Dispute of False Alarm Fine

LBargain Hunter 89 on 19/09/2019 - 13:40

Hi Ozbargainers, I'd like to hear some advice.
I'm having an argument with my flatmates (sub-tenants) regarding fire alarm fine, I, my wife and my 3 yo boy are sharing the apartments with another couple.

2 weeks ago the girl was cooking and made an excessive amount of smoke in the living room, I was shocked and by reflect opened the balcony door and our apartment door then it triggered on the fire alarm system in the whole floor where we live.

Question 1, who is responsible for the fine?
They are blaming me who opened the door then it made the alarm rang.

I've called legal centre and Fair Trading but they couldn't help me out, justification is that they're not in my rental agreement, it's only me and my wife who signed the agreement (they're only sub-tenants) and there is only a private agreement between us.

It's been 2 weeks since the incident we're still waiting for the actual fine to come out which according to building manager usually takes between 1 or 2 months. BUT they seem to do not want to pay the fine.

Another issue is the guy is planning to go back to his country in mid-October.
Question 2, how can I chase them to pay the fine?

We just went to a police station this morning to get some advice and she seems convinced that it was her fault, so I'm thinking to get her statements for paying the fine.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 19/09/2019 - 13:43
    +31

    "We just went to a police station this morning"

    I bet they were thrilled…..

    • Bargain80 on 19/09/2019 - 14:30

      must be boring day that day at the station

  • brad1-8tsi on 19/09/2019 - 13:46
    +8

    Root cause of the smoke was her cooking. If she hadn't cooked and caused smoke you would not have had to open the door. I'm surprised it didn't trigger the internal alarm in your apartment.

    If she doesn't want to pay the fine then tell her she can't cook anymore. You don't owe them anything so start being a bastard. If they don't like it then give them 24 hours notice and tell them to get an AirBnB for the next month.

    • jjjaar on 19/09/2019 - 13:54
      +9

      I'm surprised it didn't trigger the internal alarm in your apartment.

      Agreed. I’d be checking the batteries!

    • HighAndDry on 19/09/2019 - 14:14
      +5

      If she hadn't cooked and caused smoke you would not have had to open the door

      OP didn't have to open the apartment door anyway, balcony door + windows were available to be opened.

      • brad1-8tsi on 19/09/2019 - 14:22
        +1

        either way, no smoke means that no doors or windows needed to be opened. Not to mention the kitchen exhaust fan.

        • Harold Halfprice on 19/09/2019 - 14:37
          +8

          They're both to blame here.

          Opening the door to vent it out into the hallway is just stupid. What was he trying to achieve? Smoke out everyone else in the building?

        • HighAndDry on 19/09/2019 - 15:33
          +1

          True, but strictly speaking (?), OP's actions were what directly set off the smoke alarm. The sub-tenant causing the smoke itself didn't set off the alarms until OP opened the apt door (which wasn't necessary).

      • Bargain80 on 19/09/2019 - 14:32
        +5

        kind of agree.
        there will be a smoke detector in the hallway. OP should just open the window & balcony door.
        So OP should just split the cost with the flatmate.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/09/2019 - 11:50

      Root cause of the smoke was her cooking

      Root cause is OP sub-letting without landlord's approval. No landlord's approval = no sub-letting = no tenant causing smoke while cooking= no setting off fire alarm

      You don't owe them anything so start being a bastard

      They are subsidising OP's rent. Start being a bastard and they'll move out without notice and OP can start paying full rent, assuming they don't report OP to the RE for illegally sub-letting the apartment on their way out and get OP evicted.

      Edit: I feel for OP. The best thing to do moving forward is to get everyone on the lease agreement, rather than sub-letting, and to choose your co-tenants wisely.

  • MrHyde on 19/09/2019 - 13:53
    +15

    It may not be that clear cut.

    In a lot of apartments that I have stayed, there are warning signs stating that if you are cooking smoky food; do not open the door to the common area as that would cause the alarms to go off and you would be responsible for the subsequent call out fees.

    The rental agreement is in your name, so you are legally liable for all fines. How you pass that onto the sub-tenants is upto you - I'm assuming you have no rental or sublet agreement in place with them? In which case, do as brad1-8tsi says - give them 24 hours notice to pay up or leave.

