Hello fellow Ozbargainers!
I've started a petition to send to the Australian treasurer Scott Morrison to re-consider the GST on goods costing less than $1000 bought online. This will be done as soon as we reach at least 10,000 petitions.
Please sign the petition and spread the word so that we can all continue to access Amazon.com.
If you care about this cause and your freedom to purchase online, please sign and share this petition
Pretty unequivocal shootdown of the rumour (not that i'd trust a word to come out of sbs, but still!!!)
Everyone can still buy from overseas… At the moment, whatever Harvey Norman is buying is subject to GST while you are getting it tax free - I'm struggling to see the injustice here?
(As a consumer I loved getting things tax free, looking at the situation logically it makes perfect sense)
People need to think this through. I like buying things tax free as much as the next guy. But why is it that people think it is their right to buy product without consumption tax? Why shoukd a product online not have gst but one in a store should? Consumption tax is consumption tax. Suck it up and be thankful for all the things you have bought in the past decade without tax
Well personally I don't see why there should be GST on items that have in no way been manufactured, enhanced, or even sold locally.
The kogans and shops that setup a local shop front but ship directly from overseas warehouses to avoid taxes should be the only ones affected by these new tax laws.
The GST is a consumption tax, not a production tax. The relevant element is the location of the consumer.
You oppose it for the wrong reasons.
consumption from or through local retailers.
if you buy things overseas as tourist, and didnt consume there. you will most likely can get it back in first world country in some form before you leave. unless the country taxes you and do not care about consumption locally or if above certain amount. does your resident country going to tax you for consumption in that country again since you didnt pay tax in the purchasing country? it does not normally tax if its below $1000 or above a few hundred range, and proper declaration if above a threshold. so they should tax you for consuming it in australia based on your theory. no double taxation rule here, single tax.
fear not, this might happen when you come back with tax free items next. this is a start depends on how desperate the government is for cash grab.
@zzzsianzzz: yes but this does actually hurt local retailers at it places them at an unfair advantage. I love a bargain, so think the best outcome would have been to remove GST from ALL purchases under $1000 rather than imposing more on online retail -
Either way it has to be a level palaying field, and previously, it was not. A business was previously better off sacking their local staff and setting up off shore and selling online to avoid the tax
@MrFrugalSmith:
I think it is a bigger problem than a simple GST on under $1000, tbh. Some things are cheaper even after the GST. But the postage might unlevel them because of shipping costs from overseas. some collapsed like DSE and was taken over by Kogan (hk base and aussie founded). More are crashing. Many international retailers left, it can be seen in Sydney city shopping centers how many companies disappeared from the Aussie market.
Aussie companies have also listed in US. It comes down to taxation, I would not blame aussie companies from moving offshore if government is going around cash grabbing when they can. If the costs for operating business overseas are almost the same as Aussie operations, those companies would not have done so. Leveling is a false front. Look at how many items are from overseas anyway. Apple, Samsung, etc. It is a matter of who is selling to consumers, how much they profit and whether government have a share in that profit.
Because the productivity commission determined that the costs of the policy so strongly outweighed the economic benefits that it would be a terrible idea.
Simple…so charge either the importer or the exporter. Which is exactly what is happening.
Guess who paya for the processing cost when a retailer or a car distributor or anyone else imports product? They do.
Guess who pays when a consumer imports something for more than $1000? Thats right, the consumer!
There is absolutely no logical reason to believe imported goods consumed in Australia shouldnt attract gst. As much as i have enjoyed it for the last decade
I think most people would be happy with paying the GST if that was done the same way every other country does, not to mention the fact that every other country has "normal" prices, and you'd hardly have to buy anything from overseas as shops usually carry a decent range of products.
this is just another fail, like the NBN, the public health system, and a long loooooong list of other things.
@RiseAndRuin: Australia has perfectly normal prices relative to its wealth. I'd be shocked if our buying power was significantly less than most other highly developed countries.
But why is it that people think it is their right to buy product without consumption tax?
