Hi Campers,
I have a question for you all…
I work in product design and am currently researching developments in camping equipment. I would love to know where you think the next areas of focus could be with camping, more specifically - you give me some problems/frustrations and i'll come up with some solutions.
No wrong answers, look forward to creating a discussion with everyone.
(For the record I am a frequent camper myself)
I am at the research stage of the process which is why I am reaching out to a mass of other campers to get a feel for what is needed. Hard to design solutions without knowing the problems.
Depending on member's involvement/enthusiasm here I would happily keep everyone up to date with progression and future ideas
Not to rain on your parade, but if I've a great idea… what incentive is there for me to share it with you / public?
I will vote + on your post if you share it.
I don't want your ideas, I want to know what your problems are so I can solve it using my own ideas
@feebo: Ok, I'll reword my suggestion below to be a problem.
I like hiking. I like a cold beer after a long hike. I need to carry either ice or a fridge to cool said beer. Can you make something more portable and lighter than will give me cold beer for an entire day or cool the beer within an acceptable time once I reach said hiking destination?
@feebo: Well, I'll try to not be a Richard, the most common problems with camping is: Energy, Heat, Water, Weight, Storage, Cleaning So I suggest you try to combine these problems/solutions together. For instance, a way to Heat with less Storage size.
I personally would look into making a Personal Silo:
A cylinder that can fit into a cup holder (70mm) in the car, like a Coke Can. It would be tall like a thermos (250mm) and probably weigh 200 grams. Think of it like those Bluetooth Speakers. The design needs to be (IP67 ?) water resistant and durable (MIL-STD-810G?) against drops. The outer-portion would be (8mm) lined with Lithium-ion battery, making a 4,000mAh at 12V, or 13,000mAh at 3.7V (roughly total 48Wh). That's about 3-times your phone capacity, the flask would have a small and efficient light for emergencies. The inner portion would hold your water/tea, and its dimensions are roughly 60mm width by 200mm, so would house about 600mL's. That way you can grab this one item, use it to store your water and probably enjoy your hot beverage when you've reached the Hike. And you could also refill if there's a creek by, and heat it with the cells. One of the best ways to heat yourself in the forest is to actually drink hot (50'C) water. And based on these stats you can heat 500mL's of water within 30minutes, from 10'C to 50'C, using less than 48Wh. Believe it or not, in the case of getting lost, this "SmarThermos" would increase your survival by an extra 2-days, which is around the cutoff point between dying and being rescued. So if your going for a quick walk with three friends, and as per usual they ditch their bags behind, if each person grabbed one of these in their hands, then you're likely to overcome the most common problem: Energy, Water, Heat.
@afoveht: Lol :D
Also to add to this, a less elegant solution would be to have a 800mL Thermos in one-hand, and a Portable Battery like the Suaoki U10 (74Wh) in the other, and somehow use that very portable battery to heat your flask. Otherwise go full-lumberjack and scavenge/cut wood into timber, start a fire with a lighter, and heat water with metal container.
Frequent camper here.
Can't think of anything I have that I'd improve specifically, but making your existing items continually lighter and smaller is always very appreciated.
I agree, heavy bulky stuff makes camping more of a pain than it needs to be.
Let me know if you think of any issues though - on the hunt for issues rather than suggestions. For example having my own experiences, I can say its a real pain to have to wash dishes
I can say its a real pain to have to wash dishes
Design a range of hydrophobic camping food containers and utensils? Just make sure the coating won't come off and poison the campers, thanks =D
Ok here's one. No idea if feasible (guess that's your job :) )
A small freezer bag like this that collapses down really small, with the entire inside layer made of the stuff they use in the instant snap chill packs, that I could go hiking somewhere remote, snap the bag, it makes the inside cold, I could then throw in a 6 pack of craft beer warm and end up with chilled beer ready to drink in an hour or 2.
Now that I would pay good money for, but I assume you will give me some free in lieu of royalties :D
the next areas of improvement could be with camping
Like…. "camping"? That's a really wide product range. At least narrow it down to a class of products or a specific product.
Just edited the desc - I should have been more clear to specify I'm looking for the things that piss people off about the experience, or things that annoy them about their existing equipment
Dont cater to camping in general. There is already a HUGE market. Cater to niches like - Bicycle camping, motorcycle camping, long distance hikers, mountain climbers, kayakers etc.
