Australia’s Horrific New Encryption Law Likely to Obliterate Its Tech Scene

freshofftheplane on 11/12/2018 - 22:24
Last edited 11/12/2018 - 22:27

https://thenextweb.com/politics/2018/12/10/australias-horrif…

Australia‘s government signed a bill into law last week giving law enforcement agencies the right to force technology companies to reveal users’ encrypted messages. Another way of putting it: Australia‘s tech scene will soon be located on the Wayback Machine.

The new law gives Australian law enforcement agencies the power to issue cooperation notices to technology entities with the purpose of gaining access to specific users’ encrypted messages and data. These entities may include companies, websites, or anything else that transmits data to an end-user in Australia.

Thoughts?

Computing

Comments

              • NotSureAboutThatMate on 14/12/2018 - 04:14
                -5

                @I3IGN0sE: Call me whatever names you like, I'm right. That's all I care about.

                Are there really people out there pretending that non-Whites have nothing to do with these things? My grandparents didn't need concrete bollards in their 100% White Australian city.

                I can see that you're fairly low IQ but I'm genuinely curious, if you would care to try to explain it to me as well as possible. Do you actually not recognise the correlation, or do you just deny it because it's "racist" or otherwise unpopular? Is this behaviour conscious or subconscious?

                • Orpheon on 19/12/2018 - 17:12

                  @NotSureAboutThatMate: James Gargasoulas was single-handedly responsible for concrete bollards being installed throughout Melbourne City after killing six pedestrians and recklessly injuring another 27 when he drove into Bourke St mall in Melbourne, and he was a 2nd Generation Australian with Greek heritage.

                  He was never labelled an extremist.

                  He was never labelled a terrorist.

                  He was declared as having a history of 'psychological problems'.

                  The Greek community was never asked to answer for his crimes.

                  The Australian people never thought to re-consider immigration rates from Greece after the incident.

                  You can cherry pick all the incidents that fit your narrative, and play the Immigrants card all you want, I see your bullshit mate, and I'm not impressed.

                  • NotSureAboutThatMate on 20/12/2018 - 23:53

                    @Orpheon: Fortunately, far more Australians every day are seeing through the "diversity is our strength" bullshit. You'll get there too, one day.

        • Subada on 13/12/2018 - 11:07
          +2

          If we had enforced our border

          We have enforced our border, I don't think any recent terror attack has been committed by illegal immigrants in Australia. Some attacks have been committed by former refugees who became citizens here legally e.g Lindt Cafe and 2017 Melbourne car attack.

          You don't really want to see stricter enforcement, you want our laws changed to ban brown people from coming to this country. Call a spade a spade.

          You've basically bought into the exact same fear tactics that have been used to pass the encryption bill. "Terror means we need bollards", "Terror means we need backdoors to encryption", "Terror means we need to ban all brown people". This isn't the faul tof "diversity", it's totalitarianism and fear mongering from the major parties.

          • NotSureAboutThatMate on 13/12/2018 - 14:35
            -3

            @Subada: I don't care whether they're legal or illegal, in fact it's even worse if they're 'legal' as it implies that the government has deliberately failed in its duty to defend the border.

            I didn't mean to obscure my intentions, you're absolutely right that I want that spade. I don't want to sit idly by watching people bashed, raped, stabbed, robbed, and terrorised any more. I don't want people's communities to be ruined by non-White immigration any more. I don't want to be subject to increasingly authoritarian laws as the government uses this contrived social collapse to further police actual Aussies.

            Call me whatever you like, but so many Australians could have been spared the devastation of non-White immigration if we had had the courage to defend our border instead of being shamefully concerned about the names others might call us for doing so. You can never deny that fact: Australians would still be alive if we had enforced our border. It's not "fear tactics", many of us still remember a time, not so long ago, when this chaos wasn't the norm. If you don't have a healthy, instinctive, and fierce will to defend our people and our nation from these foreigners then that's on you for being a disgraceful xenophile, not me for being outspoken about it.

