[AMA] I'm Working for a Not for Profit Aged Care Provider as a Revenue Officer

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  CMH on 20/08/2018 - 13:08

  How do you spot an Aged Care Provider that's just out to squeeze every last dollar from their clients?

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    s00107546 on 20/08/2018 - 13:16

    There are several Aged Care Provider finder website that would help you to see what each of these provider offer.

    Generally, for those that received Funding from Medicare, they have to follow what are outlined in the Aged Care Act.

    https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00241

    They can't charge you for what hasn't been agreed prior.

    Some providers may charge a resident a significant amount for something so call "additional services" but then again, if you don't use it you don't pay for it.

    It is highly recommend that you read the agreement contract thoroughly. Raise your concern for something you think that would disadvantage you with the provider and have the contract amended where applicable.

    • 

      Diji1 on 20/08/2018 - 17:08

      I think what they're saying is the Aged Care Act is not effective in stopping abuse happening so therefore how would you spot it?

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        HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 17:17

        I mean, OP works as a Revenue Officer - I think they might know more about fee structures, planning for costs, understanding what's included, etc, than possibly other aspects of the industry.

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        s00107546 on 21/08/2018 - 09:57

        Hi Diji1, overall, Act is just Act, it is up to the provider whether they enforcing it. Same with our laws, it is there, but not everyone following it.

        However, Aged Care provider now have to face un-announce audit from an independent agency (used to be announced) for accreditation purpose. If you are found with non compliance, there will be penalty and sanction of which will affect the provider funding. This is more to the operation and clinical side of the industry of which I wouldn't be the right person to give advice or answer.

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  Godric on 20/08/2018 - 13:12

  Why are elders in nursing homes treated like prisoners

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    s00107546 on 20/08/2018 - 13:17

    Do you mean by they live in a locked facility ?

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    s00107546 on 20/08/2018 - 13:18

    I can't speak for other providers out there but am aware of some places treat their resident unethically.

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    TheBilly on 20/08/2018 - 14:27

    +2

    Alot of these patients are under dementia care, so they are not of the right state of mind. Believe it or not some of the providers I have had experience with have a regular problem with attempted suicides and mistaken deaths. It's just like a child in a childcare center if left un-attended they are at risk. There are different levels of care, some very relaxed with resort style living where effectively it is just another apartment block or town houses but the only difference is everyone is over 55 all the way through to some with a full blown lock down of patients. I've actually designed these facilities and worked with aged care clients and they have to think about every minor detail for the safety of the patients, such as what side should doors be locked from and accessible from, cross rails in cupboards shouldn't be screwed in too tight in case somebody tries to hang themselves, colour selection on walls and doors as some bright colored environments trigger certain patients to name just a few, all the while they have to implement things like this but make the environment as homely as possible.

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      s00107546 on 20/08/2018 - 14:30

      spot on

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  tsunamisurfer on 20/08/2018 - 13:46

  A friend of mine is trying to put his mother into a home, Juniper I think.

  I almost spat out my drink when told of the 6 figure sum required just to get in.

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    s00107546 on 20/08/2018 - 13:52

    What type of care are they applying for ?

    For Independent Living, there is a lumpsum amount called "ingoing contribution" that required to be paid in full before you can move in.

    For residential care, the accommodation can be pay in 3 ways:

    *Lumpsum RAD - full room price payment that is refundable in full when you exit the facility
    *Combination RAD+ DAP - part pay the room price (the paid amount is also refundable as above), the remain balance will be calculated to a daily payment
    *Daily payment DAP : you pay a daily accommodation accordance to room price.

    Calculation is as below: example the room price is $500K

    DAP = $500K * MPIR 5.96% / 365 days = $81.64/ day

    You can choose any of the said options, a provider can not force you to choose one.

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  MickeyRules on 20/08/2018 - 14:03

  Hi, My Mother is in an aged care facility in South Australia.
  She went in before the rules changed so she did not pay a bond, she had gifted a large amount of money and to make things easier we didn't tell the facility how much money she had we just agreed to pay the maximum accommodation charge which was $34.20 a day and she was paying an income tested fee of $3.39.
  After a couple of years she moved facilities and all payments remained the same.
  After 5 years centrelink didn't deem Mum to have the money she gifted anymore so she went onto a full pension and the income tested fee was dropped.
  My question is. Can I renegotiate the Accommodation charge now that Mum has less money ?
  Thanks

  • 

    s00107546 on 20/08/2018 - 14:10

    +1

    hi, it appears that your mother was deemed as a Concessional Resident. This status doesn't change.

    With Concessional resident, the provider will be advised by Medicare of how much they can charge for Accommodation Fee (as a discounted fee rate). Hence you won't be able to negotiate this amount with the provider.

    If you are struggling to pay for the Basic Daily Care Fee and Accommodation Fee you can contact Centrelink Assessment Team and request them to reassess your Income and Assets. Or you could apply for a Financial Hardship assistance with Centrelink.

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      HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 17:18

      If you are struggling to pay for the Basic Daily Care Fee and Accommodation Fee

      Pretty sure they're not struggling since mum "gifted" a large sum of money before going into the home.

      • 

        s00107546 on 21/08/2018 - 08:18

        That, I can't make any comment.

        Given the cost in aged care, in a certain way, it would be understandable that they might have used up that money (if it wasn't invested).

        As per the provided info, their fee is about $2600/month (core fees) not including any additional fees. Plus, if the resident need surgery or additional adhoc treatment, it would be out of their pocket. The provider doesn't pay that.

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        HighAndDry on 21/08/2018 - 09:54

        @s00107546:

        it would be understandable that they might have used up that money

        Doubtful. Seems from this:

        she had gifted a large amount of money and to make things easier we didn't tell the facility how much money she had

        She did it obviously to rort the means-testing part of the system.

      • 

        s00107546 on 21/08/2018 - 10:02

        @HighAndDry: I do see your view but there are few aspects in here:

        • Under no obligation, the family need to disclose their financial wealth to the provider (after admission) and it is up to the family to disclose that to Centrelink. They can withheld this information but Centrelink will catch up with this in no time especially if the gifted money was from an estate.

        I'm certainly not protecting anyone here but only wanted to give a fair view.

        As per my below reply to #Iratepirate, there is disadvantage to those that chosen this route.

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        HighAndDry on 21/08/2018 - 10:06

        @s00107546: As there should be. The system is a safety net and for people who can't afford their own care. It's certainly not a free services system and if people use it as one, the system will become unsustainable. There's no "fair" view here - it's a choice between using a system for those who need when you actually need it, or when you don't, but pretend you need it.

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        s00107546 on 21/08/2018 - 10:17

        +1

        @HighAndDry: I do agree with you as some point.

        For Aged Care, not everyone can use this type of service as they wanted to. In other for you to get into an funded aged care facility, you need to be assessed by ACAT (Aged Care Assessment Team) to determine which care you are eligible for (Residential, respite or homecare). If you are approved for any of the 3 cares, it would mean that you actually need care.

        As explained, there are a benefit and disadvantage of withholding your financial wealth with Centrelink.

        To me, the one system that being abused the most is Home Care and NDIS. I do manage the HomeCare side of the business but decided not to include it in this topic due to different reasons.

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  iratepirate on 21/08/2018 - 07:32

  I advise people to plan ahead and not have a cent to their name if they enter into aged care.

  The department will look back into their finances five years looking for the disposal of assets so if your parents are getting on see a financial advisor now and put their assets into a family trust.

  Depending on the level of care required and the length of stay that "not for profit" aged care provider may very well take everything they've spent their lives earning.

  As an aside s00107546 I hope you use the very generous salary sacrifice arrangements you are entitled to, working for a charity!

  • 

    s00107546 on 21/08/2018 - 08:32

    There are a few options that you could take.

    The method that you mentioned above, most people would think that way but you would need to consider the outcome of it.

    Benefit:
    If you move all your money around and have little to none under your name, as a result, you will be classified as a low mean resident (then there are 2 tiers, partly supported and fully supported). Your benefit from this is you won't have to pay mean tested fee and only pay a discounted amount of accommodation fee.

    Disadvantage: this will limit your choice of which room you like. A provider won't let you stay in a room where they priced at $500K. Your choice would be limited to small room, shared room or facilities where they only take concessional residents.

    With your second point, length of stay is irrelevant in residential aged care, as once they moved in it is very rare that they will go home from there. You might have thought of Respite care (short stay). Again, the provider (whom receiving Medicare Funding) can only charge you what is allowed under the Act.

    *Edited: I just realised what you meant. The average life span of an resident in aged care is around 3 years and have now reduced to 2-3 years.

    Moreover, this is the reason why I made this topic so that I could assist those that still in the unclear.

    Last point, for not for profit company, the employees are allowed to have salary packaging but for a small portion of their wages only not all. For my personal salary, it is on the market average.

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  DyByDx on 03/12/2019 - 15:27

  hi, What is the average salary of "Revenue Officer" role in general now a days?

  • 

    s00107546 on 03/12/2019 - 23:06

    it is vary and depends on the industry that you are in.

    In my own experience, Revenue/AR officer outside of Aged care health care industry usually has salary range around $55K to 65k depends on your experience and the job requirement.

    In Aged care, it is quite specialized and require knowledge in the industry rules, fee, funding structures. With experience,in my view you should expect your salary to be abit higher than above.

    P/s: I have since moved on from the Revenue Officer role but still in the same industry.