Diesel Wagon - Budget or Cheap

LThe mikky on 07/06/2019 - 22:27
Last edited 08/06/2019 - 14:00

Hi,

I am looking for a cheap diesel wagon, don’t want an SUV. But do want one with decent boot space, and must have is drivers leg room, wanting to get rid of my 2011 Hyundai i30 CW wagon, have been hating long drives as my legs cramp / get sore.

I know how to look up cheap cars on the usual websites, which I have already done. hoping for opinions on owners of diesel wagons to know thoughts from actual drivers about what they do and don’t like.

Also I don’t really care about resale as I do 40 to 50 thousand kms / year. So in 5-7 years the car will not be worth much, but I will have made my mechanic a nice sum of money.

As I do lots of KM’s fuel consumption is a high factor for me, don’t want to waste a lot of money on fuel.

Want the wagon as I have a child, and want boot space for all the usual family stuff.

I pretty much do 95% highway driving to and from work everyday and day trips even further on weekend, and a 2-4 trips from orange Nsw to Brisbane every year.

Appreciate anyone willing to offer their opinion.

Cheers

Edit:

Cheers to all for their suggestions, to be honest my budget really changes depending on what I want to do really, but hoping to spend between 10k - 20k. But could go up to 30k depending if I decide for something newer, I like the newer models, but then I'm like meh, I don't want to spend that much lol. I hate spending money. Especially on such a high return investment as a car :p

I have thought about the following

Mondeos
I40
Commodore diesel wagon. (Crazy thought I know)
Skoda supreme / octavia.
Mazda 6. ( but used one's seem to have really high k`s for the price.)

Happy to hear other suggestions as well.

Cheers

Automotive Car

Comments

  • afoveht on 07/06/2019 - 22:55
    +2

    Not sure what cheap means to you but a diesel Peugeot 308 touring wagon has done me well for years now. Heaps of internal space, highly configurable seat layout. With a rooftop pod it's carried 5 passengers including an infant with portacot and pram/stroller over 1000kms many times in good comfort.

  • whooah1979 on 08/06/2019 - 07:19
    +1

    A Camry Hybrid is economical to own and operate.

    • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 08:32
      +8

      Not a wagon, and hybrid won't be much point for nearly all highway driving.

      • whooah1979 on 08/06/2019 - 13:27

        A Camry hybrid not being a wagon may be the only con. Their fuel consumption is rated at 4.2L/100km. There isn't many diesel vehicles in the same class that may claim a similar fuel economy. It'll probably be more quiet than a diesel both on the highway and urban roads. >50kms would also be a piece of cake.

        • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 14:02
          +9

          Not when I spend 95% of my time at 100km, hybrid not doing anything. So fuel consumption would be much higher.

          • andyfc on 10/06/2019 - 08:53
            +1

            @The mikky: The petrol engine is still almost as efficient as a diesel. I did a 450 km trip to the country in our company (new) camry hybrid and got 4.8 l/100. Which is pretty good. That was on cruise set and forget at 100 km/h.

            Do an extended test drive and see what economy you might get?

        • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 19:54

          Hybrid does (nearly) nothing on the highway. Economy would be much worse than that I imagine.

          • [Deactivated] on 10/06/2019 - 08:40
            +1

            @brendanm: I hired one on a holiday around rural north Queensland. Mostly highway driving, averaged 5.7l to the hundred. Very big car. Comfortable

            • Daniel Plainview on 10/06/2019 - 09:08
              +2

              @[Deactivated]: The Camry Hybrid's are actually a good suggestion - extra-urban fuel consumption is generally rated at ~5L/100km (factory rating so indicative only), combined 5.2L/100km. Which for a car of it's size is up with the very best diesel ratings.

              They're also very well regarded mechanically - I mean the gold standard is look how often they're used as Taxis.

              The batteries tend to last 8-10yrs and then you're up for a bit of a bill but thats the major downside. Apparently they're quite nippy off the mark due to the electric engine being used from stops - you do have to deal with a CVT transmission, which apparently isn't to all tastes but from reports Toyota's is the best of most on market.

              Again I have similar needs to the OP for the next car we get and I've got these shortlisted as they're tough to flaw, perhaps just seen as 'dull' and a fleet car - but IMHO thats not that important.

          • Indomietable on 10/06/2019 - 11:40
            +3

            @brendanm: This is not true. On mine, the electric motor kicks in frequently while driving at highway. The engine is not the same engine as normal Camry - it use Atkinson cycle which improves fuel economy. The car is very comfy and quiet which is good for highway driving. Biggest cons for me is boot space and tiny towing capacity.