            • rolypoly on 13/12/2018 - 23:40

              @NotSureAboutThatMate: Specifically what is the actual period of time 'not so long ago' when chaos wasn't the norm?

              I have lived here all my life and have never seen anyone bashed, raped, stabbed, robbed or terrorised other than on the news.

              • NotSureAboutThatMate on 14/12/2018 - 04:24

                @rolypoly: You truly can't remember Australia before we had Somalians stabbing people in the CBD? I don't believe you.

                Get some nostalgia in ya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvVdaP6FvFQ
                Incidentally, there happen to be a few more people in the comments there who remember a time of safety, cleanliness, harmony, stability and prosperity (ie. before we decided to "strengthen" the place with all this diversity). I'm much younger than anyone alive in that video, so I suppose the inflection point was somewhere between that period and now, I suspect having something to do with the betrayal of the White Australia Policy.

                • rolypoly on 15/12/2018 - 09:33

                  @NotSureAboutThatMate: Thanks for that video, it was a very pleasant watch.

                  What I said was that I have not personally seen any of those incidents other than on the news. I have noticed a gradual change in Australia, but that is also mixed in with all the other changes in my life (eg primary school, high school, job, moving out of home etc), so I am afraid my views would be heavily biased.

                  I did a quick google and found some charts on homicide rate, I found these two:
                  http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]/95553f4ed9b60a374a25…
                  http://www.crimestats.aic.gov.au/NHMP/1_trends/

                  Per 100,000 population the homicide rate was 1.3 to about 1.5 in the 60s, there was a peak in the 80 to about 2.5, but the latest figure I could get showed a rate of 1, which is the lowest ever second to a period in the 40s. But from the period of the mid 60s to now, the lowest homicide rate is now. I could not find anything later than 2014.

    • idonotknowwhy on 13/12/2018 - 09:07

      If you want diversity, you want these laws; this IS diversity.

      I'm not sure about that mate

    • xuqi on 13/12/2018 - 09:49
      +2

      Crawl back under the rock from whence you came; shallow racist human.

  • Ghosteye on 13/12/2018 - 01:35
    +5

    This is the issue i've always had with representative democracy. You vote for a nutjob based on his/her promises and character and how much they align with yours, but they hide insidious motives and create shitshows for the Australian people to deal with.

    Pretty soon we might see yellow vests coming out as well.

    • Other on 13/12/2018 - 11:08
      +4

      Australians are sheeple. We won't come out unless its a snag at bunnings. And even then that ignited controversy.

    • frostman on 13/12/2018 - 12:45

      100% agreed.

      The fear mongering is real.

    • Charity on 13/12/2018 - 19:00
      +1

      You vote for a nutjob based on his/her promises and character

      That in itself is a common misbelief. You vote for the party - not the individual. How many times has the elected Prime Minister (prime minister!!) been ousted?

  • haemolysis on 13/12/2018 - 01:38
    +6

    All the tech and moral issues (of which there are so many) aside… I feel like we really need to acknowledge that this kind of tech surveillance and device decryption, whilst always, ALWAYS emphasised as some national emergency, has… never lead to any terroirism convictions. All recent convictions globally have been the result of traditional surveillance. If compromising our privacy is so critical and urgent, why does doing so never deliver results??

  • UFO on 13/12/2018 - 09:37

    Wouldn't a VPN solve this issue?

    Obviously a VPN that isn't located within the realms of the Five Eyes, but simultaneously not in a country like China with its own privacy/hacking concerns would circumvent a lot of these concerns would they not?

    Legislation is one thing, but jurisdiction is another. Ensuring your security is via a VPN provider that will not be susceptible to these would go someway to protecting your security.

    And if that's the case, what's stopping criminals/paedophiles/etc etc simply doing that anyway?

    Or regardless of VPN, would a local ISP have the appropriate back door anyway?

    • idonotknowwhy on 13/12/2018 - 12:17
      +5

      No, a VPN wouldn't solve the greater issue here.
      Yes, we can practice personal opsec and protect our own privacy, but you're forgetting the bigger picture here.
      This has the potential to obliterate our entire tech sector. It is incompatible with EU privacy laws. The equivalent of sitting out the industrial revolution.
      This could mean that in 20-30 years, Australia is an irrelevant and undesirable country. Selling each other houses and coffee won't be enough.

