Moving out for The First Time with 2 Friends

Hi everyone,

I'm moving out with 2 other friends and would appreciate some advice / opinions on a few questions I have.

Some background history
- Two of us earn over $100k p/a before taxes and bonuses while one earns $60k p/a before taxes
- Friend that earns $60k is not in Sydney and we will have to draft up a separate rental lease
- Friend with $60k p.a says he has plenty of savings (unknown but probably over the $20k mark) and has promised he won't bail (he'll be signing our private agreement in advance)
- I have $120k in savings/equity/bonds while the other friend has a rich dad (unlimited savings essentially)
- We have no ongoing expenses (until we move out) or debt
- We've all just graduated university last year and all had been talking about moving out in our last semester
- None of us have experience moving out
- We're all looking for a modern apartment to rent which is why we've applied for a 3 bedroom apartment Meriton at Mascot ($1080 p/w) and are awaiting a response

My questions
1. Are there any other regions you'd recommend us to check out (we want modern i.e. fast internet, air conditioning, large living room)
2. How is the car space rental market looking right now? We are looking to rent one out i.e. would it be easy to list at market price and find a renter or would we have to severely undercut the market rate (looks to be about $200 per month at mascot).
3. What are the average additional utility costs (if it's hard to give an average, what are you paying currently?) e.g. Unlimited internet, electricity usage
4. We're putting two of us on the lease (me and my friend who earn over $100k) as the third person is not currently in Sydney. Is there anything in particular we should include in the private contract between us two and the third person? I'm thinking of using the fairtrading rental template: https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/00…
5. Any advice, tips or anecdotes for 3 young graduates moving out

Comments

      • +2

        James, i hate to say this… but best wishes mate. Sounds strikingly similar to something Ive done when I moved out 19-20. I, personally dont regret anything but if I could have avoided it… yeah

      • +1

        Did the share house thing, don’t really harbour any grievances on bad housemates. Makes it more fun with more people, just don’t let the house rules keep you up at night.

        Only regret is the rent, wish we’d actually bought a place. Would have set each other up really well, (one person I lived with for about 5 years).

  • This friend is definitely the riskiest which is why I'm trying to figure out what contract to get him to sign and lock him in before we pay

    I'm not talking about monetary risk , I'm saying there might be issues with actually living together and being together all the time.

    when you live together you cannot get away from them

    Friend 1, slept in the same bed for 4 weeks).

    This should be fine living together, as you already have (lived together). As long as all you did in bed was sleep (rhetorical, I don't want an answer). If there was more than sleep, then you might be wise to consider whatif you get together, then break up, you would then be trapped living with your 'ex'.

    Friend #2: Met at a houseparty we clicked and he mentioned that he had talked about moving out with .

    Lol, no way in the world I would be moving in with someone permanently, when only met em at house party and 'we clicked'. Presumably there was alcohol involved, in which case it is much more likely one would 'click' with random stranger.

    If you're all living at home with parents or something, then it might be the case that any option is better (in your opinion). So warrants consideration as to how happy you are with current living arrangements. No matter who you move in with there is some risk (and not only financially). IMO the financial risk is much lesser of concern when choosing housemates.
    If they moved out, you would only be losing maybe week or 2 of their share of the rent (while you find another housemate).
    If someone non-financial goes wrong with living together in house….. Well the list of potential dramas is unlimited.

    Nobody can give you a clear definitive answer as to what to do, just some general things to consider then you , need to look into things and weigh everything up in context.

    Could still do the living together for week at airbnb thing with the 3 of you, especially since you don't really know friend #2 at all. Alternatively, instead of airbnb, maybe can live together for week or 2 etc, at parents house (if they went on holiday and house is free).

  • Sounds like fun only advice would be is be careful living with friends they tend to change especially when they get into relationships. Otherwise if you can trust one another you can have a hell of a lot of fun!!

    Just remember to have a code for if you are bring a mooch home and if you want a mooch to leave because you need to be a team

  • +5

    friend
    /frɛnd/

    noun
    1. a person with whom one has never shared a house with.

  • +12

    Ozbrag

  • +4

    When's the housewarming lads?

  • +5

    I'm moving out with 2 other friends and would appreciate some advice / opinions on a few questions I have.

    Don't. Get your own place, then get a girlfriend, group houses are shit, don't do it.

  • +11

    There are way too many threads about people with too much money, and no idea on how to live their life.

  • +5

    No real advice except props for both thinking ahead (personally I wouldn't share a house with close friends), and also having a pretty good attitude about the passive aggressive jabs you're getting in this thread haha.

