[SOLVED] Strata Invoice Owner (Us) for Tenant Leaving Rubbish behind in Common Area When Vacating

I am just going to keep this concise but with critical informations

We own an invest property in an unit/apartment building manage by a real estate agent, a long term 3+ tennant vacating the house. The tennant have left their rubbish dumb in the common area right after they vacanted. About a week later we received a notice from strata about rubbish - mattresses, draws, racks etc was dumped from our unit which is not right and told us to remove.

Have immediately pass this notice to our agent to get the tennant to rectify the issue. Not sure this is important part to note, our agent mention to us with (his view this is not a very important notice) they suppose to pass on to every unit resident. I just remind him to ensure pass this over to tenant.

Thought this is done and dusted from everything I can do to ensure no problem. We have never been contacted since this letter issue about the rubbish dumping from strata. We have been briefly away and only come back and check mail find out strata issued us a bill $700 for cleaning up the rubbish dump by the tennant. This is now about 4 weeks since tennant left. Call up the agent the guy always with either been busy up with other work or his family matter. Had to sent these copy to the RE principal so they start believe this is pretty serious.

Obviously the cleaning up should never be $700 strata people just doing a profit here. Now it a horrible situation have to chase the RE principal. This principal mention they are chasing the tennant for the payment. Most recent phone call with RE principal the tennant mention have contacted the strata to agree to dump the rubbish in the common area when they left. Principal said current chasing tennant to request strata in writing to prove strata allow them to dump the rubbish (obvious you know 99% the tennant making it up).

Could go into a lot more on the story but these probably the critical detail about whats happen. I heard story how unreliable go to Fair Trading are toothless and eventually goes nowhere. Should we call up strata to go chase up bill to tennant or go straight to Tribunal which is so cost and time effort. Have spoken with a few friends this is very bad strata act for money grubbing from owners. charges are difficult to adjust. Not even sure this current duty strata manager have attempt to in touch with us/agent/tennant. the person may not even care.

From my situation, not even sure what I can do more to prevent the problem. The issue can be sorted so easily very early if our agent act on this right away when I pass this on to tennant as we told them. Also when the bond still held at the agent. Our goal here is to get the bill onto tennant which they obvious committed the rubbish dumping. Few people already tell us to CTTTs as totally a victim on this case but can be problematic my opinion.


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  • +3

    Have just spoken with Fair Trading today. was surprisingly helpful, not as bad as other people have said they are. When asking advise about the matter, two ways can go about this from now.

    Here is the conversation which on your side, either in touch with strata (writing prefer) that strata could not legally charge owner if the owner did not commit the rubbish offense. bill can only to tennant who committed this act. They do this commonly as they don't bother chase up the tennant who just pass onto owner who blind and paid. They can only charge the party who commit the offense and $700 cost of the job need to be explained fully. In my case there is one line about the job which they have themselves to explain. They cannot put invoice to levies payment which is illegal but that what they have done now.

    Another way is to go for submit a complaint to REA which they neglect to act as interest to this matter. fair trading investigator will act upon to contact our REA to force them to bring this case to tribunal to claim partial or my case is full rubbish invoice to tenant as long as complaint made without 6 months of the bond refund date.

    The fair trading guy from strata tenancy section urge us to make put matter into their attention that if they put invoice into levies payment. it is a big offense they are trying to crack down from many NSW strata companies at the moment. There is no obligation that we should be liable for rubbish dumping to owner when offense is made by tennant. We can bring owner corporation to tribunal if owner did not do the offense and pass invoice to owner. Invoice must go to the party who commit the offense

    Thanks for anyone input anyway. Fair Trading not as bad so far at least, have a knowhow to go about our issue now. sorry for long read and grammar

    • +2

      Good to learn, thanks for sharing the possible outcomes.

    • +3

      Great! You found someone to tell you what you wanted to hear. Now pay the invoice and move on.

      Strata didn't go to the NCAT straight away, to recover costs, they sent you the invoice to avoid further fees and costs. Strata/owners corporation has no contractual relationship with the tenant especially once they cease being a tenant.