      • UFO on 13/12/2018 - 16:26

        Hmmm… that would be bad then.

    • mskeggs on 13/12/2018 - 12:47
      +4

      Assume your device has an undetectable key logger installed, as the test to understand whether the solution would fix the issue.
      A VPN just keeps stuff secure in transit.

      • UFO on 13/12/2018 - 16:26

        Gotcha.

    • Zachary on 13/12/2018 - 13:35

      …and what are those realms of the Five Eyes?

      • UFO on 13/12/2018 - 16:25
        +1

        Australia, Canada, New Zealand, USA and UK.

        They share everything intelligence/data wise. Google "Five Eyes" for more info, but its legit.

        • Zachary on 13/12/2018 - 21:23
          +1

          The name rings like some cool anime show or something….hahahaha

  • aerom on 13/12/2018 - 10:28

    We should have a "You bunch of idiots!" letter for public to sign :-)

  • OzBestDeal on 13/12/2018 - 12:23

    I'm more concern on how will those tech companies decrypt stuff.
    That means they required by law to hold the key to every encrypted stuff they've done…

    If that got stolen….. hmmm…

  • frostman on 13/12/2018 - 12:44
    +7

    What really annoys me is that the government pushes for these sweeping laws as a means to protect us from 2 main areas (apparently):

    • Drug Use
    • Terrorism

    For the first point, we are an Island, so 99.999999% of drugs will have to hit our borders via cargo. I've heard the ratio of checked containers from someone was something like 1 checked every 10. Why? well because Australian ports receive a million containers a day and apparently insufficient staff to audit them all. So what is the solution? Oh I know!, let's wait till the drugs enter our country and then start spying on the people instead of stopping them at the border before they make their way through Dog Litter packets and Table legs, mad idea!

    Second, Terrorism: These people usually exhibit early signs of danger before even committing anything like that. By that time ASIO and the Fed Police would (and should) have been over them like an ass-rash during a humid summer.

    So my question is, what is the REAL purpose of these spying laws? is it really to take away our freedom?

    • Xiaomi on 13/12/2018 - 18:29

      I've heard the ratio of checked containers from someone was something like 1 checked every 10

      This is best case scenario for any country, truth is it is not nearly this amount.

      Generally the containers from certain countries, with certain produce won't ever see an inspection, just say coconuts from PNG that has the fumigation papers, it'll go straight through, whereas cargo from Mexico, U.S, Thailand that has more links to availability of drugs and ammunition will see a larger inspection ration.

      1 in 10 is probably from Columbia.

    • Charity on 13/12/2018 - 19:07

      So my question is, what is the REAL purpose of these spying laws? is it really to take away our freedom?

      Yes. From you, your spouse and your children. Now what? What can you do? What can anyone do?

      • frostman on 13/12/2018 - 20:50

        Well, we should lobby against this breach of privacy, we need to understand for what reason does the Government need this?
        We all pay taxes here, so we expect some freedom, we're not living in some dictatorship BS town.

        They went from Surveillance, Metadata to this now.

        • Charity on 13/12/2018 - 21:11
          +1

          so we expect some freedom

          Quite the opposite. I have come to the conclusion, regarding privacy, most (greater than 50%) would be perfectly happy with none. And want none.

          we need to understand for what reason does the Government need this?

          You already knew the answer.

          We all pay taxes here

          The new law will help enforce that continues.

          • Praeto on 14/12/2018 - 17:12
            +4

            @Charity: We need to stop talking about privacy (which as you say, a large amount of people don’t care about) and start talking about the consequences of giving it up. If people understood what identity theft, and the repercussions of information being shared with the wrong people looked like, they’d care a whole lot more.

