Potential Landlord Asking for Change of Mind Fee?

Lpaddington on 13/02/2019 - 03:26
Last edited 13/02/2019 - 11:01

So the situation:

  • went to an inspection for a room.
  • emailed and texted for next steps (application etc.)
  • filled in application
  • get call from owner to ask for possible move in date - gets told that they will fill in tenancy agreement
  • receives tenancy agreement
  • decides on another place
  • texts back after a "reminder" text was sent saying that my situation has changed and can't move forward with it
  • receives text about paying a week's rent because I changed my mind and they took their listing off relevant websites
  • says I am not liable but is very adamant that I am

Am adamant that I am not liable. I have not signed a contract or handed over any money (including holding fee that was only presented at agreements presentation over email).

I have called Fair Trading and they say to leave it to owner to bring forward to tribunal if they wish.

Not sure if I'm in the wrong. Hoping the wisdom of the crowd can help.

Home & Garden Landlord

Comments

  • MrHyde on 13/02/2019 - 04:12
    +19

    No contract, not liable

    • Presence on 13/02/2019 - 08:12
      +12

      Offer them money?! You must be joking!! Not a chance in hell they'd do the same if the situation was reversed.

      • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 20:09
        -1

        Not a chance in hell they'd do the same if the situation was reversed.

        I actually would , offer something to tenant, if role was reversed whereby I as landlord, agreed wasted lots of tenants time, had them come inspect place, verbally agreed to rent place to them, they've then gone and given notice of leaving on their previous lease, organized and paid for everything to be packed up, booked moving truck (possibly had to pay deposit on truck) etc ..
        If in such a way 'situation was reversed' and I as landlord found someone willing to pay more rent (aka better offer, like OP got) than I would firstly, probably not break verbal agreement/promise, but if I did choose to break agreement, then most certainly I would offer tenant something, for canceling our deal

        • Presence on 13/02/2019 - 21:18

          Well thats very generous of you.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 21:20

            @Presence: Not generousity, IMO It just be the right thing to do .
            Also there is the verbal contract, even if it would be hard to prove in court or tribuneral etc. Doing right, shouldn't be decided based on whether you will be caught or held accountable in a court.

            • Presence on 13/02/2019 - 22:01

              @[Deactivated]: It's really not. Unless you want to be homeless you need to send in multiple applications at once - verbal agreement or not. If the owner was serious he'd have the paperwork returned immediately.

        • bobbified on 14/02/2019 - 08:22
          +1

          I agree with you - but I'd have a hard time figuring out what would be "sufficient" for the tenant to not be pissed off.

          As you said earlier, it's just better not to go back on your word once you've promised to hold the place.

          • [Deactivated] on 14/02/2019 - 12:51
            +1

            @bobbified:

            it's just better not to go back on your word once you've promised to hold the place.

            True, that's what I was getting at. It shouldn't always be about whether they can prove in a court that you had a verbal contract of sorts.
            Rather, it's best to be a man (or woman) of your word. And not go back on it.

  • Iamnotcheap on 13/02/2019 - 06:34

    Up to them to take it further, if they want to persue…

    Whilst I agree with the legality point you may have had a contract in play (verbal) - ignore emails / calls.

    Given they wanted to fill in the agreement for you, is probably the worrying sign that you were about to pay top dollar or they were hiding something - no one is ever nice enough to pre-fill applications…

  • Nice one baby on 13/02/2019 - 07:01
    +6

    Don't pay them anything. That's crazy. You would basically just be paying them for the right to read the contract they sent you.

  • Gronk on 13/02/2019 - 07:09
    +1

    Walk awayyyyyyyyyyy…

  • elgrande on 13/02/2019 - 07:17
    +9

    Not liable.

    You cannot have a contract to enter into a contract.

    If the landlord was going to take down the advert etc they should have asked for a deposit.. they didn't, so not your fault.

    Ignore them.

    • pegaxs on 13/02/2019 - 07:58
      +4

      Bingo. The landlord should not have removed the advertising until they had signed contract and deposit in hand.

      Laugh it off and move on with life. Sounds like they are just trying to milk money from suckers who pay.

  • whooah1979 on 13/02/2019 - 07:18

    The landlord sounds desperate lease out the property. The market must be bad.

