My partner and I wish to purchase a new Hybrid car most likely SUV style. Wanting to spend under $50,000.00. We have test drove the Toyota Rav4 but the wait time currently is a year and we were not prepared to give them a deposit for a year without knowing the final price. We also recently test drove the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which my partner has doubts on, and I loved it but again there is a wait time to get what we want around about 4 months.
Any advice or comments is appreciated.
Toyota Rav4
without knowing the final price.
How do you not know the final price? It's advertised, and unlikely it will change (it just went up $350 due to the currency).
I heard it was going up 1000 on the Rav but that was not confirmed but I was mostly referring to the trade price changing as the months go by.
Nope, no word of it going up
As to trade-in, well that depends how old it is. But at least you get to drive it around for the 6-12 month wait
Hey Spaceback, has the price already gone up by $350? I have one on order but haven't been contacted about the price rise yet so hoping I got away with not paying the difference lol.
@maybeamacy: Yeah it has, dealer might have just copped it
For PR reasons it's better to just cop it and try to get a 10/10 survey
@spackbace: Are those stupid surveys in car dealerships too? You just know they implement them to hassle staff instead of actually introduce changes.
@spackbace: Such BS. Some people probably give 5/10 as they think that's "good" and the salesperson cops it. Others might give 7/10 because of factors completely unrelated to the salesperson.
Seems like two options. Wait, or don’t buy a hybrid SUV new.
What is wrong with the outlander? I’d be going for that becuase you can plug it in and run on sparks for short trips. Ie commuting using no petrol.
I don't see the issue with the price. When you put down your deposit you sign a contract on the price you're going to have to pay them to collect the car. That should be the price shouldn't it? What's the point of a deposit and contract on a car if the dealer can make up the price on delivery?
Conditions of any vehicle contract are that if the price goes up, they can pass that onto the purchaser, or the purchaser can then bail on the contract if they so wish.
We've just had a price increase on a few vehicles, and we've actually shouldered the additional cost where possible (some went up around $500 = $500 less gross in the deal).
Mitsubishi
+Plug in Hybrid
-Expensive Services
Toyota
+Features
-Plug in Hybrid
https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-comparisons/toyota-rav4-crui…
Toyota isn't a plugin hybrid, its just a hybrid
Didn’t see the + and -?
Subsidised rental option? I think this is a great win:win for both frustrated consumers and frustrated dealers alike.
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-rav4-hybrid-wai…
approx $680. per month rent seems a bit steep to me, considering my current car does not lose that per month in value. At least I hope not.
Cr-v hybrid, possibly before the end of 2022
https://www.drive.com.au/news/honda-confirms-hybrid-return-1…
At the moment it seems like you have a two horse race (outlander vs rav4) or really just one option given the rav4 wait list.
How long will it take to recoup the additional cost of the hybrid in fuel savings?
How long will it take to recoup the additional cost of the hybrid in fuel savings?
That is a very good question. I read somewhere dated back in 2014 that someone claimed it would take 10 years to recoup the costs as the Outlander back then was overpriced and petrol was under 1.30 p/l. Not sure about 2019 pricing.
Hybrid RAV4 has a bigger engine, so makes the comparison kinda difficult on fuel savings alone (it has noticeably more power and torque)
On the RAV4, it would take 112,500km to make up the cost difference. But again, it isn't about the sheer fuel saving differences.
What’s your time frame for purchase? If it’s soonish your preferences (hybrid suv) are quite limiting. Actually, I think Kia or Hyundai might be launching some cars with an electric motor, but they may have been sedans.
Seems like business is good in the car industry (as per wait list), so much for a retail slow down.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-06/car-dealers-bearing-t…
1 year wait for a rav4??
I can make a baby in 9 months. How can a car take longer?
Can you make a battery?
Besides a supra, the only Toyota's I will be seen in is a taxi or hearse
demand.
My ex waited 14months for a Mondeo diesel once (massive stuff up onso many levels).
Golf R was 12 months wait (more?) when first released. Gti was similar back in the Mk5 era
Was in the same boat as you, OP. Looked at buying a RAV4 Cruiser Hybrid, but the wait times are crazy.
Went for a RAV4 Edge instead. Averages 7.5-8.0L/100km, so roughly 2L/100km more than what the Hybrid would use, which doesn't bother me. I do mostly highway driving anyway, where a hybrid is not necessarily that fuel efficient. Engine in Edge is same as Hybrid (2.5L A25A-FKS) but the hybrid version is mechanically detuned for economy.
