Small-Mid Sized SUVs Looking to Start a Family Suggestions

Trying2SaveABuck on 22/05/2019 - 13:55
Last edited 22/05/2019 - 13:56

Hi guys,

Looking for some community input wife is looking for a small –mid sized SUV something that is easy to drive and easy to put a baby in and out. She doesn’t want anything too big but does know she wants a SU.

Safety is also important – however I think most SUVs cars have a decent safety ratings… Also has to be 4 doors
Looking to buy ex-demo ideally but if I have to go new then that’s life, not wanting to spend too much $$ (ideally under 35k)…

Any experiences with cars would be listened too weather they be good or bad? This could also include serving costs, warranty issues, insurance costs etc.

Also if you are in Victoria and have any insight into dealership customer service to suggest id like to hear it. I got my car from Caroline Springs Honda wasn’t happy with them and wouldn’t ever go back there… generally you dont know what they are like till after you have brought the car

Thanks in advanced

Automotive Car SUV

Comments

  • GG57 on 22/05/2019 - 14:05
    +1

    Plenty of suggestions in this forum post (although it was for Qld)
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/453000

  • Euphemistic on 22/05/2019 - 14:20
    +41

    Looking to start a family? I suggest romantic dinner with wine to start. Worry about the car later.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 22/05/2019 - 14:43
      +2

      hahahaha thanks

    • Vote for Pedro on 23/05/2019 - 21:11

      Maybe a car big enough to… ;-)

      • geoffs87 on 24/05/2019 - 11:08

        Yeah i scored my wife with a 1992 Nissan Pulsar.

        in 2014…

        Got the mid size SUV later :)

        FWIW i've got a BMW X1 now, bit of an upgrade - very cool car!

        • bdl on 25/05/2019 - 19:24
          +1

          Shoulda gotta X5! For the invest

  • Alan Laz on 22/05/2019 - 14:38

    Pickles, Manheim - they have auctions each week, lots of late model low mileage ex-lease or ex-Gov vehicles

    Don't get hung up about brands - (the real cheap and nasties don't get into fleets)

    Look for one with manufacturers warranty still current

    Subaru or Rav4s in abundance - both rugged and long lived

    Speaking from experience. Always great cars.

    EDIT Not sure about safety aspect of SUVs, sedans are more stable, SUVs usually more prone to rollovers (although we run a few SUVs, Jeep, Subaru etc at home)

    • whooah1979 on 22/05/2019 - 19:34

      Look for one with manufacturers warranty still current

      Auction vehicles doesn't have statutory guarantees while ex-demo or pre-owned from a dealer does.

      • [Deactivated] on 27/05/2019 - 10:39

        They are talking about the manufacturers warranty, not a warranty from the auction house. For example 7 year KIA warranty or similar.

    • funnysht on 24/05/2019 - 10:06

      Don't go to Mannheim auctions bought 2 cars from them both had damage cost few grand to fix. The cars which are at the front but it now not auction are better. Issue is you cant test drive them. The reason why sellers sell auction is usually because of engine issues etc.

      • TheNachoMan1 on 25/05/2019 - 18:53

        I would also recommend against Manheim. Pickles have always been good for me.

  • vin23 on 22/05/2019 - 14:39
    +7

    Definitely have a look at the new RAV 4 - the safety features that come standard are great

    Carsales Review

    • Haha Hihi Hoho on 25/05/2019 - 10:28

      i was going to suggest CRV as i got my VTIL for 34k, but damn that new RAV4 have really good interior. looks a bit like outlander

  • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 14:42
    +8

    Mate, you don't need an SUV to start a family. A little bit of Marin Gaye and any old car will do.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 22/05/2019 - 14:44
      +9

      It has to at least have a backseat! hehehe

    • poboy on 22/05/2019 - 17:39

      You want him to marry a gay?

      • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 18:18

        Eh, that's his/her business although… that'll make the baby makin a little more confusing.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 14:45
    +9

    Camry with jacked up suspension and semi off road tyres.