  • brad1-8tsi on 13/02/2019 - 07:48

    They are just trying it on.

    Explain politely that they have no contract in place and a break fee was never discussed.

    Then advise them that if they continue harassing you you will go to the police.

  • markathome on 13/02/2019 - 07:53

    In Western Australia, the landlord may charge an option fee to cover this situation:

    https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer-protection/rent-appl…

    If the landlord doesn't charge an option fee, it's his fault. Laws vary by state but my guess is you're not liable and I am surprised that fair trading has advised it may go to a tribunal.

    I don't think it is sufficient to say I noted the option fee in an e-mail and, though not paid, the prospective tenant is now liable.

  • slow on 13/02/2019 - 08:03
    +1

    They shouldn't remove the listing until they have a signed contract, that is normal practice. As a landlord I don't believe a thing until I see it in writing.
    Same principle as with job offers

    Ignore them

    • trustnoone on 13/02/2019 - 08:17

      Agreed. I'm not a landlord (tenant) but most places I apply for don't take it off the market until I've either signed the contract or paid a deposit for a weeks worth of rent as well.

  • jjjaar on 13/02/2019 - 08:24
    +1

    Would love to know if they would have compensated you if someone else came in at the last minute and offered $1 more per week and they took it.

    My guess, probably not.

    Just ignore them. You’ve effectively walked up to McDonald’s, ordered a Big Mac but then decided you don’t want it any more and walked away without payment. Maccas wouldn’t have started cooking until they received payment, and they wouldn’t have asked you for a portion of the price for “inconvenience” because you walked up to the register. These guys shouldn’t have taken things down and assumed you were in without a bond and/or a contract. They will learn from this.

    • ozhunter on 13/02/2019 - 08:41

      Maccas wouldn’t have started cooking until they received payment

      Pretty sure they do.

      and they wouldn’t have asked you for a portion of the price for “inconvenience” because you walked up to the register.

      It would be because they ordered the food. Maybe they'd like to, but wouldn't because it would be hard to enforce and it wouldn't be worth their time or effort.

      These guys shouldn’t have taken things down and assumed you were in without a bond and/or a contract

      Agree, or they should have asked for an option fee(if applicable in your state)

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 13/02/2019 - 08:34
    +1

    Tell them to take a hike.

  • bobbified on 13/02/2019 - 08:58

    •receives tenancy agreement
    •decides on another place
    •texts back after a "reminder" text was sent saying that my situation has changed and can't move forward with it

    Did you tell them that you decided on another place? Or only after they texted to remind you? That could be why they're annoyed.

    But that still doesn't make you liable to pay any compensation.

  • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 09:27

    You haven't signed a contract or handed over any money. And you don't want anything from the landlord.

    Just walk away.

  • dazweeja on 13/02/2019 - 09:53
    +1

    I don't think this is as cut and dried as others are making out. There is such a thing as a holding fee in NSW and the OP admits this was disclosed to them:

    https://tenanthelp.com.au/nsw-holding-fees/
    https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/2010/42/part3/…

    This would have to be disclosed when submitting the application though so if it wasn't, I'd say the OP is in the clear.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 10:12
      +2

      If they weren't holding the holding fee, nothing was held and you cannot expect someone to pay an invoice for a holding fee for something they no longer want.

      • dazweeja on 13/02/2019 - 10:34

        The landlord is arguing that the property was held for them (and removed from advertising), which is what the holding fee is paying for. The tenant did receive the benefit, which was an obligation on the part of the landlord not to enter into an agreement with anyone else within 7 days. There are many occasions where a fee is payable after the product/service/benefit has been provided although of course this wouldn't normally be one of them - trying to collect what is essentially a non-refundable deposit after the fact is very unusual.

        I'm not saying that the landlord has a case but if there was disclosure at the time of application, eg. a line on the application form that was signed by the OP saying they are liable for a holding fee of $xx, then it is possible.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 10:54
          +1

          I'm not saying that the landlord has a case but if there was disclosure at the time of application, eg. a line on the application form that was signed by the OP saying they are liable for a holding fee of $xx, then it is possible.