      I assume Strata didn't send you a levy notice and added $700 to your levy which incurs 10% interest if left unpaid. They sent you a copy of the invoice with a letter asking you to pay it. There is a difference.

      This is not rubbish dumping where the tenant breached a by law and still resides in the premises so they can be issued with fines, notices, or take them to tribunal etc. The tenant vacated, dumped their rubbish and u released the tenant from obligations by releasing their bond.

      We have all maintained that the rubbish was the tenants responsibility, but it's up to you to recover it from the tenants bond. If you Real Estate Agent released their bond and you can't chase the tenant, you seek a claim from your agent.

      If you don't pay the invoice, the owners corporation can then take you as the unit owner to tribunal .. The strata schemes management Act allows the owners corporation to recover cost from you, and the Residential Tenancy Act allows you to pursue a case against your former tenant.

      nvm I'll go talk to a brick wall now.

      • -2

        they have send the invoice then another one which is the levies added the value of the invoice. We evaluate everything have heard to make a valid judgement what to do next include your message.

    • if for whatever reason you don't end up paying the bill, it will end up being paid by the building, which means you'll still pay part of it, and the rest of the owners may end up not liking you. If you need approval for something later on, they may remember this, and vote against you just to spite you.

  • +20

    mattresses, draws, racks

    A bin from bunnings is about $400 not including workers. These items are big and bulky. $700 to dispose these items sounds about right.

    Pay the invoice and add it to the deductions for this fiscal.

  • +12

    Options:

    • Ask the current agent to forgo their management fee for 3 months or however long you think is appropriate.
    • Get a new agent.
    • +8

      Agreed. I'm pretty sick of how useless property managers are. They're pretty good at collecting money from the owner, but when it comes to any issues with tenants and the properties they are absolutely pathetic

    • aside of this issue. do you know how to remove agent to manage yourself to move forward? later then look for new agent

      • Easy. Write an email/letter to the agent saying you will self-manage the property from whatever date you chose to. You will have to read the current managing agreement to determine how much notice you have to give to the current agent.

  • Seems not like an unexpected amount for a cleanup via a strata. You will have to pay it and keep chasing the REA to bill the former tenant. Fairly likely you wont receive full payment.

  • +27

    Thanks for keeping it concise. Lucky we didn't get the extended version.

    Made it to the 3rd paragraph. Your tenant so your problem to chase up. You need to pay the body corp othwerwise you should have organised your own clean up and taken it from the bond.

    • +3

      Ha, the exact same point I just scrolled to the comment section for a TL;DR.

  • +2

    Have you released the rental deposit bond. The RE should be able to claim the cost against their bond

    • the agent already gave back since he dont look into the problem perhaps at the early stage.

  • +8

    The answer is you need to get your agent to do their job and seek $700 from the bond, but since they have failed, you can chase them, or give up and pay. It seems like a good time to look for a new agent.

    $700 does seem high, but consider if somebody left you a big mess, how much time and effort would you spend getting the best deal if you knew you could bill them for the clean up, but not the time spent chasing up the deal. Consider that arranging the clean up, after both you, and your agent, and your tenant all failed to, is a hassle, and the high fee also acts as an incentive for other owners to make sure places they are responsible for are kept clean.

    If the fee was $10, I suspect you would often see piles of rubbish left around your building by lazy tenants. That would be a poor outcome.

    • -7

      the strata people did not mention or even attempt to contact us about this. they like set up the trap to profit from it. i cant even get to property myself.

      can you remove an agent to manage yourself at the time being while look for new agent?

      • +19

        The strata, commonly a management company, represents all the residents/owners of the building.

        Rubbish amassed in a hallway is an urgent problem. You mention you received a letter and you have been away for a time.

        Apart from informing your agent, you did nothing more to ensure the issue is rectified.

        It is hardly a trap. Your tenant is sloppy, your agent is questionable and you as a landlord are negligent.

        • -2

          l could not possible be there to see whats happen the tennant done. l cant get the contact of the tennant from agent dont give it out to us. we would definitely call ourselves if i have it.