    • Hybroid on 22/05/2019 - 16:33
      +5

      Isn't that literally the RAV4? Same engines and all?

  • altomic on 22/05/2019 - 15:57
    +3

    OP, are you planning on having a large family or or just 1 or 2 kids?

    We bought a mazda 3 sedan just before our first child was born. it was good. but then 18 months later we had our second. the curve of the back doors became a hussle for getting the kids in and out of the car. we changed over to a hyundai tuscon and that was so much easier- the vehicle was higher, the doors "squarer" so easier to access kids. also good boot for pram.

    even with 3 kids it was a fine car. we could just fit 3 car seats in.

    anyway, after 6 years we upgraded to a 7 seater outlander. which is great if we have to transport other kids with us.

    my wife was keen on a new outlander. I found an ex demo with 14,000kms on the clock. it was still the most current model. it was $13,000 cheaper than the new price.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/05/2019 - 15:47
      +2

      This is a hard question i'd like 3 but ill see how i go after 1 lol

    • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 22:20

      +1 for the tucson. My wife had one up until recently and she loved it. She had to upgrade to a 7-seater after our last one was born.

  • pegaxs on 22/05/2019 - 16:09
    +4

    *cut and pastes usual list of vehicles in this price range*

    • Switchblade88 on 22/05/2019 - 16:19
      +1

      Looks like you didn't press your Ctrl-V properly, but your Ctrl-I worked well…

  • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 16:11

    VW OR AUDI

    • pegaxs on 22/05/2019 - 16:28
      +3

      Nice… nice… I was going to suggest Mahindra or Haval…

      • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 16:29

        LDV

        • pegaxs on 22/05/2019 - 16:32
          -1

          No love for Foton??

    • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 16:35

      Maserati Levante might be the go

      • ccrap on 24/05/2019 - 09:40

        Bentley Bentayga!

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 22/05/2019 - 16:35

    Alternative - Commodore Wagon.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 17:11
      +23

      Children conceived/raised in a Commodore Wagon are 74% more likely to have a recurring mullet/rat tail.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/05/2019 - 07:41
        +9

        Small mid sized SUV's with a baby on board sticker are 81% more likely to cut you off without indicating.

  • twww on 22/05/2019 - 16:59
    +4

    Wagon!

    Find it funny to watch the mid sized SUV owners struggling to jam the stroller into the back.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 17:03
    +2

    Get the top model Subaru XV (2.0s? I think). Demo should be just about under $35k. A good amount of car for the money.

    Subarus have good reliability, it's a pretty simple drivetrain (2.0l flat four that's been around for a couple years now, CVT).

    Interior quality on the top trim is much closer to a luxury car than a cheap car.

    Lots and lots of safety features, plus AWD if you ever do snow/dirt road trips, and of course safer in wet weather.

    At the end of the day though, it's got the footprint of a hatchback (it's a lifted Impreza basically), and only slightly worse fuel economy.

    If I was in your boat, I'd be getting an XV.

    • dcuksuop on 22/05/2019 - 17:17
      +1

      I second this.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 18:53

      I agree but look at fuel economy and service intervals.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 20:54
        +1

        Yep, fuel economy of 7L/100km is not as good as the fwd SUVs, and you will pay a little more for servicing.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 21:44
      +2

      If you think the Subaru flat four is only a couple of years old, I’ve got some news for you. It’s probably older than you are. Hopelessly outclassed. And the gearbox is junk, it’s a bad cvt which allows for zero slip. Subarus used to be decent off-road, now they can’t even traverse a wet track, because the cvt cuts power to the wheels to protect itself instead of allowing any slip (in the transmission). A very poor design.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 21:59

        Sorry, but I completely disagree with you there.

        The new gen of 2.0L flat four Subaru are using (since the 2016 Impreza I believe) is 80% new. It doesn't really matter if some parts are carried over.

        It's absolutely not hopelessly outclassed, it's perfectly adequate. Have you driven one? I have.

        The CVT works just fine. This is not an offroad machine. It is a city car that might double as your road trip/snow trip vehicle, it's never meant for going extremely bush.

