In Need of Unbiased Opinions - Dispute with Shower Screen Installer

LSnoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 08:54
Last edited 10/07/2019 - 10:18 by 1 other user

Hey guys, I'm currently in a dispute with a company that installed shower screens at my place. The bottom aluminum rail on the outside has started to corrode and we have differing views on what caused it. So I thought I'll get some independent views from here. Any opinion, either based on experience or just simply through logic will be much much appreciated!

Here's a pic

There were slightly deep scratches on the 2 spots where the corrosion is. If you look closely you can still make out where the original scratch lines were. On installation I did see them but only considered it to be an aesthetic issue (yes, stupid me) so didn't point it out to the installer or take photos (again, stupid me).

The installers opinion, just based on 2 photos I emailed them (and refusing to come out to have a look), is that I used chemicals and left it sitting on those two spots without rinsing it off. They claim the corrosion or white stain around it, especially on the vertical face of the rail is further proof that a chemical I used caused this. The funny thing is, the corrosion they are referring to on the face of the rail is actually just a reflection of the silicon underneath! The face is completely clean and shiny, proving my point that they at least need to come out to have a look before making a conclusion.

My opinion is that the water resting on the flat horizontal surface has caused the corrosion over time, and obviously significantly worse corrosion on where the 2 scratches were. I'm in Brisbane, where the water is quite hard with minerals (calcium and chalk) and then there's chlorine. There is this sort of corrosion or white stain all over the bottom aluminium rails, but only on flat horizontal surfaces where water can rest. The vertical surfaces are all clean.

To me, its obvious the installer is trying to get out of honouring their 7 year warranty (its been only 1 year since installation). But this could just be my biased opinion so I will really appreciate any honest opinions you guys might have!

Home & Garden

Comments

SnoozeAndLose on 10/07/2019 - 08:57

-3

have you clean it regularly?

If you at least Mod it every few days it should have been better.
oscargamer on 10/07/2019 - 09:18

+2

If what you say is correct, stick to your guns.

If they refuse to pay ball, get a quote from another builder/plumber to replace the strip and send them that quote with a timeframe for them to do the work or you'll get the new guy to do the work and bill them the quoted amount.

May or may not work.
ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 09:24

+4

I've completely flipped this post cause I came to the right answer (probably) in my post script….

PS: That silicone job is flipping awful!

The problem is probably more shitty silicone work causing a thin layer of clear silicone to have been left on the Aluminium and over the past 12 months, bacteria/mould have taken to growing underneath it.

I've left the rest of what I originally wrote below.

Aluminium doesn't Rust like that, not even with sitting water.
Aluminium Oxide forms a thin protective coating over the surface preventing further oxidation unless the oxide layer is removed, ie by scrubbing with something hard like steel wool.
Even then, the fresh Aluminium would oxidise and re-form the protective Oxide layer almost immediately.
I don't even believe a chemical reaction could make this brown colour on Aluminium!

Iron Oxide, has that Brown Colour, but the metal clearly isn't Iron. It might be a highly buffed Stainless Steel, but even cheap stainless wont corrode like that.
- Kangal on 10/07/2019 - 09:40
  
  It looks like Aluminium, but based on the photos you cannot be sure that it is, but it would be stupid to use Steel or Stainless Steel.
  OP says it's been 1 year since installation, which is adequate time for damage.
  The top metal parts seem to have strange patterns, so maybe this is possible or maybe it is chemical.
  
  However, regardless it is expected that Bleach is to be used as a cleaning product in showers, and rinsed off after a couple minutes.
  It's possible that the surface of the metal was scratched at the two points, removing protective layers, and leaving it vulnerable. And the OP could have accidentally not rinsed that area adequately, one clean after another, but it seems a little unlikely.
  
  The side of the metal, which had the scratch, that's the concern.
  It looks like its cracking, and corroding from the inside. And since its on its side, there's no chance that area was not adequately rinsed.
  Since the smallest water spray would have done the trick, and its a large enough area that it wasn't missed.
  