    • +4

      I've seen it all. Went through fast food, retail and receptionist. People will be people.

    • +3

      Was going to say the same thing. OP's questions seem genuine so not sure why there are so many butt hurt jealous people on here taking issue with OP mentioning his income which is necessary for people to give advice. Well done OP for earning that much at your age and not getting sucked into some of these pointless snarky comments. You seem like quite a logical and intelligent person so you probably already covered all the important bases and now just looking for anything you may have missed. All the best.

      • +1

        Because how dare YOUNG PEOPLE earn that much money!!111!111!!

  • Sharing with friends

    Interesting

    Ill make sure to check back in 6 months with some popcorn

  • You're going to need more than 1 car space to store you and your friends high yield investment vehicles

  • +1

    I'm quite experienced in share house situations (lived in about different 5 sharehouses from about age 20-33) and have had some extremely bad experiences (living with people with substance abuse issues and/or very difficult personalities).

    It sounds like you and your friends have a lot more resources and capability than I did when I first moved out, so perhaps you won't have as many problems, but in order to ensure you have a smooth ride my advice can't hurt.

    The main issue is that once you rent a room to someone, whether they are on the lease or not, they are now a subtenant and have the rights of a tenant. This means it is difficult to get them out. It takes a court order to legally compel them to move out, and basically once things get to that stage, they are unlikely to be in a situation where they can respond to that/be the type of person who really gives a shit about a court order. I've been in this situation myself with a housemate who had substance abuse issues and ended up committing a violent assault (not against me) and going to prison. Not fun, but at least the cops were able to remove him once he'd assaulted someone. Before that it was a 'civil matter' and they weren't interested. He was someone I considered a friend and I did everything I could to help him but after a while I had had enough and didn't feel safe in my own house and asked him to leave. But by that stage he was really too far gone to organise finding a new place and moving house. I've also seen situations with friends who live in sharehouses and have had people they didn't know move in from answering ads on gumtree. One of these guys stopped paying rent, locked himself in his room (presumably came out at night to eat/go to the toilet) and avoided them for weeks. He finally just disappeared on them and they had to clean up his junk and cover his rent.

    When you share a house with someone, you have very little power to get them out if they're a problem. And until you live with someone, you really don't know what it's going to be like. People's lives can unravel surprisingly quickly, and once that's happened, it can be very hard to get them to see reason or even act in their own best interests. After these experiences I basically decided that unless I'm in some kind of extreme financial distress, I won't share, and won't rent a house that I couldn't afford to cover on my own at least temporarily, and thankfully I'm in a long term relationship and I'm able to share the cost of rent with my partner. I also live in Perth which is cheaper than Sydney.

    Seriously consider some these options in order of priority:
    1. Don't share. Rent a cheap apartment that you can afford on your own.
    2. Move into an established share house where you are not on the lease. That actually puts you in a greater position of power (don't abuse it).
    3. If you are really intent on sharing with your friends, have an exit strategy. This should consist of a written agreement between the housemates about what to do if one person becomes intolerable. Obviously you don't want to end up relying on this agreement in any legal sense, but having things clearly agreed and written down tends to make people a bit more accountable. You also need your own backup plan for how to get out if things totally go to shit. If your parents can offer you a room that's great, but not everyone can rely on that.

    One idea I had but have never implemented was to have a '(profanity) off bond'. Basically all housemates are required to pay an amount that's substantial but not unaffordable ($500?) and that should be lodged with a trusted third party (I would use a multisig crypto wallet holding DAI, but that's getting a bit complex for most people). If anyone is asked to leave, that money is refunded to them upon them vacating and finishing all of their business - ie bills and rent up to date, all belongings moved out and room cleaned up.

    Now - after saying all of that, I also have friends that still live in sharehouses and love it - they have friends to hang out with at any time, they share meals, and they get the benefit of cheaper rent. But for me those good experiences have been few and far between. Perhaps it's down to bad luck or perhaps I'm bad at picking housemates. But either way I have found that sharing is too risky for me.

    • I have considered what would happen if one of us were to become unbearable (my best friend has thrown up on me in the middle of the night) and it is definitely something we will discuss when drafting up our policies.

      Your story really sucks I think I've been lucky not to be around that type of person in my life. Not even someone who would be willing to hurt a mouse.

      Regarding the options
      1. I definitely prefer living with others than by myself.
      2. I am not too comfortable with the idea of a share house as you're in a house with strangers essentially (correct?). I've done a bit of research because the prices were well below regular apartments but decided against it.
      3. Will definitely look into an exit strategy in a written agreement.