Simple:
a) The items weren't made here, don't exist here unless I bring them in, and all the taxes of the originating country and costs to the couriers here were already paid before it arrived (just as the reverse is true).
b) In regards to pensioners at least, they don't earn enough to pay any income tax. Yet GST now means they're paying tax on everything. Liberals gave a small pay increase I think, but it didn't compensate for the increase in literally every possible purchase. They shouldn't be paying any tax on anything.
c) The government is never content - it introduces something then finds a way to increase it. As someone else here pointed out, they want to add $5 to every package. So our 'one-time GST' - that was to replace multiple taxes - has gone back to multiple taxes again.
a) That exact same argument can be used for any imported goods in Australian stores. Should they be exempt?
b) Some pensioners do. I don't quite follow why they shouldn't be paying tax on anything? I would have no qualms if it was found that they struggle too much so should receive more benefits - but exempting them from all taxes seems unjustifiable
c) The government is never content because the population is never content. I'm sure politicians would like nothing more but to sit back, relax and leave everything exactly how it is. Many people making this argument seem to forget that taxes pay for public services - not to directly benefit politicians…
a) yes if they were not sold here but sold from overseas
Won't be signing. I realise it's a pain for Amazon, but I don't see why we should be looking past this tax avoidance.
I find it quite funny that people are happy to point out tax avoidance in relatively faceless companies like oil or mining companies, or Newscorp, or Qantas. But as soon as it hampers their online shopping options…my goodness we must petition against it!
Who is avoiding tax? Amazon? They aren't collecting any tax. Us?
Referring to the signers of this petition I believe
I bet you never bought anything from Amazon international sites.
The second point is a given.
The first point isn't about paying tax. It's about how our lazy and greedy government would have lost money collecting the Gerry Harvey tax, so instead foists responsibility for collecting THEIR tax off on an OVERSEAS company. Unless Amazon, etc. are getting paid by the ATO to collect tax on their behalf, they should not be required to be Australian tax collectors. They're not selling in Australia, they're selling in the USA and shipping here - so we're buying in from there - so government should charge us not Amazon. They'd have to employ dozens of extra accountants just to try meeting all the requirements of every country that sees this and follow suit. It's ridiculous.
It's a holiday. Some people want to do something that's a departure from the usual - not the same stores, faces, clothes, food, and entertainment in a town with a different name on the sign. ;-p
Big companies are still avoiding taxes which Govt. has done very little about. They are just squeezing more money from taxes applicable to normal people.
If this is the case then the Government need to address artificial inflation of items sold within Australia.
There are many items that are often 2.5 to 3x the cost of the conversion rate. I realsise that this can be in the costs of local warehouses but it is increased an arbitrary amount.
It's not that people don't want to pay GST on imports. It's that many overseas retailers are ceasing trade with Australians due to it. It's too much effort to ask overseas retailers to pay GST to the Australian government, it's much easier to just stop shipping to Aussies. I'd be perfectly fine with paying 10% GST on my imports but alas the government are idiots and went with the easy/heavy handed approach to collect the money directly from the overseas retailers.
So complain to the retailer not about the government which is trying to levy a tax which has been legislated?
What if Harvey Norman or Woolworths complained it was too complicated to collect the GST? Would that be okay?
Yeah, that sounds like a great idea. Let me just complain to the hundreds of retailers about it. Can't you see the problem for what it is? Why be on the government's side of collecting GST this way? No other country does it like this. Your comparison to Woolworths and Harvey Norman is completely different. They are trading in Australia so they are obligated to collect GST. Retailers from overseas that aren't trading in Australia don't have that obligation. Importing goods are handled by customs.
The offshire retailer ARE trading in Australia and now they will be obligated to collect.
Globalisation works both ways.
Customs collecting GST would be an option but who is going to pay for it? Taxpayers? Why should they pay for you to enjoy your imported goods? If a business imports a product to sell locally and employ local staff, pay local landlords, taxes etc they pay the import processing costs. So why should taxpayers pay for yours?
@BNR34: I don't think all goods imported should be taxed with GST so it's a moot point. Applying GST to a $1000 threshold was the right way to go about it. Taxing every single imported good no matter the cost is not feasible and pushing the responsibility onto the overseas retailer is a short-sighted approach that doesn't work as evident by them blocking Australians. We'll see less competition as a result now that the big overseas retailers have closed up shop to Aussies as well. It's bad any way you look at it.
I wish people would stop thinking its "cool" to say the parties are all the same.