  Overall, I'm not sure about the installation but the material used was unfit for the task. Therefore it must be honoured under warranty.
  Too bad, so sad for the company, but they have a legal obligation (not to mention ethical) to do a job done well, since they have already touched the site, gave their assurances, and taken the money. So OP you need to stick to your guns. There's probably a dozen jobs like this every year the company needs to go and fix, but because they bully the consumers, the amount they actually fix up diminishes to about 1. Don't be the other 11.
  - ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 10:31
    
    +1
    
    It looks like Aluminium to me, and the only other possibility is Stainless Steel, but it's only a mild possibility, in that it doesn't look a whole lot like SS and it's an unusual use case for SS.
    Either way the metal type is irrelevant.
    
    Bleach will NOT corrode Aluminium like this. Similarly, Stainless Steel will not corrode like this. Scratched or not.
    Not with Bleach, Not with Water, Not with anything out of a Chemistry Lab*!
    As such, it's NOT corrosion!
    
    If there were scratches, then water has suck in through the scratch under the shittily applied Silicone and Bacteria/Mould have grown, protected from cleaning by the silicone.
    
    The bacteria would have found a way under anyway, but the scratch would have helped.
    
    OP should lift the silicone on the flat surface (an old credit card sanded down to a sharp edge would do the trick) to demonstrate to the Installers that this is a result of their poor workmanship and an easy fix, then the Installers can come out, remove the old stuff and have someone (who has been trained for 5 minutes) to properly apply new silicone.
    
    *note that I'm not saying that Aluminium wont react with anything at all, it just wont react to produce a brown precipitate like the one shown.
    - Snoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 11:14
      
      Just did some more hard cleaning to try and remove the brown precipitate.
      
      https://imgur.com/a/kAhyCDX
      
      The scratch marks are much more obvious too
      - knk on 10/07/2019 - 11:26
        
        @Snoochem55: That kinda looks like rust pitting, get us a close up clear pic of it if you can.
        
        I'd assume that like others have said the shitty top layer has been scratched, somethings got under there and corroded it. Either way, you're not a tradesman and were using this under regular circumstances. They should be replacing it.
        
        ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 12:31
        
        @knk: Except Aluminum doesn't rust
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 13:06
        
        +1
        
        @ESEMCE: It can rust. But rare.
        
        But agreed. It's not rust. It's corrosion.
        
        knk on 10/07/2019 - 13:08
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I guess the two look very similar, either way shouldn't be OPs problem.
        
        ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 14:51
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I can't think of any oxidation product of aluminum that is brown.
        There probably is one, but you're going to need some intense industrial processes to generate it, it's simply not going to happen in a home environment.
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 15:16
        
        @ESEMCE: Who says it's the aluminium?
        
        Most of the time it's from a foreign element. ie. steel wool cleaning an aluminium pot. Iron deposits get left and ingrained.
        
        Something caused the scratches on OP's aluminium trip. Probably wasn't something else that was aluminium.
  - Snoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 11:08
    
    +1
    
    I suspect it could be some low quality material as well.
    
    I also made the point to the installer that they were implying that somehow I managed to miss those two spots every time I cleaned. Was completely ignored of course
    - ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 11:16
      
      Get a sharp plastic scraper on it…
      or a razor blade, just make sure to be careful not to cut the metal or yourself!
- [Deactivated] on 10/07/2019 - 11:39
  
  -3
  
  Aluminium is only a synthetic metal alloy. It corrodes over time just as any other synthetic material does. Generally, the less synthetic processing goes into making a product then the longer it will last.
  
  Artifacts and structures left over from ancient civilizations long perished are always whatever they built using natural materials. Their synthetic tools and technology vanished quickly soon after the civilization disappeared leaving us to to wonder in awe at how what must of been a primitive people working with only the bare basics built such wonders as the pyramids.
  
  So, I would of used something like porous stone for the shower recess instead of the cheap alloy/glass and splattering of silicone. Then you would have something that can stand the test of time not just for the time you reside in the house but long after our civilization fails and disappears leaving archeologists of the future to gape with awe and bewilderment how Snoochem55 primitive shower recess was constructed given there is no evidence of modern synthetic technological artifacts where the shower recess pyramid was built…
  - Euphemistic on 11/07/2019 - 10:52
    
    +3
    
    Aluminium is only a synthetic metal alloy. It corrodes over time just as any other synthetic material does. Generally, the less synthetic processing goes into making a product then the longer it will last.
    
