Ute Choice - Triton MQ Exceed Vs BT-50 XTR

seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 11:00

Mid-Life crisis fast approaching, plus I need to replace my older car anyway!

Rather than a sports car, I fancy a Ute, a little more practical, and more capable, but liveable as a daily driver.

Have heard good and bad about pretty much every model out there, but cost/servicing/what I like thrown in to the mix, I've shortlisted a triton exceed MQ or a BT-50 XTR. Both 4x4, rear diff lock, more fruit on the exceed but also an older model. BT-50 going to be replaced soon, but i'm planning on keeping it a few years as I don't do mega k's.

I won't be towing much if at all, occasional Bunnings trailer . Probably some beach and mild off roading, nothing horrendous.

Has anyone ever owned one/both of these, and if so, your experiences?

Things to look out for/avoid?

Automotive

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 01/03/2019 - 11:02
    +4

    In before spackbace.

    Hilux

    /thread

    • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 11:22

      Lol, it's almost like he gets paid to sell them.

      • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 11:53
        +1

        To be fair, if I was selling utes I'd want to sell Hiluxes too. Everyone's seen the Top Gear episode by now right.

        • spackbace on 01/03/2019 - 13:55
          -1

          Given the strong resale on them, why wouldn't ya?!

          Not to mention the sales numbers… you know, in the last few months, Toyota has sold nearly as many Hilux's as Holden has sold vehicles…! Within a few hundred units. Crazy

          • brendanm on 02/03/2019 - 19:02

            @spackbace: Holden sell nothing that is better than anything though, so it's quite a low bar to set. Toyota sell cars purely on tradition now, they don't offer anything better or more reliable than anyone else,, especially with their CVT and dpf issues lately.

            • spackbace on 02/03/2019 - 19:31

              @brendanm: Tradition? Not exactly.

              No serious competitor to LC200, LC70, Prado, Hiace.

              Yaris is suffering against better competition.
              Corolla is suffering due to price.
              Camry is suffering due to modern desires for SUV.
              RAV4 is suffering due to old design (will change with new model).
              Kluger & Fortuner are suffering due to the amount of competition, most cheaper.
              Hilux shows no signs of slowing its sales, despite dpf issues (last I checked, all the other major Ute's have had issues).

              Toyota is rapidly increasing their hybrid vehicle range, and the popularity has surpassed demand. We're seeing major waiting periods for factory orders due to lack of supply of the batteries, caused by high demand. They're at the forefront of hybrid, while the other major manufacturers are lagging behind in any new form of technology (Hyundai just starting hybrid, Volt/Leaf etc pure EV cars are massively overpriced).

              Selling from tradition? No.

              While I've acknowledged they're far from perfect, you think 2 recalls to 2 of the major variants are an issue? Are you ignoring the multitude of issues that Ranger have had, the issues with Navara, the Focus gearbox issues seeing customers getting refunds on 6yo+ vehicles?

              The issue is always how well a brand deals with a recall, and if it even issues a recall in the first place or let's to get to a class action lawsuit. I had great delight in seeing customers of mine get a full refund for their 6yo focus, after it got its 5th clutch, to then buy a Corolla off me.

              Selling from tradition? As a mechanic, all you've mentioned are the 2 items which Toyota issued recalls for, yet didn't mention anything else. How interesting you couldn't fault their reliability. Coz the cars will be fixed under recall, and will go on for years as we all know.

              • brendanm on 02/03/2019 - 20:49

                @spackbace: Quite a few competitors to Prado actually, I'll give you the LC though.

                Toyota's reliability is ok, but is massively overblown. When I was working in WA, I worked on a lot of LandCruiser a, hiluxs and patrols. I've honestly lost count of the number of LandCruiser and hilux gearboxes, diffs, and transfers I've rebuilt. Then we have the classic swivel hub seals and cvs in them, also done a million of them. Have done one patrol gearbox, as it was a bit noisy, and a couple of sets of swivel hub seals.

                We then have the sludging issues with the v6s, have replaced engines on hiluxes, Prados and camrys, and cleaned out many an Aurion. Had one 1mz that blocked up the gallery to the front bank cam, and literally ate into the head until oil just poured out the side.

                Plenty of 1vds with oil burning issues, and subsequent motor destruction. 1kd injector seal issues. 1kd head gasket issues. 7m head gasket issues, not torqued enough from the factory. The late 00s corollas with the pressed tin water pumps.

                Some engines are great though, the jzs, K series petrols, 2h, 1hz and 1hd are all pretty good. And of course the 1uz.

                Toyota are generally so far behind in technology it's not funny, the only thing the excel at are hybrids. They stuck to using 4 speed autos for an embarrassingly long time.

