Benefits of Adding a Subwoofer for Classical/Acoustic/Instrumental Music (More than You Think) + Small Powered Subwoofer List

thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 17:51
Last edited 27/03/2019 - 21:00 by 1 other user

I came across a YouTube video
where they are talking about the effects of a adding subwoofer. And found the part from 7:00 - 9:40 quite interesting.
I have never owned a subwoofer, and particularly for listening to music I thought I didn’t really need one when you have speakers that extend low enough.

After recently listening to some recordings of Grand Piano, Violin/Orchestral, Acoustic Guitar.
I did think that there was some depth or definition missing from the instruments.

I am now considering a subwoofer to pair with my bookshelf speakers for a small room, particularly looking for a powered 8-inch subwoofer with tight accurate low-frequency reproduction, and low-frequency cross-over control. (I am looking at studio monitor subwoofers but they all seem quite expensive for what they are.)
I am going for an 8-inch being as I prefer the bass to be accurate rather than loud & the room size is on the smaller side (bedroom).

I read an article on the SVS website about the challenges of starting & stopping a woofer with a larger diameter (SVS have 18 inch woofer models which presented them with an engineering challenge. They say smaller 10, 12, 13 inch woofers these days have been considered as the standard for sound accuracy).

If you own any of these Powered subwoofer models- an honest opinion of your experience with it would be appreciated.

List in no particular order, with description of positive/negative attributes. All have advanced controls, ported, down-firing driver.
LIST UPDATED: Please ignore the list in the comments.

https://www.pioneeraudio.com.au/products/s-52w-subwoofer
Pioneer S-52W - 8-inch driver - Down ported
- an off branch of solid Onkyo company, can be bought at a discount. Frequency response (24-1000hz). Seems discontinued.

https://www.selby.com.au/electronics/speakers/subwoofer/sherwood-8-inch-active-subwoofer-gloss-black-sub8bk.html wrong link
Sherwood SW10 - 10-inch driver - Down ported
- Solid reviews, can be bought for cheap. Amp slightly down on power. Some reports of issues of auto-on/off detection at low volume from input. Cannot find detailed specs, seems discontinued.
Too large enclosure, too large a driver, too old. Considered an all round sub, not loud but not accurate.

https://www.selby.com.au/electronics/speakers/subwoofer/q-acoustics-3070s-home-theatre-subwoofer-american-walnut-140w-rms.html
https://www.rio.com.au/product/q-acoustics-3070s-subwoofer-dual-drivers/
Q Acoustics 3070S - two front firing 6.5-inch drivers - Rear ported
- Successful brand. Ported but reportedly tight/accurate bass, discounted price, smaller drivers but powerful amp (140w rms x 1). Interesting design but seems tuned for punch and I am interested in fidelity/accuracy. Although RIO says it can accurately reproduce the twang of a double-bass (I trust RIO’s description). same description on other sites, seems like company description.
No official frequency response specs (even on official website) only states crossover frequency 50-150hz (I’m sure it can reach lower than that in response).
Quality control issues -found a thread with many customers reporting crackling humming when on, unhealthy sounds when auto-on/off. People going through replacements/bad batches. (Also reports of people having to adjust the gain on the sub often depending on the genre of music they listen to, possible bumpy frequency response.)

https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/emotiva-basx-s8-8-active-s…
Emotiva Basx S8 - 8-inch driver - Rear ported
Great reviews, great professional brand, decent price, solid design^ and build. ^Issues of port noise at high volume (forums say can be solved with foam port plug), some having issues with auto-on/off detection at low volume from input.

https://www.focal.com/sites/www.focal.fr/files/shared/catalog/document/cub3-jb-specification-sheet2.pdf
Focal Cub3 - 8-inch driver - front ported
- Brand reputation for clean accurate sound (speakers), unique port design, solid build, soft texture finish (could be bad for dust IDK), does not reach as low as Pioneer. Premium cost. FIXED CROSSOVER @120hz (this is a deal breaker, just found this out the knob on the back is for volume). This seems to be built to be paired with their Focal series. No crossover control, price.

And the Klipsch R-8SW - 8-inch driver - Down ported - Out of stock everywhere (have to call up to find stock).
- Solid reference-grade subwoofer, part of the Klipsch group (Energy, Mirage, Klipsch and Jamo) which acquired Energy Speakers a solid speaker development company. Who ever got this on sale for $360 you got your weight in money’s worth IMO. Downsides? Outright volume/power, but then you would be going for an 12+ inch driver.

-

-

And here are a few options for those who are just reading & interested in more punch (most of you it seems) for listening to music.

https://www.deniswhitehomecinema.com.au/wharfedale-sw150-sub…
Wharfedale Diamond SW-150 10-inch - Down ported
Powerful 150w RMS. Well known Diamond series. Good price, Good value. Great performance according to ozbargain user. $499 Delivered.

https://www.kgelectronic.com.au/p/Electronics-and-Home-Enter…
Jamo J10 10-inch - Rear ported. Not worth the $1000 RRP IMO. But worth it at discount + code.
Same power of Wharfedale (150w RMS) Energy speaker’s solid design. User mentioned of issues with longevity.
Could be had here for $495.20 with PROGRAM20 code.

