Explaining Piracy under Moral and Ethical Grounds

Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 18:44
Last edited 24/08/2018 - 19:26 by 1 other user

The biggest bargain is getting things for free. But sometimes getting free things aren't always through the correct methods.

I have a family member who claims they are a very moral and ethical person, however is happy to pirate and illegally stream content at any moment's notice.

How do you explain to someone that piracy is bad?

Some ways I've tried to explain to him:

  1. It is just like stealing.
    Rebuttal: It isn't stealing, if I steal your iPhone, you can't use it. If I watch this, it is still available online for the person who has it.

  2. Under law it is illegal for someone to stream content they don't own.
    Rebuttal: TAB broadcasts sports all the time on their screens, why can't some random person do it too? (I did mention enterprise agreements which allow them to broadcast content).

  3. Movies cannot be downloaded and watched UNLESS you own a real copy of it.
    Rebuttal: You can also give people your physical DVD of a movie too, so why can't people give digital DVDs too? (I mentioned different licencing rules between physical and digital distributions)

  4. You are stealing money from content creators!
    Rebuttal: Who cares? They are rich. They won't miss my money. I'm just one person.

Essentially he is turning a blind eye to it because it is convenient (and cheaper) than to get the content through proper means.

I don't mind if he continues after he knows he's wrong, but at least own up to your own flaws. It gets on my nerves that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Entertainment

closed Comments

  • Doggiie on 25/08/2018 - 17:09
    +1

    Thanks guys for your input. I realise that I shouldn't be imposing my thoughts onto him. Thread closed.

  • Sage on 24/08/2018 - 18:46
    +8

    How do you explain to someone that piracy is bad?

    You don't.

    Does your family member ever pay for any media though?
    I think it's better to have a balance. I can't imagine blindly buying Blu rays, games and music just to see what they're like.
    Better to pirate a large net of content and pay for select favourites.
    The media industry is booming bigger than ever, piracy helps to spread awareness of content which in turn relates to actual sales.

    • Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 19:39
      +2

      He does not buy any media because why should he when it is so readily available online?

      • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 25/08/2018 - 05:00
        +4

        "Explaining Piracy under Moral and Ethical Grounds"

        The Somalians make terrific pirates.

      • anonymous01 on 25/08/2018 - 13:41
        +1
        • It is just like stealing.
          Yes! Just like cinemas charge you $20+ for a movie ticket, and soft drinks and popcorns are marked 500%. They are stealing from us.
          Big companies like Disney forcing cinemas to to give them 65% of the revenue. It's a dog eat dog world, we are at the bottom of the food chain and feel satisfied of the small bites we can take out of our predators.

        Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/02/star-…
        https://www.marketwatch.com/story/disney-is-forcing-theaters…

        • Under law it is illegal for someone to stream content they don't own.
          It should be illegal for them to force us to see crap (Advertisements) we don't want to see. If you pay for pay-tv, why do they force you to see ads? You think paytv (no need to name) is an innocent company? F them.. they buy all the sports rights and force free to air channels to be without sports! how Aussie is that? So they can sell you sports package with extra $$.. oh and you can't just have sports package. You need to have basic package which you can't remove from your subscription.

        • Movies cannot be downloaded and watched UNLESS you own a real copy of it.
          I agree that you should pay for watching it. If you think cinema's are overpriced, then wait for it to be added to Netflix, or when it becomes cheaper, buy a dvd. But like I said earlier, some people don't feel guilty about downloading because they know how evil big corporations are. This somewhat justifies for them.

        • You are stealing money from content creators!
          Are you though? This is a very grey area. Let's say everyone who couldn't get it for free, would they still buy it? Let's say 40% people pay for it, and 60% download it illegally. If it was a physical product, that number of people who buy would be around 42% - 45%. Most people get it just because it's free (like my steam library, thanks to you folks). Content creators get little less money, but lot more exposure. Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, I think that depends on you.