It also has a conventional torque converter 8 speed auto and mechanical on-demand AWD, as opposed to CVT and the AWD Hybrid's electric rear motor respectively. Can't say I'm a huge fan of CVTs (hybrid or not), so the conventional auto makes it a nicer drive. The torque vectoring works beautifully when doing steep mountain climbs with sharp corners both wet and dry.
Pretty happy with it so far. Added bonus with the Edge is it's the only variant in all the RAV4 range to have ventilated seats and a panoramic roof option.
There's a few Edges in stock at the various GC dealers.
Oh, did slightly consider the Outlander PHEV, but knocked it on the head for age (current shape nearly 8 years old), crud 2.0L engine and massive jump in both price/weight over petrol variants.
How well do the ventilated seats work?
Are they noisy?
They work fairly well if on the higher settings. Although they have 3 manual settings, they're actually adaptive and are linked to the climate fan speed. If the seats are set to high with the climate speed on about 3 or 4, they're fairly quiet. If the climate fan speed is set to maximum, the seat fans ramp right up as well and certainly make a bit of noise.
Another consideration if you're looking at other alternatives is that some of the newcomers are what's referred to as "mild hybrids" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mild_hybrid) so not all hybrids are "real/full" hybrids.
With a real full EV (electric vehicle) virtually around the corner I wouldn't waste money in a hybrid.
A Hybrid brings the worst of both worlds: still uses fuel to move and an ICE engine to constantly service and it has all expensive electronics of an EV.
It may have "unlimited" range but you are lugging around too much of old tech.
Get a normal ICE vehicle now. Even diesel.
Replace it in 4 or 5 years when EVs are more accessible and available (dealerships).
Depends on the infrastructure re: EV. How many people have solar panels + battery storage?
What's wrong with owning a hybrid for 4-5yrs and then seeing what the market is like? Own it while under warranty and cps then flip it
all expensive electronics of an EV.
😂
The electrical side of a Toyota hybrid system is designed never to be touched, and multiple Prius taxis prove that
Co$t is what is "wrong".
Hybrids are more expensive than ICE
Same with "electronics". Co$t is the problem. Paying for the "electronics" and also paying for an ICE. Double dipping but in the wrong way …
Hybrid typically costs $1500 more than the petrol equivalent.
Wtf is up with your text formatting. Can't possibly take you seriously with that shit.
all expensive electronics of an EV.
If you mean batteries and charger. Any modern IVE vehicle has a multitude of computers and sensors running it, not to mention having to deal with excess heat and significant vibration. EVs are a simpler system overall.
I mean all stuff and EV has … starting with electric motor/s to move the vehicle …
With a hybrid you are paying for them and also for an ICE needing servicing (oil, coolant … the usual)
An electric Kona costs about $20k more than the petrol equivalent.
Yet you're having a whinge about hybrid which costs $1500 more?
What do you drive?
@spackbace: Are you into selling hybrids? Do you have one?
My comments are for the OP to get a cheaper ICE now. Now.
Why so much aggro?
@LFO: @LFO you have a valid point about the cost. Our current vehicle gets terrible fuel consumption but is only 14 months old so trading it for slightly better consumption is not worth it. We were just thinking the Hybrids would make it more worthwhile to trade a new car.
And yes Spackbace sells Toyota's so hope that explains it for you and seems he takes great pride in doing so. laughing out loud! :-)
@Sunshines bright: Thank you for the last clarification!
Now I know why …
Perhaps a hybrid will give you better fuel consumption.
From what I read it is not that great, in particular if most driving is done further than battery range (PHEV) and at night so basically will be running on fuel like any other SUV
But considering upfront buying price and depreciation on that new vehicle might not be a cost effective alternative.
For 2019 I feel a hybrid is too expensive and again full EVs are getting closer and closer. And perhaps that will affect even more the resale value of an old hybrid.
But at the end these are all unknowns. EVs in Europe and China does not mean EVs in Australia.
And you need transport now!
@Sunshines bright: What have you got now and what is ‘terrible fuel consumption’?
Are you sure shelling out on a new car with a big depreciation hit is going to be more economical than just paying a bit more for fuel for a few more years. Also have a look at your driving style and see whether a hybrid will be efficient - is they aren’t much more efficient than a regular car out on the highway, they are better in stop start traffic.