      • Not even someone who would be willing to hurt a mouse.

        Well, I would have said the same thing about this person previously but a mixture of underlying issues, some unexpected bad luck, and several months of drug and alcohol abuse can cause people to do some weird things.

        I am not too comfortable with the idea of a share house as you're in a house with strangers essentially (correct?).

        Yes, but it doesn't have to be quite like that - in my social community, people know each other, and friends of friends give recommendations for people who are looking for a room or looking for a housemate. It's not bulletproof (the guy I had those problems with was recommended by a friend) but it reduces the risk. Obviously for that you need to be in a social community that consists of enough people living in sharehouses.

  • man i cant even find one friend that i would spend everyday with let alone 2…good luck though

  • . .

  • +1

    When all of you are that incredibly rich, what's the point? Why not just all get your own 1-2 bed places and avoid all the cons of sharing with other people? Guaranteed atleast one of you will have a partner at some point who will drive the others up the wall and mess everything up, if something else doesn't first.

    • +1

      I find that sharing with other people is more fun than living by myself. I'm also an extreme introvert. But to each their own.

      • +3

        Your title literally says you're moving out for the first time with friends. How do you know you prefer to share than live by yourself?

        If I was on 100k I'd get my own place. If I like my friends enough they can come over whenever I'm available. Why live in a potentially cramped environment when there is literally no reason to?

  • +11

    Another household on ozbargain on 300k (260k salary and 40k side business)!!!

    • +7

      i made a thread stating that im on minimum wage and sell drugs on the side but the mods deleted it, saying the minimum salary for making threads in ozbargain in 2019 is $300k

      • +1

        I'm not sure most even with 5 years experience post degree would even be earning 100k right?

        • +1

          This is the Internet. Op probably dates a playboy bunny too.

          • @DiscoJango: lol, maybe between 5-10 years post degree it would be more common to be earning that

      • <Another household on ozbargain on 300k (260k salary and 40k side business)!!!>

        this wins ^^^^ hahaahahah

    • The opportunities available in Sydney for some industries, particularly the growth in infrastructure recently, are fantastic. 5-8 years experienced Engineers are averaging $150k each in the current market hence the large influx of resources from abroad.

      • Out of curiosity what other industries are you talking about?

      • 5-8 years experienced Engineers are averaging $150k

        What kind of engineer? Can you link me some job ads?

    • Yea bullshit… I worked my ass off for 5 year and he gets that straight after Uni? WTFFFF

  • +1

    I shared with my friends - we are not friends anymore. :)

    • +1

      Did you steal all the food from the fridge? :p

      • Bag stole all their shampoo, toothpaste and used all the toilet paper.

  • +1

    If you have $120k in savings, you could use that as a down payment on an apartment, and the repayments wouldn't cost that much more than rent.

    Also moving into share house with friends is a massive risk, it usually ends in tears. That said, I think it's a lesson that everyone has to learn for themselves.

    • +1 to this.

      Better find nice 1 bedroom and buy it.

      Later you can use is as investment.

    • +2

      Made a comment on this already. Not happy with the current housing market forecasts and the equity market is doing quite well for me (up 34% since Dec 2017).

      • Don't forget taxes :)

        Owning your property will make you independent. Believe me with 2-3 more people living in shared property (hello, this is my new girlfriend) after few months it will be nightmare.

  • +5

    Forget a household kitty. Just use splitwise (it’s a free app) and chuck all your bills, toilet paper purchases, household stuff in it. It’ll keep track of everything and your UberEATS purchase will cancel out housemate 2’s toilet paper purchase etc.

    And get a cleaner. Preferably fortnightly who cleans the common spaces and bathrooms.

    Lastly make sure the household has a dishwasher and you’re not precious about kitchen stuff. Or any shared use stuff for that matter.

    Get a really big fridge. Even takeaway leftovers need to fit somewhere. Plus, beer and bubbles take up a lot of room.

    • +1

      +1 for Splitwise. Used it in a house with 4 other friends (5 of us in total), shared groceries with 3 of them… Made the whole 'who paid for what' really handy, no real arguments about finances.

      +1 for large fridge. Given there was 5 of us, we actually needed 2 (1 for food, 1 for drinks).

  • +4

    Welcome to Ozbraggin.. is that you bernard tomic?

  • Good luck.. Living with others is a nightmare if done incorrectly or why the wrong people.

    If I could do it all over again I would have paid more to have my own place. Would have been in a better place now definitely.

