Is It Ethical to Ask Someone Who Just Came Back from China Recently to Not Come to Work/School?

Taro Milk Tea on 28/01/2020 - 11:18
Last edited 29/01/2020 - 16:01

Corona virus is definitely a big issue at the moment. It also creates some ethical issues among many of us.

My mate told me today in his workplace, his colleague who just came back from China were "confronted" by her peers asking her to leave the office immediately because they are afraid she might have the virus.
Long story short, she left from the office, obviously not in a good term.

This makes me thinking, is it ethical to do so? At the same time, the fear is understandable. But if I were that person, I would be kind of offended even though I know I might be just fine…

What do you think guys? Is it normal and ethical to do so?

Poll Options

  • 804
    Yes
  • 190
    No
Health & Beauty

Comments

  • JetLi on 28/01/2020 - 14:23
    +1

    Whats the point? It's not like they are actually quarantined in relation to other parts of their everyday life. They still going to come in contact with people when they go shopping, eat out…

  • rgr on 28/01/2020 - 14:40
    +1

    all this virus shit is because they sell meat out in the open air and store it poorly

    • jelko on 28/01/2020 - 14:48
      +1

      Hygiene and China is mutually exclusive.

    • HighAndDry on 28/01/2020 - 16:07
      +3

      Hahahaha it's far far worse. They were keeping live wild animals (bats, civets, snakes, etc) in cages to be sold to be eaten. SARS started (suspected) because faeces containing the virus left on the ground dried up and became aerosolised.

      • rgr on 28/01/2020 - 18:42
        +1

        yeah this

      • jelko on 28/01/2020 - 21:20
        -4

        Eating bats? Serves them right. What disgusting creatures.

        • fredk1000 on 28/01/2020 - 22:45

          Which is?

        • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 06:23
          +1

          no papa

        • BluPlox on 29/01/2020 - 10:24
          +12

          Putting aside the main topic for a bit here;

          Jeiko, don't be such a naive, ignorant, arrogant twat.

          Think about it.

          French cuisine includes snails. Just one sole example. Unusual edibles are common across the entire planet.

          Now, personally, eating farm livestock, seafood (you DO know that a heap of them dwell near the seafloor, where they dine on pretty much anything that settles right?), ain't that much different to me.

          My own diet/lifestyle differs from most these days, but people who choose to eat meat and get repulsed and use phrases like 'disgusting creatures' to describe anyone that includes bats in their diverse list of animal/fish edibles, in a world where eating pigeons ain't off the plate, is plain hypocritical .

  • Archi on 28/01/2020 - 14:43
    +3

    is It Ethical to Ask Someone Who Just Came Back from China Recently to Not Come to Work/School?

    yes absolutely yes

    in the context in which OP described above

    absolutely NO

  • AdosHouse on 28/01/2020 - 15:07
    +4

    Is it okay to do? Yes

    By being confronted by workmates and told to go home? No

    Manager should have listened to the concerns of the other staff, pulled the guy aside and talked to him in private, payed leave for a week.

  • jelko on 28/01/2020 - 15:08
    +2

    Is it ethical to possibly expose your workmates to a deadly disease?

  • charlestbao on 28/01/2020 - 15:18
    +6

    Most of my friends who just came back from China, whether been to WUHAN or not, are doing two-week quarantine at home voluntarily. Some are not being paid.
    On a personal note, I would have done the same instead of receiving this vacuum of people around me at work.

  • Bargain80 on 28/01/2020 - 15:19

    it's fine to feel worry.
    But it's wrong to confront any individual directly and ask them not to come.

    They should have brought this up with the management/HR.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 28/01/2020 - 15:29

    I am going to deliberately go to China so I can have a few weeks off work (use some of the hundred days of sick leave I have left).

    • Archi on 28/01/2020 - 15:41
      +4

      why would you risk going to china… just tell your boss you had a relative come over and now you feel ill

    • jelko on 28/01/2020 - 15:55
      -5

      Your boss would probably fire you for voluntarily entering a country where a deadly outbreak if present.

      I mean, clearly anybody who would do that is mentally deficient and is not fit to hold a position in a company.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 28/01/2020 - 16:03

        Wow, guess I'll speak to my lawyer if I got the sack ;)

        I have an exemplary work history and have only taken two sick days in the last 4 years, and about ten days in total for the last decade.

        I know who will win, my work has no right to dictate where I travel in my time off.

  • weee on 28/01/2020 - 16:23

    why offended? enjoy your week off! I would be happily dancing out of the office

    • Archi on 28/01/2020 - 16:42
      +3

      the level of offence would be how it was articulated to you to take the week off.

      imagine stopped at reception handed a bag of your belongings and told to leave in front of packed foyer in the most attention seeking way. I would say the level of offence is pretty high.

      on the other hand being called into your bosses office and told to take the rest of the week off and not to worry its all paid for, then I think you would of happily agreed.

      • weee on 28/01/2020 - 16:51

        if its the first scenario, make sure you walk out in Conor McGregor's boss stride

  • aussieprepper on 28/01/2020 - 16:52

    This depends on who you believe the CCP or the stories going around on Wechat? If its controlled like the Chinese government says should be no problem.

    While every Chinese citizen is saying some thing different including doctors and nurses?

    Both on different levels.

    Also maybe some international governments know its worse than they are saying so they are taking extra measures to prevent the spread.

  • THL on 28/01/2020 - 16:59

    I would say company has done the right thing by asking any employees who've recently travelled to China to take some time off due to the current outbreak. But the approach should be done appropriately, perhaps a company wide email explaining the measures and the seriousness of the Coronavirus. Or even a private phone chat by the manager letting the individuals know about it. I hope that company has done the above steps before simply telling your mate's colleague to "leave now and go home".

    If this happens to me, I'll gladly do so and go home for 2 weeks. Is it ethical? Yes. But I'll still be pissed if they simply treat me like a sick patient.

  • berry580 on 28/01/2020 - 17:39
    +4

    It's unethical to go to school/ work immediately after going to pandemic affected regions especially after considering the incubation period is 2 week. During that period, you can potentially not feel any symptom but still be contagious.

    It'll great if we can act before someone dies in Australia. There's already plenty of examples overseas, do we really need more?

  • syousef on 28/01/2020 - 17:49
    +6

    What is wrong with you people? YES It is ethical.

    Learn some history. Read up on the 1919 Spanish Flu pandemic. Read up on the Plague outbreak of 1665 that kept Isaac Newton at home. Hell do any reading on any epidemic or pandemic in history to get a bit of context. This is what we're trying to prevent. Is this particular virus going to cause one? There's enough of a risk that authorities are starting to take it seriously.

    No one is targeting a particular race or ethnicity. It's a simple matter of whether or not you've been in a place which is known to have had the flu spread.

    What would be really nice would be if the teachers sent home some optional work for the students to do. I'd also like to know what will happen if the parents have to go back to work. That's all secondary though.

  • OpenAI on 28/01/2020 - 18:14

    Is it Ethical? Yes!

    Can it be done a better way? Hell Yes

  • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2020 - 18:15
    +6

    I was in Shanghai for a 2-day meeting and had no problem getting back in the country via Hong-kong. I was offered accomodation close to the airport for the first 4 days after I landed and I'm now on a 10-day gardening leave. I'm surprised that my employer appears to be taking the threat of the 2019-nCoV more seriously than the Australian Government.

    P.s: I voted "yes" in the poll but the situation could have been handled better.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:02

      2-words, Treehouse Quarantine

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:11

        Rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated…by me :p I've got the all clear from doctor and I'm back on kids' duty tomorrow.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:13

          Your prior association with bats remains a concern.

          • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:19
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: The virus maybe 96% identical to that of a bat coronavirus but the reservoir was a snake. Thankfully, my premonitory dreams way back in 2015 kept me out of harm's reach :)

  • kaleidoscope on 28/01/2020 - 18:58
    +9

    14 day mandatory leave or work from home i’d say. I know it’s harsh but this is serious stuff.

    I used to work at a client place with huge open floors and around 500 people are in it… During flu season its like a horror scene where you hear someone at the far end coughing and each day goes by the coughes get closer as more people catch it until finally it devours you 😐

    • Zachary on 31/01/2020 - 09:22

      Sounds like a cool zombie flick I would watch!

  • gyrex on 28/01/2020 - 19:02

    Ask them if they've recently dined on bat soup with a side of koala ribs - you can make an assessment based on their response.

  • Debuting on 28/01/2020 - 19:23
    +2

    Absolutely. They shouldn't be allowed to visit any facilities unless they self-isolate for 2 weeks.

    I don't know what people are thinking voting the other way. It's like they don't even care about the health of others. It's got nothing to do with racism. Even inside China they are doing the exact same thing, to their own peers that have visited Hubei Province.

    People are getting arrested for not wearing a mask. That's how serious this disease is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSQVBj81Azg

    • sagrules on 29/01/2020 - 07:53

      I read the question wrong, and wouldnt let me change my vote. Any way to do this?

      • Taro Milk Tea on 29/01/2020 - 08:56

        Any way to do this?

        First world problem…don't worry…

  • neonlight on 28/01/2020 - 19:46
    +1

    Tell them to work from home if they cannot due to the type of work then take leave without pay or annual leave. I doubt anyone will take that option though

    It is more of unethical if you walk up to some stranger wearing masks and tell them to back to China…. Now that's bad.

    I imagine someone will do that soon

    • Ghost47 on 28/01/2020 - 21:29

      Pretty sure people have told Chinese people to go back to China already.

      • HighAndDry on 28/01/2020 - 21:58
        +1

        Chinese people are telling Chinese people that lol. A lot of time I kinda laugh at people "calling out" racism. Being Chinese, we're a lot worse just normally than 90% of the racism being called out.

  • TheBilly on 28/01/2020 - 19:56
    +3

    I don't think it's normal or ethical. They are either sick or they are not. It is not the place of the fear mongered masses to determine that. Leave it to the medical professionals.

    This is the same fear mongering they used to get people into POW camps in WW1 and WW2. It's the same media corporations with the same old tactics. Next they'll be saying all chinese people need to be rounded up and put in quarantine just because they are chinese or have travelled to China.

    More people die of car accidents, cancer, HIV etc. Why no fear or public outrage then? media is awfully quite about the number of people dead from the supposed war on terror since 2001.

    • TheMindsetTraveller on 28/01/2020 - 21:53
      -1

      @TheBilly I love your mindset and you are totally spot on. Best comment of the week.

  • CalmLemons on 28/01/2020 - 20:19
    +1

    As long as company does it it's fine. Would think it's suicide to get individual staff to do it, it's like legal suicide.

    I would love to be sent home and still get paid.

    • snook on 01/02/2020 - 23:19

      You don't get paid. You take leave.

      Sue China if you have a problem with that.

  • Maxxjet on 28/01/2020 - 20:44
    -7

    This is just evil. Your mate's colleague - the lady should seek legal advice if this is not company policy - even if it is - it may very well violate her legal rights. No I don't think this is right. If the company asks me to stay home, I can either work from home or even not, get full pay for the required period - 2 weeks/14 days, that is fine. Otherwise, she really is entitled to compensation.

    • jelko on 28/01/2020 - 21:18

      They can take sick leave, annual leave or leave without pay.

      • Maxxjet on 28/01/2020 - 22:00
        -3

        If she is indeed sick or showing any sign of infection, of course, however if she wasn't not infected, why would she take sick leave? And if she didn't plan any annual leave, why would she take it? Let alone unpaid leave?

        Do I want someone carrying potential deadly virus working with me in the same office- definitely not. So if this is for precautionary purpose and for the good of the mass, she needs to be properly compensated.