Actually look at their policies and you will find they are completely different.
Actually look at their policies and you will find they are completely different.
is that before or after they win a majority/minority government?
On climate change all major parties have stupid policies.
Any policy on climate change is stupid. Who needs policy on a fairy story?
Except fairy tales tend to have happy endings.
True. Look at the purveyors of Fairy Stories influencing policies within Liberal Democracies.
And whatever we call our system.
The same, just in different ways. i.e. They both look for more ways to control and restrict our lives, remove freedom, cost us more money, abandon common sense to do stupid and traitorous actions against citizens they're supposed to represent, and generally spend their lives making the rest of us miserable while appeasing minority groups because they whine a lot about little of importance.
Are you sure they 'they' are not just looking for ways to monetise us for their mates' benefits, as fast as possible, before the opportunity is lost and the next generation is left to end the shit-fight they too are not equipped to end.
Signed but I cant see this happening. The NBN petition got over 300k votes and Jack happened. The petition was even started by a liberal voter. Democracy is dead.
Here is the NBN petition : https://www.change.org/p/the-liberal-party-of-australia-reco…
Even by a liberal voter? OMG. Are you sure? I thought everything they wanted was just passed into law immediately. Damn.
I use a fake FB account.
ah, the young and naive, who think politicians actually care what the public think. lifetime pension and benefits. thats all it is. money and power.
I agree with you but if everyone thought the way you did, nothing ever would get achieved.
And with politicians, it rarely does, and when it does, it's a dog's dinner. Which is why we need to vote the two major parties last every chance we get.
part of the problem lies with short terms in office. by the time the next crew come in, they undo everything the previous party did. if we have 10 year tenures, then we could actually achieve some long term planning.
Disco,
I don't think we need 10 year terms, however…
Four years and fixed terms, that's another story.
The fact that the calling of elections and dates for elections is controlled by the actual government under the Westminster system is a serious breach of the 'separation of powers' concept.
Apart from blatant manipulation, by taking advantage of short-term political events, etc, it just entrenches the 're-election cycle', whereby politicians are basically forced to campaign from the first day of their tenure. (Most of them don't know when the next election will occur either. The power brokers of the major parties determine this.)
So we end up with politicians, most of whom (despite the vitriol expressed here and elsewhere) are probably decent civic-minded people, really wanting to do something beneficial for the own community and for the country as a whole, spending much of their time on party-political campaigning rather than on governing matters. Getting re-elected in two, two-and-a-half, three years, is their greatest priority. And if they spend too much time on non-party related work, they get disciplined (ie, kicked out at pre-selection).
Most countries have fixed terms, fixed dates for elections. It adds a level of confidence not only to the democratic process, but also to the populace. It allows for longer-term planning, and to a degree it erodes the stranglehold of the party system over the political process.
….. and this is why there is little traction, either from the Liberal or Labor Parties for the introduction of fixed terms.
Makes sense to have GST on all purchases regardless of source location.
How to collect that is a big challenge and as previous Govt. stated, it is going to waste more tax payers money compared to what they collect.
And herein lies the rub.
The current $1000 limit is there for a good reason.
In earlier times, there were likewise thresholds for sales tax and customs duty collection.
Because governments at the time understood the cost benefit limits of the collection of taxes and duties.
But when it becomes a political or an ideological cause, common sense goes out the door. We get the odious calls to nationalistic pride ("Buy Australian" or "help our employment" or "Small companies are going broke"), or the equally odious calls to moral outrage ("Chinese/Indian/<insert poor country name> workers are being ripped off" or "the rainforest/resources/whales are being polluted/depleted" or "the giant multinationals are paying no tax").
So, what will happen is that vast amounts will be spent on trying to encourage other countries and external companies to collect tax for the Australian government on a myriad of tiny items, and when that fails vast amounts will be spent domestically on the same. And for all the $0.50 and $3.00 and $30.00 items, this can never be a profitable exercise.
It is another example of being seen to be doing something for a problem that does not really exist in the first place. But then, in today's socio-political context, perception trumps reality. Every time.