@Euphemistic: it is a Subaru XV but a lemon when it comes to consumption. Avgs about 10.4 but leans more on the higher end. We only drive local so that does not help I am sure. Seldom hit the highways. This car does not give you the total consumption over the lifetime of driving, just based on trip meters and there are 2. And so the per tank consumption tends to be about 11.5 on some tanks (we reset the trip meter each time we fuel). We did do a manual figure ourselves once and it was about 11.8 the one time we did it.
@Sunshines bright: Have you calculated how many KMs you are going to have to do to recover the price difference between your current (depreciated) car, and buying a new one? My guess would be, a hell of a lot. 11l/100 isn't atrocious for a petrol vehicle doing only local driving.
@brendanm: it bothers us, especially since they advertise under 9. I do realize we are not making the best financial decision by trading the car in, it is definitely more about want than need. hehe we also have always wanted a Red vehicle but gave in each time to taking what was in stock so this time we are going to fulfill some wants instead of needs.
@Sunshines bright: Fair enough. Sounds as though your local driving would benefit from the plug in aspect of the outlander. If you do get a RAV4, expect the fuel consumption to be 20% over the listed amount, it may be your driving style. Then again, it might match the listed consumption, in which case you’ll get a pleasant surprise.
@Euphemistic: Our demo hybrid camrys and rav4s have seen fuel economy around 5.3-5.5L/100km. All depends on how it's driven of course. I've had customers that have said they're getting the 4.X fuel economy it's rated to.
@spackbace: Yes spackbace. I’m sure many cars are getting the advertised economy, I haven’t experienced economy figures significantly more than expected in the cars I’ve driven.
I made the point because it might be the drivers style, in which case they will quite possibly use more than the official figure.
@Sunshines bright: How many KMs a year do you do? The tests are done under ideal conditions, the only cars I've seen that come close to it meet their fuel economy ratings are VW/Audi/Skoda.
If you have solar I'd go a plug in, even though I dislike Mitsubishi generally.
@brendanm: We run under 10,000 per year maybe 8.7 . When we had the Honda Civic it met our fuel economy expectations. Rated at 5.8 and we stayed just over 6 most of the time. So going from 6.2 to 12 was a killer to our brain.
@Sunshines bright: $780 odd for civic at $1.50 a litre
$1560 odd for Subaru a year.
Is it worth spending $15000+ to save $800 a year? That's even assuming a high price for fuel, 6l/100 (best case) for civic and 12l/100 (worst case) for subaru.
@brendanm: with the Mitsubishi we would be saving up to 1560. per year according to your calculations??? As it is electric when under 70KPH, which is what we do most days. But again you have a valid point if we were looking to save money.
@Sunshines bright: You still have to pay for power unless you have solar, and a way to store it (assuming you use the car during the day). Even if you have solar, you are foregoing your FIT, so that is money "lost" technically.
I can only assume you are looking to save money on fuel, as that seems to be your main gripe with the car.
@Sunshines bright: Haha, if you don't like the car and can afford it, buy another one. I'm personally not a fan of the xv either. Don't get too hing up on the economy if you aren't doing too many KMs, get something you actually like so you don't end up in the same place in a year
😉. And the colour!
Car wrapping m'lady … a deep red vinyl car wrap is all you need.
And easy on the accelerator for the other little insignificant and almost irrelevant(versus color!!) issue of fuel consumption. :-)
Power generation in Australia mainly comes from coal. Only a small percentage comes from wind, solar, and hydro.
Unless we start building nuclear power plants quickly full EV is still going blue sky wish list.
China is the biggest EV market because they have 50 nuclear power plants and building more in the next 5 years. China wants to reduce dependence of coal power generation.
So who wants several nuclear power plants in their backyard…..anyone?
I think you are forgetting about Solar Panels. The ones you see in virtually every roof.
Also small "container size" nuclear reactors power plants are the future. That reduces grid size and then cost.
Don't be concerned, be informed.
A small Fukushima and Chernobyl in your own backyard, yeah right its not going to happen.
Interesting news of today:
Qatar has signed an agreement with French energy giant Total and Japan's Marubeni to build a solar power plant capable of producing 800 megawatts, a tenth of country's peak energy demand, according to the country's energy minister.
The Al Kharsaah plant near the capital Doha comes at a cost of 1.7 billion riyals ($467m) and is expected to be complete by 2022 when the country hosts the FIFA World Cup.
Imagine 800 megawatts of solar in Australia.
And only USD$467m.
What are we waiting for !!!!!!
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV