What to line bins with post plastic bag ban?

LElwes on 20/06/2018 - 08:40

Woolies no longer gives free disposable plastic shopping bags from today. Coles is starting soon too. Like most Australians, after I unpack the groceries I save the bags and use them to line the bin in the kitchen. When my stockpile runs out, what am I going to use!?
What do other OzBargainers do? I find it hard to believe you pay good money for commercial bin liners.

This article has some good tips and some unhelpful ones:
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/woolworth-s-plastic-bag-ban-star…
Using old bread bags to pick up dog poo is a good suggestion. Wrapping prawn shells and lining bins with newspaper is no help - who reads newspapers any more?

Home & Garden Bin Plastic Bag

Comments

  • Elwes on 20/06/2018 - 08:42

    These seem to be the cheapest:
    https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/517049/sel…
    $2.50/40 = 6c per 12L bag
    What other options do I have?

    • HighAndDry on 20/06/2018 - 09:44
      +141

      This is the stupidest part of the whole "ban plastic bags" campaign. Because guess what, people still need plastic bags, and both woolies and coles still use plastic bags… they now just have an excuse to charge you money for them.

      • Domingo on 20/06/2018 - 10:45
        +94

        Even worse is the fact that instead of using thin, produced as cheaply as possible bags, we're now going to bag our rubbish in far sturdier plastic bin liners that will likely take significantly longer to degrade.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 20/06/2018 - 13:48
          +46

          We all get punished because a few miscreants can't dispose of plastic bags responsibly.

          Stop littering, not useful plastic bags.

        • HighAndDry on 20/06/2018 - 16:40
          +17

          @Scrooge McDuck: Exactly this. I mean - the people this will actually annoy the most are precisely the ones who DON'T litter, because they're the ones taking the plastic bags home to reuse.

        • 2024 on 21/06/2018 - 00:54
          +5

          Not sure about this. I bagged some recycling in some shopping bags and bin liners. Left them outside for a few months forgot to take it to the recycling place. The bin liners were basically vaporised.

        • DannyBoy on 22/06/2018 - 00:37
          +3

          @bigjezza: I think that happens in the sun, completely different story once it's in the ground out of light though.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/06/2018 - 02:19
          +15

          @Scrooge McDuck: It isn't this. It is because far leftist activists believe they need to save the world and once they get a head of steam up will not listen to any form of reason or evidence.

          Very few Australian plastic bags end up in the oceans, in fact very little rubbish from Australia at all. Rubbish does pour in however from China, India and South East Asia creating an immense problem.

          Because they wouldn't dare criticise a non-Western nation the left needs to find a target for their angst and as always they need to find that target in Western people. Ergo we are the targets for this initiative despite the fact that we are not the ones contributing to the problem of plastics finding their way into ecosystems and the ocean.

          And by targeting us rather than the real culprits they actually increase the environmental impact (not to mention the extra hassle for everybody) by increasing the carbon emissions and water footprint of the way we bag and dispose of our rubbish.

          You can't fix stupid.

          • Full disclosure I have a Masters in Sustainability and work in environmental consulting.
          • bargain huntress on 12/01/2019 - 13:24

            @[Deactivated]: THIS!!!

            And to lesser extent Africa…

            Basically any '3rd' and '2nd' world country.

            The amount contributed by the '1st' world is insignificant by comparison. Therefore, the impact they can have is also insignificant by comparison!

            But you can't just blame 'left activists' I'm afraid.
            A related example is the various medical organisations and their current approach to antibiotic resistance a.k.a. blaming average 1st world citizens and telling them not to 'pressure' doctors for antibiotics. Meanwhile in the rest of the world you can buy them over the counter! I won't start on the rest…

        • Kunalk222 on 22/06/2018 - 14:06
          +1

          thicker ones are reusable and recyclable

        • Kunalk222 on 22/06/2018 - 14:07
          +1

          @Scrooge McDuck: well when you say few…do you mean half of the world…the problem with plastics is not something new…we need to get rid ofit..

        • Scrooge McDuck on 23/06/2018 - 12:52
          +2

          @Kunalk222:

          Thin plastic bags are being stopped here, not in half the world.

        • GOFYS on 23/06/2018 - 14:30
          -7

          @lghulm:

          Maybe you can't fix stupid, but you can use correct terminology.

          Perfectly intelligent people are convinced that coal is the "carbon" and its black smoke, that we should be banning.

          What the believers are trying to eliminate is carbon dioxide, you know, the stuff we exhale, the giver of life to nature.

          And anything that releases more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is a good thing for every living thing on the planet.

          Using the term "carbon emissions" just furthers their agenda.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/06/2018 - 23:01
          +3

          @Scrooge McDuck:

          Next trolleys will be banned as a small percentage ends up in our waterways.

        • shp on 25/06/2018 - 16:46

          @lghulm:
          India is trying to do its bit ..
          https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mumbai-residents-happy-as-ma…

          Granted there is long way to go and more can be done.
          But you should not expect other countries to act unless you do it yourself fist.

          South East Asian countries are possibly worst offenders now (I say possibly - because I don't have the data to prove or disprove this) - but they did not start this problem.
          For example - Single use plastic bags were not in common use in these countries until 15 years ago.

        • trapper on 25/06/2018 - 18:43
          +1

          @Kunalk222: Yes but the thinner ones were already being used or recycled. So we now have the same - but thicker…

        • BadGiraffe on 26/06/2018 - 16:25

          @lghulm: Fair enough. I'm going to guess your line of work is in sustainability and environment.

          Now that this is going ahead, is there anything that you've come across that are good alternatives to plastic bin liners? The only thing I'm thinking of is just buying plastic liners from Coles or whatever, which defeats the purpose.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/06/2018 - 23:05
          +1

          @flaminglemon: I am a bit of a pessimist when I look at each of the various options. A locally made bag made from locally grown hemp and diligently used by a person who looks after it is probably in front of everything else… but are they available in numbers? Hemp requires much less water than cotton & is easier on the land/pesticide use.

          I find it hard to believe people will get enough repetitious use to make thicker plastic bags a valid choice.
          Cotton has the water issue and also requires a lot of reuse, especially when bags shipped from Asia with their additional weight fuel cost..
          Purchasing bin liners throws out any environmental savings immediately..
          Paper bags come with high material & energy costs..

          Perhaps someone can make available a years worth of the original plastic bags in little packages we can buy that used to be free? (But then we have the added packaging on packaging… still probably the second best option behind hemp bags)

          And then all these people suggesting to simply refrain from bagging rubbish.. so then it all rolls around the street when bins inevitably get tipped over, the extra resource use & pollution from all the additional detergents & water used to scrub out smelly bins fortnightly..

          So rambling but what is my ultimate advice? Buy and re-use hemp bags, don't buy bin liners and don't use detergents to clean your bin when it gets smelly, just a little bit of water and then air it. For the few that manage that the environment is probably ahead.. add all those that deviate though and I don't see a benefit.

          To model it you need to make so many assumptions in usage & sourcing scenarios that you could get the data to say whatever you want. Also by excluding items from discussion like the extra detergent that will end up getting used that didn't make it into any supporting environmental modelling.

        • BadGiraffe on 28/06/2018 - 00:44

          @lghulm: So no bin liners, but throw rubbish into hemp bags… wash and re-use? Because, like most people, I'm very averse to change. I've lived me entire life believing we need to use bin liners to keep our bins clean, tie it off when it's full and throw it out.

          Don't get me wrong. I would like nothing more than to save our environment, but I honestly can't think of anything I'm comfortable with other than buying bin liners off the shelf. If they were to stop selling bin liners, I don't know what I'd do.

          I don't know where in this post I commented this, but I said that the only winners here are the companies that make bin liners, and not the environment.

          As for carrying groceries, I read an article about how this lady is using those big buckets you can get from KMart. Ingenious. I'll be doing that for sure.

          https://au.be.yahoo.com/womans-brilliant-kmart-hack-plastic-…

        • bobwokeup on 28/06/2018 - 11:03

          @flaminglemon: I agree it is so hard to change but over time the ones that care will adapt. Aldi already got us into a habit of bringing our own bags. Changing our main bin liner from plastic is harder to change but we only use one for the whole week up until bin day. For food scraps we use a small plastic bag, sourced from fruit & veg at supermarkets and empty that very couple of days. So from our perspective the companies that sell bin liners won’t get anymore money from us haha
          The most important thing is that people are aware of their actions and what it is doing to the environment.

      • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2018 - 12:50
        +15

        Environmentalists, retailers and the government can all get stuffed.

