want to pay it, go for a different financier. Count yourself lucky, I paid $405 establishment fee, PLUS $400 Origination Fee, aka Dealer loan commission.

    I literally drove home my new Elantra today, so I've just been through all this in the last week. And why are worried about 2 or 3 work days delay? It happens, my car was delayed about 3 days too. Shit happens.

    • +5 votes

      about half the purchase price is dead money

      So you are saying ~50% depreciation when you walk out the door?

      • +2 votes

        I love when people pull random figures out of their ass to try to prove a point ;) lol

        •  

          I love it when people call other people "fools" for buying new cars. Newsflash - if nobody is buying new cars there is no used cars available either. What a moron.

  • Top