        'A very poor design'… come on. Absolute hyperbole.

        • h0mbre on 25/05/2019 - 09:07

          I'd say slight hyperbole but hes not wrong.
          Its not just Subaru's CVT's either, all CVT's are garbage in my opinion.
          Subaru wagons used to be awesome because they could handle light off road duties when required but with these CVTs they lose that ability.
          I'd even take the 5EAT or 4EAT over the CVT any day of the week.
          I'd buy a new Forester for the missus in a heartbeat if they had a decent modern auto tranny.

          • Ash SA on 25/05/2019 - 14:51

            @h0mbre: I have CVT and keep on using CVTs, but yes you guys are right. CVTs are pretty poor in such terms

          • [Deactivated] on 25/05/2019 - 22:25

            @h0mbre: You can dislike them all they want, but they do the job just fine. OP is not looking to take their future 'small SUV' off roading.

            Have you driven an XV with a CVT? It's absolutely fine. It's great for driving around town, point and shoot. The average person doesn't care whether they have a 4spd auto, 5spd auto, 10spd auto, or a CVT. They probably don't even know.

            Would I buy one with a CVT? Maybe, but it would definitely be lower in my preferences for that reason. And I'm passionate about cars and driving. This car is not going to be all that engaging regardless.

    • isthisreallife22 on 24/05/2019 - 01:20

      3rd this

    • Cunning Linguist on 24/05/2019 - 10:43
      +1

      4th this

      We have a little one and the XV has been sensational - looking at number 2 soon and expect to keep the XV. The height is great for getting bub in and out and feels solid and safe on the road and wet weather. The XVs are very well balanced so even though you have decent height there is no roll and hugs the road tightly. As already mentioned it's not built for extreme off roading but it handles itself great when you do find yourself on a dirt track or the beach. Compact enough that it good around the city and easy to park - the wife loves driving it and she hates big cars.

      Would recommend a roof rack if you are planning any on going on any family trips as the boot space is not huge. It's more than enough to put a pram in but that + luggage + esky etc is a tight fit. We were fine without a roofrack with 1 child but if a second comes along and another car seat needs to be installed along we will definitely be getting a roof rack.

  • spackbace on 22/05/2019 - 17:05
    +4

    cough RAV4 cough

    • CVonC on 24/05/2019 - 00:08
      +1

      SB, what are your biased and unbiased thoughts on the CH-R? :)

  • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 17:19
    +1

    If you’re getting an SUV the weather doesn’t really matter, provided it’s AWD.

    • chumlee on 22/05/2019 - 17:23
      +5

      AWD in Australian weather isn't worth the extra spend

        • chumlee on 22/05/2019 - 19:38

          Why?

          • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 20:53
            -6

            @chumlee: Because the dynamics of a car designed to be awd and then reduced to 2wd are all messed up. You end up with terrible understeer, torque steer, a high Cg, very poor traction and unpredictable handling on the limit, especially in emergency situations when you need it most. A high Cg with all the weight in the nose, plus all the power and steering going through the front wheels just makes a car that is passively unsafe. Only morons who know nothing about cars buy them.

            • chumlee on 22/05/2019 - 21:14
              +2

              @[Deactivated]: Most SUV's are AWD on demand so for most Australian SUV drivers they would be driving 2WD and probably don't even know it

              • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 21:37
                -3

                @chumlee: Yeah sure, most shit SUVs are fwd bias awd in demand. But when you really need it, when you’ve lost traction, the awd makes the difference between crashing and not.

            • brendanm on 22/05/2019 - 22:04

              @[Deactivated]: Lol

              • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2019 - 22:50

                @brendanm: See, a fwd SUV buyer in the wild. Appears to fit all the criteria.

                • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 06:26
                  +4

                  @[Deactivated]: Haha I don't have a fwd SUV. It's simply that you are so extreme. So many fwd SUVs on the road, so few accidents caused by them. People aren't tracking them, they are using them to take the kids to school and go to the shops.