        I will continue to use shopping bags as garbage bags and since they are unlikely to cost more than 5% of my grocery bill the savings from buying Woolworths gift cards from Cash Rewards will cover the new cost.

        Verdict. Stronger bags that will take longer to break down. Give yourself a pat on your back environmental dictators for robbing the public from choice.

        Next will be straws and then they will be after condoms.

        • HighAndDry on 20/06/2018 - 12:58
          +27

          Don't know why you're being negged. If nothing else, as this thread shows people still need bin-liners. So instead of re-using plastic bags, people are now going to be buying plastic bags which aren't going to be reused. And they're still going into the trash, same as previous plastic bags.

        • chumlee on 20/06/2018 - 13:05
          +11

          It's a cost saving excercise from coles & woolies. Don't blame anyone else.

          You can either fight it, put up with it or whinge about it.

        • Elwes on 20/06/2018 - 13:29
          +22

          The government should be legislating to help the environment but this is not the smart way to do it. They should make all disposable bags out of biodegradable materials. They might cost a little more to make but that would actually achieve something.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 20/06/2018 - 14:14
          +23

          @chumlee:

          It's a cost saving excercise from coles & woolies. Don't blame anyone else.

          The egg will be on their faces when millions of shoppers have no reason to choose them over ALDI.

        • xuqi on 21/06/2018 - 00:03
          +1

          [@Elwes](/comment/60716Making them biodegr95/redir):

          Making them biodegradable won't necessarily solve our problems:

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551212/

        • Parentheses on 21/06/2018 - 00:14
          +1

          @chumlee: It's being mandated by law, they wouldn't do it if they had any choice.

        • idonotknowwhy on 21/06/2018 - 00:53
          +5

          @HighAndDry: because most of the brainwashed population want this

        • Deridas on 21/06/2018 - 09:23
          +2

          @Parentheses:

          Not in NSW.

        • Trishool on 21/06/2018 - 10:07
          +2

          @Scrooge McDuck: Actually there still are a few reasons for choosing Woolies or Coles over Aldi: More stores and a much larger variety of products. Not to mention the petrol discounts and cash back from time to time.

        • HeWhoKnows on 21/06/2018 - 12:17

          @xuqi: Hmmm. Good point. We need to get back to the good old paper shopping bags.
          But then the environmentalists would complain about thier loss of trees.
          And what about the trillions of plastic bottles?

        • xuqi on 21/06/2018 - 12:47
          +6

          @Amayzingone:

          Trees we can plant, filtering microplastics out of the environment on a global scale is impossible.

        • lonewolf on 21/06/2018 - 14:20

          @Parentheses: It isnt the law in NSW yet.

        • nikey2k27 on 21/06/2018 - 16:42

          @Scrooge McDuck: I wish we had local ALDI coles and woolies no better then aldi now

        • ThirdRonnie on 21/06/2018 - 16:54
          +5

          @Amayzingone:

          There would not be anywhere near the number of plastic bottles if brainwashed idiots did not buy bottled water.

        • greatlamp on 21/06/2018 - 17:16

          @Elwes:
          They cost double
          From 3c to 6c (approx).

        • ely on 21/06/2018 - 17:47

          @Elwes: That would probably be sensible; you can buy biodegradable ones though, e.g. https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/229796/mul…

        • chriise on 21/06/2018 - 20:57
          +7

          @Elwes: i heard somewhere that biodegradable bags are worse because they break into small enough pieces for animals to digest. smaller pieces of plastic still take decades to degrade.

        • DannyBoy on 22/06/2018 - 00:41

          @ThirdRonnie: That's right. What's wrong with buying a bottle and reuseing it over and over plus it's way cheaper than buy bottled stuff.. just a lazy society

        • [Deactivated] on 22/06/2018 - 02:24
          +7

          @cameldownunder: You actually are highlighting another negative of the shopping bag ban. I live in a windy area and it is not un usual occurrence in winter to find the bins have been knocked over a bit of rubbish blowing about.

          Now you can imagine there is only a bit of rubbish blowing around when it is all bagged, but what about when it is loose because people are throwing things in bins without bagging them? Already just there massively increasing the amount of rubbish in the streets & finding its way into waterways etc.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/06/2018 - 02:26
          +3

          @Amayzingone: Reports I have seen point to paper bags having a greater enviro footprint than plastic. This sounds counter-intuitive but paper bags have to be made much thicker and heavier than plastic to be able to hold items without breaking. The extra material load in transporting etc has an impact.