            • brendanm on 10/06/2019 - 13:17
              -2

              @Indomietable: Going up hills? Where does the electric motor get it's power from?

              • spackbace on 10/06/2019 - 13:38
                +1

                @brendanm: You know if you're driving up hills, eventually you will come back down that same hill, where you'll be charging the battery and not using fuel…

                • brendanm on 10/06/2019 - 14:29
                  -1

                  @spackbace: That doesn't cancel out though, otherwise you could drive your hybrid forever for free.

                  Edit - and I doubt you'd even be using regen coming down a hill on a highway, they generally aren't very steep.

                  • spackbace on 10/06/2019 - 14:54
                    +1

                    @brendanm: The minute you let go of the accelerator, it's using regen. Worst case, it's using the elec motor. But typically just regen as you coast, be it flat or downhill

                    • brendanm on 10/06/2019 - 16:22
                      +1

                      @spackbace: How often are you using zero throttle on the highway? Likely not often, especially if under regen, that coupled with rolling resistance and wind resistance would have you slowing down fairly quickly I'd imagine. Regardless, you'll get nowhere near the energy in as you put out.

                      • spackbace on 10/06/2019 - 16:32
                        +2

                        @brendanm:

                        Regardless, you'll get nowhere near the energy in as you put out.

                        But you're trying to dismiss people saying about the economy of the Camry Hybrid and how it works, without actually knowing how it works or how it drives yourself?
                        I respect your opinion as a mechanic but please go and drive one of these new model hybrids (Corolla/Camry/RAV4) just to see how effective they actually are in real-world before making calls on how you think they'll be. I've seen a hybrid Corolla down to 3.9L/100, Camry down to 6.3L/100, RAV4 down to 5.3L/100. None of which were driven in perfect scenarios but still reflect a significant fuel saving over their petrol equivalents, on the same type of driving.

                        • brendanm on 10/06/2019 - 17:01

                          @spackbace: I'm not trying to dismiss, simply being realistic about the highway benefits. Not to do with thinking anything in particular about hybrids, it's simply basic physics that you are never going to get anywhere near the regen back down a hill, as put in getting up the hill, due to many factors.

                          My camryish sized diesel gets high 5s in mixed driving with my wife's dodgy driving. I get it under 5.5. The newer ones are even better. Diesel will have higher servicing cost though.

                          Obviously the hybrid is going to be much better than normal petrol, but op wasn't wanting a petrol anyway. I have no doubt the new hybrids are good, I've driven a few of the later Lexus rx450h and they are pretty decent, I just don't believe the advantages are there for highway driving the way they are for city/suburban driving.

                          In city driving you waste a lot of energy braking, this is captured and used in a hybrid. There is hardly any of this on the highway, so you won't see anywhere near the gains in economy.

                        • rave75 on 11/06/2019 - 14:19

                          @spackbace: I got a loaner car: Golf wagon 110 tsi.. I drive from Parramatta to Chatswood daily, I was surprised that the fuel is sitting at 6L/100km for a petrol engine.

                      • Indomietable on 10/06/2019 - 17:01

                        @brendanm: No it doesn't cancel out and you don't get nowhere the energy you put out, but hybrid definitely have positive impact improving fuel consumption on the highway.
                        I don't know how but personally I constantly get under 6.6L/100 travelling around 40 km of highway every weekday on 2010 camry while a colleague of mine get 11L/100 driving normal camry (same year) on longer highway distance.
                        Its a misconception that hybrid does nothing or "much worse" on the highway.

                        • brendanm on 10/06/2019 - 17:05

                          @Indomietable: As above, I never said it does nothing, just is not as effective as when braking a lot.

                          My diesel sedan does much better economy on the highway that your hybrid Camry. Not sure how your mate gets anywhere near 11/100 on the highway in a Camry, does he leave it in second gear?

              • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2019 - 15:40

                @brendanm: Batteries

                You charge them on the downhill runs.

                It not exactly flat between Bathurst and Orange

                • brendanm on 11/06/2019 - 16:00

                  @[Deactivated]: Did you miss the bit about the energy you get back being no where near the energy you put out? Also, I have no idea where you or op are driving.

                  • [Deactivated] on 11/06/2019 - 16:02

                    @brendanm: Yeah, I know hybrid just smooths out the hills and or traffic
                    No free ride

      • This Guy on 09/06/2019 - 22:16
        +1

        Depends which highway you are on. It would be hard to do 50,000km/yr on highways around Sydney and not see a massive saving, BUT I AGREE there are many highways where a hybrid will have very limited benefit.