I am specifically targeting car camping but wanted to get insights from all varieties of campers
That is a tough one. Because with car camping there are not alot of problems that need solving and a product that solves a problem is what makes a good product. i.e. the parameters you have to operate in are alot more broad and forgiving with cars. For example, terrain, temperature, weight, distance, remoteness. These all become easy with cars where as with other means of adventure become more difficult.
Hiking or camping?
In either scenario, the main problems I have is that a lot of brands, especially high end boutique brands (not just OEM and rebranding) are outdoorsmen trying to turn their hobby into a living without the necessary engineering knowledge.
My frustration is bad engineering. Example, survival knives. What's the point of a cord cutter at the end of a freaking knife. That's what a knife is for. A pommel has more uses.
Addition of seration to back of blade… Well, now I can't push against the back.
Things like that where someone has added features for the sake of having a long list rather than the tool actually being useful.
I think you have it the other way around. It is engineers trying to make a living out of other peoples hobbies that they kind of do but dont do enough. I have always found the people who get out there alot and do it are the ones who make the most logical product practical products. Atleast in relation to dirt biking, mountain biking, 4 wheel driving, mountain climbing. I cant comment on hiking specifically.
I guess that road goes both ways but you're right. Sometimes something is so well built but serves no purpose. I have come across that but more often than not, it is a great idea with terrible execution.
Couldn't agree more, the market is saturated with cheap "all-in-one" that struggle to solve an individual issue very well at all
When you can only pack so much the more versatility from each piece the better but there is a point you just you have to stop.
isn't' one of the talents of an engineer to find a problem and solve it? You're outsourcing the first part, how good will your grasp of the next part be if it's not 'your' problem to fix? look for things that annoy you about camping, and 'design a better mousetrap' as it were.
Part of a designers job is to research existing products and gather feedback on them.
to find a problem
That's exactly what i'm doing, I'm working out what the people want, not what I want
not usually on a bargain forum where most people would wash a disposable fork rather than buy cutlery though!
Product research would more be along the lines of looking at items which address a task and refining that or finding a new way. Finding a new problem, that's hard to relate to if it' isn't your problem you've found.
That said, whatever works for the designer! :)
Power is a problem. At the moment i need a massive ass solar panel to keep my batteries charged and even then it's not a certainty. Storing power is also a problem. 12v lead batteries are large, heavy and expensive. Lithium batteries are better because they hold more usable power but still large and even more expensive than lead.
I'd pay $$$ for a denser battery chemistry too, but I think electric cars and mobiles will have it long before campers!
CSIRO have recently developed these thin printable solar cells
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/MF/Areas/Innovation/Flex-El…
A colleague is looking to implementing this into the camping scene - so eventually there will be easier options
Given you said car camping, some kind of targeted EMP device that can be used to take out the bogans stereo who still has it blaring across the camp while everyone else is trying to sleep.
Just pinch their Bluetooth speaker when they're not looking… they'll probably blame their mates for losing it.
I understood that reference.gif
Na they'll post on ozBargain about it first and let us decide if it was them or not
@apsilon Ok. You win. This would be the greatest invention of all time.
A non violent device to stop people using bloody generators.
How else will I run my Xbox and slushie machine?
Hey. Design me a removeable bed frame that will fit in to the back of whatever SVU I decide to buy in a few years.
It would be good to be adjustable so if the back seats don't fold down the frame will still be flat for my mattress.
Also, storage under the frame would be good too.
Thanks for the suggestion, I probably wont be looking into mattresses any further because of how saturated the market is. I do feel your pain though, so many companies trying and still not getting it quite right
All roof top tents seem to be semi permanent, would be great if there are some light weight, easy to setup roof top camping solution.
I had thought to explore this further because I do feel the struggle of having to pack down the roof tent in order to drive anywhere/launch a boat which is never fun. But came to the conclusion that if you wanted a tent you could leave set up while you use the car - you could just use a regular tent on the ground.
Firewood … there is never any in good campsites. To take it with you is very bulky, heavy and annoying. Usually results in someone having to drive 5 minutes away to collect and return. Sometimes the wood the return with is no good and doesn't burn well, for example; not dry enough, too dead etc.