        • Hardwood198 on 22/06/2018 - 03:17
          +4

          @lghulm:
          Correct. A paper bag has a larger environmental impact than plastic. One has to consider the entire life cycle analysis. Paper bags take far more resources (water,electricity) to produce compared to plastic. In addition, much more paper is needed to carry the same weight.

          This life cycle analysis was an interesting point taught to me in my chemical engineering degree.

          Simple google search of paper vs plastic bag.

          https://www.google.com.au/search?q=paper+bag+vs+plastic+bag&…

          In short, just because something 'is natural, biodegrades easily'… doesn't make it more environmentally friendly.

        • cameldownunder on 22/06/2018 - 08:55
          +4

          @Hardwood198:
          One thing is environment friendly, the other one is how quick it decomposes
          "Plastic grocery bags consume 40 percent less energy to produce and generate 80 percent less solid waste than paper bags. Plastic bags can take 5-10 years to decompose. Paper bags take about a month to decompose. Paper bags are made from trees, which are a renewable resource"
          Paper bags plus :
          Made from Tree - renewable source or from recycled paper
          1 month to decompose vs 10 years of plastic.
          Think about the waterways and what the impact of plastic has.
          Also there has been an increase in micro-particles in fish, and might find its way back into human food chain.

        • pinkybrain on 22/06/2018 - 10:03
          +5

          @Scrooge McDuck:

          Aldi always have charged for their bags
          So they are just saying they aren't doing anything new that Aldi hasn't done before

          People don't shop at Woolworths because you get free plastic bags.
          Never seen that as the major factor for choosing Woolworths/coles.
          People do it because of convenience and it is close to their location or they can't get the item from Aldi

          People shop at Aldi for the price saving and the special buys.

          After coles plastic bag ban in july
          You won't have much choice.

          And people will still go to their local woolworths or coles cos of the location/convenience despite the anger over the plastic bans.
          If you need some milk, bread or whatever..
          If a choice between a local woolworths/coles or driving for a further distance to an aldi..
          just get that few items, which would you choose?

          You need to take into account
          -petrol cost (cost more than a 15c bag, that you would probably have gotten by now to reused)
          -time
          -human laziness.

          Despite this initial anger, people will in the end choose what is most easiest,cheapest, convenient method for them.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/06/2018 - 08:29
          +3

          @Elwes:

          They can start banning paper catalogues for a start. Almost everyone has a smartphone and views the specials online.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 23/06/2018 - 13:13
          +1

          @pinkybrain:

          ALDI is at all of my grocery shopping centres.

          Most of my groceries are marked down meats which I buy opportunistically (in bulk to be stored in the freezer) before catching the bus home. It isn't practical to carry reusable shopping bags with me all the time for the chance that I might buy something. Often I don't even carry a bag or suitcase with me.

          So now I will have to buy thick plastic bags everytime (far more than I can reuse for shopping) or drive to the shops with reusable bags, thereby using more fuel and emitting more pollution.

        • try2bhelpful on 23/06/2018 - 13:25
          +2

          @Scrooge McDuck: We managed to buy a couple of really great bags that are made from stretchy material and scrunch up to nearly nothing - they can carry a 9 double roll of toilet paper and are quite robust.

          I also bought one of these backpacks when I was in the US.
          https://lewisnclark.com/electrolight-backpack/

          This fits well in my bum bag and I use it when I buy "emergency" groceries.

          It is not that hard to stuff a few bags into a bag you are carrying to make sure you have them when needed.

        • pinkybrain on 23/06/2018 - 13:26

          @Scrooge McDuck:

          Well now that the ban is in place…

          One july 1, all major supermarkets (Woolworths, Coles) will not have free plastic bags
          and Aldi never had any free ones to begin with.

          People have learnt to shop at Aldi without expecting free bags and they will do the same again at the other two major supermarkets.

          There won't be any choice anymore..

          So you can live with it or buy your stuff from a local grocer that may still have free bags..

          You can buy new bags or just carry a backpack with you..

          Whatever solution you take..

          You just gotta live with this reality.

          Just like the fact that we won't get FTTP NBN.

        • sintro on 23/06/2018 - 22:47
          +1

          @Scrooge McDuck:

          I didn't shop much at ALDI for a reason. They don't provide shopping bags.