        • Donaldhump on 28/01/2020 - 23:50
          -1

          Travel insurance would cover lost income,

          I do agree they should not have to take leave though, so every best effort to give her home duties, sure they could make some work up for her she/he could do at home

  • Silicon Wizardry on 28/01/2020 - 21:02

    https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/Pages/20200128_05.aspx

    "The NSW Government has today requested that children who have visited China in the past two weeks not attend school or childcare services until 14 days have lapsed from their date of departure from China."

    • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 06:21

      in one of the interviews (not the gov ones), i think one of the catholic schools principal, she said something along the line 'if you have been to China, quarantine yourself, stay indoor, stay at home, stay at China'

  • Aphop on 28/01/2020 - 21:06

    Unless you normally work from home just tell your boss that your home is unsuitable as a workplace and that you will see them in two weeks.

    Also you expect to be paid as normal with no personal leave used as you are not sick , merely staying home at their suggestion.

  • Ghost47 on 28/01/2020 - 21:33

    I think it's ethical and normal to want to prevent the possibility of spreading any virus. The incubation period is 14 days or something, so who knows if that person has it or not. Better to be safe than sorry.

    In NSW health officials have requested to students who have come back from China less than 14 days ago not attend school. If it's unethical to do so then the NSw health officials are very naughty people for being so mean.

    • tempura on 28/01/2020 - 22:04

      what if they're wrong about this fourteen days incubation period?

      • Ghost47 on 28/01/2020 - 22:24

        I don't know.

      • haemolysis on 29/01/2020 - 03:11

        14 days is probably overkill anyway for a coronavirus. Surely you’d be feeling it by a week. How you could incubate a respiratory infection that long and not get the sniffles is.. beyond me. Coronavirus is not new. This strain is. But we know how the infection progresses. If you ain’t got symptoms by 2 weeks, you haven’t got it.

        • Taro Milk Tea on 29/01/2020 - 09:00
          -4

          Coronavirus is not new

          errr

          But we know how the infection progresses

          ERRR

          NO, WE DON'T KNOW! That's why its an epidemic now.

  • AirbusA389 on 28/01/2020 - 21:38
    +3

    i am renting out some of the rooms in my house to students. Chinese (China) students have to answer this question: "Have u been to China in the past 3 months?"

    if they are not happy to answer, they can find somewhere else to live. i dont see why i need to be politically correct or ethical when it comes to my own property and health.

    • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2020 - 21:45

      Why 3 months? The incubation period is believed to be 14 days.

      • tempura on 28/01/2020 - 22:04
        +1

        what if fourteen days incubation period is inaccurate?

        • jelko on 28/01/2020 - 22:19

          Do you think the incubation is 14 days? Why is it exactly 2 weeks? The incubation period is clearly less than 14 days and the 14 days is given as a worst case scenario. Do you think the coronavirus was just discovered in the past few days? It's been known since October 2019. There has been much research into the virus and Australian company CSL is on the way to creating a vaccine. This virus can be treated as long as it's contained. That means quarantining any visitor to China and stopping all Chinese migration into this country.

          • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 14:52

            @jelko:

            Why is it exactly 2 weeks? The incubation period is clearly less than 14 days and the 14 days is given as a worst case scenario

            its upto 14 days…..

    • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 19:46
      +1

      Chinese (China) students have to answer this question: "Have u been to China in the past 3 months?"

      While I don't disagree with you, they'll just lie to you and say no. So it really offers little protection.

    • CalmLemons on 02/02/2020 - 19:42

      you must be the type of person who asks the doctor for antibiotics when he has a cold.

  • desmondnnk on 28/01/2020 - 22:36
    +1

    I am asking my cousins not to visit for 2 weeks when they return.
    One of whom stays with my parents and they plan to self quarantine for 3 weeks by staying away from the family and relatives.

    Pretty understandable give the gravity of this new virus and the way China has mishandled it from the beginning.

    • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 06:18

      How's food gonna be provided to one of your cousins?

      • AirbusA389 on 29/01/2020 - 10:50

        Woolworths and Coles have grocery delivery service. leave the food at the door. dont touch the door handle please.

      • Archi on 29/01/2020 - 11:24
        -2

        the same way a prisoner gets their food left at the door of their cell through a hatch

    • WT on 30/01/2020 - 11:38

      one of the initial clusters of sars was spread by air born fecal particles from a positive pressured hotel room

      wiki pic https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Hotel_Me…

  • UFO on 28/01/2020 - 23:37
    +5

    So the decision is to potentially cause offence to one person, or potentially cause illness or even kill another?

    Pretty simple decision really, I don't even know why this conversation even has to take place.
    Being treated like a leper, vs actually being a leper and being responsible for spreading a serious illness at work is just plain SELFISH.

    Get over yourself. No one ever died from being offended. ISOLATE THEM, FORCIBLY IF NECESSARY (if they don't have the common decency to do it themselves).

    • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 06:16
      -6

      you almost seem okay to burn these folks just to overcome the epidemic

      • askme69 on 29/01/2020 - 11:37
        -2

        Without hesitation.

        They are just saying its the elderly who were already sick that are dying.

        Its like someone turning up with a blood filled syringe, take them out.

        As for those Australians trapped and wanting out. You comeback to quarantine for 1 month or you stay.

        • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 11:53

          what if one of those elderly is your relo? without hesitation?

      • UFO on 29/01/2020 - 16:30

        What a completely over-exaggerated and irrational response.

        Burn them? Really?

        If someone is potentially carrying a life threatening disease or virus, that is also very easy to spread, the RIGHT THING for them to do of their own volition is to isolate themselves. The desire for them to earn money, or not feel victimised, or be included in normal activity is secondary.

        It's THEIR selfishness that should be on display here, not the people wishing to remain healthy.

        Smokers are excluded. They are told to go outside while they expel harmful chemicals to those around them.
        Having a coronavirus is exactly he same.

        If you have the potential to harm an innocent person standing next to you through no fault of their own, you need to leave.

        Making others be concerned that your feelings may be hurt by that action is ludicrous.

        • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 17:20

          why are you replying to me?

          • UFO on 29/01/2020 - 22:27
            -2

            @tempura: "you almost seem okay to burn these folks just to overcome the epidemic"

            Yes I was replying to you.
            You don't think this was a comment that was little over-exaggerated and irrational?

            • tempura on 30/01/2020 - 07:07
              -1

              @UFO: aaaah so much effort to explain

              • UFO on 30/01/2020 - 14:45

                @tempura: Only because you failed to grasp the concept, and I like to help people who struggle with such things.

                You're welcome.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 15:08
      +1

      This entire conversation is descending into lowest common denominator nonsense.

      If an individual's categorisation is considered a health risk (by professionals, not by the hysteria mob such as we see here) then it is prudent to work from home. However, despite arguments to the contrary, colleagues can not take it upon themselves to enforce this as a rule. This is not a subjective opinion, it is a fact. If the indivual and his/her colleagues are not happy to work in the company of someone that id allowed to go to the workplace then they should stay at home themselves until the situation changes.

      But don't let me get in the way of a xenophobic lynch mob.

  • Donaldhump on 28/01/2020 - 23:46
    +3

    If the person had half a brain they would
    Voluntarily work from home, or ask the work place if they can take sick leave etc… would you want to infect other humans if you had a possibility of carrying it

    That’s my view

    • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 06:13

      but that guilt feeling of what not seem to taking advantage of situation

      • HighAndDry on 29/01/2020 - 08:25
        +1

        feeling

        Yeah I don't care.

        • UFO on 29/01/2020 - 16:33
          +1

          Exactly.

          It has nothing to do with feelings!