          We did not even receive contact from strata about their intention to remove them. you feel like they are waiting for you to fall. we cant be there to know whats going on.

        • +5

          @leehungfei:
          You not being able to call the tenant is between you and your property manager. It has nothing to do with the strata.

          Calling the tenant and the tenant not cleaning up their mess will still be your liability. Still nothing to do with the strata.

        • -1

          @tshow: l have two agent so far both dont disclose tennant details. so not sure they want to give you. so you tell me can directly ask for their detail from your experience?

        • +2

          @leehungfei: If you can't attend to the property physically, why are you considering self-managing the property? (as per your comment above, "aside of this issue. do you know how to remove agent to manage yourself to move forward? later then look for new agent")

        • +6

          @leehungfei: It doesn't matter if you can or can't. It's your responsibility. Strata's job is to maintain the property - not to supervise your tenants. Guess whose job that is.

        • @bdl: This!

      • I don't see a trap here. They sent you a letter and expected you to follow up (which you didn't). Personally I would have contacted the local council to see if they could do a hard rubbish collection. I don't know what area you are in but we get 2 a year. From memory there are charities that take old mattresses too and recycle them.

        I think you need to ditch that agent too. They didn't do their job and are now avoiding you.

    • +5

      $700 does seem high

      Its part cleanup fee, part fine for dumping rubbish normally.

  • +6

    You are responsible for your tenant, other owners should not have to pay for it. Strata gave u the opportunity to get rid of the rubbish. You trusted it Real Estate Agent and ignored the letter.

    You need to understand that rubbish attracts more rubbish, and certain items like mattresses are charged by the item at the dump. $700 does seem about right for labor, dump fees etc. If u think it could have been done cheaper, you should have actively sort to get that done.

    Pay the invoice and work it out with your real estate. If you still hold tenants bond, claim from that. Strata has an obligation to recover cost from offending unit owner as u r responsible for your tenant. They also have the right to charge their time costs and debt recovery cost from you if u ignore it further.

    P.s. strata does not need to contact the tenant or your agent, the tenant is your responsiBility and you offloaded that responsibility by engaging in an agent. The agent failed in their duty. Strata only has to deal with you.

    Keep everything between you and the real estate agent in writing.

    • i was told to bring this to tribunal. so is this agent principal. l don't trust the agent but can't get the contact from tennant and i would contact if by myself.

      what are the effort and outcome from this if go tribunal? who claim against for this case? agent, tennant or strata.

      • +26

        A lot of people can tell you a lot of things, many people here have also told you a lot. You chose to hear what you want to hear, then that is fine. As a former Strata Manager (I have not been in the Strata Industry for 8+yrs but was practicing for over 10yrs)

        My advice to you is, stop complaining to Strata, pay the fine, take your Real Estate Agent to tribunal for negligence. Yes this is principal and agent between you an your Real Estate Agent. The Principal Agent agreement with Strata is between the Owners Corporation and the Strata Agent. The Strata Agent represents the interests of the Owners Corporation not the individual owner.

        If you take strata to tribunal, you will lose and add to your costs. You admitted Strata sent you a letter and on the advice of your Real Estate Agent, chose to do nothing, forcing Strata to take action to remove the rubbish. Because you dont live there and is unaffected, that doesnt mean other residents need to put up with an unsightly dump caused by your tenants. Rubbish attracts rodents, pests, more rubbish and is a fire hazard. Not to mention also devalues the property if some other owners is having an open house during the period. Strata Living is about harmony within the shared space, your tenant breached it, you and your agent did nothing to rectify it. You not having your tenants details has nothing to do with Strata, they sent you a letter, you approached your Real Estate.

        Now, after the fact, there are many should have, would have, could have .. but none seems to lead to your accepting responsibility for the tenant and agent you chose. If you do not like how Owners Corporation works, dont buy into strata units.

        • +1

          Vert good post Sofie!
          ~ shake hand ~

  • +21

    Actually concise version

    Tenants vacated leaving behind unwanted furniture in shared area of a unit/apartment. Landlord (OP) was informed by strata manager to rectify the issue. The message was conveyed to the property manager whilst the tenants were still occupants. Issue unresolved.