    Aluminium is an element. In its pure form it is a metal element. Most likely this example would not be pure and form some sort of alloy where additional metals/products are added to enhance the strength, durability or other features of the aluminium. Synthetic is kinda misleading as it indicates that humans have made it somehow when it would be a mix of natural products (that may have been refined).
Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 10:35

OP
https://imgur.com/a/rg2zJTf

The funny thing is, the corrosion they are referring to on the face of the rail is actually just a reflection of the silicon underneath!

Are you sure this is reflection from the silicon?
- ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 10:38
  
  The vertical face is the reflecting one, not the horizontal.
  - Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 10:38
    
    Ok, then maybe OP can identify what I've circled. Water doesn't cause that.
    - ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 10:39
      
      I think that's a thin layer of clear silcone from the Aluminium/Glass corner.
      (again shittily applied)
      - Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 10:42
        
        @ESEMCE: Doesn't look like silicone. Maybe OP can check first and try and remove some if that's the case.
        
        If it isn't silicone then you know where I'm going with this.
        
        ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 10:43
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Ewwww!
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 11:00
        
        @ESEMCE: It's possible some sort of cleaner was used on the glass which has pooled against the glass at the bottom.
        
        OP could list the cleaning products used to confirm or tick off any possible culprits.
    - Snoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 11:06
      
      I'm not sure what it is but I just can't seem to be able to remove it. Initially I'd use general purpose spray and wipe, and when that didn't work I used this product:
      
      https://www.bunnings.com.au/clr-750ml-bathroom-and-kitchen-c…
      
      Followed the instructions of course and rinsed multiple times just to be sure with hardly any luck. Sort of decided to live with it but the two spots with scratches was unacceptable to me.
      - Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 11:29
        
        @Snoochem55: Bingo.
        
        Ajax Spray and Wipe and CLR would do that. Especially CLR. It is very low pH and corrosive. The corrosion is only against the glass in varying patches along the entire length, not just where the scratches are, indicates to me it likely wasn't rinsed off sufficiently.
        
        A scratch or 2 would not corrode like that on their own. The aluminium would have an oxide layer. Even over a scratch.
        
        Snoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 11:38
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Right. I used those products to try and remove those white stains. Maybe those stains were just water marks or something (I can't remember exactly how they looked) and I made it worse by using those products. I'm sure I went over it multiple times rinsing it though…
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 11:43
        
        @Snoochem55: If not those, then what cleaning products were used on the glass and aluminium over the past 12 months?
        
        Maybe those stains were just water marks or something
        
        Those stains are not water marks.
        
        Thus why the installer is pushing back.
        
        Snoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 11:54
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Used nothing on the glass as we got a water repelling coating put on by the installer and was told by them to not use any chemicals on it for obvious reasons.
        
        Well those stains are not a concern for me. Happy to live with them. Its the 2 spots that originally had scratches on them which seems to be slowly corroding now. I did some more cleaning with a old credit card and this is what is looks like
        
        https://imgur.com/a/kAhyCDX
        
        You can see that those scratches are much more obvious now…
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 11:59
        
        @Snoochem55:
        
        Well those stains are not a concern for me. Happy to live with them
        
        I think you're missing my point.
        
        The corrosion is there for a reason that's not caused by the installer.
        
        Even after being scratched aluminium will restore an oxide layer. Water won't affect the oxide layer. Low or High pH cleaning products will. The scratches won't turn into that on their own.
        
        I already saw the second pic, and you can still see corrosion on other parts far from the scratches. This indicates to me that something was likely used to cause that corrosion.
        
        Snoochem55 on 10/07/2019 - 12:18
        
        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Ok fair enough. If that's the only possibility then its definitely my fault…
        
        We had new tiles installed as well which we had to clean multiple times to remove the grout haze. We probably did one of these cleans after the screens were installed and probably got some of the cleaning product on the aluminum rails which we then didn't rinse off. Maybe.
        
        Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 10/07/2019 - 13:11
        
        @Snoochem55: It's definitely not the only possibility. It's just my unbiased personal view of the most likely cause of what you have.
        
        If the cleaning products removed the protective layer, then the cleaner in the cracks of the scratches will do more damage than on a flat piece of aluminium. Thus why there's patches of corrosion but where the scratches are it's developed into something far more worse.
        