          Woolies and coles should provide PAPER bags at least!

        • [Deactivated] on 23/06/2018 - 23:05

          @Trishool:

          Yes. I shop at Woolies/Coles as they offer great customer service at the self checkouts compared to Aldi that actually scan your items.

        • sweetnipples on 24/06/2018 - 09:17
          +1

          @Trishool: Petrol Discount. Bahahahaha

        • Hardwood198 on 24/06/2018 - 10:10

          @cameldownunder:

          Good points. My view is that decomposition rate is just one metric of environmental impact.

          One way to think about it is that paper bags have a higher 'initial' impact than plastic given the much higher water/material needed per bag. Also the lost potential to remove CO2 with trees being cut down. These impacts can be substantial and can outway the environmental impact through improper disposal.

          Tldr; there is little value in using a material that decomposes easily if it actually has a higher overall environmental impact in other areas.

          Bad analogy, but it's like buying an expensive fuel efficient car, justifying it due to lower savings on fuel costs but actually spending more overall due to the higher car cost.

          Aside: I would actually argue the damaging of waterways through littering and contamination is more a function of improper waste disposal. This is more of an issue in 3rd world countries rather than Australia.

        • virhlpool on 24/06/2018 - 12:17

          @cameldownunder: Do you use bin for only dry trash? What happens to your wet or damp trash?

        • tooblue on 28/06/2018 - 12:18

          @Parentheses:
          Guess who are the biggest beneficiaries to the law change. And guess who were lobbying the hardest on this change.

      • AncientWisdom on 20/06/2018 - 15:30
        +37

        People may need plastic but the idea is that when it starts costing you money you start reusing bags instead. I'm also not sure the ozbargain community is a good yard stick for how single use shopping bags are used in Australia. Sure, I reuse them as bin bags but a look at the supermarket shelves tell me that many people buy bin bags therefore the single use shopping bags must get thrown out a lot.

        Not sure why this is such a contentious subject, other countries have taken this step a long time ago and as far as I know (and can see when visiting) it is successful.

        • callum9999 on 21/06/2018 - 00:55
          +48

          @HighAndDry: I highly doubt you've even bothered to look for those studies…

          https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971…

          That took seconds to find. I believe that the fact that the majority of people are like you, and actively choose to be ignorant instead of utilizing simple tools to educate themselves, is one of the major issues facing mankind today. And I am not exaggerating.

        • cameldownunder on 21/06/2018 - 12:19
          +7

          Other countries have a recycling system that is 100 times better than Australia.
          How many plastic bottles and alu cans are being recycled?
          Separation of waste?
          Some countries you pay $4 per rubbish bag. Would not work here because people would dump the rubbish on the side of the road or in the train station bins.
          Another 10 years and Australia might be where Europe is now in regards of recycling.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/06/2018 - 02:40
          +1

          @callum9999: There are as many reports countering the positive effect of banning bags as there are that find the opposite. There are also many variables involved from location to location (e.g. where are their bags sourced from, how far from destination, to what degree are they reused etc).

          The proponents of the move themselves state that to make up for a single use of a bag a cotton reusable bag needs to be used over 100 times. Now if 60% of people go on to buy bin liners (which have more impact that the lighter bags), you might need to see 100 times grow to 200. Now if you add people using additional bags to pick up dropping from their pets there is another few times the reusable bag needs to last. Then the occasional heavy plastic bags that get purchased because you were out and about without your cotton reusable bags… it is not unrealistic to conclude that a reusable cotton bag may need to be used 300 times to make up for the plastic.

          …now consider that the WATER footprint of cotton is just about the highest of all materials you can make a bag with..

          Potable water is one of the rarest and in demand commodities on earth… and frequently areas that are used to grow cotton (poorer areas) are also home to subsistence farmers that are already water constrained and so not only do you have an environmental catastrophe in the making but a human one as well when these water resources are further tapped.

          It is overall very poorly thought out. The policy is made by activists not scientists. I left the Greens for this very reason.
          Of all the parties in Australia, including the Liberal Party that supports coal mining Green policies have the highest environmental impact.
          Believe it or not, One Nation have the most environmentally responsible policies in the nation. Doubling a population in 75 years more than doubles its environmental impact (add the infrastructure cost), and when those people have come from lower per capita carbon footprint nations to ours, there you go.

          So let me be quite clear, most environmental activists in Australia, including environmental minded political activists and parties have ZERO environmental credibility whatsoever.

        • dtc on 22/06/2018 - 13:44
          +2

          You are mixing up arguments. There is no solution at the moment that both reduces rubbish and reduces the environmental impact associated with production of the packaging.

          Banning plastic bags reduces pollution. There are many studies showing this.

          Keeping plastic bags will probably reduce the overall environmental impact of producing packaging - depending on how often people reuse their bags, what alternatives they choose etc

          Arguing that one solution creates another issue is, of course, entirely appropriate. But you need to then argue that the problems associated with the solution outweigh the benefits associated with that solution. Which you havent done (and which cant be done, because its a value judgment as to which is the better outcome)

        • HighAndDry on 22/06/2018 - 13:54
          +1

          @dtc:

          Eh. The first one is inconclusive, the second is really irrelevant:

          https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/plastic-bag-uk-sea…

          The scientists behind the new research at the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science (Cefas) have suggested the trend they observed on the sea floor could be partly a result of this action.

          I know they're scientists so they don't like speaking in certainties, but that's still a tonne of weasel words, and they're using them deliberately because the measures of placing a minimum mandatory price for plastic bags, banning them, etc have also coincided with other environmental policies and also just generally greater public awareness of the issue.

          http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-05/fewer-plastic-bags-goi…

          There has been a 36 per cent drop in the number of plastic bags going to landfill since the Territory's plastic bag ban was introduced, the ACT Government says.

          So a decrease in the number of plastic bags, but what about overall changes? A decrease in plastic bags that's offset by an increase in other equally non-biodegradable refuse such as bin liners, non-disposable shopping bags, etc - isn't an improvement.

          Not to mention - of course the government is going to talk up the positive effects of their policies. Do you believe what the government tells you normally? Why would you listen now when it's likely the same BS?

        • AncientWisdom on 23/06/2018 - 02:40
          +1

          If anything, this discussion shows it's not cut and dry, so anyone proclaiming their opinion is 100% correct is just deluded.

        • muncan on 23/06/2018 - 09:15

          @AncientWisdom: SA resident here, with a plastic bag ban having applied for years. We get free plastic bags from Coles/Woolies when they deliver our groceries. I’d like to submit my comment for the 100% correct award please.

        • AncientWisdom on 23/06/2018 - 12:58

          @muncan: that's not an opinion but fact 🙂

        • muncan on 23/06/2018 - 15:06

          @AncientWisdom: D’oh - now I’m deluded too

        • dtc on 23/06/2018 - 21:42

          @HighAndDry:

          The ACT study is a reduction in plastic bag waste by weight ie all plastic bags. Not just shopping bags

        • [Deactivated] on 23/06/2018 - 23:06
          -1

          Other countries are not cutting their emissions and don't give a stuff about the alarmists. Why can't we follow them?

        • lostn on 24/06/2018 - 18:38

          Sure, I reuse them as bin bags

          That's reusing them.

          when it starts costing you money you start reusing bags instead

          If you're reusing it for future shopping, then they're not being used as bin bags. You still need bin bags.

          but a look at the supermarket shelves tell me that many people buy bin bags therefore the single use shopping bags must get thrown out a lot.

          That's for people with bigger bins. Even still, you can use them to store things around the house.

      • dazweeja on 21/06/2018 - 09:20
        +19

        I personally think people will use less plastic bags in total, and I also think they will be far less likely to toss bags that they have paid for, especially if they have purchased them for bin liners.

        Plastic bags were the seventh most common item collected during the Ocean Conservancy’s International Coastal Cleanup for example.

        Of course, this will not eliminate plastic bags but I'm still of the opinion that there will be less of them and they will be disposed of more thoughtfully and not end up in drains, waterways and oceans. So I think this is a good thing even if it's not ideal.

        • cameldownunder on 21/06/2018 - 12:21

          Plastic bags were the seventh most common item collected during the Ocean Conservancy’s International Coastal Cleanup for example.

          yes, because they float, all the other pastic rubbish that sits on the ground ?

          Personally I see more plastic bottles than bags floating when I am on the water

        • [Deactivated] on 22/06/2018 - 02:42
          -1

          99.9999% of those bags that you reference are coming from China, India and South East Asia. They are not coming from Australia.

        • dazweeja on 22/06/2018 - 10:01
          +12

          @lghulm:

          Clean Up Australia volunteers report that 8% of the plastics they remove from our streets, parks, beaches, bushland and waterways are plastic bags.

          I see them at the beach, I see them on the banks of the creek near my place, and I'm sure there are many more washed into storm water drains and flushed out to sea.

          So what if China is worse than us? Does that mean we shouldn't fix our own problem?

        • yargnairod on 22/06/2018 - 13:46

          deleted

        • pennypincha on 22/06/2018 - 14:03

          Plastic bags were the seventh most common item collected during the Ocean Conservancy’s International Coastal Cleanup for example.

          1st most collected in my house for the past 12 months. It's a shame I can't add to my collection any further now that they're being taken away…!

        • sane on 23/06/2018 - 17:14
          +2

          Plastic bags and films made up 0.8% of the macro plastics in the oceans.

          Things like fishing nets, floats, and plastic bottles were much more important.

          Which makes sense, just how is a plastic bag going to get from your shopping into the ocean in any numbers?

          If supermarkets really cared then plastic bags would be well down the list of priorities. Overpackaging and reuse of plastic and glass bottles would be a much higher priority.

          This silly move is exactly what you get when ideologue meets business manager looking for extra profit.

        • try2bhelpful on 23/06/2018 - 18:08
          +1

          @sane: Plastic bag removal is low hanging fruit and something that can be done now and relatively easily. The last cooking appliance I received had already replaced most of the plastic packaging with cardboard equivalent and it is up to the consumers to keep pushing for better ecological packaging. As better ecological alternatives become available then they will become the default, even if they are more expensive to manufacture originally (over time the differential will go down). Without pushback we would still have asbestos used to build our homes and chemicals dumped indiscriminantly into streams. Humans are quite inventive when they are pushed. I agree with you on the push for reuse of bottles; reintroduce the deposit system. Either people will get off their backsides to get their money back or it encourages other people to collect the rubbish to get the money. The cost of disposing of a product should be built into selling it - that way money can be put towards recycing/disposal efforts upfront rather than Governments crying poor about funds later on.

        • dazweeja on 23/06/2018 - 18:14
          +1

          @sane:

          There's 3.2 billion free plastic bags given out by Woollies each year and a few billion from Coles. Let's say conservatively, 8 billion across all shops but it's probably much higher than that. This is a colossal waste of energy and resources.

          Plastic bag bans are simple and effective. The UK levy reduced the number of single use plastic bags given out by major retailers by 85%.

          The idea that we shouldn't do anything about this enormous waste because there's more waste from fishing nets in the ocean, and more waste from packaging in supermarkets, just strikes me as illogical. It just so happens that there's a simple thing we can do about this problem that's proven to be effective and has no impact on our ability to work on those other problems too (there are new systems being developed to track ownership of commercial fishing gear and Woollie's have committed to reducing packaging for example).

          Do you really think the current situation is fine and we shouldn't do anything about it?

        • sane on 23/06/2018 - 18:50

          @dazweeja:

          Plastic bag bans are simple and effective.

          You know what they say about solutions that are claimed to be simple and effective - particularly when they are evidentially not the main problem.

          As I said, plastic bags are WAY down the priority list. Overpackaging and reuse of containers come first. Once you have addressed these, IF you can come up with a sensible, workable, solution, then you look at the already reused flimsy plastic bag.

          As has been demonstrated, swapping for studier 'reusable' bags is of questionable environmental impact. Solutions that 'sound good', simple, effective, etc. rarely are.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/06/2018 - 23:09
          +1

          @try2bhelpful:

          If retailers cared about the environment they would stop selling low grade toasters and kettles that end up in landfill.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/06/2018 - 23:15

          @dazweeja: It means you show balance in identifying where the true problems exist in our society and what the best remedies are.

          In Australia that might mean addressing land use, especially immigration fed, land gobbling population growth on our city fringes.
          It might mean focussing energy on a balance between renewables & battery storage that can take out some coal baseload power.
          It might mean reducing the amount of shipping conducted through the great barrier reef.
          It might mean addressing our recycling percentages and the degree we have local capabilities to process and recycle waste.
          It might mean reducing unnecessary packaging like wrapping bananas in plastic.
          It might mean building high speed rail along the East cost and reducing by 3/4 the number of flights between Sydney-Melbourne-Canberra, also reducing the need for a second Sydney airport (and its land use impact).

