Having a Cat in a Rental without Owner Permission

[Deactivated] on 11/03/2019 - 01:23
Last edited 13/03/2019 - 22:25 by 1 other user

So we asked our landlord if we could get a dog, they said it shouldn't be an issue given there had been pets in the apartment with a prior tenant and same owner, and almost every apartment in this complex has a dog in it, but they would ask the owner and let us know. We didn't get a response so we asked again a few weeks later. Never heard back.

Welp, instead we have a rescue kitten. How are they likely to react in an inspection? She's purely an inside cat, has had 0 misses of the kitty litter, and the floor isn't carpeted anyway.

I know we shouldn't have done it, but it is what it is. Will they flip out and demand we get rid of it? NSW btw

EDIT: inspection is all over, i'm not sure how some of you keep your houses/animals but in the 100 seconds the agent was in the house they didn't have any issue (I was hanging out in the garden with the cat). My understanding now after much consultation/advice/abuse is that if the contract had a clause for pets (it didn't) then the agent could threaten to evict me if I didn't get rid of the cat, or start a court process to get me evicted. In a house which has previously had pets that wasn't very likely anyway but it doesn't matter now, wasn't worth the risk.

And if anyone was wondering, here she is in all her glory https://imgur.com/a/qDdqQgu

Home & Garden

Comments

        • HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 13:31
          -1

          No, I'm annoyed when people deliberately break a promise and try to get out of it. Imagine the reverse - landlord agrees that they'll do something, say change the locks, after OP moves in, and then doesn't.

          Would anyone be defending the landlord in that situation? Why do people defend OP when they're the one breaching the lease?

          • ssyl9 on 13/03/2019 - 13:57
            +2

            @HighAndDry:

            Why do people defend OP when they're the one breaching the lease?

            Because they are not?

            Because the lease from the real estate agent did not have a no pet clause thus the owner did not breach anything?

            It is out of courtesy that OP tried contact the owner to notified the change in situation (from no pets to pet) but there is nothing stopping OP from getting the cat.

            Truth be told, if it was me I wont even try to contact the owner. After I contacted the agent and confirmed pets are ok, I would just go get one. If the owner has any problems with that then talk to the agent.

            • HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 14:16

              @ssyl9:

              After I contacted the agent and confirmed pets are ok

              That's not what happened. From the OP:

              they said it shouldn't be an issue… but they would ask the owner and let us know.

              Why do people insist on twisting the facts? Plus, OP asked for a dog, and then got a kitten. (Cats are generally better on properties than dogs - cleaner and less boisterous, but it is still a difference in what OP's asking).

              I'm not saying there's definitely a pet clause - OP is saying there is, or acting as though there is. But in most tenancy agreements drafted and used by agents, that clause is fairly standard.

              • ssyl9 on 13/03/2019 - 17:57
                +1

                @HighAndDry:

                In complete fairness we spoke to the real estate agent about our intention to get an animal while we were signing and they were supportive and had no issue with it, only stating they would reach out to the owner to get confirmation

                This is in one of his comments

                The contract is black and white. If there is a strict no then the agent will have mentioned it when brought up.

                The fact that the agent need to ask the owner means there is no mention of such clause in the contract, and as it is not mentioned, I believe OP is not in the wrong.

                • HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 18:31

                  @ssyl9:

                  The contract is black and white. If there is a strict no then the agent will have mentioned it when brought up.

                  From OP's comments, I think it's more of a "needs landlord approval" rather than a strict "no". Which is why:

                  they would reach out to the owner to get confirmation

                  Problem is, they didn't wait for this confirmation.

                  • ssyl9 on 13/03/2019 - 19:08

                    @HighAndDry: Fair assumption

                    I actually did not think that there will be such vague points in contracts.

                    however in points like that and if the case went up to the tribunal, OP can still argue they went to try to contact the owner to resolve but didn't hear anything back for a long time

                    and if they insisted that the cat would be put down or given away to someone else if they wait any longer, I think they can still get away with it as it is on the owner not responding in time.

                    Its a crap thing to do, I certainly do not recommend it, but the owner is kinda also in the wrong by not responding as well.