        • Danstar on 23/05/2019 - 08:36

          ^ Exactly this

          I have a FWD Sports sized SUV, and have family/friends with AWD where I've driven their car and notice no difference whats so ever….and I think you're just exaggerating. Most people don't take their SUVs off road.

          Did you get stooged into forking out extra for an AWD model ?

          • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 08:39

            @Danstar: Re read what I said.

            • Danstar on 23/05/2019 - 08:57
              +2

              @[Deactivated]: I did. "The dynamics of the car blah blah blah…" is what you're referring to ?

              An SUV is basically a larger Sedan these days.

              • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 11:02
                -3

                @Danstar: Then you don’t understand it. It’s basic concepts.

                • Danstar on 23/05/2019 - 11:06

                  @[Deactivated]: I think experience is greater than basic concepts.

                  Everyone person I know who has an SUV, which I'd say is about 30 people. 1 of them takes it off road.

                  If AWD is so much better and necessary all cars (SUV, Sedans, etc.) would be AWD.

                  For bitumen driving, FWD or RWD is more then enough.

            • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 10:06
              +2

              @[Deactivated]: You can get an original VW Beetle and take corners at the posted speed limits, I think any modern car will be fine champ.

              Noone is tracking their fwd dualis, so you don't have to worry.

              • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 11:03
                -4

                @brendanm: You’re showing a complete lack of understanding of basic car dynamics. Also, noone- not a word.

                • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 13:14
                  +5

                  @[Deactivated]: You sound like you've been playing too much Forza. In normal driving, with neutral throttle through corners, there is no difference between fwd, AWD, rwd or six wheel drive. It only makes a difference when you are trying to apply engine force, whether acceleration or deceleration, at the same time as turning.

                  As OP just wants a family bus, and likely isn't going to be applying full throttle at the apex of a corner in the wet, I'm sure he will be fine. As will the other million people worldwide with little SUVs.

                  I've driven an absolute shitload of different cars, and have owned probably 40 different ones personally, none have had an issue in standard road driving situations. The only one that came close was a Suzuki Sierra with an 8 inch lift and mud tyres, that was a bit iffy at times.

                  Really scraping the bottle of the barrel at picking on a missing space ;)

                  I also like how you've never mentioned what car you drive, even though I've asked you before, and you are always the first one to bag out everyone's choice of car.

                  • Danstar on 23/05/2019 - 13:17
                    +1

                    @brendanm: If I was a betting man (which I am) he drives an AWD car :D :D

                  • whooah1979 on 23/05/2019 - 13:36
                    +1

                    @brendanm: VW or Audi.

                  • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 13:56

                    @brendanm: You literally just have to read my first post in its entirety to understand why fwd SUVs are rubbish. It’s not the 99% of the time that’s the issue, it’s the 1%.

                    • Danstar on 23/05/2019 - 14:05

                      @[Deactivated]: About the weather?

                      I can guarantee you 99.9% of people wouldn't even know or noticed if they were driving a FWD or an AWD car, let alone having any advantage of having an AWD.

                      • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 14:41

                        @Danstar: Just read it. It’s perfect English and perfectly clear. The weather post was a joke in response to the OP

                    • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 16:29
                      +1

                      @[Deactivated]: You literally just have to read my last post to know that your reasoning is wrong. Please tell me, what is the 1% scenario where op will benefit from AWD over fwd?

                      Having to swerve to avoid something? Won't make a difference.

                      Taking a corner too fast in the wet? Won't make a difference.

                      • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 16:58
                        -2

                        @brendanm: It will 100% make a difference in both those situations. As I stated, it’s also the passive safety afforded by awd. You won’t swerve in the awd, because the system will prevent loss of traction. It won’t be plagued by as much understeer, it will have a better weight and power distribution, for more predictable handling. Fwd SUVs are dynamic disasters over the limit.

                        • Danstar on 23/05/2019 - 17:14

                          @[Deactivated]: What limit ?

                          Literally the differences in feeling would be < 1% in standard city/suburb driving

                          • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 17:46

                            @Danstar: Jesus Christ,read the thread.