  • robbyjones on 24/08/2018 - 18:50
    +23

    You need to let it go, you are not in control of how another person thinks and feels about something. You have given your viewpoint to try to persuade them, it didn't work, move on, it isn't life threatening afterall.

  • chumlee on 24/08/2018 - 18:52
    +8

    The Catholic church claims to be very moral and ethical. How do you explain their crimes to them?

    • Diji1 on 24/08/2018 - 19:53
      +4

      God works in mysterious ways like moving paedophiles around countries instead of reporting them to police.

      Apparently the Catholic church is still the largest provider of education and recieves the largest amount of money from the government to educate wealthy people's children showing that parents in Australia are … WHAT THE (profanity) ARE YOU DOING, PARENTS? YOU CHOSE THE SCHOOLS THAT MAKE UP THESE FIGURES!

      Apparently repeatedly allowing paedophiles to operate isn't enough to make parents send their children to cheaper government school, they still need the bejesus education.

    • anonymous01 on 25/08/2018 - 15:27

      Apparently, it's not a crime if you confess and god forgives you.

      • ozzpete on 25/08/2018 - 17:16

        Apparently, catholics can do very wrong and morally corrupt deeds, then pay $$ or do 'penance' and it all fine :/ .
        I do 3 hail mary's every time I download pirate porn ;) Arrrrrr

  • hawkeye on 24/08/2018 - 19:04
    +3

    If an orange tree makes an orange it has to use the same amount of energy and time to make another.
    If a builder builds a house he has to use the same amount of materials and time to make another.
    Where in the hell do electronic artists come from thinking their above nature and the rest of us.
    Fair days work for a fair days pay not times by 3 billion. Bill Gates and the rest.
    Bono from U2 we should all help Africa but not from his 3 billion dollar stash.
    I'm just starting

    • Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 19:43

      The cost of an electronic artist's work is significantly higher, i.e. they need to outlay their funds into the potential risk trying to sell the product. I do agree that the marginal cost once the content is complete is close to $0. They aren't above nature, they are just a different model.

      • Kangal on 24/08/2018 - 23:42
        +3

        Kid, your dad knows it better.
        Making electronic arts is easier, quicker, and cheaper than many other art forms. And with the amount of demand and competitors "the market" would cause it to hit rock bottom prices and massive saturation levels.

        Yet it isn't.
        Why? Simply because there are many billionaires/millionaires from inheritance back when the industry required a lot of talent and imagination and the content creation was truthfully expensive. Those same group of people have bought the politicians and the law makers to rig the game. The hideous part is that this is common knowledge and people have come to expect living with it.

        A lot of things about "the movies" has gotten consistently worse over time, and consistently cheaper, yet they've been asking for higher and higher and higher prices. Simple answer is greed. And I'm not saying something along the lines of a $100,000 movie now only costs $95,000…no the actual costs are a kin to a drop to $5,000. Yet the studios now claim that $100,000 movie is costing them $10,000,000 instead and its because that $9,990,000 is all "fluff". Some of the best writing comes from volunteers/fanfics and underrated novels. Some of the best visual techniques are pioneered by producers of indie short-films. None of these real artists benefit from the $10Million price. The people that do are the stockholders, managerial positions, large marketing departments, and top-list actors. Even people that do pyrotechnics and stunt works are often underpaid, and sometimes not paid AT ALL.

        So from a morality point of view, it is perfectly good to pirate a movie. That really is the truth. Yet, I do not condone it.
        Simply because these rich jerks can fine you/ruin your life. And that you should be "better" than them and try to extract entertainment from other sources like reading, volunteering and sports; the three most under-rated activities of this generation.

        If anything else, check out YouTube. Just giving people the freedom to make and show their own content has upper-cut Hollywood, as it has significantly devalued to cost of Video Entertainment. Hence why Hollywood hates (the old) Google. And now Hollywood is struggling to get a grip on their overvalued nest egg, and they refuse to change with the times…. case in point: Disnep.