                    • HighAndDry on 14/03/2019 - 09:40

                      @ssyl9: It's not vague at all - it says: "You need landlord permission to do this". Not getting a response means OP didn't get permission. It's like someone asking to borrow $10 from you - you're not under an obligation to respond.

                      • ssyl9 on 14/03/2019 - 13:55

                        @HighAndDry: Vague as in its not a clear yes or no.

                        you're not under an obligation to respond.

                        The problem with this is that if you put that "ask landlord's permission", you are pretty much obligated to provide a response if people asked about it and not leave people hanging.

                        I also think it is sort of a dodgy mis-selling if the clause wrote "Ask for owners permission", its like trying to lure in tenants who might be future pet owners by not giving it a clear no when most times this means a clear no.. or no response from owner.

                        I do believe after an adequate number of attempts to contact and time waited for response, an email can be sent saying "if there are no responses to this email within the week we will assume there are no objections to keep a pet", allow for another week for response and if no response, just get the pet.

                        I do get where you are coming from and it is a di*k move from OP to get the cat before the response. But the owner is not totally innocent here.

          • HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 14:55
            -1

            @[Deactivated]:

            just to tell everyone how mad you are that they are caring for an animal lmao.

            I admire the fact that you took in a rescue kitten. That was literally one of the first things I said in this thread. I don't like the fact that you knowingly (and blatantly) apparently breached your lease to do it.

            It's called holding more than one opinion at a time.

            And no, the bond is in case you breach the bond, it's not so that you can breach the bond. That's the same logic as saying - well I pay a fine when I speed, so it's okay to speed.

            • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 15:15

              @HighAndDry: But you were taking issue with the potential condition a tenant leaves a house in. That's why the tenant forcibly pays a bond, so the owner can recoup damages. Whether that damage is caused by myself, a baby, or a kitten, the onus is still on me to either fix it or lose part of my bond. My point is the tenant can't just "ignore" the condition the house is expected to be lived in - they are financially obligated to keep it in good condition (as I am…)

              • HighAndDry on 13/03/2019 - 16:05
                -1

                @[Deactivated]:

                But you were taking issue with the potential condition a tenant leaves a house in.

                Just as I can hold more than one opinion at a time, I can also take issue with more than one thing at a time. You can't breach the lease so long as you don't cause additional damage.

  • Dreamcast on 11/03/2019 - 22:48
    +2

    As your land lord, gtfo out!

    • Other on 12/03/2019 - 18:08
      -1

      Nope.

      Sigh

  • MITM on 11/03/2019 - 23:25

    What % of the renting population own pets? Must be over 1/2, so by excluding pet owners, you’re limiting prospective tenants from funding your investment.

    • Ulysses31 on 15/03/2019 - 20:43

      Risk vs reward

  • justwii on 11/03/2019 - 23:40
    +1

    Everything should be black and white on the contract. If nothing was said there, your landlord cannot possibly suddenly add a clause to the contract until the contract ends.
    If the contract said you need to get approval first, your landlord has every right to kick you out due to your breaching of the contract.

    Just out of curiosity, if your landlord said ok, just add $50 per week on top of your current rent, are you still keeping it?

    • Other on 12/03/2019 - 18:09
      +1

      Everything should be black and white on the contract. If nothing was said there, your landlord cannot possibly suddenly add a clause to the contract until the contract ends.

      Hay we have a Winner!

  • mezje on 12/03/2019 - 07:40

    We wanted a dog but realised it was probably a bad idea at this stage of our lives as we want to travel and the landlord was likely to say no. Instead we went to RSPCA and looked at some cats, we loved a 9yo cat so we called our landlord and explained the above, mentioned the age, inside cat etc and they were fine with it, he was actually happy we were getting an older cat.

    Now that you have done it without consent things are a bit tricky, either you hide everything to do with the cat every time there is an inspection or be straight up…

    • Milk tea on 12/03/2019 - 19:06

      Yep as a landlord I'd find it more respectful if someone explained the situation to me instead of sneaking a pet arounde. The ops could really have called and emailed before adopting a pet. Ringing a place twice isn't enough

      • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 15:16
        +1

        I actually spoke in person then emailed twice.