          Species sustainability in Australia is under threat by increasing human use of land, not a few errant stray bags.
          Global ocean sustainability is under threat from acidification & Asian waste, not Australia's and you would find Australia's impact in this area sustainable.

          The chosen plan of outlawing plastic bags is likely to increase errant waste (rubbish in bins not securely wrapped, bins tip over) & increases the load in terms of Carbon and Water in the economy unless specious claims about user behaviour change are upheld.

          Hit the big problems, and hit the problems with effective solutions. Not insignificant problems (for Australia) with counter-productive solutions.

        • Sammy2000 on 30/06/2018 - 14:26

          @HARSHREALITY:
          Yes and cheap furniture. Bring back quality products that last (that we can buy on sale, this is Ozbargain)

      • ely on 21/06/2018 - 17:45
        +3

        There are biodegradable bin liners, which is what we'll use instead.

        https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/229796/mul…

        • Dju on 25/06/2018 - 10:06
          +5

          Please note, these are NOT BIOdegradable, they are degradable, which is just as bad as regular bags.

          https://www.1millionwomen.com.au/blog/plastic-bags-whats-dif…

        • ely on 25/06/2018 - 17:21

          @Dju: Thanks, good point.

        • ely on 25/06/2018 - 19:05

          @ely: unfortunately the link doesn't suggest anything to answer the question of what to line your bins with :-/

        • AncientWisdom on 17/07/2018 - 16:44

          Yep this does not help at all to answer the question of which bags are the best to use for bins.

      • sgtdanny69148 on 23/06/2018 - 14:34

        i pulled out an old plastic bag that i got from woolies over the week leading up to the ban and hung it up at the self serve checkout to bag my shopping and some 'hippie'came around and blasted at me for it…..

      • lostn on 24/06/2018 - 18:33
        -1

        It's a cash grab disguised as saving the environment.

        Everyone needs bags. They will continue using them, but you pay 15c for each one. This adds up over time to a lot of money.

        I'm not going to be carrying around green foldable bags everywhere I go just in case I might stop by at the supermarket as I pass by. As a man, I don't like being encumbered with things to carry.

      • Ratmuffin on 25/06/2018 - 18:23
        +1

        How fast are people actually going through their free shopping bags?? I can't believe that everyone is working at a 1:1 ratio where for every shopping bag you get from Coles/Woolies, you are completely filling it with waste.

        In our house, we probably go through 1 bin liner shopping bag for every 5ish bags of groceries brought home from the shops. Consequently, we ALWAYS have a surplus that ends up with a shopping bag stuffed full of shopping bags returned to the store every several months. I am more than happy to purchase the bin liners as we need because that way we would never end up with the inevitable surplus of bags.

        tl:dr - no-one should NEED to the numbers of bags that are being given out, so anything that cuts down on this number gets my tick of approval

        • lostn on 26/06/2018 - 14:50
          -1

          I am 1:1 or almost 1:1. I'm always running out of bags.

          I throw away things that I did not purchase from Colesworth. Things around the house, old things. Things purchased in paper bags (e.g. fast food). Things other people give me (after I've consumed it).

          Not everything I throw out was sourced from the place the bags came from.

          Back when I used a Dyson as my main vacuum cleaner, I needed a bag for every time I emptied the dust. And since that cannister is so damn small, when I fully cleaned a room that hadn't been cleaned in a while, it was more than 10 bags. I'd gone from surplus to not enough bags.

      • trapper on 25/06/2018 - 18:40
        +1

        And still selling a thousand other single use plastic products and products in plastic packaging.

    • HeWhoKnows on 21/06/2018 - 12:11

      Looks good but is that size the most compatible with the plastic shoping bags?
      I wouldnt know

  • foxmulder on 20/06/2018 - 08:43

    Buy Ikea super large bag $1 (hopefully not increase in price?), it's very handy to have around and can fit a lot of things inside.

    foxmulder on 20/06/2018 - 08:43 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    • foxmulder on 20/06/2018 - 11:09

      My bad. Off topic.

  • Ryanek on 20/06/2018 - 08:51
    +30

    You can buy 3000 of them for $39 roughly 1.3c each.

    • outlander on 20/06/2018 - 08:53
      +3

      Wow thats pretty cheap. I've been stealing them from Kmart but I might have to reconsider

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