I saw this this afternoon, on news.com.au
Yes it may be considered 'non-essential' travel, but how is someone learning to drive? In fact, now would be the perfect time now that there are less idiots (I mean drivers) on the road. The L-plater probably no longer has a job, so how can she pay the $100 fine?
Do you think the Police Office was correct in fining the L-Plater?
I disagree, the L-plate was staying in the car the whole time and no contact with anyone other than her mum.
The point of the restrictions was to stop the spread of corona which the person was not at risk of doing
So no, I believe the Police Officer was wrong in fining the L-plater
There are many scenarios that could have happened that would lead to unnecessary interaction with others and hence potential spread of disease either way.
All could happen anytime, or may not have happened at all, but the point is it's unnecessary risk and should be avoided as much as we can.
Overly excessive. You can do most things with minimal contact and it's unlikely the listed situations will happen, let alone having the people involved carrying the virus
@FireRunner: I don't disagree, but that's the govt direction right now. If we kept to it, should be quicker getting back to normality.
@Hybroid: I doubt such low-risk low-contact activities will make any impact on the longevity of the situation
@FireRunner: I think the problem is, if you allow this sort of activity, then hundreds of thousands of people will be out there doing it, which gives even greater chances of Hybroid's list of possibilities occuring. It also means:
- more stops at petrol stations
- more need for mechanics
- more people out and about
- people flaunting the relaxed rules and getting out of their car to check the waves/lookout etc
All of this results in more chances for interaction.
Also - where do you draw the line? Easier for there to be no line.
@FireRunner: Yeah I'm absolutely with geoffs87 - the problem isn't one person doing it because it absolutely is unlikely and minimal, but if everyone does this and they do it frequently it becomes a big problem.
Agreed. Since this is a Learner and they are using a vehicle with no brakes on the passenger side it has a higher risk of having an accident. If an accident does occur it's also wasting the time of essential services having to respond to something non-essential as this.
@No Username: As per the learners book, “ You are relatively safe as a learner driver with a supervising driver to help you. This is why Victoria has
a long learner driver period and a 120 hour requirement. This is the best time to learn the skills you need to be a safer driver.
• The highest crash risk is associated with new P plate drivers. When you start to drive on your probationary licence you will have the highest risk of crashing that you will ever have as a driver. This is why Victoria has special requirements for new drivers and a Graduated Licensing System (GLS).”
Therefore P platers should also be banned.
I have no idea why people negged you. Those you mention does happen even if it's 0.1% of chance for the individual.
Reminds me of this article
"The Health Minister is holding onto his job but has been forced to apologise to the Prime Minister for flouting lockdown rules by driving to a mountain bike park for a spin in the hills, and search and rescue say people who do activities like that are putting the lives of their volunteers at risk."
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/health-minis…
People don't plan for accidents, they happen. The rules are in place for a reason.
Similarly people aren't allowed to go boating, since there's no (or minimal) coastguard on duty to save their asses.
Or a police officer pulling you over, handling your licence, standing next to your open window being hit with all your corona-droplets…Sounds very unnecessary in this instance.
But for the record we should not be treating anything about the coming 6 months as 'normal'.
So in that case nobody should be driving at all on the road except truckies/delivery drivers/posties.
Load of shit mate.
@Ahbal: That's the whole point…
Plus any acceptable cases here: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8532263/redir
Fitting username.
@Hybroid: Right except for the fact NSW police are fine with it. They consider it under the "cant learn remotely". Makes sense.
https://twitter.com/GrogsGamut/status/1247050643618975746?re…
Eventually other states' police will wisen up.
consider it under the "cant learn remotely"
May be police expected L-plater to learn remotely in games like GTA? :)
@hybrid if you're worried about those POTENTIAL points of contact, what about contact with the police when they pulled them over to avoid a potential contact? That's complete stpidity.. if they were literally just driving around then the police will have caused more risk of spreading than anyone else.. they will likely come into contact with more people
@wozz: Yes but the fine in this case wasn't about this one case being a potential risk, it was about demonstrating that it's not appropriate to flaunt the new rules so that hundreds of thousands of people don't do the same and actually cause a problem
It was definitely harsh but at the same time, she was breaking the rules and they're perfectly clear. Is it up to her to decide if her specific situation was OK when she knows that it's against the rules? Does she have all the information?