        • mezje on 13/03/2019 - 15:34

          …And what did they say?

          • Nads2407 on 14/03/2019 - 11:59
            +2

            @mezje: my guess is no, from the no reply.

            • mezje on 14/03/2019 - 15:03
              +2

              @Nads2407: Mine too, I just want OP to admit here :P

  • scbrother on 12/03/2019 - 07:49
    +2

    You asked twice. Cats are harmless and hardly create a mess. The worst thing that could happen is you dirty some carpet, which you mentioned there is none or little off. Relax and enjoy being the proud owner of a cat.

    • Kamsi on 12/03/2019 - 13:45
      +1

      Cough Bullshit. It only those who poperly look after the cat , chances are there are some who doesn't care.

    • Milk tea on 12/03/2019 - 19:04
      +1

      As I said, they scratch walls, furniture, doors etc even when there is a scratching post. The place also usually has a smell to it when there are pets and sometimes they will have accidents too no matter what. If they pee on the carpet you would have to replace it. If they scratch things you will also have to replace it which could end up costing a lot

      • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 15:18

        The place is very open, big balcony doors and multiple windows, there really is no cat smell. I have a super sensitive nose so it's something I'm very cognisant about. While the cat could pee on the carpet I could also drop a beer on there. Regardless, any damage caused is damage I will obviously have to fix.

        • Milk tea on 14/03/2019 - 12:46

          As long as the owner is fine with having pets then you're fine.

  • Austaurean on 12/03/2019 - 08:50
    +2

    while you may well be in breach of the strata house rules and the agreement you signed
    its all about how you keep the unit.. keep the place in the same or better condition than when you moved in, they may not mind.
    Keep the litter tray clean and fresh, don't let it become a stinky, uncleaned, spilt mess. Ensure your kitten meets your states regulations with desexing, micro chipping etc.

    I have had terrible experiences with some people that make a pigsty out of a unit, I find it ridiculous how disgusting some people are and in less than 12 months.
    The cost in cleaning up and the time it takes to fix the issues that some people make can be and is ridiculous.
    I had to wash walls, repaint some walls, clean the oven which was new when they moved in, the oven was also damaged, the top was essentially black and crusty from use and nil cleaning, fat dripping all down the sides and all over the wall behind.
    So now the oven after being cleaned by the real estates cleaners was marked from the scrubbing, looked like a 20 year old oven..
    Poking holes in the flyscreens to flick cigarettes out of the windows, burns in carpet etc. Toilet bowls that were white, but became crusty and stained. And again this was all in less than 12 months.

    If I had a neat and tidy clean living person who also had a cat, I would probably just accept it even, if I wasn't that happy about it, as having people who actually care about their home and someone else's property is worth the risk.
    Remember some kittens/cats like to climb up curtains, flyscreens etc, and they will damage items if they do it.

  • field1985 on 12/03/2019 - 09:38

    "Will they flip out and demand we get rid of it?"

    No. They will they flip out and get rid of YOU.

    • Other on 12/03/2019 - 18:04

      It DEPENDS….

      So No.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 15:19

      If only it was that easy

  • Flying Ace on 12/03/2019 - 10:13
    -4

    OP asked permission twice and never heard back. They have a kitten that is well taken care of, isn’t stinking up the place or leaving a mess. Compared to some tenants that the landlord could have, I would suggest that the OP sounds perfectly responsible.

    • Milk tea on 12/03/2019 - 19:01
      +1

      No. As much as I love the idea of him adopting a cat, when I'm a landlord I still wouldn't want the tenant sneaking a pet around when the contract has stipulated no pets.

  • pformag on 12/03/2019 - 10:41

    You might pay for it when you moved out. Landlord will demand professional cleaning to get rid of Cat smell. They may also demand you replace all the carpets etc.

    • meowsers on 12/03/2019 - 11:44
      +3

      They cannot demand you replace ALL the carpets. This would never hold up in a tribunal. Stop spreading misinformation.