        You could argue it wouldn't have happened if the scratches weren't there - but they'll argue back that you accepted the condition at the completion of the job and that a cleaning product caused the corrosion and was the main cause of the issue.
        
        ESEMCE on 10/07/2019 - 12:36
        
        @Snoochem55: You may have etched the Aluminum with the acid… this still doesn't explain the brown stains.
        
        There may also have been a clear-coat Varnish over the Aluminum that has been damaged.
        This would provide similar cover for Mould/bacteria if the clear coat has lifted.
Cheeper on 10/07/2019 - 10:54

+2

Take your photo to another shower co. or two and ask them what they think is the problem.
To me it simply looks like unsuitable material has been used for the bottom rail. If that is the case put that fact to the installer and ask for them to replace it. If they refuse again go to dept of fair trading.
elgrande on 10/07/2019 - 11:46

Unbiased opinion: Does it impact the petformance of the shower screen?
- Bargain80 on 10/07/2019 - 14:52
  
  +1
  
  Does it impact the petformance of the shower screen?
  
  disclaimer, no animal harmed during the testing of the shower screen
peteru on 11/07/2019 - 03:33

+1

This is a typical corrosion pattern caused by alkaline and chlorine based products reacting with aluminium. It will be particularly pronounced in areas that already had some pitting / surface damage.

The shower screen installer is correct in saying that this is caused by inappropriate use of chemicals and incorrect care. Your counter argument might be along the lines of not having been given appropriate care instructions, however that may be stretching it.

Some purpose specific products, such as shower cleaners, will have fine print that warn about prolonged contact with soft metals like aluminium. Generic products, such as plain household bleach, will probably not have such level of "arse covering" printed on the packaging.

tl;dr: You caused the damage because you didn't know any better. Were you supposed to know or has the supplier of the product failed to adequately inform you?
- [Deactivated] on 11/07/2019 - 09:06
  
  -1
  
  How does an alkaline solution cause corrosion? Doesn't even make sense. A chlorine based thus 'acidic' chemical would cause corrosion. Normal tapwater happens to be a chlorinated acid but honestly if a shower recess can't handle a bleach clean which is generally the standard in households for decades when it comes to removing grit and mold from the bathroom then the installer has used some seriously cheap sh*t building materials…
  
  OP deserves a refund/refit at the installers expense. Office of fair trading/consumer affairs in your state would be the one to contact if the business involved refuses to remedy their substandard work.
  - Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/07/2019 - 11:50
    
    +1
    
    Normal tapwater happens to be a chlorinated acid
    
    Maybe you'd like to enlighten us all with the average pH of your tap water, compared to the pH of CLR or Spray and Wipe cleaner.
    - Snoochem55 on 11/07/2019 - 12:11
      
      So the two products I used both say its appropriate for use for bathroom cleaning. For CLR is specifically says that its appropriate for use on shower screens and frames. Both also says to rinse well which I thought I did…
      - Snoochem55 on 11/07/2019 - 12:23
        
        +1
        
        @Snoochem55: I guess another point worth making is that I had 3 shower screens installed by this company over a period of 3 months last year. Two of them have no stains/corrosion at all and I used the same cleaning method and products on them too.
        
        Only difference I guess is that the shower screen with the issue gets used at least 4 times a day while the others not as often.
      - Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/07/2019 - 12:29
        
        +1
        
        @Snoochem55:
        
        So the two products I used both say its appropriate for use for bathroom cleaning
        
        CLR also says the following on the rear label
        
        "WARNING: Avoid prolonged contact with any surface. Rinse properly after application. CLR is corrosive."
        
        Coincidentally your issue is that - corrosion.
HighAndDry on 16/07/2019 - 12:52

Aluminium pretty much doesn't corrode naturally - because a layer of it turns into aluminium oxide which is basically a perfect seal and prevents any further corrosion. What others have said is likely to be right, it looks like a layer of silicon over it that's got gunk growing underneath. That, or yeah, you're cleaning it wrong.
whatthecrappin on 02/08/2020 - 08:12

Ive got the same problem and its corroding massively now.

Going to try some rust converter………

In Need of Unbiased Opinions - Dispute with Shower Screen Installer

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