                You may get the impression I hate Toyota's, but I don't, I've owned a few and they've made me a bit of cash. However they aren't the be all and end all of reliability, and the price of things like the RAV4 and hilux is actually embarrassing. $32k for a 2wd CVT base model RAV4? Funnily enough my dad recently bought a new RAV4 for some reason haha. I simply think there are better value propositions, at least they've finally upped their warranty a bit.

                Edit- forgot to mention the HiAce still sticks with its deathtrap cab over engine design for some reason, but the resale is absolutely incredible.

                Edit again - forgot the L series which was pretty great as well.

            • Geoff-bargain on 02/03/2019 - 20:19

              @brendanm: Toyota: so reliable that they are the terrorists choice: https://youtu.be/mM0gxnCvINk

  • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 11:23
    +4

    Bt50 over triton any day of the week. Ranger over bt50 purely because it looks better.

    • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 12:13

      why do you say BT over Triton?

      • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 14:44

        Being a mechanic and having had experience with both. Also have a mate who has had issues with his triton. Even 3.2l vs 2.4l is enough. Have a look at the torque curves. Bt50 peak is at about 1400 and goes until 3000rpm. Peak torque is very limited by the ecu. Triton peaks at 2500rpm.

        • azonki on 02/03/2019 - 11:45

          The Ranger also has a softer ride than the BT50 which makes it far better to drive around town.
          The Ranger is also cheaper to service based on our experiences with Mazda Dealer vs Ford Dealer costs for the same base ute.
          Both the Ranger and the BT50 will both hold their value way better than the Triton.
          And, the Ranger/BT50 is also much more comfortable than the Hilux on long trips IMHO based on experience with both.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/03/2019 - 11:49

    Should be Ranger vs Hilux unless you're on a very strict budget.

    • HighAndDry on 01/03/2019 - 11:54
      -1

      I think it might be that OP doesn't really need a ute and it is more of a mid life crisis purchase, so less/no reason to spend as much.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/03/2019 - 12:11

        I got one for the same reason 😂.

        It became my daily after I replaced the mats with PU bucket mats.

        No more worrying about the little things. I just trash the thing around.

        • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 12:29

          Tshow what did you buy?

          • [Deactivated] on 01/03/2019 - 12:49

            @seraphim2017: 2018 Wildtrak fully optioned in manual.

  • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 12:13
    +1

    HighandDry has it, I don't NEED a ute (technically, I guess I could live car-les but I like the convenience!). It'd be useful, but not essential, I could always hire a ute from bunny's the few times a year I need to move big things.

    Hilux. $$$ and DPF issues aside (low k user urban driving = not dpf friendly. Plus, how they've dealt with it, and sad as it sounds, once I used android auto in a car head unit, I hated going back to not having it!.

    Ford ranger. $$$ for a butch looking bt50? with fords reputation for giving a toss about it's customers? just doesn't appeal. Plus, I'm originally from a country where, if aspiring to own a ford of a holden (Vauxhall) was your life goal, you really needed to aim higher! Ford's are loved here, but I just can't see why, falcons are complete sh1tboxes and I've never seen a territory that wasn't driven by a tool.

    Budget has partly constrained it, but I have had mitsi's and mazdas and their service/reliability is ok.

    The BT50 is a bigger unit all round than the triton but has less toys. as I'm keeping it a while, will the toys become less interesting as the size/grunt becomes an issue?

    Hmm, decisions. Any reason why the BT is better than the Mitsi? surely super select is the only non amarok that is actually 4x4 on road as well as off, which is better than the normal ute 2wd on road?

    • [Deactivated] on 01/03/2019 - 12:19

      Becase the BT/Ranger sells far more units and so far (apart from the new 2.0 biturbo), there has been close to zilch major issues. Also, being a more popular model, bigger variety of mods, cheaper aftermarket parts and most of all, in stock mode it handles offroading a little bit better.

    • spackbace on 01/03/2019 - 13:59

      Hilux. $$$ and DPF issues aside (low k user urban driving = not dpf friendly. Plus, how they've dealt with it, and sad as it sounds, once I used android auto in a car head unit, I hated going back to not having it!.

      You'd get the $$s back on the other end, either through strong resale or known reliability.

      If low-km urban driving, any DPF won't appreciate it. Diesels need highway driving, not stop-start.

      Only a few Hilux's actually had any DPF issues, it was all very minor. Toyota issued a recall, updated the software on older cars and put a manual burn switch in the new ones. Would you rather they buried their head in the sand (a la Holden, where I used to work, and saw Captivas/Cruzes coming in daily)?