Is it any different to her saying that, "there's no-one around and this is a new two-lane road so I can safely go 60kph even though the road sign says 40kph". She may be right, she may be able to go safely go 60kph and have minimal chance of causing damage to herself or others but that's not how the law works.
Or what if someone is of the opinion that the virus can only be spread by coughing. Could they decide that it's perfectly safe to mingle with others as long as they have a mask on?
Maybe if they wore facemasks, faceshields, they would have been okay?
This is you sort of trying to bend the law!
Whether you agree with the NSW legislation or not is another question, but the L-plater was clearly not following the rules.
Maybe the car can pass the Rona onto other cars?
its an excuse for police to gain revenue that's it
The rules are pretty clear and simple, if one can't get that, then they deserve to be fined as they asked for it.
The point of the restrictions was to stop the spread of corona which the person was not at risk of doing
No, the point of this restriction is to stop cars being on the road that don't need to be, because less cars = less accidents = less ICU beds and hospital resources used by car crash victims = more ICU beds and hospital resources for coronavirus patients.
Put pretty sure they were 90 minutes from home. They weren't just going for a drive….
there's couple holding hands
That is apalling…
Some friends told me that their wifes are enforcing "social distancing" in bed 🙄
Been doing that for years now
You must have known this virus was coming…
Just to be on the safe side.
Gosh..Wife says No, brothels are closed and now just hope he doesn't break his hand in any accident..
I can see a spike in divorce rate once it is all over
Oh rly? Driving in your own car within a relatively sealed environment is a COVID-19 risk?
This is an outrageous example of idiotic policing.
Exactly this
I agree in that I think it's ridiculous that the learner got fined, but there are concerns in regards to exposure.
Driving in your own car within a relatively sealed environment is a COVID-19 risk?
Yes. What would happen if the learner was in an accident, had a breakdown, etc? Those would all potentially expose the learner and others.
Edit to add: petrol, maintenance. Yes, they may not need to this time, but in doing this extra unnecessary driving, they decreasing the time before they need to do those things, which again means more exposure.
This is all assuming that their excuse wasn't BS - it probably wasn't, but the whole point of the "stay at home" is to have people "stay at home".
there's couple holding hands
If they are a couple why shouldn't they hold hands? You don't need to social distance from your partner.
I agree though, it's busier out there
The responses to this one are the people not taking things seriously and are the reason why NSW especially is roaring ahead of the rest of the country with the number of confirmed cases…
There is literally no correlation between an L-Plater fined for driving in Melbourne and the amount of people in Sydney CBD.
I also go along George St 3-4 times a week for essential work and it is nowhere near a "regular day" - and always has been since the shutdowns.
Regular day was ~50 people along one block of footpath; but now it's under ~5 (and 2 of which are patrolling cops).
But I digress, if you are making an assumption from your "window" it's great you are staying indoors - just throw out your tin-foil hat and chill out till it all blows over.
Wasn't it Revoked?
Not yet. If it doesn't, I'll help pay the fine if they have a go Fund ME.
Why?
Read about the couple sitting in their car in the street that got fined. That was pretty excessive.
Define "sitting"? Were they "sitting" in the backseat?🤨
I think there was more to it than that, like the guy eating the 'kebab'.
Or like the one who was "walking his dog" …
@BewareOfThe Dog: It was some guy who was allegedly flashing the kids at a local park. When questioned, he said he was walking his dog. There was no dog with him.
@petry: The poor man: not only had his dog ran away without him noticing but he had also been walking around with his fly open.
Fake Taxi maybe?