            I deal with people that have had their identities stolen every day through work, and it’s an awful experience that has a significant and lasting impact on people’s lives. I also get to see the impact of people’s private lives getting shared with employers, children and friends.. People relationships being exploited to attack others. I always hear people say they “have nothing to hide”, but they do have something to protect. Their relationships and the “web of trust” with their friends is valuable to an attacker. You might not send a stranger money, but would you send it to your best friend if he said he was in trouble?

            People just don’t have an understanding of the stakes.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 07:00

      Bingo

  • Charity on 13/12/2018 - 19:21
    +1

    Did anyone even hear about this before it passed? Honestly didn't hear about this on TV at all.

    Not really a Trump fan, but one thing he did get right is that "the fake news media truly is the enemy of the people." Even more so in Australia than the US!

    • shaybisc on 14/12/2018 - 07:35
      -2

      You have got to be joking. The encryption laws have been widely discussed and reported on for over a year. Trump is the biggest liar inn the history of fact-checking. Trump's election win was a direct result of fake news. Trump needs fake news because the truth is not his friend.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 18:32
        +3

        Bigger than Bush, behind the Iraq war? Bigger than Hilary and Obama, behind Libya/Benghazi and Syria? These wars all allowed Isis to manifest.

        The source of 'fake news' was 'legit' news back when they were in power.

        How many soldier's died 'protecting us' in those wars? How many innocents died in those wars?

        Let's compare that to the amount that have died under the wars Trump has started so far. Oh wait, he hasn't invaded anyone. But let's just bash Trump because it's cool and because he says things that offend people, unlike the very humane and modest past presidents.

  • crashloaded on 14/12/2018 - 08:01

    Hopefully the tech companies will move to 'not storing data' like many VPN's

    • shaybisc on 14/12/2018 - 08:46

      Like this.

      https://ricochet.im/

    • Praeto on 14/12/2018 - 17:15
      +1

      That’s exactly the approach that this legislation is built to stop. The problem today is that the gov can go to someone like Apple and demand access, and Apple can say “we don’t have the ability to give you access”. This legislation is about empowering the gov to go back to those companies and say “build a solution, or we’re going to start fining you immediately”.

      Your suggestion is exactly what the situation was in the past, and what we just lost.

      • crashloaded on 18/12/2018 - 11:13

        Yes, i understand now reading the whole article. It's going to be a terrible law for people that work in IT for international based employers. It's also going to prevent a lot of these companies offering employment to Australians.

  • HighAndDry on 14/12/2018 - 12:21
    -1

    Governments still clueless about technology and security, more at 11.

    • idonotknowwhy on 15/12/2018 - 08:16

      They're not clueless and they're not stupid.
      This is cold, calculated and strategic.

  • haemolysis on 14/12/2018 - 13:27

    I have to admit, whilst I am against these invasive practices by our government in no uncertain terms, I think the idea that it will obliterate our tech industry is… exaggeration. Whilst we absolutely should have the right to encryption, admittedly, not that many services ARE fully, properly, end-to-end encrypted without a backdoor as it is. Those that are, aren't likely to keep it around much longer. For example, WhatsApp, whilst advertised as end-to-end encrypted, has a known and deliberate backdoor method for a long time now.

    Whilst the bill is definitely among the more backwards of developed nations, it's part of a trend that's happening all over the globe, including outside the "five eyes" nations. I might be pessimistic, but I believe eventually tech companies will just start folding on this issue.

    There are plenty of security reasons for tech companies to fight this. But we are forgetting that industry is motivated by the dollar alone. As soon as the cost of legal battles, congressional hearings, technical support of law enforcement, and fines start to be more expensive than the benefit they receive from secure services (which amounts to a slight marketing appeal) they will plug those back doors right in.

    • orangetrain on 14/12/2018 - 14:30
      +2

      Would any non-Australian business be ok with a copy of everything sent to Australian government when communicating to anyone in Australia?

      What about sensitive business information? What about sensitive business transactions?

      Look at the Witness K scandal for an example when one side (ie government) gets information.

      • haemolysis on 14/12/2018 - 15:19
        +1

        I'm not saying there aren't big issues. What I'm saying is I don't expect tech companies to keep fighting very long.