    The support network is good but it can also be too annoying but to each their own you know what you are doing so good luck and all the best.

  • +2

    What if one of your friends decides to lease their room out to a working escort whilst your not home?

  • Ahhh house sharing with friends, it is a good way to end friendships.

    • whys that? Isn't living with friends the best thing ever????

  • +1

    I recommend you also consider what happens when you guys are/start dating. Additional house guests create additional pressure on the shared amenities (toilets/showers/kitchen/lounges) and don't usually contribute to rent/utilities/kitty/cleaning etc. Would you be happy with one or more of you:

    • bringing different boys/girls home each week?
    • having an ongoing relationship with someone that stays over multiple nights a week?
    • wanting their partner to move in permanently?

    I've lived in a 4 bed house with 5 on the lease (all great friends at the time), and 2 of them also invited their girlfriends to live there as a primary residence, without being added to the lease. I thought it was pretty unfair, with 2 people contributing absolutely nothing and consuming whatever they wanted. The others thought it was great because they got to live with their girlfriends, and the girlfriends loved not having to pay rent. It was too easy for them to team up in any disagreements we had; 1v4 is not an argument you are likely to win.

    As you can expect this ended up causing huge tension in the house with me against the rest. Ruined a bunch of friendships in the end because your friends are going to take it really personally when you get mad at their girlfriends and call them freeloaders…

    Hope you guys will be different!

    • +1

      I thought it was pretty unfair, with 2 people contributing absolutely nothing and consuming whatever they wanted.

      I've been in that situation before where I've spent time at a partners share house (mainly 1 or 2 nights). I was always conscious of what I was using, I think the biggest impact I had was just using the shower. I would buy the ingredients for dinner and cook that up and clean up afterwards with my partner. I don't know how people don't realise they are an extra burden when they come over to stay.

      Good point though, but maybe since the household income is so high they won't really mind?

  • +1

    Sharehoused for a decade with multiple friends.
    - Use some of that extra money to have a cleaner come in once a week. That would definitely help out one of the biggest issues housemates face.
    - Have each person pay a separate bill in the house so it isn't one person asking for cash all the time.
    - Don't assume your housemates are fine when you bring people back to your place any time of the day or night. Always shoot them a message!
    - Have regular housemate catchups just to check in and people can get their small issues out early (sounds odd but it can really be helpful since people are usually unaware of their annoying habits)
    - If one of you has a partner staying over, ensure you bring it up with your housemates to know when them staying over is too much (some people pretty much move in without paying rent)

    There are a million other things, but keep open communication and you should be right. The amount of talking behind peoples backs is what slowly kills friendships.

  • -1

    If you guys are bringing in $260K+ salary together, you should be moving to Bondi or Manly beach near the water.

    • +1

      Manly is a lame area full of traffic and AMGs.

      Bondi is full of tourists, traffic and termites.

      • U must live in Penrith

  • +4

    Advise is if you're at home and earning that much, just stay at home longer as you can save a lot more.

  • +1

    Make sure friend with 60k does not run a brothel out of their room.

    • only true ozbargainers get this…..well played sir

  • You are pretty financially solid so I wouldn't be too concerned about getting overly contractural with your friend.

    If he's not on the lease so what, do you know him well and trust him? what the worst that can happen… and would having his name on the lease really much difference at that point.

    Also $360 pw may be a bit pricy for the friend only earning $60k, maybe there is a smaller room he can have for a lower share of the rent.

  • Does the apartment come with a car park for a high yield investment amg mercedes

  • Careful mate - looks like you're already hitting the nerves (surprise, surprise) of some insecure people on here.

    Good on you for not taking things for granted and being ambitious. Keep grinding.

  • Stuff the 3rd friend.

    2 friends in one house is enough

  • +1

    Just don't. At some point, one of you guys will meet a girl and the nightmares will start. Not because sex noise and etc, as solid as the relationship became, more privacy, family, and here is where the paradise turns into a hell.

    Plus, you don't know them 100%, you don't know if they clean their own shit, if they respect enough. You know, some friends just because they are a friend, they feel like they can say (profanity) you and all good.

    Let me tell you a history. I had a group of riders, close friends and etc. We decided to go to Thredbo to see the snow, so we did. More than 1000km, then, the nightmares started, fights between them because someone did this or did that. It was a big shit. Luckily I booked a different place.
    End of the history, no one is friend anymore.

    "over $100k p/a before taxes and bonuses" is more than enough to find a cool place for you, with everything you want, fast internet (FTTB 90Mbps/s), amazing secure parking. I have everything I said for $520 per week in Mascot where I live with my gf.