Except it will cost everyone a lot more than what is gained so you end up with less money than before. Not to mention online shops closing to Australians
I've bought a lot of stuff from overseas for years and can't think of a single item that was available here, or if it was, was of a lesser quality. The closest is my laptop bought on ebay USA for a few hundred less and a few hundred more in features - and it was the SAME model! (The backlit keyboard and discrete video card were not available in the Australian model.)
All this new tax will do is hit consumers. While Big Companies like Microsoft doesn't pay a cent for selling their products in AUS and booking that as a sale from one of their overseas subsidiaries.
That is not true, Diverted profits tax has been introducted to target profit shifting activities by multinationals. Microsoft paid $31,165,850
in 2013-2014 tax year, $33,334,757 in tax in 2014-2015 tax year and $42,298,782 in 2015-2016 tax year which is even before the introduction of Diverted profits tax. They may have been underpaying their taxes in prior years but they still paid some tax.
I can't help but think if you included how much their licensing, online services, and professional services revenue was, and how much of that came directly from consolidated revenue (Taxpayer funds), your comment may have a little more relevance.
This has been a long time coming. The time to do this if you disagreed was when it was proposed, not a couple of years after it’s been passed into law.
Could have done this petition years ago when it was in the news. Too late.
We oBaraginers need to get to the parliament and get some protests done then things will work.
1,000,000 signatures would have no impact unfortunately
Is that you Mr Harvey?
He's not wrong. This petition won't change anything. It's a done deal whether we like it or not unfortunately.
To play devils advocate - what are the reasons why this should be removed? (I mean for the country, not for you, the individual).
Shouldn't the GST apply equally to all goods and service? i.e. every retailer pays it, or none do?
Many reasons:
- Difficult to manage and collect GST from overseas sellers.
- Will cost Govt. more to collect tax compared to what they collect for overseas sales. All goes from tax payers money.
- Non competetive market where many imported goods are over 30% plus cheaper compared to local market offer. Many local retailers encashing more profits..
And might be more which I have missed.
First 2 points
Not that hard or expensive to manage and collect. The buyer pays at the border if the overseas platforms don't pay. It works like non-resident withholding tax (responsibility is on the resident involved which the govt can manage) and infrastructure at the border already in place for customs duty etc. so some scaling up needed but don't think for a minute that won't be covered by the collections.
Your last point seems to suggest adjusting the free market. I mean, from a sellers point of view, if you charge more and people still buy because of other factors like service, shouldn't you charge more?
"Not that hard or expensive to manage and collect"
Wow looks like the experts who did the survey were gools.
How can you force someone in overseas to collect taxes and give it back here? How can it be verfied if certain items have paid taxes and certain, who haven't , it will be up to courier services or post to do that.
Taken sale items less than $1000 is way too much, it is a continuous and big headache along with work to sort it out.
Dont fell into the trap of taxes for roads and infrastructure strategy as Govt. will be paying more to tax collectors compared to what it collects and that was the reason this rule was delayed for so long.
Its like FTTH NBN, which was expensive in Liberal eyes and they have delivered crap network again with changes and costs multi folds on what they claimed taking Aus to rank 60 compared to 30 estimated earlier.
Exactly. The government is acting like a person too lazy to exert the 2 calories required to tie their own shoelaces, who asks someone else to do it for them instead, but will still walk outside without shoes on if they can't con someone else to kneel down and tie the laces.
My thoughts on these points
- Difficult to manage and collect GST from overseas sellers.
How so? The Difficultly lies on the retailer, not the consumer or government. Amazon already do this for VAT for the UK - it would be basically the same, right? Smaller retailers - yes - Amazon - not at all.
- Will cost Govt. more to collect tax compared to what they collect for overseas sales. All goes from tax payers money.
Source? I'd say this is debatable. Look, I'd never try to argue for government efficiently but surely 10% of everything coming into Aus from OS would easily cover this. In fact, most of the system is already in place.
- Non competetive market where many imported goods are over 30% plus cheaper compared to local market offer. Many local retailers encashing more profits..
And locals get paid 30% more than people in these countries. Don't people like our quality of life here in Australia or not? Or do we all want the high salaries of a 1st world country and the low prices of the 3rd world? That's a fantasy surely and can't be sustained.
For the record, I think all tax is theft, but there should be one rule for all retailers that sell to Australians.
