Bought Car, Found out It Was Written off, Can't Transfer Ownership. Suggestion Required

gamesnepal on 02/01/2020 - 18:08

Hello Everyone,

I was redirected here to post this for support.

I am an international student in Sydney, Australia and I happened to purchase a car from an individual seller. It was for around A$13000 from the western part of Sydney, two months ago. At that time I didn't know about PPSR. So, I just paid the amount via bank transfer, got the car and a handwritten receipt to prove the transaction. The car was registered in Queensland.

Later when I went to register the car in an NSW service center, the lady over the counter told me that she couldn't transfer and register the car in NSW because it was recently written off. At that time I didn't even know what "Written Off" meant for a car. I checked the PPSR after it and found out that the car had a repairable written-off assigned in Victoria in late 2018. It was inspected in Queensland in late 2019 where it got a QLD rego.

To register in NSW, I had to do an inspection on the car at a Vehicle Identification Inspection Unit (VIIU) in NSW.

I did it and the guy there reported, "Vehicle had a complete sectional repair on the rear by replacing the whole rear cut. Owner to provide manufacturer repair guidelines which shows that the sectional repair conducted is an acceptable method. Owner to provide from a licensed repairer, a structural integrity report."

Now, I've been to car dealers and panel beaters, and none of them knew how to provide what the VIIU was asking for.

I talked to solicitors via LawAccess and they drew out the conclusion that "There is an implied promise that the car ought to be transferable". They suggested me to talk to the seller, send him a letter of demand asking for the total refund and return the car after we negotiate on a price. The individual car seller doesn't negotiate much and once mentioned that he could give the amount totaling to the scrap value of the car.

This is my situation right now. I have a car that I paid for but the car isn't in my name. I can't drive it because it hasn't passed the inspection. The Police don't handle such cases because it is a civil matter. Shouldn't the car at least be in my name? If I pay for something, it should be in my name legally. I can't even sell it for scrap because it is not in my name.

The only step that I can take now is to hire a solicitor and take the seller to court if necessary. But the costs regarding it might be high, I have no idea whether it would offset the amount I would get back if the car is returned and refunded. I am not even sure where I'd have to go to hire solicitors (except maybe LawAccess?).

Please help me with any advice or anything you think that I should do.

I am sorry if this is the wrong place to post my issue. I think that bushfires need more attention and they are far more devastating than my personal problems.

Thanks

Automotive

Comments

  • PissLUR on 02/01/2020 - 18:16

    can you do the vehicle ownership in QLD?

    • bmerigan on 04/01/2020 - 21:34

      This is my thought too

  • Brooklyn on 02/01/2020 - 18:24
    +3

    Contact this guy Athol Mullen is an Auto engineer and certifier. Awesome guy he is located on the central coast comes to Sydney regularly. https://www.facebook.com/MullenAutomotiveEngineering/

  • garetz on 02/01/2020 - 18:27
    +1

    You need a solicitor, if you are lucky you not only will get your money back, but you may be able to get the court to grant you the costs of the solicitor from the seller.

    Talk to a solicitor asap.

    • Hybroid on 02/01/2020 - 18:34
      +6

      Guilty.

      • spackbace on 02/01/2020 - 19:35
        +8

        I see, you pointed them here because this site is the #1 resource for legal and automotive issues, so why not?!

        • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 23:29

          Yep, ask the salesman or the boat mechanic… The top two picks on my list… :P

    • brendanm on 02/01/2020 - 19:22
      +3

      If anyone wants an autograph just send me a pm

      • Muzeeb on 02/01/2020 - 20:01

        You have a pm

      • dasher86 on 02/01/2020 - 22:46

        How would you like scomo transported?

        • brendanm on 04/01/2020 - 13:44

          By helicopter of course, only peasants travel any other way.

  • brendanm on 02/01/2020 - 18:46
    +1

    Afaik the seller does not have to disclose it was written off, but cannot lie if asked, which would be near impossible to prove unless written anyway. Onus is on the buyer to do the checks.

    What sort of car? Depending on how much of the rear was replaced, it may be completely fine, also depends on who did the work. From memory, the Viv station in Queensland should have all the receipts for the parts and the work done on the vehicle to pass the inspection there.

    You may have to cut your losses and sell it in Qld for next to nothing, or try and register it there.

  • Sergeant Salami on 02/01/2020 - 19:25
    +4

    I'm not sure if I spend all day browsing CarFAILS or OzBargain?

  • whooah1979 on 02/01/2020 - 19:43
    +3

    a handwritten receipt to prove the transaction.
    If I pay for something, it should be in my name legally.

    The owner of the vehicle and the registered operator can be two different entities. This case you are the owner but not the registered operator.

    Did you lodge an NOD in QLD?

    • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 23:33

      Was going to say something similar. So long as OP has a receipt for payment, then OP is the owner.