Sitting…💏🥰😍🤩😘💞💕💫
That kind of "sitting" has always been illegal,hasn't it?
@Mad Max: They are some smooth,smooth criminals.
I saw a couple once erm making sweet, sweet love in the back of a white camry in broad daylight and in full view of the 'restaurant' where a mate and I were having lunch. My toddler was also in tow. I could clearly see his naked backside as I would assume could quite a few other patrons in the restaurant. No one seemed too fazed by it though.
From the way that car was shaking , it looked like they were having the time of their life… and then the cops came. So, yeah definitely an illegal act.
You should only be outside for one of the following four reasons:
Learning to drive is none of those. Do not try and create / exploit a grey area.
When Sharee questioned the reason for the fine, she claims the officer said the police were “smashing it on the roads today”.
I'd have an educated guess and say that Shazza doesn't generally follow the rules.
Nice , so should have gone with an instructor and would of been ok because of work .
Or even if you had a business teach them going to the Post Office / Warehouse etc .
“This isn’t driving around the corner, it was driving 40 minutes from Hampton down to the Peninsula Link,” Patton said. - Source
Sure, the fine was excessive and possibly should have been given a warning, but the message is clear.
People continue to act where they seem 'not a risk', like going to Taronga Zoo because many people have this attitude and have stayed away, until it turns out like Bondi Beach.
I wouldn't be surprised if Shazza filled up at the servo and stopped at a 'friends house' to pick up an 'isolation package'. Gotta spend that $750!.
Well if Taronga zoo has been allowed to stay open then we should be rewarding them with our business tbh. If the givernment doesn't want us to go there they should force it to close. Leaving it open but telling us not to go is just silly.
can i go shop with a whole full car??
Only if it is people you live with.
work and study if you can’t work or learn remotely
Huh? Learning to drive is an instance of study..
Not formal education.
No one ever said that it has to be formal education.
Is this actually considered illegal behaviour? I dont understand why a family member can't teach their kids how to drive. Does this mean no one can even apply for licence now for the forseeable future?
Not having a license also decreases their chance of obtaining a job.
I think the issue lies in that at some point the car then needs petrol, which means attending a service station which means interaction with people.
You are allowed to buy puzzles, just not petrol unless it is for essential driving. So, if the learner driver was driving the teaching driver to Kmart to get puzzles, it would have been permissible.
haha of course, they forgot to say they were going to buy a puzzle. I hope when they appeal they mention this key piece of information to the judge.
I'll remember that if I'm near Frontline Hobbies or Kmart. Thanks Scomo.
Noone would have cared and no fines would have been issued if they stayed within their local area / postcode.
These two were 30kms from their house. If you allow that, then you are exposing a large loophole allowing people to travel under the guise of "teaching my son/daughter/nephew/friend/etc".
Even if they weren't actually intending to go down to the beach, they are still going too far from home. You could say that they were staying in a car, but what happens when they need to go the toilet, use a public bathroom, go to the servo etc. etc.
In saying that, it is a bit unfair and this fine would probably get appealed successfully if they explain their circumstances.
How about those people who take their kids to maccas? How come that is considered an "essential travel"?
Because their parents are too lazy to cook, and Woolies hasn't got any Baked Beans/Spaghetti left.
lmao no spaghetti left cause its the only thing most people can cook.
We talking tinned or packet spaghetti?
Haven't you heard? Maccas is an essential service now because they sell stale bread rolls and milk with one day left before it goes out of date.
They probably are offering those essential services because they fear stage 4 if you have the Vic Premier you could be out of action .
How come that is considered an "essential travel"?
Comes under getting food and only to your LOCAL maccas aka the one in your suburb, not the maccas 30+ kms away.
Which was the case with this learner. Out for a drive 30+ kms from their house. As the article says, if they had been in there home suburb the fine most likely wouldn't have been issued.
My point was more what a strange world we live in where Maccas is considered essential.
strange world we live in where Maccas is considered essential.
Its not just maccas as such, its all places that sell food are 'essential'.