Electrical & Electronics Subwoofer

Comments

  • revheadgl on 01/07/2019 - 20:40

    My recommendation would be a Bowers & Wilkins ASW608. It's small, reasonably priced and gets good reviews. I don't own one but have listened to one and was impressed with its accuracy.

    Didn't buy it as I went for a bigger sub that suited my needs at the time.

    Might be worth you checking one out.

    • thebadmachine on 02/07/2019 - 23:38

      I have had my eye on the price of the ASW608. It is definitely an option if it dropped it price.
      I would take the KEF Kube8b over the B&W though as both are similar in price.
      The KEF Kube series has 3 built-in DSP modes to achieve some room correction.
      I am thinking of going dual subwoofer’s to go with my bookshelfs, in which case I need the options I am considering to drop in price quite dramatically (which may never happen in which case I will go without subwoofers).

  • revheadgl on 03/07/2019 - 10:48

    If you went with a B&W ASW610 you wouldn't need 2 subwoofers. There is one currently on Ebay for $799 from NAPF. They sometimes partake in the 20% off offers on Ebay, which is where I first saw it.

    At $639.20, I would have bought it myself if I had the money. An absolute bargain.

    Just my 2c, am yet to be convinced of the need for any DSP modes on a subwoofer. Set any sub up properly and it should blend into any system in any room.

    Whichever way you decide to go, as long as its half decent, you will benefit from adding a sub and it will add another dimension to your listening.

    • thebadmachine on 05/07/2019 - 19:42

      Yeah I’m going for dual subwoofers for more even coverage, there are other benefits other than just ‘more’ volume.
      From my research DSP correction apparently is most effective for low-frequencies so I think there is merit to having it just incase your room tends to create a boomy / bumpy response.
      Yes the open-box ASW610 with full 2 year warranty is available now for the price you mentioned with POLAR20 code.

  • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 13:14
    Merged from Benefits of adding a subwoofer (update) 9 months.

    A user asked:

    Did you end up finding and buying your subs after looking for 9 months?

    In the last few months I listened to a few subs in-store, only to find them slightly disappointing in terms of speed & musicality.
    As per the original post, I was looking for an accurate subwoofer with tight musical bass.
    When it came to listening to a Double-bass from the source, I found the bass becoming loose & smeared and I actually preferred the speed & accuracy of the bass with just the main-speakers playing.
    With the source being synthetic-music the subwoofer was more forgiving and it sounded ok.

    So after some more research I discovered one of the better designs for ‘tight’ bass with speed for stopping & starting were Servo-controlled / Isobaric-design / and multiple (2-4-6) smaller sized woofers in a single-enclosure.
    Subwoofers in these designs are less-common, and the entry-level are very expensive.

    Prices were too high so I decided to stick with simple single-woofer closed-box design, and after discovering REL subwoofers (specifically the REL T-zero) I did some more research and discovered these were probably the best closed-box-design option.
    Apparently everything from the driver-material, amplifier components, cross-over, are all optimised for quick response and minimal delay. Again though prices rarely drop more than 5% and I have been unable to make find a ‘bargain’ purchase. When looking at subwoofers to integrate seamlessly with bookshelf’s etc, REL seems to be the best.

    Up until recently I was looking at the KEF Kube 8b, a closed-box 8-inch design, with some built-in DSP modes for basic room-correction (corner / cabinet / open-area) which is currently $674.10 Delivered @ using code: BD2020.
    The KEF has been half-price in the past for KEF speaker owners (KEF official promo) so I feel $674.10 is still too much.
    Then I thought the DSP would add delay, so I was looking at the MK Sound V8 @ RIO Sound & Vision which was $699 Delivered previously, and was $711.55 during Xmas with 5% discount from the spinning wheel pop-up.
    Missed out as it is now back to $1199.
    MK Sound are a solid company with the details on their website promising, high quality cross-overs and proper cabinet bracing / design. The more I look at it the more it looks real good.

    So here I am still with a limited budget waiting for a great deal on the MK Sound V8.
    Knowing how this will go though most likely I will procrastinate and end-up looking at something else, or just simply dreaming about a Dynaudio subwoofer and continuing to listen to just the main-speakers.

    Notes: Just to be clear again, I am currently quite happy with my bookshelf sized main-speakers, it is only on certain recordings / tracks which I hear a lack of low-end, an example being a certain song with a kick-drum which sounds distant. When I have other tracks where the kick-drum simply sounds like it should. Also some tracks with just Piano / violin that could have a little more depth. While other tracks with the same instruments are just fine.
    Just wanted to confirm these things as per original post.

    • pformag on 03/01/2020 - 13:18

      Original post? What is your system at the moment.

    • PissLUR on 03/01/2020 - 13:18

      tldr?

    • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 13:19

      Hi mods could you please add the contents of this post (Above), to the comments of this post the comments are locked. thanks.

    • brendanm on 03/01/2020 - 13:38
      +1

      Build your own. Can get exactly what you want then.

      • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 14:45

        As stated in a previous comment, I did look at a few ‘kits’ but the cost was more than a manufactured product + the enclosure-size was too large.
        I would prefer to pay less for something which I can just take back to the store for refund / replacement if something goes wrong.

        Sourcing separate parts yourself also turned out quite costly, and so still I prefer going to the store for manufactured product.

        Thanks for the suggestion though.

        • brendanm on 03/01/2020 - 16:17

          You don't need a "kit". It's literally a wood box and a driver, a port if you wish. Play around with specs of different drivers in box design software and you'll find something that suits what you want. I built many boxes, sealed and ported, back in the day for car stereo stuff, can get them to do exactly what you want.

          A driver, wood and an amp would cost less than you are looking to spend.

          • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 16:25

            @brendanm: Maybe I was looking along the lines of tried & tested designs.
            During my brief previous research, they have competitions etc for DIY audio in their communities and these designs instruct you to use specific drivers & amplifiers.

            If I was happy with some sort of basic subwoofer I would think something put together with the cheapest parts would be more than adequate. I am looking for something with 'Hi-fidelity'.
            I understand especially someone who is experienced in DIY would be able to do very well by themselves, but having little DIY experience part of my concern is the result being something performing poorly after all the hard-work (I am aware DIY can be a learning process).
            I appreciate your suggestion, its just I have already decided to go with manufactured.
            Maybe one day I will have a go at making the Isobaric subwoofer (something similar to Dynaudio Sub6 with all its DSP adjustment features etc).

            • brendanm on 03/01/2020 - 16:40

              @thebadmachine: I am not talking about doing "something basic". But you obviously have no wish to learn about it, so carry on.

    • pformag on 03/01/2020 - 13:45

      Have you looked into Studio subwoofers? Might be a better way to go, for size etc.

      • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 14:44

        Regarding Dynaudio Studio subwoofers, even if I had the funds it simply makes little sense to spend twice to three times the cost of the main-speakers on a subwoofer.
        I listened to a few cheaper Studio subwoofers, but they carry a premium in price, and compared to the REL’s I think they simply lack the performance while costing equal or more.

    • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 15:04

      For those with big budgets, here are the suggestions I have from a few months of researching. (If you have a similar idea to this post / fitting similar requirements)

      • JL Audio : Dominion series (best power / musicality).
      • REL : T / Ti series (best musicality)
      • Dynaudio : Sub6 / 18S (if you are happy with better musicality over overall output) (also these models have been recalled for a component issue, so confirm with seller if it has been fixed by manufacturer)
      • exe on 03/01/2020 - 18:31

        I was super close to getting the Sub6, if lifestylestore had some promotion to take it closer to 3k I'd probably would have bought it. Kinda annoyed the 18S is the exact same sub but cheaper cause sub 6 made for audiophile.

        After doing some research I am pretty set on Rythmik Audio subs. There was a secondhand R15 recently let go for 600~ from Ballarat.

        For subs much of the impact is in the integration and even more so if you decide to multi-sub. The perception of fast bass with smaller woofers isn't technically correct. Its a combination of the Q factor of bass roll off vs the absorption of the room.

        My use case is similar, a bedroom system, however my room is heavily treated and my bookshelves extend down to 40hz. Maybe give room treatment a try? The last two bass traps I got fixed a massive 90hz room mode null.

        And data-bass.com is a excellent resource.

        • thebadmachine on 03/01/2020 - 19:08

          The perception of fast bass with smaller woofers isn't technically correct.

          Yes I learned that after researching. But if a number (4-6) smaller woofer’s are working much less harder to produce the same amount of low-frequency SPL as a single large woofer. Then I can understand how they are able to perform a bit better.

          Maybe give room treatment a try?

          I thought about doing just some minimalist treatment (just a large diffuser on the back wall) (found something suitable from Bunnings awhile ago & decided to pass on it).
          But I am less serious about getting that “perfect” sound, at the moment just was looking to have extended-bass that keeps up with the speed of the bookshelf’s.
          My whole idea is musicality over overall SPL / power. I play my music very quiet compared to most. And if I was getting a subwoofer I would probably use 3/10 of its power capability.

          Thanks for the information though.
          I actually intended just to give an update because one user asked, but also really to help others out who have similar interests / requirements / ideas about subwoofers.

          I am curious though, if you can provide any more details between the differences of Dynaudio 18S & Sub6 that would be appreciated (even though I will be getting neither) just for future reference or as information to others.

          • exe on 05/01/2020 - 05:47

            @thebadmachine: Software gated DSP profiles, namely Sub 6 comes with settings that matches with Dynaudio's consumer line of speakers whilst the 18S matches with their professional line. The sub 6 costs more.

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