                        • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 17:22
                          +1

                          @[Deactivated]: What? AWD stops someone pulling out in front of you? You need to understand that awd only works if power is being applied. It doesn't magically make it steer better, or give more grip, in normal situations.

                          https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-…

                          https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-…

                          https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3091/the-myth-of-the-…

                          There are plenty more, but the summary is as I've been trying to explain to you, AWD gives more traction when accelerating, it does not give more grip, as you are trying to claim. Have a bit of a research and inform yourself before making incorrect claims. Even just look up the laws of physics, and you will see why what you are saying is patently false.

                          • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 17:43

                            @brendanm: I never claimed it changes grip level at all. It does improve traction.

                            • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 18:43
                              +1

                              @[Deactivated]: You don't need traction in corners driving like a normal person, how can you not understand this.

                              Please explain how more traction will aid you in taking a corner in the wet as you stated above.

                              • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 19:51
                                -1

                                @brendanm: How can you not understand that I’m not talking about normal circumstances, as I’ve stated in at least 10 posts. I’m talking about exceptional circumstances, which happen. It’s like I’m talking to someone who is both completely illiterate, but can also write reasonably coherent posts.

                                And let’s get real, any fwd car with any power will spin it’s wheels off the lights in the wet and around a corner if you apply throttle.

                                • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 20:15
                                  +1

                                  @[Deactivated]: So what is this special circumstance? At what point would someone need to accelerate while negotiating a corner? Why did you claim that it would help with cornering in the wet, or a sudden swerve, when this is completely false, and you now admit that?

                                  The problem isn't my being illiterate, it is that you can't understand the difference between grip and traction.

                                  Traction control is there for at reason, but to be honest I don't see people spinning tyres everyone when it's wet, and there are a lot for fwd cars about. He'll, my Passat has more torque than most front drivers and is fine in the wet.

                                  Why are you applying throttle in a corner?

                                  • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 20:39
                                    -1

                                    @brendanm: No, I've made it very clear that I understand the difference between grip and traction. The problem is that you are not reading what I type. I'm not going to continue arguing with you until you read the posts you are responding to. I'm not going to post the same thing over and over because you have some kind of comprehension problem. This argument is just so stupid, all your questions and points have been answered, but you're still just repeating yourself again and again. I can't make it any clearer.

                                    • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 20:52
                                      +1

                                      @[Deactivated]: You can make it clearer, give me an example of a situation that a normal person would encounter where AWD provides a benefit over fwd.

                                      • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 20:53
                                        -1

                                        @brendanm: I’ve already done that. Read the posts.

                                        • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 20:56
                                          +1

                                          @[Deactivated]: Lol you actually haven't. You've said that it would make a difference in a sudden swerve, which it wouldn't. You said it would make a difference cornering in the rain, it doesn't.

                                          Your only semi-accurate one was accelerating through a corner in the wet, but why anyone with more than 2 brain cells would be doing this, I have no idea.

                                          • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 21:27

                                            @brendanm: No you're demonstrating that you have no idea what grip is. It's not binary buddy, it's dynamic. Without doubt an AWD system would be superior in a sudden swerve, because you're not going to maintain grip in a manoeuvre like that, you'll be looking for traction, which in an AWD is superior. But that doesn't matter, because this is you putting words in my mouth. I didn't suggest a sudden swerve or driving in the rain, you did. Seeing as you're only interested in talking to yourself, and literally refuse to read my posts, this conversation is over. I hope you enjoy your own company.

                                            • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 21:47

                                              @[Deactivated]: Haha AWD will provide more grip in a sudden swerve, nice one! Would only be true if you also mashed the accelerator, nice understanding of grip v traction ;)

                                              Don't make stupid statements about things you don't understand, and we wouldn't have had to have this talk.