          You're infectious = you stay at home

          (this goes for anything from colds to coronaviruses)

  • Bargain80 on 28/01/2020 - 23:47
    +4

    Not sure if someone has mentioned yet, but they have now confirmed human to human transmission of the virus.
    A German caught the virus from a colleague visiting from Shanghai.
    So you can tell your colleague that.

    • tempura on 29/01/2020 - 06:12

      I just did and she couldn't take it no more

    • sagrules on 29/01/2020 - 07:59
      +1

      Had to google for link as I hadnt heard of this story earlier

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/germany-european-coun…

    • Taro Milk Tea on 29/01/2020 - 09:04

      but they have now confirmed human to human transmission of the virus.

      human to human as in…what? Of course it has been transmitted from human to human through air mostly..

      • Bargain80 on 29/01/2020 - 09:39
        +1

        human to human transmission outside China.
        A German was infected by someone visiting from China.
        And a Japanese bus driver was infected by a tourist passenger.

        But again, your colleagues are right to be worry but they have to bring it up with management, not direct to the person.

        • HighAndDry on 29/01/2020 - 17:01

          A German was infected by someone visiting from China.

          Even more worrying - he was infected by someone who didn't show symptoms until she was already on the plane back to China.

  • Bob Svargis on 29/01/2020 - 07:12
    +6

    Damn right it's ethical. Someone's offence is of no importance compared to the risk. I bet they are being much more forthright in China when it comes to quarantining.

    Friend needs to get over it.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 29/01/2020 - 09:05
      -1

      It's more about the approach of her colleagues toward her. It's not a nice feeling getting ambushed on your first day coming back to work, could have done it in a better manner/way

      • elgrande on 29/01/2020 - 09:15

        Yes, perhaps her manager could have given her a call

      • Pretzel_Ninja on 29/01/2020 - 09:37

        She should look for a new job, people working there sound like ignorant pricks. I'm sure your colleague went through all the checks at the airport. If they have cleared her to enter the country then these work colleagues can gf - they aren't medical experts so not their call. If they are so concerned then they should stay home.

        The main difference between this and a common flu is incubation period and transmission. Some people and their hysteria - if you're not elderly or an infant, you'll be ok. The 5 cases in Aus, none of them are even serious.

        • Mrbean007 on 29/01/2020 - 15:49

          As above if people are that concerned about there health wich all should be just have to be precauses of there surroundings.

          If there that paranoid they should stay at home.

        • snook on 01/02/2020 - 23:18

          The State Government told their staff last week not to come to work for 2 weeks if you have traveled to China. This decision has been made across the State and has become a rule of practice for any workplace.

          So you're wrong.

          You don't know what people you work with have wrong with them. I am compromised and not everyone in the office even knows about it. If i caught it, i would die guaranteed. Do i get a box with my own air con unit?

          No, the people who traveled to China stay home.

      • snook on 01/02/2020 - 23:18

        ambushed

        melodramatic much?

    • WT on 30/01/2020 - 11:47

      china was in a lot of trouble with the sars outbreak, telling media not to report it and down play it, lack of action, limiting WHO access to do their job.

      China had the highest infection rate but the lowest death rate "reported". It wouldnt surprise me if they picked a number from a hat

  • sagrules on 29/01/2020 - 08:01

    Some positive news out of this story at least:

    Australian lab first outside of China to re-create coronavirus, helping vaccine push
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-29/wuhan-coronavirus-cre…

    • Taro Milk Tea on 29/01/2020 - 09:34
      +1

      Chief medical officer Brendan Murphy said in Australia there has been no known human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus.
      "There is no cause for concern in the Australian public, there is no human to human transmission of this virus," he said.

      And then this news came out….sheesh..

      • HighAndDry on 29/01/2020 - 17:02
        +1

        Medical Officer sounding like the Iraqi foreign Minister here lol.

  • shaybisc on 29/01/2020 - 08:09
    +5

    If you feel fine come to work/school seems risky policy to me. What's the incubation period? You can be infectious without being sick can't you?

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