    Strata arranged for removal at the cost of $700 to the landlord. Property manager has failed to recoup cost from tenants and landlord now wants the property agent to be liable for the cost. Bond refunded to tenant.

    End

  • +6

    Here's how things work:
    1. I live in the same building as your investment property.
    2. I see a bunch of trash in the common bin, where they should not be.
    3. I call up strata manager and file a complaint.
    4. Strata manager contacts property owner (you) to clear it up.
    5. Nothing has been done after a while, strata manager send a job to contractor to clear them up. Strata manager does not do clean up themselves.
    6. Contractor send the bill ($700) to the strata manager.
    7. Strata manager send the bill to you (your agent in this case).
    8. Your agent pays up, and deduct from your rental payment.

    Whose fault?
    Your tenant - dump their white goods when they are not supposed to.
    Your agent - not following up. Well, most REA are not famous for their proactive behavior.
    You - For not following up at all. You could periodic check with your REA, and if they didnt have it done, you could call your council to have the white goods removed. Most councils allow 1 white good cleap up per year.

    What can you do?
    Pay the $700. There is nothing you can do about it now. Have your agent file a small claim from the previous tenant (of course you need to pay them to do this paperwork). Change your REA.

    • what small claim you refer to? is this going to tribunal to file a case?

      • -1

        small claim tribunal

        https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/other-helpful-agencies/sm…

        honestly, unless you really hate your ex-tenant, just pay the $700 and write it off in your tax filing. It's investment property anyway. Do you really want so much trouble for yourself?

        • ok. might consider this but how is this case claim against. the tennant dumping or agent not chase up the issue?

  • +4

    I don’t get what’s stopping the agent from doing their job. If they are “busy” with family stuff then they should take annual leave. That guy needs to be fired. Tell the RE principal that you want a new property manager.

    Just pay the invoice and then call the agent every day to find out if they’ve gotten the money back from the tenant.

  • I assume there is an OSM given that's an apartment.

    Did you not use the Onsite Manager to manage your Property? I always find this is the start of all problems.
    First off, the OSM lives onsite and would have a relationship with the Tenants, much more than an Outside Agent.
    What could have happened is prior to moving out, the OSM would have told the Tenants on what's the right thing to do.
    Or able to stop them while doing the act.

    I must declare that I am an OSM but I dont say the above because I want to make profit.
    This is purely common sense and I speak from personal experience. Not once, but several times.

    Two years ago we have a property managed by OA.
    There had been little issues around the Complex, but we were between a rock and a hard place, so never tipped off the Owners who didnt want to know us.
    On moving-out day, the Tenants dumped a big Queen mattress right next to our mailbox!
    We had no choice but to tell them it's not allowed.
    They then moved it to the street, our side of the street.
    We then approached them and offered Dump Vouchers as it is again, not right, and it's not kerbside collection day until months later.
    Any suggestion on what they did?
    They moved it to the other side of the road!

    • -1

      sorry what is osm? how that help my current issue now

      • On Site Manager.

        It doesn't help the situation you are in now, just a cool story.

      • Sorry it wont "exactly" help your situation now.
        Except maybe to help you understand how people see it from the other side of the fence.
        The kind of nuisance it has caused others might help you to decide on what action you want to take.
        The Courts will examine from all angles so it will be useful if you are more empathetic.

        But it will certainly help with your future when you find new PMs or Tenants.

  • +3

    I am just going to keep this concise

    Then posts a wall of text….. yikes

    Obviously the cleaning up should never be $700 strata people just doing a profit here

    Its just like a parking fine, the cost isn't just about covering the costs of the removal, its about stopping people doing it.

    Our goal here is to get the bill onto tennant which they obvious committed the rubbish dumping

    From your wording, it seems the bond has been released already? If so, your boat has sailed. You're now the owner of the bill. It is your apartment after all.

    Ask your agent to cover it for failing to do their job, otherwise you have to take it to small claims. Most likely not worth the hassle and stress.