      I can give or take Android Auto personally. I've used it, and had to be very specific on the usb cable used, and it would take too long to initiate. Plus, I like just keeping my phone in my pocket when I don't need GPS. Or has AA all gone wireless now?

      • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 14:46

        Hahah only a few hiluxs had dpf issues, and it was minor? That's a good one. Every second one I saw was pumping out smoke, plenty of people that had to get Toyota to replace the dpf and 5th injector numerous times.

      • PinzVidz on 01/03/2019 - 16:08

        Only a few Hilux's actually had any DPF issues

        It's a lot, Spack, not a few. Not a recall, rather a CSE and there have been several software updates now. Customers of models prior to the factory installed DPF switch (with exception to early builds) now have the option to have a switch fitted with the latest software update, plus instrument cluster customisation for indicated auto DPF burn. TMC/TMCA are definitely getting on top of it now.

        once I used android auto in a car head unit, I hated going back to not having it

        OP, if you buy a HiLux, get rid of the shit Toyota Link head unit and fit a Kenwood DDX919WS with a 200mm fascia (or DDX9019DABS if using a fascia insert).

  • Euphemistic on 01/03/2019 - 12:23
    +1

    No real opinion on either, but of the two the bt50 seems to have not been beaten quite as hard with the ugly stick as the triton.

    I’ve driven recent model ranger, Amarok, Colorado and Hilux a bit on the roads and don’t have much preference for any of them. They each have pros and cons.

    Selectable 4wd for on road could be a good thing, given that the back end of a Ute is a lot more likely to let go in the wet. Couple of times I’ve struggled in the wet on a steep hill in 2wd. And taking off from an intersection can be a gamble without any traction control.

    Ive owned a 2007 Nissan Navara d40 for about 3 years. At the time I bought it it Had the best rear seat space for value and I was confident enough in the drivetrain having also owned a pathfinder. The current shape ranger, Hilux, Amarok were out of price range, the others didn’t have enough rear seat space.

    • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 12:28

      ironically, I don't mind either, and they're the most 'effeminate' looking of the utes! I'm still not sure why ute's look masculine or feminine, but I guess it's all in the head of the person behind the wheel.

      The last thing I'd want is for my vehicle to define if I'm 'well hard' or not!

  • spackbace on 01/03/2019 - 14:02
    +1

    A dual cab, diesel ute is a practical daily drive? Lol you are kidding right?!

    The longest car you can pick - makes it a bitch at the shops.

    Diesels need long runs, not short drives, that's for petrol/hybrid vehicles.

    Not towing much, so why get a car rated to 3T+?

    Diesel costs more to service than petrol. More frequent intervals too.

    Probably some beach and mild off roading, nothing horrendous.

    For the sake of buying what, a $45-50k ute, why wouldn't you buy a basic 4x4 wagon? Fortuner/MUX/Pajero Sport. Hell even a Suzuki Grand Vitara would do the trick.

    • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 14:27

      I think you missed the bit where I mentioned a mid life crisis? lol

      I have an outlander, it's big in the back, but like a paj sport fortuner etc, can't remove the top, where a canopy ute can do both.

      Drove a diesel before I emigrated as a daily driver, never needed that much more than a petrol, it's some weird myth out here that they're hard to care for, they're just very different.

      distance I cover means It'd be annual services on either petrol or diesel, but I do see the points you're making.

      Parking at the shops isn't hard, I've seen people struggle to park a matiz!

      • spackbace on 01/03/2019 - 14:33

        I think you missed the bit where I mentioned a mid life crisis? lol

        So buy a V8 or a turbo lol dual cab utes are a dime a dozen, and is (imo) a stupid idea for a daily, when you don't need the size/towing ability.

        Drove a diesel before I emigrated as a daily driver, never needed that much more than a petrol, it's some weird myth out here that they're hard to care for, they're just very different.

        Any diesel has higher Capped Price Servicing costs than a petrol. Generally more frequent, definitely more expensive. I mean, if you don't want to service as per the logbook that's on you, but the proof is in the pricing and it's standard across every manufacturer. First 3yrs, a diesel will cost more to maintain than a petrol, that's a fact.

        Parking at the shops isn't hard, I've seen people struggle to park a matiz!

        But those people are awful parkers regardless. Do an overnight test drive, and park at your local shops on a busy night, then tell me you can deal with that on a weekly basis.

    • Euphemistic on 01/03/2019 - 17:00

      For the sake of buying what, a $45-50k ute, why wouldn't you buy a basic 4x4 wagon? Fortuner/MUX/Pajero Sport. Hell even a Suzuki Grand Vitara would do the trick.

      Kinda funnny recommending a fortuna/MUX/Pajero sport after the comments about a Ute being too big and having a huge underused tow capacity. All those, as you undoubtedly know Spackbace, are a twin cab Ute with a wagon body. Sure, they might be a little shorter, but there won’t be much other difference.

      One of the advantages a wagon has over a Ute is the ability to put long stuff in easily and that it is more secure. I don’t have a canopy and use my Ute tray quite often, but it does concern me that items aren’t secure. Having a canopy would reduce the usefulness of the tray.

      • spackbace on 01/03/2019 - 17:27
        +1

        Lol yeah I guess my mind was just on those sorta cars!

        Hell even an AWD RAV4 or similar would probably do the trick lol

        • Euphemistic on 01/03/2019 - 20:33

          And don’t forget the Ranger/Everest brothers.

    • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 14:29

      never going to pretend a BT or triton is a hilux/ranger. But they're out of my price bracket, unless I get a Winnebago, as I'd have to live in it! lol

      • Kangal on 01/03/2019 - 15:19
        +1

        Some dualcabs are better than others.
        …but it really depends on what YOU will use them for.

        Navara seems to offer the best value, but I'd think twice before that Renault design/quality.

        Triton offers the best "car like" feel and quality.

        The Dmax offers the best "truck like" feel and properties.

        The Ford Ranger has the better looks and parts availability.

        The BT-50 is the worse looking Ranger but cheaper.

        The Toyota Hilux has the better support and resale value.

        The VW Amarok V6 has the best performance and tray size.

        The Mercedes has the best interior.

        The Colorado has the best badge (lol).

        I think with a dualcab, the tray and performance is very important. The interior should be easy to clean and functional. The car should be safe. You should demand reliability/quality and parts and support. I don't subscribe to the resale value position much, style, and price differences aren't as big as the differences within the cars.

        For those reasons, I think the Ford Ranger is the dualcab to go for. It's more expensive than the BT-50 but has a couple extra goodies and there are more Ford dealers/support around Australia.

        VW loses because of the horrible support they supply to Australians. The Hilux has slipped behind the others when it comes to performance and tray (and some parts quality). The Dmax is a hard one to top, but a riskier bet than Ranger/Hilux from an owner's perspective. The Navara, Colorado, BT-50, Triton, Mercedes have never been a leader in this category and their R&D departments and support reflect that. I would be weary about the 2020 Ford Ranger though, it will be designed in USA instead of Australia, so it should be lower quality. The 2021 Ranger will inherit the Amarok engine and the 2021 BT-50 will inherit the DMax chassis so that will be interesting. But 2020-2021 will not be interesting for the Triton, Navara, Mercedes, or Colorado.

        Just be weary, owning a dualcab is kind of like a midlife crisis/hobby…. it can be fun but also expensive when modding. A better approach is to get something used that's half-modded and enjoy (you're looking into the difference of $30k versus $70k). Good Luck!

        • seraphim2017 on 01/03/2019 - 15:28

          Thanks! that was well balanced and informative! yes, I was looking at 1-2 years old, 20-40 k's, with 12k of add ons (canopy towbar bullbars) but no major drive train tweaking (i.e, like me, wanted one but didn't go off road in it).

          Ranger is just out of price range for me, hence bt50.

          • Kangal on 01/03/2019 - 15:44

            @seraphim2017: Well, with your viewpoint whatever you get I can tell it's going to be decent and value (OzBargain style).

            I was lucky to get my vehicle recently. 2013 Navara with Anchor points, Sports Rack, Bullbar, Towbar, Sidesteps, and Tray protection. Has all 4x4 features, Turbodiesel engine, 140,000km on it, in great nick, and has Auto transmission (easier to sell, more designated drivers for trips). Also came with 2 months rego, new tyres, and a Touchscreen DVD/Bluetooth console. $15,000.

            Its worth about $20k-$25k, but because of the stigma against Navaras and the Thailand model, I managed to snag it.

            I think I did good, because I did my research and pulled the trigger quickly when I found it listed on the same day (not hesitated).

  • brendanm on 01/03/2019 - 19:36

    If you want to have a mid life crisis, and get something diesel that can carry stuff, get a V10 touareg.

  • seraphim2017 on 05/03/2019 - 14:27

    Hmm,
    I'm still no closer to deciding, so I'll get whichever one I can get the best deal on! Given how much bull bars/canopy's/towbars cost, Whichever low k example with a full history I can find that has those will be what I buy. BT would be slightly preferable to Triton, but I don't think either would be bad for me, and would resell if I bought it and realised a year later I'm an old man in a big car, and buy a yaris instead! :)

    I did briefly consider the following:

    Colorado - Had a Vauxhall in the UK, was fine. Holden are however sh1t, and 9 month service interval?!?!?!
    Hilux - see 6 month service interval on the years I would be looking at, plus old tech in their cabin compared to all other, no matter the resell value
    Ranger -it's a butch BT50 and out of price range as a like for like
    Amarok - made in argentina. Would buy a VW in the UK (indeed I did), but here, 'Euro' cars are a foolish choice). Could get one cheaper than either choice, but there's that reliability thing and manufacturer support
    Navara - Don't know why, just don't like it much
    D-max - decent ones are our of budget, and a little rough on the drive to be used every day.

    I guess any car can be a lemon, but it's more what happens WHEN it is rather than finding a manufacturer that never makes them. It's such a complicated piece of tech that things will go wrong.

    Thanks all for all your advice! :)

    • brendanm on 05/03/2019 - 14:45

      Have you actually driven any? Massive difference in the driving experience between triton and bt50.

      Also amaroks are fine generally, I know someone who cracked 300k km in his about 6 months back.

  • seraphim2017 on 05/03/2019 - 14:50

    driven the triton, and been driven in the bt, so need to try that myself.

    I was under the impression VW didn't do much for customers when they had problems. Maybe I've been watching too much auto expert on youtube! :)

    • brendanm on 05/03/2019 - 17:51

      Bt50 drives many times better than the triton. No offence, but john Cadogan is an idiot. I'm sure vw have screwed people over, all manufacturers have. They replaced (and still do) 7 speed DSG gearboxes in cars miles out of warranty. Personally saw them replace a 118tsi engine, miles out of warranty, that the owner had serviced himself for a number of services, with no cost.

      I'd still take the bt50 over the amarok (unless it's the V6 Amarok) purely for the torque curve, and actual low range in the automatics.

      • seraphim2017 on 05/03/2019 - 19:12

        Thanks. I'll try to drive them both one after the other to compare, all will seem great compared to mine!

        What do you drive, out of interest? A ute?(which one?)

        The Touareg, nice car, but a car nonetheless. Off road capable car certainly. Not going to scratch the mid life crisis itch! 🤣

  • seraphim2017 on 05/03/2019 - 19:58

    Side thought, are the 2wd utes just pointless? BT does a 4 x 2 with good ground clearance but no 4wd/rear diff. How stuck would you be on the beach/rougher roads?

    • Euphemistic on 06/03/2019 - 07:07

      2wd would be easy to get stuck in soft stuff, like soft sand, mud etc. a 2wd with good ground clearance will go most places a 4wd will go. Typically it isn’t traction that you lose first, it is ground clearance. I wouldn’t recommend 2wd if you are considering beach excursions, getting from the rod to the wet firm sand usually requires 4wd, but then once in the computer wet sand 2wd will probably work fine

      Low range will get you into steeper terrain, but an automatic will reduce that problem a lot for a 2wd although an unladen Ute would lose traction easier than a rear wheel drive wagon because of the light back end.

      • seraphim2017 on 06/03/2019 - 10:19

        Thanks Euphemistic, interesting to read (not done any serious off roading so good to know what gives first, and I guess tyre choice has quite a lot of bearing on traction anyway, so decent toyo or BF goodrich on a 2wd might be better than road tyres on a 4wd in some circumstances off road, but then, noisy and less efficient on road as a trade off!

        • spackbace on 06/03/2019 - 14:33

          2WD will plummet in resale compared to 4WD, so depending on length of ownership, that can certainly be something to think about. What you save now on buying the 2WD variant, won't be negated further down the line.

          • seraphim2017 on 06/03/2019 - 15:02

            @spackbace: I guess that's true, but would paying 8k less plus simpler mechanicals and better economy translate to a loss at the end? The main loss is the removal of any off road ability should I want to, which is sort of the point. It's a tough choice, and one I'll be living with a few years, so want to make the right one, and am leaning to 4x4 just because! :)

          • Euphemistic on 06/03/2019 - 17:13

            @spackbace: Good point about resale value of 2wd options of 4wd (not awd) vehicles.

            I find AWD kinda pointless, unless you are often driving to the snow. A 2wd version will do 90% of what the AWD version will do for cheaper.

            I bought a Subaru Forester before my current 4wd Ute. I mainly chose it because of the extra ground clearance and limited choices for wagons. I don’t think it ever needed the extra traction of AWD the way I used it. I used the extra ground clearance a few times getting to mountain bike trails, but a lifted 2wd would have done it. Sure the forester was great in the wet, but you can drive a 2wd in the wet, just a little more cautiously.

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