        • The mikky on 11/06/2019 - 15:10

          I don't drive around Sydney, I drive from Orange to Bathurst every day and back again. I do 100km/h for about 90% of the drive.

          • This Guy on 11/06/2019 - 16:56

            @The mikky: Come on. That drive is hilly and twisty enough that a hybrid would be fine.

            It's not like the freeways around Melbourne which are straight and flat.

            • The mikky on 11/06/2019 - 17:32

              @This Guy: But they also don't make a wagon version in the Camry, and don't particularly want a new rav 4, to get a hybrid with more space.

  • Stimps on 08/06/2019 - 08:08
    +3

    Ford Mondeo

    • mousie on 11/06/2019 - 20:32

      Great car. Crap gearboxes

  • Presence on 08/06/2019 - 09:14
    +1

    Subaru Outback is suv-esque but without the weight or high centre of gravity.

    There's not a lot of traditional wagons for sale, less in diesel. Euro brands make a few but good luck getting them to last 200,000 to 350,000km.

    • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 09:19
      +1

      Yeah my i30 has about 245,000 on the clock and has been good so far

      • [Deactivated] on 08/06/2019 - 22:39
        +1

        If you're doing lots of highway, 100% step up to the Outback. The Diesel Premium variant has extremely comfy seats, a cavernous boot, leather seat w electric controls (micro adjustments on the highway makes your comfort last so much longer) and is really good on fuel.

        I've seen them be a bit finnicky with the DPF but only when the drivers were using them around town a lot.

          • [Deactivated] on 10/06/2019 - 00:29
            +8

            @Levathian: I downvoted because it's just a rubbish anecdotal comment that doesn't provide anything? If you're just going to pettily downvote my comment back, you're not using the button correctly.

            • Levathian on 10/06/2019 - 01:18
              -3

              @[Deactivated]: No, its actual advice I got from a qualified mechanic. Not exactly rubbish anecdotal evidence when it actually comes from someone who knows what they're talking about, and their advice was to avoid Subaru diesels.

              • [Deactivated] on 10/06/2019 - 01:34
                +6

                @Levathian: 1 mechanic speaking to 1 person = anecdotal evidence.

                • Levathian on 10/06/2019 - 01:48
                  -6

                  @[Deactivated]: and your qualification is?

                  • [Deactivated] on 10/06/2019 - 01:49
                    +6

                    @Levathian: I never made an outlandish claim though?

                    • Levathian on 10/06/2019 - 12:41
                      -8

                      @[Deactivated]: Mine isn't outlandish though, it's from someone who knows what they're talking about.

                      Even Subaru enthusiasts know to avoid the diesels.

                      • Levathian on 10/06/2019 - 20:40
                        -5

                        @Levathian: As per usual, ozbargainers here have no idea about anything, judging by the downvotes. lol

        • Levathian on 10/06/2019 - 00:12
          -2

          edit double

    • payless69 on 10/06/2019 - 12:41
      +1

      awd takes a bit but Subi is perhaps the safest if you can find one for the right price. Symmetrical awd is not possible to beat. Equal tyre wear and combined with low centre of gravity safety is all thumbs up.

  • DBBROS on 08/06/2019 - 09:15
    +1

    Mondeo or commodore

  • spackbace on 08/06/2019 - 10:58
    -1

    Commodore or Falcon wagon on gas?

    • Antikythera on 11/06/2019 - 19:17

      my suggestion too. I drive a 2012 Commodore with dedicated LPG and paying 60c a litre is great. Autogas availability in country NSW and QLD might be an issue for OP was my only thought.

  • Daniel Plainview on 08/06/2019 - 11:35
    +4

    Funny how the OP knows what they want and yet others suggest hybrids, LPG etc - suffice to say I'm pretty sure the OP is aware of such options but ASKED for diesel for good reason.

    I've been looking for something somewhat similar (strongly considering medium sized diesel non-SUV for daily rural commute) and there's not a lot of options available. While diesel has certain advantages, generally the main driving factor will be the fuel economy advantages vs petrol - so really it's a running costs thing when boiled down. When this is factored in I think it places a question mark over several very good but more sus to mechanical issues diesels e.g Peugeots, Citreons, Mazda also not well regarded in oil burners.

    Mondeos have a great rep in Europe but took a bashing over the Powershift DCT issues that affected a lot of the blue oval offerings worldwide. I think you could consider these if you could find a model thats ok - you didn't mention if auto or manual required?