  • The Professional on 19/09/2019 - 13:57
    +20

    I would say you are to blame.

    You should know not open the apartment door to get rid of smoke and to only open balcony door / windows.

  • ColstonAUS on 19/09/2019 - 14:11
    +8

    Both to blame, she caused the smoke obviously and you set it off by opening the apartment door which you should have thought through before doing, split the bill down the middle, fair is fair.

    • vikvance on 19/09/2019 - 14:46
      +1

      I agree with this.

      In our building, the management has specifically instructed residents NOT to open external doors if there is smoke from cooking. Otherwise, the building alarms will go off, the fire brigade will be called & there'll be a fine.

      So, in OP's case, both parties are partially to blame. The one who caused the excessive smoke from cooking and the one opened the external door and set off the alarm.

  • HighAndDry on 19/09/2019 - 14:13
    +10

    by reflect opened the balcony door and our apartment door then it triggered on the fire alarm system in the whole floor where we live.

    So you caused it? Pay up.

  • Harold Halfprice on 19/09/2019 - 14:33
    +14

    You opened the door to the apartment which set off the alarm. You can't completely absolve yourself of any blame. Trying to vent the smoke into the rest of building is just stupid.

    Split the fine down the middle and call it a day. You both clearly (profanity) up.

    I can't actually believe you took it to the police…

  • spackbace on 19/09/2019 - 14:34
    +7

    Legal centre, fair trading and the cops… Holy shit you really don't like them do you?!

    • pyramid on 19/09/2019 - 14:58
      +1

      I guess this is troll post….OP - did you not check with fire dept?

    • brad1-8tsi on 19/09/2019 - 15:02

      I think he's trying to avoid direct confrontation and hoping someone "in authority" will do it.

  • Davo1111 on 19/09/2019 - 14:50
    +4

    You're the lease owner, you're 100% responsible as you incur the debt.

    As far as the incident blame, i think it's a civil matter, and IF it went to court, it wouldnt surprise me as being 50/50*. Considering you havent actually got a debt yet, you can't really make them pay for a non existent debt.

    *this is opinion, not fact

    Just like a car. The vehicle owner is on the hook for red lights/speeding fines, unless they nominate someone else. As far as I can see here, the nomination is a civil issue.

    Summary:

    You VS Fire brigade = your responsibility
    You VS subtenant = civil.

  • dasher86 on 19/09/2019 - 14:54

    There's no agreement between you and the sub tenant.
    If you don't want to pay for any of the fine kf which I think you should pay for at least half.
    Tell them to pay or kick them out straight away.

  • hikaru78 on 19/09/2019 - 14:59
    +6

    i was under the impression it wasnt a fine but a call out fee the fire department charges.

  • garetz on 19/09/2019 - 15:28
    +1

    Ask them to pay the fine, if they refuse, ask them to leave, simple.

  • Randxyz123 on 19/09/2019 - 16:03
    +3

    Couple of things

    1) It’s a call out fee of approx $2500 per truck not a fine.

    2) It’s nothing to do with fair trading or the police. No idea why you went to them.

    3) Will you definitely get charged?

    4) Did your apartment alarm go off ? If it didn’t there can’t have been that much smoke

    the girl was cooking and made an excessive amount of smoke in the living room

    Cooking what ? Did she have the extractor fan on?

    Why did you open the main door to the apartment and not the windows and balcony doors?

    Since it is partly your fault for opening the door and setting off the alarm and partly her fault for causing the issue, I’d say just go halves.

  • Seraphin7 on 19/09/2019 - 16:16

    Seriously?

    No authority is going to be in anyway interested in this squabble. Assuming the fine gets issued to you* then the issuing authority will stop there, end of story. They're not going to attempt to arrange 50/50, entertain he said, she said discussions, etc. The police aren't going to get involved here.

    If you want to pursue it, beyond simply asking them to cough up some share of it, you're off to court to pursue it as a civil matter. Is that really what you want to do?

    *One way around this may be to simply not pay the "fine". Any "fine" will probably be levied on the building. The building will then seek to pass the costs onto the owner by way of relevant by-laws. The owner will then seek to pass the costs onto you by way of your rental agreement. It might be a long shot, but if your rental agreement does not cover this situation, you may be able to avoid the "fine".

