Issues with Insurance - Being Deemed "at Fault" Because I Can't Provide Details of Other Party

katykat on 12/04/2020 - 19:18
Last edited 13/04/2020 - 14:43

Hi all,

I am having some issues with my insurance in getting my car repaired and thought I'd ask for some advice or experience. I've only ever had to claim once before in my life, and in that case I was clearly not at fault and the insurance handled it all no problem.

So, a few weeks ago my Dad went out for the weekly essential grocery shopping and borrowed my car because it's more fuel efficient (little hatchback v big sedan) and he was going a bit further to a big suburban shopping centre to ensure he got everything in one go. Place was apparently almost deserted.

He parked in their underground car park and went on his way. Just as he is getting ready to leave he is called over the loud speaker to attend the car. Someone had damaged my car by repeatedly kicking it. Security had been called and were there, and the lady who witnessed it had also called the police whilst it happened. I don't know what it must have looked like? To warrant a call to the cops from the witness, I guess the person must have really gone at it? Maybe drug affected? The person ran off. Anyway, there is a huge dent in the front wheel arch of my car. Only cosmetic thankfully but bad enough to require fixing. I have comprehensive so I thought no big deal.

Security made an incident report, got the witness details etc.. Advised my Dad to go straight to the police and lodge an incident report for insurance and to provide Security Guy A's details who will liaise, provide witness details etc. Dad does so, police email him a copy of the report the next day, and Security Guy also provides one for Dad too. Neither mention the witness's details, but clearly state there's an independent witness to the incident and that it's criminal damage.

Dad puts through the claim for me because he's authorized to and I was still working at that point… only for the insurer to call and argue about it. Despite a police report and an incident report from the shopping centre they are claiming they cannot put the claim through as "no fault" because we cannot provide the details of the "other party". Therefore, I will be considered at partial fault and have to pay excess and will see increases to my premium / rating etc…

I am pissed. The only thing I can think of is that all car parks are deemed as accepting risk… but they haven't said that's why! They said it's because I can't provide details of the druggie who tripped out on my car for no reason.

Has anyone had something like this happen or know a bit about insurance claims?

Edit: Thanks for all the advice guys. I am now feeling better about this and have a bit more understanding of how these types of claims work. I will be reading my PDS and going from there. I don't claim or deal with insurance much so the wording of being "at fault" for random criminal damage was what got to me. Now I know it's fairly standard I'll figure out what to do. Options will be going through my PDS and then having a chat with AAMI to see if they'll waive the effect it will have on my rating due to the circumstances. Most likely I'll have to fork out to have it fixed privately. My Dad sent some photos to AAMI and they were expecting at least $800 to fix the panel so I guess I'll get some quotes and see. I would rather have it fixed because the dent is quite large (bigger than a person's foot, I have no idea how they did it with just kicking) and looks horrible, paint is also chipped and flaking.

Because people asked: car is a 10 year old top model / all extras Hyundai i30 SR. In pristine condition, well looked after with only 80,000kms (commuter so don't drive much). At this stage of it's life I think it's still worth comprehensive.

Automotive

Comments

  • Halo375 on 12/04/2020 - 19:24
    +10

    Sounds fair - otherwise every accident claim would include the comment - some random druggie crashed into me and ran off. I’m not at fault, right?

    It’s not fair and sometimes bad things happen. If police catch the person then you’ll be able to claim against them for damages but that’ll probably not happen.

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:33
      +2

      Yep, bad things happen sometimes. The report was solely to put it on the record. It's obviously not an active investigation and won't be followed up so I doubt I'll ever get the details of the one who did it.

      The more I thought about it the more I realized I'm just going to have to accept the cost. Like I said, I've never had to claim much before so wanted some advice of how normal this is. I think the problem is the insurance staff member didn't explain well. I was told upfront that I had contributed to the damage and so excess would be charged and I was like, um what it was criminal damage and I wasn't even there, how did I contribute to it? It went downhill from there and took a while for them to clarify that what they <i>really</i> meant was that I was liable because I can't provide them the other party's details. After a circular conversation about how my car was vandalized by a random and, no I don't know who did it they were a random, it felt like they were trying to get out of something rather than follow policy.