    • AddNinja on 25/08/2018 - 13:07

      You are paying for a service, not for an object like a house. Think of someone waxing your car. Are you paying for their time or the wax they used. Would they feel ripped off if you just paid for the wax?

      • Jolakot on 25/08/2018 - 15:37

        Kind of a false analogy, the person waxing your car can't sell that time more than once.

  • PissLUR on 24/08/2018 - 19:09
    +1

    why do you feel that you have the need to explain that person?

    • Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 19:46
      +3

      Because he is my dad.

      • follow on 24/08/2018 - 19:57
        +13

        plot twist

        • Livert on 25/08/2018 - 15:08

          Directed by m knight shamalamadingdong.

      • spackbace on 24/08/2018 - 20:11
        +9

        Fk that.

        Make sure your moral compass is 100% straight before questioning your dads.

        The fact this has extended beyond 1 conversation between father and son amazes me.

        • mskeggs on 24/08/2018 - 21:36
          +9

          Dad might be gently trying to show kid that there is more than one way of looking at issues, before kid goes off and starts telling other people how to live their lives.

          I was a know it all teen! (and know it all middle aged person…so it didn't work with me)

        • spackbace on 24/08/2018 - 21:38
          +1

          @mskeggs:

          Except op is a uni graduate - old enough to know better. Unfortunately maybe not knowledgeable in human interactions

        • mskeggs on 24/08/2018 - 21:39
          +4

          @Spackbace:
          Even more urgent then!

          Pirating must be immoral.
          In summing up, it’s the constitution, it’s Mabo, it’s justice, it’s law, it’s the vibe and aah no that’s it, it’s the vibe. I rest my case.

        • bobbieb on 25/08/2018 - 06:33
          +5

          This.

          The world would be a much nicer place if people would simply keep their arbitrary moral principals, beliefs in fictitious deities, etc to themselves.

          I totally respect your right to believe whatever you like, on whatever matter your like, but it takes a special kind of ignorance to believe you have the right to pontificate at others.

          Healthy debate is one thing, but "How do you explain to someone that XXXXX is bad?" is one step from being a zealot.

          Seriously and respectfully, the best life advice that we can give you is this: Unless someone's beliefs poses an immediate threat to the health and well-being of themselves or others, then keep your morality to yourself.

        • AddNinja on 25/08/2018 - 13:14

          @bobbieb: It is ok to explain your morality to others and to judge them too if you like. It might create conflict, but sometimes doing nothing does too. Secondly, piracy, while in my view not a very serious crime at all, is theft - and no amount squirming can make it otherwise. It is not some arbitrary belief.

      • leiiv on 25/08/2018 - 11:14

        What have caused you to have a different point of view from your dad? Wouldn't you have grown up watching all the free movies downloaded by your dad?

  • Axelstrife on 24/08/2018 - 19:10
    +8

    Are you sure he's not just being nice by not telling you to mind your own damn business?

    With the way media like movies and tv shows are delivered to Australians you cannot expect us to wait days, weeks, months for TV shows/movies to become available legally and then to pay extreme amounts for it with such poor service like that.

    I'll stick with my plex media server with 1300+ movies and 13500+ tv show episodes and continue to support those services (netflix and prime video) for delivering content at the same time as the rest of the planet.

    • Godric on 24/08/2018 - 19:47

      100%, let alone to stream your own content using PLEX remotely from any where in the world, to watch what you want and when

  • josetann on 24/08/2018 - 19:16
    +2

    Morality ≠ Legality

    • Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 19:44
      -4

      I'm aware of that. I'm not suing him. I just want him to be aware that it is completely good and dandy. But once aware, you can feel free to continue doing it if you wish.

      • josetann on 24/08/2018 - 19:49
        +12

        You're arguing that it's not legal. He's arguing that it's not immoral. Have you considered the possibility that you're both right?

        • Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 19:53
          -5

          It's hard to explain morals to someone. I don't even see why this is a not immoral. I feel (and I guess that's the problem) that it is definitely immoral, and I just want him to be ware of it.

          Maybe I am blind to his argument too then. But I just feel like he just doesn't want to see the truth because it is convenient.

        • josetann on 24/08/2018 - 19:58
          +6

          @Doggiie: It may be immoral to you. It obviously is not to him.

          Some people believe that eating meat is immoral. I'm not one of those people. You can "explain" your morals to me until you're blue in the face, I'm still going to eat bacon and not feel bad about it.

        • rompastompa on 24/08/2018 - 20:20

          @Doggiie: Put the following poll on post above:

          I don't understand and believe it's immoral
          I don't understand and believe it's not immoral
          I understand and believe it's immoral
          I understand and believe it's not immoral

          I believe most of the OzBargain users are technologically aware..

        • afoveht on 25/08/2018 - 02:44

          @josetann:

          If you don't "feel bad" about this then you're a dunce.

        • Nick939 on 25/08/2018 - 04:14
          -1

          @thevofa:

          REEEEEE

        • Seedy seed on 25/08/2018 - 06:18
          +2

          @Doggiie: immoral is putting that "you wouldnt steal a handbag crap on all my dads i bought EVEN THOUGH I PAID..

          Then it turns out they pirated that anyway… Bugger em.

        • bobbieb on 25/08/2018 - 11:29

          @Doggiie:

          Morals are completely subjective… there is no truth. What you're trying to do is impose your beliefs on someone else.

          Mate, seriously… you come across as well intended, but your outlook on the world is concerning. This sort of attitude will at best, ostracize you from your friends and family. Worst case… well, I won't go there, but if you were someone that I cared about, I would be very fearful that someday, someone will take advantage of your rather limited world view and get you into serious trouble.

        • Nick939 on 25/08/2018 - 15:39

          @Nick939:

          So people up vote the vegan propaganda and down vote my sufficient response to it. More dunces in the world than I first thought.

  • spackbace on 24/08/2018 - 19:19

    Let them be, it's their life and it's not impacting on you

  • iluvpizza on 24/08/2018 - 19:48
    +9

    what about the morality of a company like Foxtel who had a monopoly on the industry sector for years & years & took full advantage of that by charging unreasonable prices? They still do have a monopoly with shows exclusive to them eg GOT.

  • subywagon on 24/08/2018 - 19:48
    -1

    Call the police on him, that's the morally correct thing to do.

    • Jackamo on 25/08/2018 - 13:02

      Yep, they'll send a chopper,the dog squad and a swat team. Don't forget to steal a Happy fathers day card.

      • Tuftsdude on 25/08/2018 - 14:12

        As I was reading this comment a chopper flew over my head.. coincidence?

        • Rysta on 25/08/2018 - 14:17

          Your kid called the cops on you, quick hide your hard drives!

  • Almost Banned on 24/08/2018 - 20:19

    4 is the closest to the argument I would use.
    If there is no financial motivation to create new works, why would anyone do it? Why would they employ others to assist them do it?
    Piracy only works if it is not so severe it completely cuts out all normal commerce. Essentially the pirates are shifting their costs onto other consumers.

    • EightImmortals on 25/08/2018 - 07:03
      +2

      That's OK but I haven't seen any 'new works' from the industry for decades. It's mostly just the same old rehashed stuff that we've seen 1000 times before but with better effects and maybe new actors. I'm happy to pay for 'new works' BTW. And then consider how that industry is completely stopping 'new works' through their draconian 'copyright' legislations. Any industry that can afford to control governments doesn't need my 10 bucks…and that's my 2c on the subject.

  • mskeggs on 24/08/2018 - 20:46
    +5

    Copyright only became a law a few hundred years ago.
    Until historically recent times, the idea you could own an idea was absurd.
    There is no moral argument to make.