      • pformag on 12/03/2019 - 14:39
        +3

        Depends if the cat pees everywhere, and you cannot get the smell out. It is very plausible that the landlord we get new carpets.

    • Miss B on 13/03/2019 - 00:06

      I'm sure OP is happy to replace all of the carpet.

    • Imhereforcomments on 13/03/2019 - 11:30
      +2

      Ummm Pretty sure OP has stated that it is not carpeted floor………

  • Stimps on 12/03/2019 - 10:46

    Are you in Sydney? If you are rents are dropping and the vacancy rate is increasing. If they have an issue tell them you will find a better place elsewhere for less and they can go through the risk of getting a new tenant. I’d follow up with saying you also want a 10 dollar per week decrease in rent, and a bottle of Moet.

    • Other on 12/03/2019 - 18:10

      and a bottle of Moet.

      And a diamond collar for the cat.

      hashtagballer

  • try2bhelpful on 12/03/2019 - 10:51
    +3

    My view is enjoy your kitten but be prepared to pay for the place to be professionally cleaned when you move out. Keep your place well aired, make sure the house is “cat” proofed, ( like you would for children). Get a litter setup that minimises smell, keep flea treatment up, give it lots of toys and scratching posts. It has been a while since I rented but I never had a landlord that objected to our cats. Personally, if you don’t have a lease, I would be looking around for a place where they welcome the pet and normalise the process. The fact they didn’t get back to you on this, despite repeated requests, shows a lack of respect. Cats do a lot less damage to a property than children and, if managed properly, the effect of the cat is minimal. Rental agencies have turned pet ownership into the boogie man; which is completely illogical for the majority of pet owners. Most owners would be more than happy to pay an additional bond to cover any issues that might occur. Victoria is taking a lead on this, good for us.

  • sbot on 12/03/2019 - 11:01

    I would apply formally for a cat and if that goes well, have the cat openly. If it does not go well, take the cat to a friends and do a thorough clean on inspection days, and get a carpet clean/flea treatment when your lease eventually ends.

    I can't judge your landlord's reaction, the safest thing you can do is to properly file a request. If you have a body corp they probably have a formal pet application form, ask for a copy of that and send it back.

  • happirt on 12/03/2019 - 14:55

    hide it

    • Other on 12/03/2019 - 18:11
      +2

      Just put a piece of furniture on top of it - like a fridge or dishwasher.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 12/03/2019 - 15:56
    +2

    I'm sure there reaction will be catastrophic!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/03/2019 - 17:28
    +2

    This is what the regulations say:

    cl 5. Cats.

    5.1 If a tenant takes in a cat, the landlord is entitled to send in a dog.

    5.2 The only good cat is a flat cat.

  • brendanm on 12/03/2019 - 17:43
    +1

    Until we see it, the agent is both flipping out, and not flipping out.

  • ssyl9 on 12/03/2019 - 17:54
    +2

    Well here is some real advice OP since I have both been in the owner and the renter of this situation before. However with this solution you will need to be willing to move if the owner flips

    Firstly, Contact the real estate agent (or the "land lord" you refer to who is not really the land lord as the land lord is the owner of property) and tell them the following

    Tell them that you will be adopting a cat in the very near future and make it sound like you have no other choice (say something like adopting the cat from a relative passed/moved away, or something like that, casually mention too if you don't adopt it, it will be put down and you cant let that happen).

    Ask them to urgently notify the owners of the house. Do not forget to mention there are no clauses against having a pet in the house and you will be happy to pay for extra cleaning or repairing if they are caused by the cat.

    This way you can release yourself from the responsibility to contact the owner as you did everything you could. (keep copy of email)

    After that there are only 1 of 4 outcomes

    1. Agent told owner and owner is ok with it

    2. Agent told owner and owner flips out

    3. Agent didn't tell owner and owner flips out in inspection

    4. Agent didn't tell owner and owner questioned about the cat (didn't flip out) during inspection

    If it is case 1 then all is good

    If 2, then kindly reminder the owner no such clause in the agreement says no pets and if it is really not allowed ask them to allow you to move with your full bond back as the owner is the one breaking the contract.