    Skoda Octavia's are very well regarded - basically it's a VW Golf in different skin and at a heavily discounted price - they tend to depreciate quite rapidly so a ~3yr old one can be very good value. Again some issues with the 'dry' DSG's but there will be ones that are ok as was a very well known issue (a lot which I am sure stemmed from people NOT knowing that driving a DSG/DCT is best done differently from traditional auto).

    The outside the box but kinda obvious option is to go with another of whats served you very well, that being another i30 diesel. They're very well regarded and while ok maybe not quite as large as you'd like on the rare long drives it'd meet your needs for the vast majority of use…..so to me thats very much a logical 'best fit' in many ways.

    Anyway do let us know how you get on, alas not many options out there and no good IMHO saving money on the fuel only to give a lot of it back due to more mechanical issues.

    • spackbace on 08/06/2019 - 12:08
      -5

      Funny how the OP knows what they want and yet others suggest hybrids, LPG etc - suffice to say I'm pretty sure the OP is aware of such options but ASKED for diesel for good reason.

      They also want a 'cheap' wagon, with no definition of what 'cheap' actually means to them. Your suggestion of a 3yo Skoda could be completely out of the ballpark for them too.

      And then you go on to mention OP buys the same car that gives them leg cramps… yeah well done.

      • Daniel Plainview on 08/06/2019 - 12:26

        hahaha…..as you said yourself there's no definition of 'cheap' given. So there goes that 'argument' of yours. Secondly, a 3yr old Skoda was an example and still relatively cheap ones very much available - a 4-5yr old one even moreso. This was exactly what the OP was asking for …..an LPG car?????

        And yes as the outside the box option I did suggest the same car (albeit in a 5-6yr newer format which MAYBE has better internals - do you know this???) - as they indicated long drives were not frequent. So while leg cramps aren't ideal, they're not the end of the world and I'd much rather deal with them and a car I was evidently pretty happy with for quite a few years use than jumping into LPG or a questionable model I'm not aware of, so yes done well is about right ;-)

    • twww on 08/06/2019 - 14:02

      "Again some issues with the 'dry' DSG's but there will be ones that are ok as was a very well known issue (a lot which I am sure stemmed from people NOT knowing that driving a DSG/DCT is best done differently from traditional auto)."

      Elaborate on this please. How should one drive an DSG auto?

      • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 14:43
        +1

        Drive it like a manual, don't creep it or hold it on hills with the throttle.

    • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 14:42

      Diesel = wet clutch dsg

    • thebadmachine on 08/06/2019 - 19:18
      +3

      Again some issues with the 'dry' DSG's but there will be ones that are ok as was a very well known issue (a lot which I am sure stemmed from people NOT knowing that driving a DSG/DCT is best done differently from traditional auto).

      Yes I agree with this, dual-clutch automatic should be driven as if you were driving a manual, and will have similar characteristics.
      Giving it too much gas will result in excessive slipping of the clutch (and poor engagement due to the computers predictions), if you were driving manual you would carefully accelerate and engage clutch smoothly, so do the same on dual-clutch, but with just the gas pedal.
      Also on uphill starts, do your best to use the ‘auto hill start’ function, which essentially eliminates roll-back when taking your foot off the brake & onto the gas by automatically engaging the rear brakes when you come to a stop. (The annoying thing about this is in stop start traffic the auto ‘creep mode’ is dis-engaged because it conflicts with ‘auto hill start’. I think the creep mode is useful when on a flat or down-hill surface, and potentially bad for the clutch when it automatically does it on a up-hill.)

      And finally but less crucial are; avoid brisk driving (heavy accelerating & breaking) unless absolutely necessary.
      The dual-clutch computer has to make up its mind whether you are needing to accelerate (least amount of clutch-slip) or if you are slowing down (more clutch slip or fully disengage to coast at low speed for smoothness), and switching between heavy acceleration and breaking (or accelerating & breaking hard repeatedly) will have the computer lagging behind what you actually want the transmission to do. Often this results in either the holding of gears at low speeds causing jerkiness (just as you would expect in a manual with clutch fully engaged at low speed) or a big delay from when you push the gas to when the clutch engages and the vehicle moves forwards.
      I will elaborate on this last part, as typically dual-clutch vehicles have a slightly delayed response (compared to traditional torque-converter auto) from when you press the gas to when the vehicle starts moving, this is normal and while a temporary switch into ‘sport mode’ may shorten the delay and improve eagerness, this slight delay is a feature of the dual clutch you have to get used to, and so you will basically be committing earlier on and accelerating earlier (e.g. entering a road) just as you would with a manual.

      Driving a dual-clutch auto while riding the clutch will cause excessive wear, and you may end up with excessive unusual jerkiness at low-speeds (during normal driving), big thuds between gear changes and eventually clutch failure.
      A wet dual-clutch can take more abuse, but everything I mentioned above applies to both wet & dry dual-clutch transmissions.