                                              Seeing as you refuse to understand the laws of physics, this conversation is over :)

                                              • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 21:50

                                                @brendanm: Last post. I don't think you realise how stupid you sound. At no point did I say 'AWD will provide more grip in a sudden swerve', again, you're trying to put words in my mouth. I said quite the opposite of that: 'would be superior in a sudden swerve, because you're not going to maintain grip'. I'm now convinced you have some kind of comprehension issue. You don't know what you're talking about, and seem to have no understanding of clear, easy to understand English.

                                                • brendanm on 23/05/2019 - 21:54

                                                  @[Deactivated]: Ah yes, why exactly would you be accelerating in a sudden swerve, as traction (the thing you need for acceleration) is the only thing enhanced by awd?

                                                  I'll make it easy for you, unless you are accelerating hard or on a crap surface, AWD provides zero benefit over fwd.

                                                  • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2019 - 22:49

                                                    @brendanm: There's that important distinction between FWD, AWD and 4x4.

                                                    Need to generate power for the adaptive drive system to redistribute power.

                                                    AWD is superior to FWD but no more superior on an SUV than it is on a sedan/hatch nor more crucial to have.

                                                    • brendanm on 24/05/2019 - 10:05

                                                      @[Deactivated]: Only superior in slippery conditions you are trying to accelerate in, or in cars with a decent amount of power. In a standard anaemic little suv, you would be hard pressed to be able to tell whether you had an AWD or fwd one in normal driving.

                                                      • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2019 - 11:01

                                                        @brendanm: Could be accelerating out of a turn. Most people don't and just coast all the way through but it can help when people don't realise they're pushing the lateral grip limits.

                                                        It'll still help with the economy/base model engines but I've never driven an econobox with AWD.

                                                        • brendanm on 24/05/2019 - 13:57

                                                          @[Deactivated]: It could, but with our speed limits it's highly unlikely you will be getting anywhere near the lateral grip limits of anything built in the last 30 years. I can set cruise control at the speed limit and happily negotiate all the corners (lots signposted as recommended 60 in an 80), in the wet in my actual 2.4 tonne 4wd (in rwd mode), in the wet, with no issues, and it's a softly sprung barge. Little soccer mum SUVs will have no issues, even fwd.

                                                          If you're all out of lateral grip in the wet, you won't be accelerating out of corners anyhow, and you are already going to fast for the conditions.

                                                          • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2019 - 14:08

                                                            @brendanm: I could have set up my turn perfectly and am trying to get out of the turn early… in my econobox FWD SUV along an on-ramp on the highway.

                                                            That AWD would come in handy then…

                                                            Or if I'm traffic light dragging on a wet road…

                                                            In other words, typical Australian driving.

                                                            Ps. A lot of the time, people are exceeding the nominal lateral limits. Most passenger tires have very poor feedback and you may very well be pushing the limits. Be careful.

                                                            • brendanm on 24/05/2019 - 15:14

                                                              @[Deactivated]: Haha true, however they should be driving to the conditions. Although the AWD may not come in that handy, as most of the econoboxes have selectable AWD, or AWD on demand, and the understeer would probably have already started by the time they kick power to the back, or in the case of the selectable ones, they are generally left in fwd.

                                                              I'm always careful, did a lot of being silly and finding limits when I was a young lad, now I know how to stay well away from them.

                                                              • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2019 - 15:29

                                                                @brendanm: The new AWD systems actually transfer the power very quickly and smoothly. I remember the R32, I could feel the loss of traction and then the transfer and I thought, "that was a quicky transition". On the newer AWD, I don't even feel the momentary loss.

                                                                Of course, as you say, AWD only works if the foot is still on the gas. It is counter intuitive but braking and shifting all the weight forward before a turn and then having the foot hit the gas lightly immediately before the turn is actually a lot safer in an AWD than just letting it coast through at a higher speed.

                                                                Not that the majority of drivers are going to do that.

                                                                • brendanm on 25/05/2019 - 13:05

                                                                  @[Deactivated]: R32 GTR or VW? Last "sporty" car I had was an S3, and that wasnt too bad at torque deliver to the rear. Don't bother with fast road cars anymore with the way things are.

                                                                  The majority of drivers have a problem with indication, let alone weight transfer.

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