          I'm with you there. On a legal basis, there is nothing much here but on a moral basis, if there was a clear verbal understanding and the landlord acted in good faith, it would only be honourable if the potential tenant were to compensate for the loss of listing and income.

        • bobbified on 13/02/2019 - 10:55
          +3

          The landlord could've asked for a holding fee to lock OP in before the lease agreement is signed. And if the OP changed his/her mind after that, the landlord has a case to keep that fee.

          But since the landlord didn't request/charge that holding fee from the OP and has removed the listings, etc, that is now the landlord's problem.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 11:00

            @bobbified: In WA there is an application fee, which is refunded if the landlord rejects it, and credited if succesful, but kept by the landlord if you change your mind. When the market is tight for renters people put in multiple applications. The fee is capped at less than $100 (cant remember exactly)

            • bobbified on 13/02/2019 - 11:09
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: It's similar in Victoria - the landlord may ask for a holding fee while an application is considered.

              In this case, the landlord didn't ask OP to pay any holding fee at the time of application. They can't then go back and ask for that fee after an applicant changes their mind.

        • markathome on 13/02/2019 - 12:45
          -2

          Just a note dazweeja, I've kept a Coke in the fridge for you at my work. If you want it, it's $20. If you don't that's fine, but I will need to charge you a $5 holding fee.

          • dazweeja on 13/02/2019 - 13:24

            @markathome: If you tell me about that fee - let's call it a cancellation fee because that's the terminology that people are familiar with in this context - when I apply for that Coke, then that's reasonable. As long as you agree not to give that Coke to someone else in the period that we have agreed upon.

            I think I was pretty clear that the landlord only has a case if the fee was disclosed when submitting the application. I mentioned that in both my comments.

    • paddington on 13/02/2019 - 10:55

      I never admitted that there was a holding fee involved.

      What actually happened was that when they sent through the tenancy agreement - they just revealed that they would need a holding fee out of nowhere.

      No money has been transfered between us yet and nothing has been signed.

      • dazweeja on 13/02/2019 - 11:08
        +1

        I do think that in your case, if you weren't told about the holding fee when you submitted the application you have nothing to worry about. I wouldn't expect them to pursue it either. It may be the case that at their end somebody forgot to ask for a holding fee when you submitted the application and they're just trying it on now.

        I was more having a discussion about possible scenarios where the landlord might have a case.

      • ozhunter on 13/02/2019 - 11:10

        they just revealed that they would need a holding fee out of nowhere.

        Doesn't seem to be uncommon to prevent things like this happening, but since he didn't get the holding fee from you, I'd say you're off the hook.

    • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 11:30
      +1

      It just means the landlord can ask for and receive a holding fee before a tenancy agreement is signed. Here, the landlord didn't ask for and didn't receive anything.

      It's like a deposit - it only matters if a deposit is paid in the first place. You can't ask for a deposit after a deal is called off.

  • Seraphin7 on 13/02/2019 - 12:38

    The practical answer is do nothing at this stage. The ball is in the court of the landlord/agent. If they want to pursue you, they will. It's unlikely they will and this is the most likely and best outcome. Worst outcome is they do pursue you through the relevant tribunal and you end up getting stiffed with the fee. That said, if you can prove everything you've laid out here, I would consider that to be an unlikely outcome.

  • dane45 on 13/02/2019 - 13:20

    I'm going to go with the general consensus here that you aren't liable. If the landlord pushes the issue any further, I'd recommend that you politely (but firmly) make it clear that no "holding fee" was communicated to you before you submitted an application and so that if they'd like to take the issue any further they can do so by the tribunal. After that, I would not engage in any further communication.

    The issue will hopefully stop there, but in case the landlord does press it further it would be a good idea to gather records of all your communications with the landlord (dates, times, what was discussed, face-to-face/text/email). That way things will be easier in the unlikely event of having to present your case to a magistrate.

  • Samsungnote10 on 18/02/2019 - 01:30

    Obviously you guys are not landlords!

    This sort of stuff happens all the time.
    Youve got people saying their interested, bla bla. Chosen a move in date, but its not confirmed until they their deposit and sign the dotted line.

    And for the landlors to be told oops we cant contact them anymore or they found somewhere else.

    The only thing you can do is swear and move on

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