      • brendanm on 09/06/2019 - 11:01

        Dsg has no problem with hard acceleration, once the clutches are engaged, they arent slipping, and they engage very quickly when you apply the throttle quickly.

        • thebadmachine on 09/06/2019 - 14:27

          Yes once clutches are engaged, just as with a manual, hard acceleration is fine.
          But switching between the gas & break quickly / repeatedly can cause delays, resulting in excessive slip and wear of the clutch.
          Drive it like a manual, you can give it slightly more gas when accelerating from a stop, but you need it to be a smooth motion on the gas pedal (gentle initially but a smooth press).
          If you stomp on the gas or ‘pulse’ the throttle like with a conventional torque-converter auto, the dual-clutch will respond slower and will be under-stress.

          • brendanm on 09/06/2019 - 16:22

            @thebadmachine: You can floor the throttle off the line no problem, clutches engage and it goes, very little slip, same as a manual. The only issue is creeping, holding it on hills etc, anything that would be bad for the clutch in a manual vehicle.

            • thebadmachine on 09/06/2019 - 17:33

              @brendanm: I did originally mention the latter methods as ‘less crucial’.
              But I still think if you care about the longevity of your vehicle (resale value & minimising potential repairs / issues), you should avoid ‘flooring the throttle’ from a complete stop (even more so on an up-hill incline). You may experience little slip but it is putting a lot of stress / friction on the clutch. If you repeatedly floored the throttle from a complete stop in a short-period the clutch would get hot very quickly, and this extreme temperature is usually the cause of many dual-clutch issues (shuddering / failing to engage well etc).
              This is especially true with dry dual-clutch systems which heat up very quickly due to their design. In a worst case scenario your vehicle would likely shutdown via instructions from the vehicles computer (you may have read a few stories about this occurring and in one case causing an accident).

              As I said before my original advice was to avoid brisk-driving, meaning hard acceleration and then hard breaking repeatedly over-and-over (i.e. heavy footed driving).

              We are getting off-topic here, so this will be my last comment.

              • brendanm on 09/06/2019 - 19:06

                @thebadmachine: That's the same for any vehicle at all though, that isn't the recipe for long component life regardless of auto, dual clutch or manual. Driving things hard reduces life.

                Specific to dsg, don't slip them like a torque converter.

                • thebadmachine on 19/06/2019 - 19:56

                  @brendanm: Just thought I should add, the design of dual-clutches means each of the 2 clutches is much smaller and less durable (to compensate for the extra-weight of other components) than if there was only a single clutch like in a manual.

                  As with any transmission there are benefits and compromises:
                  Dual-clutch achieves fuel-efficiency similar to that of manual, with the benefit of being automatic. Compromises are, more complex design (more weight & components), and less durability due to its design.

                  If they made the dual-clutch as durable as a manual, the total weight of the gearbox would likely offset any improvements in fuel-efficiency.

                  • brendanm on 20/06/2019 - 10:15

                    @thebadmachine: No, it is not smaller at all. It isn't a single plate clutch, it is multi plate. Probably has more surface area than a standard clutch.

                    • thebadmachine on 20/06/2019 - 16:20

                      @brendanm: I am talking about dual-clutch vs single-clutch in manual.
                      Dual-clutch has 2 clutches, there is an inner clutch and outer clutch & one is smaller than the other (with the larger of the 2 being responsible for moving from a complete stop).
                      Of course this is all dependent on model. But I was told if you took a clutch from a dual-clutch and a manual clutch from the same make & model, the manual clutch would be larger. (DSG clutch around the diameter of your hand & Manual clutch around the diameter of two hands)

                      If you think about it, it makes sense, since 2 clutches are doing the work of 1 so it can be half the size. But the thing is only one of them is doing most of the work moving the vehicle from a stop. So this clutch ends up wearing faster.

                      • brendanm on 20/06/2019 - 16:37

                        @thebadmachine: Two clutches aren't doing the work of one. One clutch is for one set of ratios, one clutch is for the other set of ratios. Only one is engaged at a time. Have a read up of how a dual clutch gearbox works.

                        As I said, a dsg uses a multi plate clutch, like a motorcycle. It is physically smaller in diameter, but has more plates. More plates = more surface area. Do a google image search to see a picture.

                        • thebadmachine on 20/06/2019 - 16:49

                          @brendanm: Yes I am aware one clutch does gears 1, 3, 5, 7 and the other 2, 4, 6.
                          This is how I am aware that only one of these would be doing the work from a stop (gear 1).
                          In a way they are sharing the load of 1 clutch I would say.

                          If each clutch in a dual-clutch is doing the work of a single-clutch, each clutch is doing more work then, which would mean even more wear for each clutch.

                          • brendanm on 20/06/2019 - 16:50

                            @thebadmachine: No. To start with it is a wet clutch. Secondly, it is a multi plate clutch. Look up what that is.

                            How often do you replace the many clutches in your conventional automatic transmission?

                            • thebadmachine on 20/06/2019 - 16:54

                              @brendanm: There are dry & wet dual-clutch transmissions.
                              With the key difference between them being wet operates with oil between clutches as lubrication. So therefore there is less wear.
                              As far as I am aware both dry & wet use multi-plate clutch.
                              Multi-plate clutch part is also available in manual transmissions.

                              Torque converter is a whole different design.

                              • brendanm on 20/06/2019 - 16:56

                                @thebadmachine: I'm talking about wet clutch. The dry clutch versions have a tonne of wear because they are a stupid idea and people don't drive them properly.

                                If you know about wet clutches, and multi plate clutches, then you will know that they aren't going to be wearing as much as a single plate, dry clutch in a traditional manual.

                                In your initial post a minute ago you stated that the clutches in dsg are "smaller and less durable", when this is not the case at all. In terms of clutch surface area they are likely larger, and the wet clutch versions are much more durable.

                                • thebadmachine on 20/06/2019 - 16:58

                                  @brendanm: You seem to be focusing on the type of clutch only. Even conventional manual can have multi-plate clutch.

                                  I am comparing the whole design of transmission as a whole, to achieve my conclusion on wear & longevity.

                                  I think you are looking at one component as responsible, but I am saying it is the package as a whole transmission which gives it its benefits & compromises.

                                  Edit: I did say early on, that wet clutch versions are able to take more abuse.

                                  • brendanm on 20/06/2019 - 17:05

                                    @thebadmachine: As above, you are the one who has started talking about the size of the clutches, and literally said that dsg clutches are "smaller and less durable" which is not at all the case.

                                    It's also not the case that the gearbox itself is less durable, it's basically a robotised manual gearbox. The only "less durable" part is the mechatronics, and even this is generally simply a failed solenoid.

                                    I've seen these with 300k km+ on original clutches driving just fine.

                                • thebadmachine on 20/06/2019 - 17:07

                                  @brendanm: I am just a owner of dual clutch. And I think any other owner would also reach the logical conclusion as I have.
                                  If the designer & engineer of the DSG came and told me otherwise I would still ask them to explain in detail.
                                  Until then I think it is quite a logical conclusion. Dual-clutch is still a new transmission type & less durable than conventional manual or torque-converter automatic (particularly when it is driven wrong).

                                  • brendanm on 20/06/2019 - 19:41

                                    @thebadmachine: They have been around for 15 odd years, it is not new. It is not less durable than a manual or conventional auto. Porsche, McLaren etc seem to have no problem getting them to hold 700 odd horsepower.

                                    I have explained to you why the clutch doesn't wear like in a standard manual. It is a wet clutch, and it is multi plate. It has more surface area and less slippage, and far better cooling.

                                    If you are just an owner and don't actually know how they work or why, I'm not sure why you are making assumptions about clutch size and longevity. I'm the owner of a dsg, as well as a mechanic who's worked on a lot of dual clutch equipped vehicles.

                                    • thebadmachine on 20/06/2019 - 22:19

                                      @brendanm: I am saying they are good. But I am sure other owners of DCT would agree, that they just lack confidence like older refined transmissions.
                                      I have driven both conventional TC auto & manual, and you feel how solid they are.
                                      I feel more conscious when driving DCT, fragile maybe is too strong a word but along those lines.

                                      I do admit I am a slow adopter of new technologies. So I always have my inflated concerns.
                                      I will stand by driving a DCT a certain way, like a manual.

                                      I have never driven a Porsche or Mclaren, I just imagine they would have a much more advanced DCT from R&D and performance requirements.

                                      • brendanm on 21/06/2019 - 10:32

                                        @thebadmachine: You can feel however you like, but at the end of the day your feelings and assumptions are incorrect. A wet clutch dsg is easily as strong and durable as a manual transmission, and the clutches last a lot longer than regular manual clutches. As I said, I'm the owner of a dsg currently, previous car the wife had had a dsg, and when I sell this one, the next one will have a dsg. I have no issues or worries about it. This one gets driven pretty hard the odd times I drive it.

                                        You realise who owns Porsche don't you?