  • anyone can tell me how to remove our agent? we like to manage ourselve at this time until we find another one in soon future

    • Self managing isn’t a good idea. You just need to find a property manager that will actually do their job…

      Just call the agent and say you want to live in the unit and won’t require their services anymore.

      Also try and speak with your current property managers’ boss or the managing partner of the agent. Sounds like they need a kick up the bum and a good telling off so they do their job in the future.

      • I can't tell the agent i live there as they got the new (current tennant) for us. me currently mainly dealing principal. they yet get me back the progress.

        don't trust them anymore so got little choice. so like i say remove them now then find another along after this issue which hope can sort

        i can't see worst manage ourselves now than pass on to this useless agent

        • Write a letter/email advising that you no longer need their services. Doesn't matter if the current agent got you the new/current tenant. It's your property, if you wish to terminate the managing agreement, you can do so. But as per my post above, if you are unable to physically visit the property, good luck trying to self-manage.

        • Have a look at your current agreement with them.
          It should list all the terms regarding appointment and termination, the notice period required etc….

        • @bdl: yes. we will plan time to manage ourselve. just never thought will come to this. will need to find time and effort to check if self manage. far from us but still possible. just it don't serve any good keeping them further from this problem

        • @Pumpkin_rrr: yeh. just wonder how we can collect rent and bonds tennant details and others once hand over back to us.

        • +5

          @leehungfei: I mean - this is why you get an agent, because you don't know how to do these things yourself. And this is what agents charge for - for knowing how to do these things.

        • +2

          You get a new agent and get them to do the transfer of contracts keys everything

          You don't self manage.

          You know those disaster stories on the news about bad tenants… they're almost always self managed investors

        • @leehungfei:

          Next post: I'm self managing my investment property - the Tennant's aren't paying rent and have been using it as a meth house… OzBargain please rescue my situation.

        • @borrisz0r: You forgot the obvious! It'll also have:

          "Strata charged me $1,600 to professionally clean the place of meth residue, fix the hole in the wall from the meth lab, and didn't even notify me first so I could fix it myself!"

        • +1

          @HighAndDry:

          Correction … OP would be saying "they sent me a letter, idont have an agent, I thought it wasn't serious, and ignored it. It's not fair they charge me without warning, the bond is not enough to cover no rent paid and my damages. Fair trading so nice, said strata should chase the tenant" lol

  • You're responsible to Strata for the rubbish removal fees. It's your responsibility that nothing is dumped on common property to begin with, Strata doesn't have to notify you, give you a chance to clean up, etc - they did their job by cleaning it up and invoicing you.

    Your tenant is responsible to you to reimburse the costs of the clean up.

    Your agent is responsible to you to make sure that the tenant pays you what they should have.

    You can claim against the tenant for the amount, you can claim against the agent for the amount if they were negligent in not recovering it from the tenant.

  • +1

    Did the agent not notice all the garbage dumped when they went to do the inspection prior to releasing the bond?

  • Savills from Gordon nsw is pretty useless too

    Three weeks to rectify a maintainence problem and to date no replies

    Landlords shouldn’t be paying these ass holes to do nothing

  • +1

    If after 3 years good tenancy you have to whinge about a tax deductible $700.- maybe you should consider not having an investment property.

    • Pretty much this!

      If you don't want an asset that requires some active management - go buy shares! Don't own property (note - not have a go at the poster). Property as an investment gives greater control than shares (where you only really decide when to buy and when to sell) but obviously there can be downsides. If you own a property there may be additional (big) costs - this is a fact of life. The good thing are these are mostly tax deductible.

    • I think that's really an indictment of the general level of renters than saying anything about OP.

  • Pay the Strata and deduct the payment from the bond. Isn't that simple?

    • The bond has already been given back to the tenant I think.

  • As the owner you are ultimately responsible; now how your agent handled this is a separate issue.

    You need to pay, then decide what actions to take in regards to agent. If you think they've seriously dropped the ball then drop them.

  • Thread closed per OP, marked as Solved.

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