      • Halo375 on 13/04/2020 - 08:44
        +1

        Yeah, sounds like the insurers need to work on their communications skills!

  • geech on 12/04/2020 - 19:27
    +4

    Pretty standard. In the eyes of the insurance company, someone needs to foot the bill. Either the person who did it (if you can provide details) or (unfortunately) you, by way of your excess.

    Should all be spelled out clearly in your PDS

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:34

      Yeah I will go over the PDS closely soon. I'm still ticked but feeling more accepting about eating the cost now that I know this is normal.

  • GangGang on 12/04/2020 - 19:29
    +7

    The issue is you have no other party to claim against. It's basically a hit & run and you have to deal with the costs.

    Can you get footage from the shopping centre? It could be a local dero.

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:22

      Yeah the more I thought about it the more I figured I'm going to have to eat the cost. I'm just frustrated because it's not like a hit and run or normal car park damage where there's not always evidence of what happened. I guess I just thought an independent witness, 000 call, security and a police report would be sufficient to deem it "no fault" and that I'm not trying to take my insurance company for a ride.

      We've have asked the shopping centre for footage and they haven't gotten back to us yet. I doubt there is any because my Dad asked at the time if there would be and if he would need it for the police report, to which the security guard responded that he was 99% sure there weren't cameras that covered that area in the car park. It's a hug space, so even if there are they might not be clear enough.

      • GangGang on 12/04/2020 - 22:41

        Its a pain in the ass. Just think of comp insurance protection of yourself, even if its not your fault. Just make the claim & get it sorted yourself. Even if you had a dashcam or footage from shops, I doubt the police would chase this person up.

        Is it a new car? If it isn't that bad just leave it.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2020 - 19:35

    Dashcam footage?

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:35

      Unfortunately not. After this I'm thinking I might get one though. It wouldn't have helped in this situation but it's probably something I should have.

  • Meho2026 on 12/04/2020 - 19:38
    +1

    How much is the excess?
    If its low then its probably less than an ombudsman complaint investigation will cost the insurance company so you can lodge an official complaint to insurance company, separate to the claim.
    As part of your complaint, state that you are prepared to involve AFCA.
    The insurance company will then determine if its cheaper for them to pay for the AFCA investigation or to let you off the excess.
    Of course, if you've cheaped out and got a massive excess then thats different and you will have to decide whether its actually cheaper for you to get it fixed yourself or not bother because its still drive-able than go forward with the insurance claim.
    I know its hard to swallow that you are disadvantaged because some loser scum bag that contributes nothing to society has vandalised your property but you need to let that go and do whatever minimises your loss.

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:41

      Excess is not huge and is affordable to me, but obviously if I don't have to pay it I would rather not. I feel like I may just eat the cost because a complaint sounds like a lot of effort.

      That said though, I feel like it's a bit rich that insurance companies can assign fault and cost to their clients when it is clearly not their fault. I said in one of my other replies that I had assumed independent witnesses, security guards, 000 call and police report would be adequate enough for an insurance company to know the client isn't trying to scam them… plus it's kind of what insurance is for. They probably need to amend the wording, because it sucks that this goes on my record as an at fault or contributory fault incident when it's really nothing of the sort.

      • ssquid on 12/04/2020 - 22:02
        +1

        It's pretty standard to have to pay basic excess if your car is broken into/vandalized. Not so sure about it affecting your no-claim/at-fault status though.

        • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 22:09

          To be honest, that's the sticker for me more than the excess. I feel much better now that I know it's normal for excess to be taken for these types of incidents.

          I guess I might do some more investigation about it and see if / why I was told my rating would be affected and if I can fight it.