I personally think people are being selfish here and only thinking of themselves - screw small/medium Aussie businesses and other tax payers. In addition, they should stop them offshoring their income and pay some company tax too IMO - that's the real problem. I guess they have trouble with that one so they're doing this.
I believe much of these prices will be absorbed by the retailer, Amazon makes massive profits selling to Aussies with or without the GST.
"10% of everything coming into Aus from OS would easily cover this"
Source? There was a reason to put $1000 threshhold limit. Also, dont count GST over $1k as it was already in place.
"In fact, most of the system is already in place."
why Govt. is forcing or relying tax collection on sellers? There will be countless efforts and people employed to get fraction of tax from countless small purchases.
"And locals get paid 30% more than people in these countries. Don't people like our quality of life here in Australia or not?"
Yes, that is correct, but that extra is easily compensated by mich more expensive weekly grocessaries and rental/property values. Buying a $2 battery from overseas costs $5 here. Few items have over 150% markups and that is pure greed. Even 10% GST wont fill that gap.
We are debating collection of taxes for such small purchases and amazon has simply cut sides by blocking us from other global sites.
Which means it is directly going to impact salaried people, who are going to pay more and Govt. will be using our taxes to collect small part of it and spending more on managing it.
Exactly domcc1.
Whether you like Gerry Harvey or Scott Morrison or not, petition supporters want Australian businesses who pay (and partly administer) the GST that funds the roads, hospitals and schools they use to continue to suffer a pricing disadvantage so they can continue to make GST free purchases from Amazon and other foreign business who fund other countries' roads, hospitals and schools, if at all. How selfish and self-focussed are these people? Have they heard of tax integrity? Some don't like political parties in our democracy and might want to end that too. Some don't like taxes or the idea of contributing to their community either. I accept that you don't need tax integrity if you don't have taxes. But they won't commit to residence in Grand Cayman to see what a living in a country without taxes is really like. They all stay here and want the benefits democracy and tax deliver to Australia.
Hipocracy..
I can only call that if Govt. ignored big businesses not paying taxes. Anything anyone want to say for that?
And scrap CGT while we're at it too please.
Its not that far back that there was no CGT or GST although we were all still liable for stamp duty on our imports.
Don't waste your time with useless online polls.
If you actually care, contact your member of parliament and their oppositions and voice your opinion, telling them your next vote is dependant on their stance on this and anything else you're concerned about.
If you don't care. Do absolutely anything else.
Not that informed on the subject, but isn't leveling the playing field for local businesses a good thing?
Maybe it’s just me. But I think it’s the other way around. Local businesses need to wake up and trade like they are competing with the rest of the world.
I’ve been a consultant with many businesses and the profit margin of between 60% - 300% is not uncommon here. All this will do is enforce the mentality local businesses do not need to up their game.
I think it’s the other way around. Local businesses need to wake up and trade like they are competing with the rest of the world.
Yep. I'm tired of walking into stores that say they "have to" charge more for their brick and mortar store, wages, operating costs, etc. when there's 12 employees wandering around 24/6 twiddling their thumbs. e.g. My local small Harvey Norman store that's about the size of a tennis court and only sells electrical appliances (no furniture, carpet, tiles, etc.) who break into a confused cold sweat when >5 customers walk in.
Its not leveling the playing field. Its removing choice for taxpayers, costing them more, and funneling more sales into overpriced identical products because, "support australian jobs".
You shouldnt be paying more for the same identical item, to support mediocre service.
You should be differentiating yourself to make that price difference between local stock (imported via official channels) vs grey import stock.
For example, local warranty is something that ozbargainers will value.
Service to an extent is also valued, paying 30% more to shop at harvey norman for an identical product, crap service and "support australian jobs" is not.
Identical product = same item from the same factory in china.
Local stock = item obtained by aus retailer through local distribution channels, i.e. bulk imported from the factory.
Grey import = item obtained by overseas retailer through an expensive one-item shipping method.
Logically speaking, shouldnt the grey import be a lot more expensive, given since unit vs bulk shipping?
Even if i were to pay gst (i am happy to), we would still be saving 30% or more to buy from overseas.
The problem is the removal of choice.