    Caveat emptor … this may result in "difficulties" with your landlord/agent over the remainder of your lease.

  • dizzle on 19/09/2019 - 16:32
    +13

    Next post:
    I've been evicted for sub-letting my apartment. What do I do?

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 19/09/2019 - 16:41
    +8

    The big question is, do you have permission to sub-lease?

    By making a big deal of this, you could be shooting yourself in the foot. In that, you've now made it obvious you're sub-leasing without consent (if that's what you're doing).

  • Meeb on 19/09/2019 - 17:03

    It's your apartment (per rental agreement) so you're responsible for any false fire alarm callouts that are related to your apartment. Sort the rest out among yourselves. No authority is going to be bothered to care/assist your dispute with your sub-leased tenants - your best bet would be to do a civil case via magistrates to recover any monies but that may be lengthy and somewhat costly.

  • yellowfever on 19/09/2019 - 21:54
    +1

    Did your tenant get to finish her meal at least? It may have been her last of that dish. Quite a shame. Well at least your neighbours got to have a sniff of it too.
    She could share that recipe to your neighbours too. Imagine that, the whole level cooks the same dish at the same time.

  • Quantumcat on 19/09/2019 - 23:17

    You're responsible as you are on the lease.
    Ask them to pay - if they don't, kick them out and keep any bond they've paid on the meantime to help pay the fine.
    Easy.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/09/2019 - 09:23

      if they don't, kick them out

      The disgruntled ex-tenants then report OP for sub-letting without the landlord's permission and he gets evicted and blacklisted.

      keep any bond they've paid on the meantime to help pay the fine.

      Did OP take a bond from them? Was the bond lodged with the relevant authority? If not, they can report OP who will have to return the money AND pay a fine. I believe it's up to $2200 in NSW.

      Easy

      No, not really.

      • Quantumcat on 21/09/2019 - 11:00

        They can report them anyway. Not adding any risk by asking them to pay.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/09/2019 - 11:45

          Not adding any risk by asking them to pay.

          They are more likely to report to RE and Fair Trading if they feel hard done by OP. Asking them nicely and being willing to take whatever they offer would be the way to go. I wouldn't push too hard.

  • Jade81 on 20/09/2019 - 10:30

    1. Charges, if they're not on your lease I'd say the charges go to you. If you can't agree who pays you'd have to go to the small claims court but if they're leaving in October that won't work. Best you can probably arrange if a charge shows up is 50/50 BUT only if they're still here when the charges show up.

    2. Eviction. I don't think anyone can advise you without seeing your rental agreement. I'd get legal aid or equivalent to look at it.

    3. I'm sorry but never never never let someone live in your house without a written agreement between the two of you covering rent, notice, fines, damages. And anything you can possibly think of including eviction etc. Witnessed too. Please see this as a learning experience. If it is n t in writing it's not enforceable.

  • Kris P on 20/09/2019 - 10:37
    +2

    they're not in my rental agreement

    They owe you nothing. Suck it up and move on.

  • markathome on 20/09/2019 - 13:56

    I tend to agree with the above posts that the best you're getting out of this situation with is a 50/50 split and your actions aren't going to foster a happy sharehouse. The good news is based on my reading you're only looking at $1,600 fee and there's a chance it could be waived because 'one false alarm within a 60 day period will not be charged; subsequent false alarms which occur within 60 days of the first alarm will be charged'. https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=77

    Most OzBargainers facing an unexpected thousand-dollar loss will grieve and worry about the situation. The trick is to not make it worse; that approach does not seem to have been followed in this case. So remember, whatever your loss, other people have probably lost much more in their lives. As Tony Abbott once said, "$@#@ happens".

  • boomramada on 20/09/2019 - 14:11

    perfect judge judy case :)

  • 82norm on 20/09/2019 - 21:42

    What was the meal being cooked?

  • [Deactivated] on 21/09/2019 - 08:19
    +1

    If I've read your Op correctly, you're illegally sub-letting to this couple. It doesn't matter who's responsible for setting off the fire alarm, you'll have to pay for it.
    I would also be nice to your current tenants as they don't have much to lose and could very easily report you to your RE for sub-letting which, worst case scenario, could see you getting evicted and blacklisted.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join