  • Nugs on 12/04/2020 - 19:39
    +3

    Sounds like a replacement guard from the wreckers is an option
    .

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:57

      Potentially. I don't know much about cars or how much it costs to fix dents like this. If it turns out it's an easy replacement I might end up doing it privately though.

      • salmon123 on 13/04/2020 - 01:05
        +1

        I don't know much about cars or how much it costs to fix dents like this

        Smash repair industry is pretty cut throat.

        If you don't mind a back yard job, you can probably find someone to do it for around $100-$200/panel. That's about 6-8 hours of work, to fill, sand and spray the panel + materials.

  • idonteven on 12/04/2020 - 19:52
    +6

    Sorry bud, that’s the name of the game.

    Insurance needs to recoup the costs from somebody. If you can’t provide someone then that someone is you.

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:42

      Sucks though :(

  • Muzeeb on 12/04/2020 - 20:14
    +1

    Just like hitting wildlife.

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:46

      How so? Hitting wildlife seems a little different, because for 1) I'd have been driving and contributing in some way even if it's a freak accident and 2) animals are animals and hitting one isn't really them causing malicious or criminal damage to my car.

      Not a criticism, just curious.

      • Muzeeb on 12/04/2020 - 21:47
        +1

        Different but same.

        • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 21:48

          hahahaha +1

    • spackbace on 12/04/2020 - 20:53
      +5

      Whichever party is in power couldn't stop this. If they did, premiums would sky-rocket.

      Just a stupid thing to say.

      • orangetrain on 13/04/2020 - 02:47
        -3

        Lets say Police provide rego and picture that I crashed into their car. I refuse and point out your post. Police laugh and say I must still pay as rego owner or blame/nominate someone.

        Totally fair society here.

        Premiums would actually go down if we let people/insurance blame rego instead chasing the responsible driver. Your post is short sighted to the big picture of this.

    • Quantumcat on 12/04/2020 - 21:15
      +2

      The insurance company is not going to spend money hiring private detectives to track this person down. If you can't provide their identity, you'll have to pay. It is just how things work.

      • orangetrain on 13/04/2020 - 02:47
        -1

        Society allows government to collect money from rego owner. Citizens/insurance don't have the same power despite evidence of damage inflicted.

        Why the need for private detectives? Waste of money.

        • Quantumcat on 13/04/2020 - 10:26
          +1

          There was no rego captured, only video of someone kicking the car

  • Seraphin7 on 12/04/2020 - 22:09
    +1

    Who's the insurer?

    I had an incident many years ago where I was basically run off the road. Witnesses came forward but the police couldn't pin it on any one person due to BS on the owner vs. the driver of the car. That said, the police filed a report with the insurer that I was not at fault (or whatever the language is) and that got me off excess, etc. even though the at fault party could not be identified.

    I would suggest various insurers have various ways of handling these sorts of situations.

    • katykat on 12/04/2020 - 22:20

      That is good to know. I'm glad you weren't held liable in the end.

      I'm with AAMI. I thought the same initially that the police report would help but after a long circular conversation when they called to tell us the outcome of the claim, they were adamant that excess had to paid, that it was "because [my Dad] couldn't provide the third party's details which made me partially at fault" and that the fact it was random criminal damage was irrelevant. It was pointed out that I can't be the first one this has happened to but it didn't make a difference. Either someone was having a bad day or AAMI's normal way of dealing with this is to take the $$$ from the insured.

      Once Easter is over and everyone is back I will definitely be following up and getting more clarity about the reasoning. I'm a bit more relaxed about paying the excess now but I'm pissed that they said it would be a fault claim and would affect my rating. Hopefully it's a misunderstanding, especially considering they opened the conversation by saying that I had been found to have contributed to the incident so was liable… instead of you know, explaining it was a details thing.