    If 3, calm the owner down, pull out evidence you tried to reach out.. (emails) and proceed give 2nd option

    if 4, pull out evidence you tried to reach out.. (emails) and ask if the cat is allowed to stay, try negotiate a common ground (willing to pay for extra cleaning or repairing if they are caused by the cat etc) or go option 2 if owner disallows the cat

    Hope this helps

    • Other on 12/03/2019 - 18:12

      How about they view their tenancy agreement first?

      And then thats BEFORE the tribunal…. where they can say "We asked twice and they said a dog is ok!"

      • Milk tea on 12/03/2019 - 22:41
        +2

        If they viewed their agreement first and bothered to actually call more than twice on a separate day and send them an email since some of these real Estate places don't often get back to people, then they wouldn't need to go on ozbargain and try to get people to side with them.

      • ssyl9 on 13/03/2019 - 13:31

        I vaguely remembered in Op's comment somewhere saying that their tenancy agreement didn't mention anything about pets

  • mousie on 12/03/2019 - 21:19

    I wouldn't worry too much about it. Get a copy of the original condition report and use that as a reference for future inspections. Tenants who don't have rental arrears are great tenants and who don't damage the property. I have had two cats in rental properties for 12 years and now an owner occupier in NSW.

  • dufflover on 13/03/2019 - 09:58

    OP sounds overly entitled. Not from the original post text specifically but finding quotes, documents, legal stuff to justify it is doing exactly that. Heck I'm surprised HighAndDry has to spell out no response = no permission given.

    My bet is they will be "ok" with it if they are generally nice folks, but be prepared for rent increases and/or worst case no lease renewal so that they have extra funds handy for any "unexpected expenses" from the pet.

    The complex I'm staying at has bodycorp rules of no pets, but some of them everyone knows has a cat or a dog … particularly when you see the cat sitting up against the window lol

  • ESEMCE on 13/03/2019 - 10:40
    +7

    As a former landlord, who found out my tenant had a cat (in a "no pets" rental agreement) exactly this way, there are 2 factors here, both negative;
    1) You're lying to me - you agreed on no pets and yet, you now have a pet AND I'm finding out not because you asked/told me, but by inspection.
    2) No matter how well you clean the place when you leave there will be cat hair somewhere which could make it harder for me to re-rent.

    Your resolution options are to
    1) notify your landlord immediately that you have a cat
    2) be prepared to be evicted as a result

    • ssyl9 on 13/03/2019 - 13:59
      +1

      However this situation is vastly different as there is no "no pets" in rental agreement confirmed by real estate agent

    • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 15:24

      GIven the state of the house when we moved in (previous tenants did a pretty poor clean, plenty of marks on the walls, floorboards were very sticky) I highly doubt they're going to find cat hairs on the floor that they would be up in arms about

  • AlanHB on 13/03/2019 - 17:17
    +2

    Hi dude

    Don't really mind which path you take, but if you do get told that you cannot keep the kitten in the house, could you please move out of the house and move to a place where you can have it.

    It makes me really mad when you see in gumtree "can't keep kitten because not allowed in house". It's a pretty selfish move and not fair to the cat.

    Cheers
    Alan

    • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 22:16

      I am a bit too in love with the cat to give her to some random on gumtree, don't worry

  • Duram on 13/03/2019 - 17:19
    -1

    I've got an idea and hear me out right. You can buy your own place and do whatever you want in it. Until then stop.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 13/03/2019 - 22:15
    +1

    You probably shouldnt but in all honestly land lord have ZERO power if you do it and just make sure you hide the cat when they get the 24-hr notice for inspection you will be fine

    • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2019 - 22:19

      Yeah this is what I went with. Inspection is all over. People act like they are gonna examine the floor for cat hairs - from what I've understood previously, evicting a tenant is a huge pain in the ass for agents and landlords, and not something they are going to really want to do a short time into a 12 month lease. I'm certain I could have had a cat at my last apartment and it would have made zero difference to the overall state of the house, especially after an end of lease clean.