This is great, I had this down in my notes from interviewing others in person and it does seem that because of park laws most people have to take their own firewood instead of breaking nearby branches/collecting dead wood.
I will be looking into this further and coming up with a storage/transport solution so if you would like to see it let me know
The traditional camp oven… If you are a noobie to campfire cooking like me, your food either cooks too quick and burns from the outside or cooks too slow. Temperature control is extremely difficult. If there was only a way to set the temperature of your camp oven while it is on the coals or fix the temperature that gets through so you know it will only hit a maximum of say 180 degrees etc.
Practice makes perfect. I have started cooking with my camping cast iron at least once every two weeks to better season it and practice new meals.
I also have a property where I can have a fire though.
I undortunately can only get out camping 6 times a year at the most … Most of my camping is also touring so we get in late and leave early.
The tirfor hand winch … I take a hand winch while solo driving because you can winch forwards / backwards / sideways etc. Great concept and almost perfect. Only problems are is that it is sooooo heavy and cumbersome. With a cable and winch you are looking at like 50+kg and they all pack sepsrately so rummaging for 20kg items in the back of your car is difficult. Likewise it is very slow. The other issue with using this solo is that it doesnt allow you to steer and winch at the same time.
I take a high lift Jack instead. Lighter than a tirfor. Call be used to winch in a pinch, but is also useful for other things.
Everyone I camp with agrees they would pay big money for somebody/something that packed everything up on the last morning.
We upgrade from tent to camper trailer to caravan because pack up.
Just drove off and left them behind?
It has been seriously contemplated.
Camper trailer isn't hard if you are organised we did 9.5wks moving every morning bar 3. Wife and i could get up pack up everything including the 13mth old baby and be on the road in under 1hr normally leaving the site between 4 and 6am without disturbing others.
Our problem is that we have a setup for staying put for a week or so, with a big, soft floor camper.
I would like to do some touring in a few years, and am eyeing of the Avan small van\camper for the hassle free setup/pack up.
Our soft floor camper was quick to setup. It was getting everything out, dropping the tent and then putting everything into car/camper that took the effort/time.
I'm sure there will a be a bot for that in the coming century. (That's someone else's job though)
Airbeds. Traditional ones are cold and leak and go flat. Modern closed cell foam is waiter too thin for comfort or too bulky for transport.
Exped megamat is your answer. I have converted and very happy
Storing a wall full of camping gear in my garage and only using it once or twice a year is a problem for me.
This is a great insight. It does seem under considered that on average such a small percentage of the year is spent camping and yet the gear takes up such a massive amount of space.
I will look into this further but perhaps a service-based solution is the answer and not so much a single product.
How would you (or anyone reading this) feel about borrowing camping equipment that had been used by someone else?
Camping can be quite daunting for new people with lists of stuff needed, high upfront costs to buy equipment and a huge array of options and products and stores and subjective reviews etc. How can you make it more accessible for the less experienced with a standardised suite of products for the newcomer?
I'm the type that would buy the same shirt or trousers in 5 different colours for convenience. I would prefer a one-stop range of all equipment I'll need. (Adventure Kings is kind of filling that for now).
5 different colours? La-di-dah, Mr fashion model over here.
I can tell you that this is on it's way to market already - although from what I heard it's more aimed at young'ns (like a "my first camping set")
Your mind is in the right place though, and I will still look into it in future
Not being able to get all of the air out of the inflatables.
Not being able to fold anything up the same way it was originally was.
Not being able to fit anything back into the bag it came with.
Key parts of equipment being made of components that are easily broken and never being able to buy replacement components.
Not being able to stretch tent fly out like it looks on the box.
Cool boxes never ever living up to their claims of keeping the contents cool for a stated length of time.
Having to buy adaptors for different gas cylinders.
Gas lantern mantles breaking.
Tripping over guy ropes.
Firewood bags with massive pieces of wood and no kindling.
Camping stoves that the thread to screw the legs on wears out.
The bulkyness of everything that takes up so much room in the car.
This guy camps. Great list and plenty food for thought there.
Gas lantern mantles breaking.
Solve that one with LED lighting. Bright, low power and modern rechargeable batteries last ages. Haven’t used a gas lantern in 10years of camping trips. Others we have camped with have now no longer take them.