Signed and shared
What we really need is a COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS for taxpayers as turnbull wanted one for nbn, its only fair he does one for this
signed and thankyou for creating the petition. :) atleast you can say you tried and you didnt sit back idle and let negative change happen without pushing against it. :)
So If my Mum send me things from Hong Kong for my birthday, I will have to pay to collect my birthday present?
If commercial value inc. shipping and insurances goes above $1000, you get slugged with GST and a number of fees that cover gov admin, as well as applicable import duties.
For a $1 item fro China, I can see this being calculated out to $3 or $4, or even $50 given the ineptitude we've seen coming out of Canberra to date.
Regardless, it looks like a good time to invest in a Australia Post retail shop!
You'd be surprised the retail shops aren't earning that much whenever the couriers have decided to card your parcels.
No, it would have to be paid to the retailer, not collected when it arrives
This shouldn't be an issue with the tax, rather it should be directed at Amazon. As much as I hate being restricted to Amazon AU, it was amazon's choice to do this.
It was Amazon admitting defeat because it became too complicated.
That's what Amazon suggests, but ebay manages to achieve this on their platform? Not to mention Amazon already charges different taxes in the US depending on your state.
I'm just wary of what the real reason could be, and whether or not Amazon is just trying to move the blame onto the government, as is happening here.
Chipped in a Fiver
But but Schools and Hospitals…..
Once we get this passed can we then sign the stupid recycling vending scheme that raised prices of drinks
If anyone is unhappy and actually wants to do something worthwhile. Contact the minister of finance Kelly O'Dwyer:
https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?…
Then contact her opposition, the shadow minister of finance Jim Chalmers:
https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?…
Raise your concerns directly with the people who make this stuff happen
How about don't vote people that are screwing you repeatedly, again and again.
Do not vote Liberal. Do not vote Labour unless they repeal this unfair, dangerous tax. Just joking, they never do that.
If you vote for either of these parties you are agreeing with the recent GST changes. And the GST.
The fact that this bill managed to get this far probably suggest both sides of the divide supports it to a certain degree, relying on Labor to get it repelled might be a little far fetched. Greens and other minorities wouldn't have the strength to pull something together in parliament. We're in a bind.
Then vote which one that gives better deals?
That's what I was saying earlier. We need an OzBargain political party.
Problem is, we wouldn't be united enough. We'd end up bickering internally.
30% off Caged Eggs -> Bargain? Or animal cruelty?
Free burgers at Grill'd via charity. Bargain? or sexist?
Classic NES in stock! -> Bargain? Or "This isn't OzRRP"
LOL at the comments on that petition.
J V: Any Bargains?
Fu Tu: price jacking.
Like when I looked at a free course which was posted here, and saw comments about eneloops
Better still, let's get rid of Gerry Harvey
Much as i love getting my goods on the cheap by dodging GST, i feel we are shooting ourselves in the foot by not buying local which gives long term disadvantages to our economy… Adding the GST to overseas purchases is logical. It doesn't give australian businesses an 'edge' over overseas businesses. it gives them parity
If the aussie businesses are still more expensive than the overseas businesses, when the field is level, well, we can still buy it from overseas.
It doesn't give australian businesses an 'edge' over overseas businesses. it gives them parity
Not parity for them, but consistency for the consumer (10% cos you're used to it by now, riiiight?)
If the aussie businesses are still more expensive than the overseas businesses, when the field is level, well, we can still buy it from overseas.
Right. So what changed?
Local business can't hope to compete with people living in small boxes, sending mass-produced crap from countries suffering environmental fallout from making that crap, transported by a majority State-subsidised postal system to…
…our constipated, paranoid, xenophobic Altar Boys of the Exclusive Brethren who suspect every package contains Asian surveillance gear.
Oh, but they pocketed an extra 10% despite the Productivity Commission report advice that it would cost more to administer and collect than raise in revenue.
In the coming Dog & Pony show, we're the soft underbelly.
Pressure from retailers like JB Harvey Norman and Myer is what made it happen so boycott them until they get it reversed
Personally I’m ok with gst being applied to all sales even if the vendor is overseas but I’d like to see other taxes removed like they were supposed to do when gst was introduced…..stamp duty etc
If a politician takes the time to say they aren't going to do something, it means that they have seriously considered it, and probably will do it.