        Keep in mind, this is not unique to Australia.

        After that San Bernadino shooter iPhone thing, the topic is hot in US politics.
        David Cameron in the UK proposed banning encryption.
        China wants encryption keys.
        Russia bans most encrypted apps.
        etc etc.

        Companies might not be "OK" but slowly the cost of fighting this is escalating. Fighting legal battles, losing revenue on apps that are banned, paying fines, etc. Eventually, the IT sector will cave. The pressure is immense, escalating, and it is global.

    • Praeto on 14/12/2018 - 17:23

      Its not an exaggeration while we’re the only ones with legislation on the books that enforces it, because it instantly makes everything we offer tainted. Yes, it’s been tried in many other countries, but it’s been shot down in all of them so far except ours.

      There is no doubt that it’s going to be an ongoing battle, but it’s one worth fighting. In Europe there are many privacy laws that make this kind of legislation difficult if not impossible to pass. In other countries they have a bill of rights to protect them. In Australia we effectively have neither, which is why it’s bring pushed through here.

      We need to fight it, or were simply going to become a technological backwater with products no one will buy.

  • luffyex2010 on 14/12/2018 - 13:39

    Its time to use symbols lol

    ☞⛈️🌀✘☂☹

  • Ryxxi on 14/12/2018 - 23:18
    +1

    Whats the point in this thread ?? we cant do anything anyway. This Country's democracy is fake.

    • Xiaomi on 14/12/2018 - 23:42

      People with your attitude towards these laws are the reason why they exist.

      The US spent $5B on a wall to protect their country but have yet to attempt such a law like Australia and New Zealand had just done with people like you just accepting it because what can we do right? Ridiculous.

      The amount of people bending over to grab their ankles for the government with this law is pitiful

      • idonotknowwhy on 15/12/2018 - 08:14
        -1

        What did you do about it?

        • Xiaomi on 15/12/2018 - 09:20
          -1

          Bought a new set of phones and installed copperhead. I'm not here to be lubed up by the government like y'all 😂

    • [Deactivated] on 15/12/2018 - 10:56
      -1

      This Country's democracy is fake.

      Democracy isn't everyone getting their way everytime neither is it having a referendum on every issue.

      Sure, our democracy isn't perfect but it is not the tyranny you're making it out to be.

  • awaddell on 15/12/2018 - 00:20
    +1

    "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance." John Curran

    The problem with our "democracy" is the lack of involvement of the people. Frankly most people are more concerned about their football team than they are about politics or their freedom. The fattened lamb walks contented towards its slaughter.

    Any political party can be joined for a very little annual fee and they have processes that actually are democratic. If 10 000 people joined either major party they could seize control across the nation. But that involves doing something and it is far easier to bitch online than get out there and do something.

    Our governments are a reflection of our own ignorance. We may be tech aware and appalled by this but really who ever gets off their sofa to try and change something.

    For the record I contacted the EFA to ask how I could help oppose this legislation before it was passed and contacted several members of parliament to express my concern unfortunately for reasons unknown the whole thing was fast tracked.

    • idonotknowwhy on 15/12/2018 - 08:09
      +1

      For the record I contacted the EFA to ask how I could help oppose this legislation before it was passed and contacted several members of parliament to express my concern unfortunately for reasons unknown the whole thing was fast tracked.

      So in other words, nothing we could do about it.

      But I agree with your point about apathy. People prefer to complain in their echo chambers.

      Remember when Conroy tried to push through that internet censorship bill on 2008 or whatever it was (I remember people saying Kevin 07, Kevin 84)? There was a "protest" in Sydney, which a whole 6 people showed up to. The police went up to them (they had registered the protest) and said "If you want to protest, you're supposed you have people".

  • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 16/12/2018 - 10:19

    I've read too many dystopian future novels and watched too many tv shows, and seen too many conspiracy theory movies to be fully comfortable with these changes.

    However, knowing how spectacularly incompetent,out of touch and stupid our politicians are in comparison to the characters in those books/movies/tv shows I am pretty sure that the implementation will be flawed.

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