  • JDMcarfan on 08/06/2019 - 11:54
    +3

    my money would be on either the i40 diesel wagon (don't know if that's new enough for you), or otherwise a Subaru Outback Diesel (as mentioned before) if your looking for comfort & longevity. Both come from reliable (non-euro) manufacturers, so won't have excessive servicing costs. Given the amount of kms you do, I don't think a 6 or 12 month service interval will matter as you'd probably hit it at around 6 months anyways.

    Plus point. I have an 5th Outback (2015-2019), albeit petrol, and can attest to the comfort levels and convenience offered by the car. Try get a MY16 or later for the diesels as that is when the radar cruise control became available, whilst MY16 also added on auto-dimming and blind-spot monitoring, something my MY15 doesn't have.
    Also, the Subaru dealers have a good rep of dissuading unsuitable customers from their diesel models if they aren't going to be doing long-distance/highway driving (certainly happened to me). So if you are planning to get it second-hand you should be free from dealing with any DPF issues caused by city-drivers who would otherwise be unaware of diesel mechanics.

    Just my 2c.

    • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 14:07

      Yeah I see my mechanic roughly 3 to 4 times a year anyway, so not worried about timing, more about the amount of kms.

      And yeah I do like the look of those outbacks, and other diesels but am wary about those city dwelling one's you mentioned.

  • Baysew on 08/06/2019 - 12:45

    OP - Perhaps list your short list of cars you have found so far. Helpful if you state budget, new/used, auto/manual etc.

    I wonder if things had been a little lot different, we may have seen Diesel Falcons and Holdens.

    • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 14:08

      Done. Have edited original post.

      • Daniel Plainview on 09/06/2019 - 09:56

        OP, have tried to assist you as have others but despite repeated requests you've still not given the very basic info of whether its an auto or manual you're after?

        FWIW I'd pay particular weight to what user, brendanm says - he's the author of one of the best AMA threads ever on OzB, a career mechanic and also has several cars similar to what you're after.

        • The mikky on 09/06/2019 - 10:55

          Sorry about that, I am happy with either manual or auto, however the missus can only drive auto, so guess auto it is.

          And thanks for that, will listen to his advice. Cheers

  • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 14:41

    Don't get a Mondeo, and don't get a diesel Mazda 6. The Subaru diesel is also pretty average.

    • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 14:44

      Can you provide some reasons behind this ? I genuinely would like to know what the negatives of those are.

      • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 14:55
        +2

        The Mazda 6 is well known to have "making oil" issues (it fills the sump with diesel when doing a regeneration). The Mondeo powershift is a terrible transmission. The actual proper automatic one may be ok, but it's still semi common for them to have injector seal issues, not too bad if you pick up on it early before it eats the head and torches the injector.

        The Subaru is just a "meh" engine, not particularly torquey down low, only CVT if you want auto, and has a habit of getting glow plug issues, and the plugs breaking in the head.

        • The mikky on 08/06/2019 - 15:26

          Thanks for the details, will keep it in mind.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/06/2019 - 22:42

        The Mazda diesels have a reputation for lasting 100,000km and that's it. I would avoid one if at all possible.

        Fords are shit, period. There's a class action against their auto transmissions. Not sure if the Mondeo comes in a manual, but if it did, the interior would be no better/more comfortable than your i30.

        Not sure what the other bloke is on about re the Subaru diesel. The problems are well known, but not exactly serious, but they are plenty powerful, they're as torquey as your i30 is.

        • brendanm on 09/06/2019 - 11:09

          Not exactly serious? Removing the head to get a stuck glow plug out is fairly serious. Also dpf issues, through that shouldnt be a problem for op. They have 110kw and 350nm of torque, in something relatively heavy, with a CVT and awd. They are one of the more underwhelming diesels to drive, and I quite like Subarus.

          Op can always take it for a drive and decide for himself anyway, it may be fine for him.

          • [Deactivated] on 09/06/2019 - 11:47

            @brendanm: Sure, but it's not like every single engine has a stuck glow plug.

            And no one is saying you have to get a CVT, I've only driven the Subaru diesels with a manual with which they have been fantastic and far more than adequate.

            • brendanm on 09/06/2019 - 16:18

              @[Deactivated]: Not every single one, but it's common enough, amongst other things. Even Subaru enthusiasts warn people off them.

              Op has to get a CVT, as his wife can only drive auto. If manual, you then have dmf and classic Subaru release bearing issues.

  • This Guy on 09/06/2019 - 22:30
    +2

    Look at a 2016+ Sportage Diesel.