    Do that and you can invite your friends over, and still have their friendship.
    Do what you are planning and you better have more friends.

    • +1

      You know, some friends just because they are a friend, they feel like they can say (profanity) you and all good.

      The problem ones are often those who fall in the space between "close friend" and "acquaintence". You have to constantly guess and ask yourself if they make take offence to certain things that are said or done, etc. Or you might offend them without even knowing and they don't want to say it either. Things can get awkward pretty easily. They're the ones to avoid.

  • +2

    I was in a sharehouse with a couple (who were quite overweight) that would just eat whatever from the fridge/pantry even if it wasn't theirs. They were happy to eat my one piece of salmon that I was planning for dinner, but got annoyed if I grabbed even a biscuit that was theirs. At first I was annoyed by this, but then I just decided to keep the freezer well stocked with ice creams. Seeing them upset every few weeks because their diet wasn't working filled me with enough happiness to forgive their transgressions.

    • Wow, talk about thinking outside the box! Best advice I've read all year and I'm going do the same

      What did they say when you asked them about your salmon?

      • "Oh were you going to eat that?" And I was like "do you mean the $9 individual piece of salmon that I bought yesterday?". I bought a couple of boxes of ice-creams each week with no intention of eating them and they were gone every week even though they were 'on a diet'. It was quite satisfying. I'm guessing they had no control and a decent amount of shame because they just pretended it didn't happen.

        • Why did u not move out?? Or, why did u move in with a bunch of fat couples in the first place??

          But then again, seeing them screw up their diet will be satisfying evil laugh

          I'm thinking of stocking my fridge with Coke and ice-cream since my housemates loves them. Those woolies bargain will come in handy :D

          • @Homr: I did move out, the process just took a while. They were nice enough people and it was a good house, just unfortunately they were slobs.

            Yeah it is a passive-aggressive power play. If that doesn't work try getting them addicted to meth.

            • @unqualified89: so u lived with just the fat couple? Were they in your age group? Must be a pretty boring house to live in…..

              I'm also a passive aggressive type person. I believe people won't actually understand until they get a taste of their own medicine

  • +1

    Firstly, congratulations on finishing uni and moving out, sounds like you really have your shit together! The humblebrag was a little unnecessary, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just want to give as much information as possible to get the best advice ;)

    First thing I think everyone that moves out should check out is the Tenants Union. They have some great fact sheets and resources about your rights as a tenant, even if you don't need it now chances are you will at some point so make sure to bookmark them https://www.tenants.org.au/tu

    I also saw on one of your replies that you're using a free service provided recommended by Meriton to get you the "best deal". These sort of services can be convenient, but as always if it's a free service then you are the product. They're much more interested in getting the biggest commission than they are in getting you the best deal. I would recommend getting an idea of your electricity and gas usage after 1-3 months of bills, then shop around yourself. The government comparison site is a good option, because they're (hopefully) not receiving any kickbacks from the providers https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/

    Finally, keep in mind that even though the idea of a brand new apartment is nice it certainly won't be without problems. I lived in a brand new apartment in Wolli Creek for almost 2 years and even though it looked really nice and perfect when I moved in, a lot of the work was quite shoddy and it had a lot of problems. I've heard similar experiences from a lot of friends who have moved into Meriton buildings.

    Hope this info helps!

  • +1

    Just shows you can earn 100k and still be completely clueless.

    • +1

      100k+ is like normal pay for a professional with 10 years experience

    • 100k is basic wage for a professional.

  • +1

    awesome clickbait read for a Friday. $100K must be the new $40K!

  • +2

    I did the share thing for 18 mths when I no longer needed the second bedroom for my small business.

    Started out well, but deteriorated over time to the point where I was happy when they decided to move out.

    Originally our work schedules were almost completely opposite, so we’d barely see each other, and it mean the kitchen and lounge area were always available for us to do our own thing. Then their work hours changed and they were always home before me so they’d essentially claimed the lounge room for the evening.

    They were a friend, but ultimately I preferred to have my own space when I chose to, something that’s hard in a share situation.

  • I’d rather spend $340 a week on rent in Brisbane living by myself in a nice apartment than share with two other people in Sydney. But that’s obviously if your job is in Brisbane and you’re over sharing houses. You either become BFFs or you’ll hate each other forever.

  • +4

    3 millennial dudes combined $260k cannot work out basic living costs and need to resort to ozbraggin'

Login or Join to leave a comment