That is an quite an extensive list of interesting insights, I have to ask the question - Is the list of things you enjoy about camping shorter or longer than this one?
Eh?
You asked what we found frustrating or we thought were problems.
Thats what I find frustrating.
I thought you were genuinely trying to find that out.
I wouldnt have bothered commenting if I knew you were going to reply with some passive aggressive response.
Next time just ask us to list what we enjoy and what we dont enjoy.
Theres lots of things I enjoy about camping, I got absolutely no incentive to enlighten you on that now.
MacPac recently discontinued their Bush Cacoon Bivi.
It was popular with adventure / lightweight motorcyclists in the know but completely marketed wrong or rather not marketed at all. It’s a modern day swag minus the bulk, it has a great design and build. However due to the poor marketing I suspect it was a low seller as a very niche product, your average car camper wouldn’t buy one but hikers, bikepackers, adventure motorcycle riders would.
Luckily I got one before they where discontinued and it’s fantastic for overnight motorcycle camps in the bush.
Yeah marketing is everything when launching a product. I do have to say i'm surprised though from macpac.. Most of their existing products are for that hiking market so unsure why they wouldn't give this product a bit more a shove in the right direction.
Either way, thanks for bringing this to my attention
Love what you're doing Feebo, Curious, are you following a Design Thinking approach?
As for insights:
- Pace and portability of camping goods - packing is a drag, which is why many go for camper trailers. Great fun, but super expensive for one which is ready to go. Anything which makes reduces the time from packing to on the road is key.
Keeping wet from dry - wet tent on sleeping gear, wet clothes on dry cloths, wet cookware dripping on gear on your last day after pack up. One idea I'd love to see camp gear which is waterproof and hydrophobic.
Single purpose products - needing to pack a tool or utensil for each job is a pain. Explore the cooking experience and find opportunities to consolidate.
Shower tech still seems limited (and hot water in general) - currently we use a canvas shower (big cylinder with shower head in base). Super dangerous as we boil water on the fire, pour it in with cold water. There are other options, but they're all a bit lame or require heaps of equipment.
Time to set up and pack up - no obvious insight here, but it would be interesting to time campers setting up with various configurations and find opportunities to shave the time down.
Well there's sort of no choice but to follow the design thinking approach when you are a designer.
This was a bit out-of-the-box to ask ozBargain as part of my user research, unsure if it's a method many have taken before but it has definitely unearthed some interesting insights. It's such a publicly available space that i'm sure the first thought for all designers is to protect their IP which is why it's probably not that common.
In regards to your suggestions though
- Waterproofing is already being explored extensively as it is such a common problem for campers
- Cooking utensil that is multipurpose could be an interesting one, i'll see what I come up with there
- There is some interesting ideas for showers out there that just need some more $$ attention
- mskeggs mentioned that process and I will be looking into turning that into a solution in one way or another
Awnings and shelters are becoming more popular. Just look at every 4wd with a awning mounted, me, I camp for long periods so an awning doesn't work for me. I use a tarps and poles, lots of them, I know snowpeak make some fancy tarpaulin as do other companies, but I believe there is room for growtg there.
P.S Those cheapo gazebos can't survive windows and rain.
I read a book years ago that had an inflatable system for everything. Supposedly completely rigid when inflated and to any shape you require. That’s what we need. Inflatable tent, bed, chairs, tables. Everything that lacks down to a small bag but magically inflates to use.
Having said that many moons ago my orients has an inflatable tent. Awesome bit of kit. Hexagonal Igloo shape with six inflatable ribs. Dad would overinflate the spare tyre before the trip, roll the tent out, connect up the hose. Wait a minute or two, stand up the tent and peg it down around the corners. If windy it had guy ropes. Pack up was lay it over, deflate and roll up. All the whole our friends were battling with ropes and poles. But… it was heavy canvas and had no awning etc. was either in or out.
A Deflatable mattress
Biggest problem with inflatable mattresses and many self inflating mattresses is that they often leak or are don't actually provide support.
If you go the other way around like the ALDI/IKEA rolled spring mattresses in a durable cover that you plug into your Dyson vacuum to deflate.
So maybe just a strong reusable vacuum bag.
Rather than keeping it open ended, you should be providing some list of product you are designing so that people give their opinion.