    4 years left of manufacturer warranty.
    Better driving position.
    Rear seats recline

    but
    Shorter boot
    Higher price

    • thebadmachine on 09/06/2019 - 23:55
      +2

      Yes I think this is a genuinely good comment. Try an SUV on for size (I’m sure legroom is much better).
      Less boot-space may depend on model (also 5 seats up vs 7 seats up), but you will likely gain more legroom (for driver and passengers), more comfortable ride (especially over speed humps & bad roads) and higher driving position (visibility).
      Also easier on the back when putting kids in their seat.

      Edit: thought Kia Sportage was the same size as a Hyundai Santa Fe.

      • This Guy on 10/06/2019 - 21:59

        Now they are. KIA had the current chassis out ~two years earlier than Hyundai.

    • Levathian on 10/06/2019 - 00:13
      -4

      kia + diesel + suv?

      do you really want to take the chance?

      • Daniel Plainview on 10/06/2019 - 08:57
        +1

        With all due respect I really wonder what basis you have for such comments?

        Kia have over the past 5yrs rated consistantly high in auto reliability indexes e.g JD Power. They've a very good reputation particularly for their diesel engines, which I believe they often get from Hyundai (or vice versa).

        And SUV? Well I don't like the 'sheep' buying of them but saying it's taking a chance on an SUV makes no sense.

        Seems to me there's a handful of folks trying in constructive, fact based ways to assist the OP and have discussion and a small number of others just poo-pooing anything mentioned.

        So please do us a favour and provide a basis for why a diesel Kia is an issue/risk? So………….?

        PS. And why was the above suggester downvoted for suggesting a diesel 2016+ Sportage? I can only assume it was you who did this - it's actually a very good suggestion and done in a constructive and balanced manner. Perhaps read the Wiki on the proper use of downvoting rather than abusing the functionality.

      • payless69 on 10/06/2019 - 12:26

        dumb comment! The CDRI engine is one of the better one out and is likely to last and highway is not much over 5l.
        They are usually pricey but if ya really poor the Holden knock offs (really Daewoos) are usually going for a song. (there is of course a reason for that)

      • This Guy on 10/06/2019 - 22:46

        Hyundai's R diesel engines had issues with fuel hoses in the 2.2L design. This was a production issue with Korean vehicles (which we get), and was found and fixed quickly. The issue presented it's self early from my experience (first 50km) and caused the vehicle to go into limp mode to reduce the chance of damage or fire (by keeping the exhaust cold). It seemed to be an improperly installed hose clip that caused this problem. The issue was caught and fixed promptly.

        Unlike most of it's rivals, the R diesel's DFP was part of this motor's last redesign's engine package. This allows it to have a silly low activation point (~5km/h) unlike the rivals who included their DFP as part of an exhaust redesign. I say redesign and not initial design because almost every motor is a licence and update of a very old motor.

        The only recent engine issue at Hyundai/KIA was the Theta II 2L/2.4L's oil filter being too small on US produced engines, meaning missed/delayed services or the use of out of spec parts could caused engine seal failures. The only Korean built (the ones we get) Theata II motors that I know of that were replaced due to this flaw were flogged by their owners.

        Anyway, a read up on the R diesel since you seem to care

  • Buckshot on 10/06/2019 - 09:20
    +1

    The Mondeo Turbo Diesel Wagon is a great option. The motor is made by PSA group (a joint venture with Ford, Citroen and Peugeot) so
    Spares are more widely available that way which is a good thing.

    My Dad has had two diesel Mondeo's. A 2013 MC and a current model Trend hatch. Both haven't skipped a beat and he regularly gets up to 1100km's off one tank.

    Also a well-made cabin with a decent ambience. If you want to focus on the economy side of things- avoid AWD. Your tyre wear will be faster, fuel consumption higher.

  • nkription on 10/06/2019 - 11:03

    Mondeo is a great car. Just make sure you service the transmission(every 60k from memory) to keep any of those issues away

  • payless69 on 10/06/2019 - 12:32
    +1

    Diesel all the way! 4 cyl direct inj is the way to go. Upon inspection take a syringe and suck out some coolant. Put into clear glass and if dirty bargain down!

    Ge the fuel filter replaced, if any neglect found even a tank flush can be beneficial. Reason is diesel is an organic fluid full of life. Say if the car had been driven only around town then offer less.

    For me after 1 mio km on petrol I will stay on diesel until electrics make sense, perhaps in about 5 years…

  • roundnumbersonly on 10/06/2019 - 15:18

    Kia Rondo CRDI, although I'm led to believe that Kia Australia aren't bringing these in any more. I think you would be able to get a 17 plate within your budget.

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