Yeah 30+ kms from home is a bit much - not really necessary for leaner driving, especially with the decreased road traffic. What if they had an accident/breakdown?
Yeah I don't understand what people don't get? The stage 3 restrictions in victoria are pretty simple and clear, there are only 4 valid reasons to be out of your house and they are
Otherwise, stay home. Its as simple as that. If people breach these directions, they face on-the-spot fines. Victoria Police have been given the power to issue on the spot fines of up to $1,652 for individuals.
I don't make this stuff up, its all over the news and TV, yet people are shocked when they get fined for not following them.
https://www.vic.gov.au/coronavirusresponse#stage-3-restricti…
@JimmyF: Exactly JimmyF!!
Rules are clear, 4 reasons for travel/ not self isolating.
Yes there are inconsistencies but the carrying on from people making excuses is just shows why keeping the guidance as simple as possible is needed.
But I was just going for a drive
But I was just going fishing
But i was just…. (insert pretty much any activity some feels like the should be exempted to do)
The government isn’t going to make a thousand rules to try and cover every variation and permutation of activity.
Simple rules have been given and people still can’t be bothered to follow them. Fine away til people get it I say
@parsimonious one: I thought it was pretty clear myself, stay at home but clearly not. My other fav one is
But I am not sick……. why do I need to stay at home
Nobody has common sense anymore and the only language everyone communicates nowadays is money.
Once people start seeing fines and wallets getting empty because of the fines, only then they will understand.
Unfortunate for the girl, but that's the only way this will work and others will start to take notice.
I didnt realise they were 30km+ from home, when i was learning to drive i did it in suburbs i was familiar with around my house to get practice. Im not familiar with Victorian suburbs.
But at the same time I cant help but feel this is clear revenue raising by the various state governments to cover the other unplanned costs that have arisen out of COVID-19. E.g. forced isolation of the thousands of people coming back from overseas for 14days in 4* and 5* hotels, the ongoing Ruby Princess debacle in NSW etc etc.
I cant help but feel this is clear revenue raising
No people are not getting 'it' and still out and about everywhere, so they are starting to fine them.
This fine and news article will bring awareness to others who think that a 'sunday drive' is ok. No it is not.
the ongoing Ruby Princess debacle in NSW etc etc.
Ahhh that media beat up on the cruise ship. Yes lets focus on this ship, I mean it brought the virus to this country didn't it, oh wait no it didn't. Australians who got the virus from somewhere else, most likely from public transport or a crowded space like a shopping center, then got onto the ship and spread it around the ship. Also let's also ignore the other 5500+ cases in australia and how those people got it and the fact that the NSW health cleared the people to leave the ship and return to their homes. From what I can tell the ship followed protocol at the time, as well as NSW health.
If it was not for revenue raising, then waive the fine and put them in prison instead.
People will get shelter and food there, and can be guaranteed to be self isolated.
NSW Police have publicly stated that it's fine to go for a lesson (with either family or instructor) on a driving lesson.
Kudos to you @wittyusername
State to State they interpret differently.eg fishing is fine in NSW . In Vic you will be fined .
Or like in SA/QLD, you can own a gel blaster, as long as you are not displaying it in public; however in NSW & Vic, it's a replica firearm.
Which is funny because the Murray is governed by NSW… so if the VIC cops catch you taking the boat to/from the river they'll fine you for intending to do something legal.
2 fine uses, nice
fishing is fine in NSW . In Vic you will be fined .
There's a fine line, and they just crossed it.
The fine is hefty but people are getting complacement. Sydney city centre today looks like a normal busy bustling day because for some reason everyone's decided to go back out again… It's seriously busy out there. Looking out the window at George St, looks like a regular day, nothing like last week.
Granted there's far more people in 'gym clothes' than usual but they're not distancing, there's couple holding hands, looks all normal. This is going to make this situation worse and take longer than it needs to.
Did she really really have to go out on a driving lesson on the weekend? Probably not.