      I know ozbargainers were generally squares but I didn't know this square.

      • ozhunter on 13/03/2019 - 22:34
        +1

        It's mostly about what you should/shouldn't do. If your contract doesn't allow pets, then you shouldn't have pets unless you get permission. If you do get one anyway, then you would have to face the possible consequences.

        evicting a tenant is a huge pain in the ass for agents and landlords

        Basically this, I think they rather keep a tenant with a pet than getting a new tenant.

        And if anyone was wondering, here she is in all her glory https://imgur.com/a/qDdqQgu

        Very nice

      • Miss B on 13/03/2019 - 23:22

        I told my last real estate in my application that my dog was an inside dog. The lease said outside only. I ignored it. I did keep her outside for inspections, but I will here where I have written permission to have her inside too. The only time it was an issue was about 2 weeks before moving out I got a text from the real estate asking to keep my dog outside when they were showing the property. I would have, but their system wasn't working so I didn't get notified that they were coming.

        I still got the full bond back and nothing else was said. She doesn't damage anything except sheer curtains, because they get in the way when she's trying to look out the windows. I just got her her own curtains and took down the ones that came with the house and will put them back up when we move out.

        If you haven't already I'd get permission to have the cat still, then you don't have to worry about all of this next time. If they say no you can still hide the cat until you move.

  • SickMyDuck on 14/03/2019 - 13:39
    +3

    We have a cat at our apartment. While the contract states that we have to ask for landlord consent for having a pet, we never do so. I know it is wrong and there is risk of being evicted from property. But having a pet brings us joy and happiness, so we risk it anyway.

    We always keep the property clean; vacuum regularly, clean litter box on a daily basis, etc. Although she made a mess fews time; poop outside and vomit, other than that, the property is very clean. Been through 3 inspections, I ask my partner to bring our cat to the garden not far from aptment, while I waited for inspection, hide all cat stuff, litter box, food, and clean the apartment. So far never been caught or raise any suspicious from agent. No complain about cleanliness too.

    So my verdict is that as long as you keep the property clean and tidy, pet should not be any issue. Landlord concerns is always the condition of property and some people are so irresponsible that their pets would make a mess.

    If I am a landlord myself, I would be okay with pet as long as they dont irritate neighbours, staining the walls, tearing the carpet or create poop art on the property.

  • Leeroy Jenkins on 14/03/2019 - 21:12
    +1

    Sorry if i sound rude, but why post here? We aren't your landlord. Should have just given the agent or the landlord a call to find out, before or after getting the cat. It's always better to clarify it earlier than letting them find out later.

  • H E B on 14/03/2019 - 21:40

    I think the posts have deviated some what. I read the question as what would YOU do as the landlord.

    What 'I' would do is:
    consider signing an amended tenancy agreement if possible to cover the pet, any potential damages, greater cleaning requirements upon exit and maybe increased bond for the above…

    Given the pet is already in there I wouldn't have the heart to throw it out, especially as no major damage yet and it's purely an indoor cat? Although did OP say the cat was in the garden during inspection???

    • [Deactivated] on 15/03/2019 - 17:32

      In the garden with me, with a leash, during the inspection

  • Ceilingcat on 15/03/2019 - 18:23
    +1

    can i have the cat?

  • Eeples on 22/03/2019 - 18:26

    OP has edited his OP to indicate there is no ‘no pets’ clause in the contract.

    In NSW this does seem to mean the OP does not need to gain explicit permission to have a pet.

    It seems to me the OP should stop asking permission….. and if the landlord attempts to kicks him out for having a pet…. then the OP would be in a strong position.

    https://files.tenants.org.au/factsheets/Tenants-guide-pets.p…

    I think you are fine OP.

  • ozbargainer888 on 25/03/2019 - 18:14
    +1

    My neighbor has a dog without having asked for consent and they just leave with the dog during inspection.
    Dog doesnt bark, is well trained and they keep the place clean so I'm not really sure why it would be a big deal.
    You get an inspection when you move out anyway and if there's damages you pay - it actually isnt relevant how damage came about (you, kids, animals, etc) but that there is damage.

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