  • xuqi on 02/01/2020 - 20:47

    ""Vehicle had a complete sectional repair on the rear by replacing the whole rear cut."

    This is similar to what was done to OP's car:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6mLhRM550

    Years ago I knew people who carried out such repairs in their accredited workshops, using spot welding equipment (far better than traditional welding methods). Who know what method was used to repair your car.

    You'll need to find someone in NSW who is accredited to carry out testing & provide the required paperwork to register the car.

    Alternatively, you'll need to register & sell the car in QLD (may be unpractical for you), with most likely a sizeable loss.

  • Bargainaholic on 02/01/2020 - 22:41

    Move to QLD

  • Candour on 03/01/2020 - 19:41

    if you paid by bank transfer, advise the bank and dispute the transaction with your reasons. this page would be good. if you bought by credit card visa or master you may have a case also for fraud. ACL may have been breached in terms of fitness for purpose and merchantable quality as your outs. speak to consumer affairs so that this person is made to attend court ultimately. not about winning a case, just about taking all avenues so that he is inconvenienced and needs to respond.

  • TheBilly on 04/01/2020 - 09:39

    This is unethical. I was in the same boat as a seller. Bought a car drove it for 5 years went to sell it and the new purchaser told me it had been written off after purchasing as he did the check late. I asked him if he was prepared to keep it, he wasn't so I refunded his money and sold the car again advertising it's write off status at a discounted price. New buyer was happy with the deal and the terms.

    Point of the story is the seller is being unethical and seeing what they can get away with. If it was me, I'd visit him knock on his door and demand he refund the money without a lawyers certificate or anything. If that doest work, allocate 2-3 thousand to taking them to court as you are loosing 13 thousand anyway whats another 2-3 thousamd to ensure you explored every option.

    • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 09:48

      Repairable write-off are legal in Qld. It is up to the buyer to check if the vehicle may be registered in their state.

      • TheBilly on 04/01/2020 - 10:08
        +1

        Doesn't mean you withold the information

        • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 10:14
          +1

          The seller isn't required to disclose unless buyer asks.

          • fullmetal on 15/01/2020 - 11:59

            @whooah1979: I once asked the seller if it is written off, the seller said no. But when I when I check the PPSR boom it was written off. Always do a PPSR don't believe in the seller.

    • brendanm on 04/01/2020 - 13:46

      The seller could have had no idea. If they didn't do a ppsr when they purchased the car, and it was written off before them, there is nothing flagged when you transfer in Qld.

  • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 09:57
    +1

    Welcome to Australia, OP. This country will eat you whole if you're not careful. This is your first lesson - buying a car is caveat emptor. Buyer beware. You need to do checks yourself before you pay for something. I'm not sure how this works in other countries but it's the standard process for buying from a private seller here. You really should've sought advice on how this works before going thru a private transaction in a country you're not even from.

    Second lesson - you probably won't have much success in getting your money back. If you can register the car, try to do so. Otherwise, I'd go back to the seller (if you know where he lives) and confront him.

    Your last option is to crack open a beer (preferably stubby, but long neck will also do) and drink your woes away and accept that you were screwed over. It's the Australian way.

    • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 10:36
      +1

      Welcome to Australia, OP. This country will eat you whole if you're not careful.

      That applies to any and every country. You must apply due diligence and be proactive.

      • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 11:54

        Some countries don't have as much of a cut-throat culture as ours. People are generally more trustworthy and less inclined to screw over their brethren in ethnocentric nations. Poles don't like to screw over fellow Poles. Serbs don't like to screw over fellow Serbs. Japanese don't like to screw over fellow Japanese. But Aussies seem to be very fond of screwing over their fellow countrymen.

        Don't know where OP is from but if he hasn't learned this by now I can only assume it's much of an issue in his home country.

        • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 12:02

          Serbs don't like to screw over fellow Serbs. Israelis don't like to screw over fellow Israelis. But Aussies seem to be very fond of screwing over their fellow countrymen.

          You don't know if the scammer is 'Aussie'. You can also be Asian, Israeli, English etc etc and be an Aussie.

          But Aussies seem to be very fond of screwing over their fellow countrymen.

          But OP is an international student…

          • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 12:11

            @Ughhh:

            You don't know if the scammer is 'Aussie'. You can also be Asian, Israeli, English etc etc and be an Aussie.

            Yup, and that's the unspoken catch of multiculturalism. There is no unified culture for people to share. They all come from different values and beliefs so there's less of a reason to trust each other. Whereas countries with monoculturalism or concentrated ethnicities this can be less of an issue.

            But OP is an international student…

            No way the seller would know that. If someone comes over to buy your car, you can safely assume that they're probably Australian citizens. Tourists don't often buy cars.

            And since so many of our residents can't even speak English properly, it's impossible to distinguish who's an Aussie and who's just visiting.

            • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 12:16

              @SlavOz:

              No way the seller would know that.

              Their overseas driver licence is a dead giveaway.

            • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 12:19

              @SlavOz: Many temporary residents drive Uber and deliver for Menulog, Deliveroo, etc, with their own vehicles.

            • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 12:21
              +1

              @SlavOz: In which country would you trust everyone 100% and not apply due diligence?

              • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 12:24
                -1

                @Ughhh: Probably those countries where they kill someone for praying to a different god.

                • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 12:29

                  @whooah1979:

                  Probably those countries where they kill someone for praying to a different god.

                  Sounds like a place where you are basically forced to pokerface 'trust' everyone and wouldn't dare question or doubt the person, otherwise your dead.

                • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 12:39
                  -1

                  @whooah1979:

                  Probably those countries where they kill someone for praying to a different god.

                  Kind of. If you're a Muslim in the Middle East, you tend to get treated well by the fellow Muslims who consider you one of their kind. The Christians are persecuted so they tend to stick together and help each other out. The point is people are less likely to screw over others who they consider one of them, either on a national, ethnic, or religious level.

                  Better example would be Slavic or Euro countries who are doing everything possible to maintain their cultural unity. You're less likely to get screwed over buying a second hand car in say Hungary or Poland if you're an ethnic local of that country.

              • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 12:30

                @Ughhh: Never said that. I simply implied that in some countries you don't have to practice as much due diligence as there is less of a probability of being screwed over.

                Many places, due diligence when buying a car would be to ask your grandma what the guys family history is like. If it's a good family - you can safely buy the car. Whereas in Australia due diligence means extensive paperwork, inspections, contracts, etc etc.

                • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 12:40

                  @SlavOz: So OP should have asked his grandma?

                  Have you heard of the saying "never lend to family or friends"?

                  In some countries, OP would visit the scammer or send someone over and take his left hand as payment and get away with it. I wouldn't mess with anyone when thats known amongst locals.

                  • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 12:45

                    @Ughhh:

                    I wouldn't mess with anyone when thats known amongst locals.

                    Well there you go. You admit that screwing someone over in these countries comes with far more detterents that screwing someone over in Australia. That's my point.

                    I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm simply pointing it out. Some countries have different customs and social structures that make it less likely to be screwed over. OP's country probably doesn't have a big issue with people being screwed over when buying second hand cars, which probably explains why he had no idea what to do when he bought one in Australia. I see this problem a lot with immigrants from my country. They have no idea that Australia works very differently to back home.

                    • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 13:21

                      @SlavOz:

                      Well there you go. You admit that screwing someone over in these countries comes with far more detterents that screwing someone over in Australia

                      Im curious on what the crime rate is. Should be incredibly low or non-existent then, if locals don't mess with locals and there are always more locals than tourist.

                      Would you screw over an Aussie bikie or someone who looks really rough?

                      • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 13:32

                        @Ughhh: We're not talking about criminals though. OP's private seller is not a criminal and did nothing illegal. You need to compare apples to apples. Innocent, law-abiding people to other innocent, law-abiding people.

                        • Ughhh on 04/01/2020 - 13:41

                          @SlavOz:

                          OP's private seller is not a criminal and did nothing illegal.

                          So if scamming is legal, then there's no issue here and perhaps a mod should just end the thread.

                          • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 14:36

                            @Ughhh: Well, no. The seller did something immoral, so the OP is asking how he can fix the situation (legally or otherwise). This thread definitely has a place. Morality and legality are separate things.

                            Last I checked, buying a car is buyer beware. The seller here did nothing illegal so he is not a criminal.

        • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 12:02

          They prefer ethnic cleansing.

          • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 12:18

            @whooah1979: Precisely. If they're willing to kill to preserve their ethnic unity, they probably really care about their own kind and would not screw them over.

            • whooah1979 on 04/01/2020 - 12:22

              @SlavOz: Did you just justify ethnic killings as being better than ripping someone off?

              • SlavOz on 04/01/2020 - 12:25

                @whooah1979: No. I'm simply pointing out the nature of the human condition. Ethnic cleansing no longer happens in most countries but the history of it means that people will always have strong feelings of unity for their own kind.

                Then again, Australia could be the exception as we're not exactly innocent when it comes to ethnic cleansing either…

  • boku on 06/01/2020 - 00:35

    Just out of curiousity, this wasn't a BMW M2 was it? There was a really cheap M2 for sale a month ago, with exactly the same situation as described.

  • maybeamacy on 06/01/2020 - 02:57

    I don't think OP is going to bother replying lol.

  • j0hnd0e on 07/01/2020 - 02:37

    From what I can remember, the seller does not have to disclose that it is written off, unless you asked. If you didn't ask, then I doubt your case would hold up in court. Also it's your words against his.

  • necca on 09/12/2022 - 16:56
    +1

    @gamesnepal Quite awkwardly I'm stuck in the exact same situation, in fact, I suspect we've been scammed by the same guy. Can we have a chat?

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