    There is an argument that says as a society we enacted copyright laws (and patents) as a motivation to encourage people to be more open about their ideas in exchange for a limited time period of law enforced exclusivity. Sadly, captured interests in government have extended these periods insanely.

    It is now at the point where if I spend the morning writing a catchy song, and it is a hit, my grandkids will still be expecting to charge people to play it. If you are a policeman, or nurse or banker or ditch digger you don't get to charge over and over and over again for your morning's work. Why do song writers? And why would anyone think it ethical or moral that they do?

    • Almost Banned on 24/08/2018 - 20:55

      There is still no ownership of ideas - only of the embodiment of those ideas.

      • mskeggs on 24/08/2018 - 20:59
        +1

        Hair splitting, if the idea becomes corporeal on leaving the head. The Men at work guys didn't swipe the embodiment of Kookaburra sits on an old gumtree. Bittersweet Symphony or Ice Ice Baby are clearly new works, but were caught up because they referenced/sampled other tracks ideas.

    • hawkeye on 24/08/2018 - 21:42

      yeah I remember a couple hundred years ago Dad telling me that they copyrighted Kangaroos that's why you don't see them in the Hong Kong fair until recently when they made a moral argument.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2018 - 20:49
    +2

    I still don't understand why Napster was taken down on intellectual property grounds, only for Youtube to breach intellectual property rights wholesale.

    • mskeggs on 24/08/2018 - 20:55
      +1

      Try the Google library project for another take on this:
      https://www.wired.com/2010/02/the-fight-over-the-worlds-grea…

      Basically, the mess that is copyright traps many books in limbo, so they become unavailable. Google attempted to digitise them and charge a fee that would be returned to authors like the public lending right paid by libraries.
      But publishers and authors challenged them and ultimately prevailed.

      • PJC on 24/08/2018 - 22:58

        The day will come when they will wish they had co-operated with Google.

        • Kangal on 24/08/2018 - 23:59

          Nope.
          Google cannot do it on their own. Even if they had full support of Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Nvidia, Facebook, Samsung.

          The only way to topple the giant that is, abuse of power, by corrupt judges, lawmakers, politicians, and greedy asset holders… is for individuals from the lower class to think/get smart, band together, and say NO. It's quite strange that the real power lies with all these small and weak "ants" but they are fooled into intimidation by a few large and tough "grasshoppers".

          This cartoon captures that essence very succinctly:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4GIAdlbtLY#t=2m25s

  • mskeggs on 24/08/2018 - 20:51
    +3

    I don't mind if he continues after he knows he's wrong, but at least own up to your own flaws. It gets on my nerves that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Your opinion isn't ethics or morals, it is opinion. And people who get annoyed that others won't accept their opinion, and get annoyed about it aren't very pleasant to be around. By all means, make a case to buttress your opinion, but don't beg the question by presuming your opinion is the only valid one.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2018 - 20:52
    +4

    Maybe one good outcome of all the illegal downloading is the emergence of quality content providers at affordable prices - Spotify and Netflix don’t break the bank and are probably a better user experience than looking for download links sandwiched in between porn banners.

    • idonotknowwhy on 25/08/2018 - 11:57

      porn banners

      I thought this one one of the advantages about looking for download links. I've been waiting for Netflix to add this feature.

  • outlander on 24/08/2018 - 21:25
    -1

    You don't. The moral argument is pretty stupid

    The argument you use is the connection to virus's, and the problems you encounter and the time you spend to surpass them. For instance, if you work a minimum wage job making $20 an hour, and spend more than half an hour trying to get a movie to play on some dodgy streaming site when you could have rented it for $5, then you've spent $10 worth of time to save $5. Not exactly smart. And the virus and trojans.. if you use the same computer to check your bank account?
    Could cost you big time.

    • hawkeye on 24/08/2018 - 21:54

      outlander 27 min ago
      You don't. The moral argument is pretty stupid

      Your words Says it all
      We now know what you are

      • spackbace on 24/08/2018 - 22:04

        We now know what you are

        What's that?

        • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2018 - 22:07
          +1

          OP’s uncle?

      • Lennox on 25/08/2018 - 12:48

        Your words Says it all
        We now know what you are

        Is that the best pickup line you could come up with ?

  • airzone on 24/08/2018 - 22:16

    It's copyright infringement, not theft.

    Your family member will probably get sued if they are caught. Sounds like their problem, not yours - unless they are doing it on your internet connection.

  • Doggiie on 24/08/2018 - 22:21
    +1

    Alright guys, it makes sense for me to stop trying to give my opinion to my old man. There is no point trying after what I have tried thus far. I'll let our differences slide.

    • Kangal on 25/08/2018 - 00:01
      +3

      Maybe you can learn from him?
      Stop assuming you are correct, be skeptical and use your curious brain to discover the sandbox which we call The Universe.

    • EightImmortals on 25/08/2018 - 07:16

      Well what is your actual objection? What do you think is 'immoral' is it the downloading itself or that he is simply disobeying government rules?

      • Doggiie on 25/08/2018 - 10:20
        +1

        I guess my objecting is that he believes it is completely right that someone else (some dodgey website) allows him to stream content. I think it is immoral to not pay the content creator. His claim is that they are rich so it doesn't matter, but my friend is a content creator and she is not super rich. People purchasing her content is how to makes ends meet. I guess I'm just imposing my opinions because I can see the effects of piracy.

        • EightImmortals on 25/08/2018 - 10:38
          +2

          I see where you are coming from, but understand that the people who are reaping the bulk of the money for creative content are not creators like your friend, they are the middle men who exploit those creators and ironically seem to be stifling creativity on the process. As a matter of practice if I am interested in buying content I will always go to the creators website and try to buy it directly from them (or placed like bandcamp etc) as I know that most of the money will go to the people who have earned it and not the parasitical corporations who only pay those creators a tiny percentage of the profits they earn.

        • Jolakot on 25/08/2018 - 15:54

          Think about it like this.

          If there was a movie that sells for $20, and I were to write a program to copy, and then delete, that movie 100,000 times a day, does that program cost the content producer $2,000,000 a day? If I ran that program on 100,000 computers, is the content producer losing 10 billion dollars a day?

          They aren't, the amount the content producers make from not watching something vs me pirating it is $0. It's a morally neutral action, nothing positive is done, nothing negative is done.

        • PJC on 25/08/2018 - 16:50

          @Jolakot: The NRMA chap who installed my wife's current car battery created DVD-Shrink. Sony took him to the cleaners. He used to own a Ford dealership.

  • t_c on 25/08/2018 - 08:45
    +1

    @Doggiie

    If you ever want to own a house, you may one day reassess your 'morals' and forget about avo on toast.

    Quick Challenge

    Step 1. Google - 'Median house price in {your suburb}'

    Step 2. Now go to Borrowing power Calculator - https://www.anz.com.au/personal/home-loans/calculators-tools…

    Step 3. Keep increasing income until borrowing power is == median house price.

    Step 4. Ask yourself who the f#@% is ever going to pay me that much income.

    Step 5. Reassess morals.

    • Doggiie on 25/08/2018 - 10:14

      I actually put in my graduate salary and it actually fares well. We can assume that it will increase over the years as I get more experience. I will also claim that I would not borrowing the full amount, but rather look at under the 80% LVR.

      I think we choose who we want to work for, and we choose the industry we want to be in. It doesn't always click right at the beginning, but in the long run you decided to work towards a role, be it one that society is willing to pay you for or one that society has enough demand for already.

      I don't see how pay is a fight against morals, I think it is a mutual agreement between you and the employer to be hired. If you believe you are worth more, and someone else fighting for the same position accepts the paltry pay, then so be it.

    • mysterytal on 25/08/2018 - 14:54

      Step 4. Ask yourself who the f#@% is ever going to pay me that much income.

      That calculator can't possibly be correct….can it?

      It says I need a $200,000 salary…joint application, 3 dependants, $25,500 credit card limit. It comes back as $859,000. That's about what the 4 bedroom house I'm living in is worth.

  • petry on 25/08/2018 - 10:30

    try explaining to a politician how the national interest comes before their own….

    any doubts see liberal party of last week….. factor in coal lobby…. at least the gods have a sense of humour…

    • infinite on 25/08/2018 - 11:28

      At least the Liberal's were decent enough to bring in same sex marriage & relevant laws on top of doing what their voting base wanted.

      Labor couldn't have given a crap about what their own supporters wanted & ended up being muppets of the religious right & corrupt unions, screwing over everyone they pretended to represent for years.

      • petry on 25/08/2018 - 14:24
        +1

        pretty obvious that the libs don't give a crap about anybody else we would have had a working government.

        effectively the libs put Australian government on holiday indefinitely…

        but of course they still get paid for doing sweet fa…. just like labor who are no different.

        I did say 'try explaining to a politician how the national interest comes before their own….'

  • idonotknowwhy on 25/08/2018 - 11:56
    +1

    Are you a lawyer? Mind your own business.
    My God I hope my kids don't turn out like you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

  • AddNinja on 25/08/2018 - 13:24

    Piracy is iillegal as the media is released under the condition that people pay for it. It is also immoral - as the people who created the material expect to be rewarded for it if you watch it. There is however a legal (and probably immoral) way of getting this material very cheaply. Those Russian websites that sell movies and tv shows for a pittance are as far as I can completely legal. The media was distributed there commercially with the distributors’ understanding Russian copyright law. Australia deals with Russia, and so I see no reason why Australians shouldn’t be justified in buying media from those websites.

  • jacross on 25/08/2018 - 13:24

    My advice is to engage in a rigorous study of ethics.

    'Durr durr stealing' is about as useful as 'durr durr iphone'.

  • mranderson978 on 25/08/2018 - 14:24

    It turns out we can't justify our own behaviour by pointing out other people/corporations behaviour is worse.

    On this issue, you're right, your dad is wrong. Just make sure your own behaviour is beyond reproach, or he'll just call you a hypocrite.

  • farknos on 25/08/2018 - 14:43

    you have to much time on your hands, maybe you should volunteer somewhere that needs and wants you guidance and assistance.

  • field1985 on 25/08/2018 - 15:14

    Do you pay for the porn you watch? How do you "morally" justify that?

  • ih8un on 25/08/2018 - 15:25

    First question that needs to asked; Where do your draw your morality from?

  • Koaladeals on 25/08/2018 - 16:13

    I agree completely with your family member.

    "I have a family member who claims they are a very moral and ethical person, however is happy to pirate and illegally stream content at any moment's notice.

    How do you explain to someone that piracy is bad?"

    Depending on where you draw the, morally, I would say that we not only have a duty to pirate media but we have a duty to protect the means by which media and information can be pirated/shared.

    You appear to have accepted the copyright holder's argument- they own the 'right' to the media or information, and they can charge whatever they want to whoever they want to purchase it. That is a very limited view that is fairly recent, and they have been fighting to protect their interests and expand that protection for a very long time. (Tell me when Micky Mouse is out of copyright- the answer is when they can no longer purchase large number of American politicians.) It is unclear why a consumer, like yourself, would have accepted that line of thinking.

    Do you remember 1995? Or 1990? or 1985? or 1980? If you did, you would have seen the world before the information revolution. Essentially, before the mid 1990s, information was the realm of the very wealthy or large institutions. If people wanted information, they had to buy the records, or borrow them from large institutions like libraries. Information was incomprehensibly harder to get access to than it is now. Do you know why quiz shows were so big in the previous decades? It's because to find the answer to a jeopardy question, most people had to go to the LIBRARY and get a BOOK. Not flick their smartphone. Have you ever spoken to anyone under 30 about their musical tastes? It's fairly eclectic. Far more than their ancestors. Because anyone under 30 has had access to every kind of music humans have ever made.

    It is now possible for every single human being alive to own the sum collection of all human knowledge because of digital technology.

    Morally- that should be protected and expanded in some for a human right to information. Every human being should have a right to the information that has led us to this point, especially since 99.999999% of the content creators of that information are dead.

    Anyway, that's the larger issue. Back to your smaller issue around pirating movies and tv shows. The fact is that these companies broadcast that information to the world, through tv and radio waves. Once you BLAST your content out to the world, you can't really have much expectation that it will be treated exactly as you want it to be. The expectation the the rest of the world, should enact laws and pay police and courts to make sure that the Dallas Buyer's Club director gets a few more dollars is ridiculous and a waste of public resources.

    These people that you have thrown in with are trying to fight a wave, or the weather. It is impossible to prevent their data from being copied and shared. They should accept this adopt an itunes or netflix model where people pay a reasonable fee to access their content. If people don't want to pay that fee, then they should lower the fee. Because the correct market amount for their content is a fee that is so cheap that people would rather pay it, than suffer the inconvenience of piracy.

  • Herbse on 25/08/2018 - 16:39

    Morally and legally are two separate things. Laws aren't based on feelings.

    He's breaking the law. Theres no argument against that. If he has no qualms about that then there's no talking him out of it.

  • ozzpete on 25/08/2018 - 16:58

    I will not sell nor make any money from pirate films… (and I have been offered money) .
    I will … watch things for free, things which I never would have paid for (and cannot afford to pay to watch) and therefore there is zero loss of income or $$ through me downloading and watching something which I would have never purchased anyway.
    What I do, is better ethically and morally than other that turn their nose up at and act all high and mighty about me watching downloadez content then those same people support criminals by buying pirated dvd from markets overseas which is a situation where someone is making money off something that does not beling to them, and they have no right to sell.
    As well as watching things myself, I have assisted a friend of mine with spinal injuries and on disability pension as his only income, I have assisted him in allowing him to watch things which he wiuld not be able to watch otherwise , including helping him access US netflix, which is same as piracy I guess, because netflix AU is not licensed for the content. He is a huge movie fan, and it makes his life better. Because he used to buy blurays (and still does) I regularly remind him, "if you would have bought it, then you should still buy it to support industry and so it is not stealing" as there is zero loss to anyone at any point.
    Likewise, I will not profit nor accept any money from freebies that I get on apps. For example, I ordered using free $5 on hey you app, when I arrived to collect food they said "sorry we dont have any muffins etc left, and I clicked accept before realising" he really tried to give me a refund, handing me the $5, I had to really push not to have him give the $5 'refund' and said look, just give me another chai tea instead, thats fine. He still ended up giving me 50cents back change . Which I kept in car until I could find a charity tin, and donated it to legacy at local RSL.
    It is absolutely not right to take $$ or profit from someone elses 'property However watching something downloaded online where you would never have paid for it anyway (either because you cannot afford, or dont like it that much) is quite different.
    I am unsure of the various precise definitions of 'piracy' but I define piracy as in, people or organisations burn illegal copies of software, music, or film for the purpose of sale and/or profit. Back when I had ps1 years ago, there was advert in trading post, when I called the guy was some shady character that was awaiting "shipment into melbourne from overseas" then selling games for I think $50 each. Things have changed much since then (around 1997 that was) .

  • sithsylar on 25/08/2018 - 16:59

    You know how i kind of justify pirating stuff. I only get the stuff i can't legally get here living in Australia. For example Big Brother Uk i can't watch that legally even if i had the best subscription services or what about Japanese Drama. I can't legally watch that on tv as well. That's the only things i get tbh.

  • vicosads on 25/08/2018 - 17:16

    Piracy provides a better service

  • Sinful on 25/08/2018 - 17:17

    You wouldn't download a car….

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