    • jimbobaus on 13/04/2020 - 10:38

      Literally every insurer will treat you as at fault if you can not provide details of other party.
      While they can use discretion in some cases (yours sounds very unique) they will almost always never budge.
      Does not matter who you are insured with, a car park accident without other parties name, even with police report or CCV footage from centre then you will be at fault.

  • wallet72 on 12/04/2020 - 23:51
    -1

    seems like AAMI want you to pay excess unless you can give them enough details to identify the other party. In your case, unless the police arrest someone you're out of luck.

    Sucks really, I could go bash the crap out of my ex's car, but as long as I'm not identified it will cost her. The more I learn about insurance, then less useful it becomes.

  • Cheeper on 12/04/2020 - 23:59

    Insurance co's suck, some more than others.
    Looks like you are between a rock and an hard place..
    How old is the car? We have no idea. Is the panel mangled or just slightly dented?
    Older cars are not worth having comprehensive insurance on.. FYI.
    Go to 3 panel beaters and get quotes. You may find getting it sorted that way may not be too expensive when you deduct your excess and premium increase next year and the pain of dealing with an insurance co.

  • salmon123 on 13/04/2020 - 01:07
    +1

    As annoying as it is, I think you can get it fixed privately for less than you excess.

    Insurance is an scam for this type of stuff.

  • screensaver on 13/04/2020 - 01:11
    -1

    Someone has keyed the bonnet of my car and I dont know why, I never took anyones parking space or anything. I have also scratched the sides backing out of my driveway on the old metal gate. Just as well I only paid 2900 for the car. I only hope now that it passes its next pink slip in DEc

  • Lv80 on 13/04/2020 - 02:01
    +2

    You are getting hooked on the wording.

    The excess is like a GAP. Basically if you can't make someone else pay that gap, you have to pay for it. The insurance company can't pay this gap themselves. So you either need to pay it or someone else does. It's that simple. This is why you have insurance.!!! Because if some fool hit you and wrote off your $40,000 car but left the scene and no way to find them, it would only cost the small amount of the excess.

    Sometiimes it isn't worth paying the gap as it's just as cheap or only a little bit more to get it done yourself. Ergo no rise in premiums. premiums are a risk factor. Make a claim, you are a bigger risk.

    This is insurance. Be it car, home, health, life, income etc.

    If you don't like the excess you can pay a heap of money to have it lowered…but then you are wasting money if you don't ever claim..so most people have a higher excess and pay a lower premium.

  • jimbobaus on 13/04/2020 - 10:35

    It's literally in every single PDS for every single car insurance policy.
    If you can not provide the details of the other party then you are "at fault" as far as the policy is concerned.

    Whether its another party hitting you car, a tree falling on it or hail damage
    You are "at fault" and an excess would be payable etc

    Do people not read the PDS?

    • Euphemistic on 13/04/2020 - 18:39
      +1

      It is actually not ‘at fault’ but just that you are required to pay the excess if you can’t nominate a specific responsible party for the damage.

  • TheManInDemand on 13/04/2020 - 19:42
    +2

    If you don’t want to repair it through insurance my suggestion would be to call up all the wreckers and ask for that specific panel that you need replacing because it’s a lot easier to just get the part and replace it, than it is to repair the part especially when there is damage and paint chipping so call around all the wreckers and take note of who has the part and who has it in your color
    I’m sure you will find someone that has it in your color because the car is not brand new and just to be on the safe side before you call the wreckers go to your dealership and ask them the name and correct terminology for the part you need so that way you sound like you know what you’re talking about when you call up the wreckers.
    The panel from the record should cost anywhere between $100-$200 and to replace it will cost about the same if it is just the one panel.
    Best of luck

    • katykat on 14/04/2020 - 20:44

      Great advice! Thank you!

      I honestly don't even know where to start in finding somewhere cheap locally, but you've pointed me in the right direction. If we fix it privately this will be a good option. I hadn't even thought about things like part numbers, so thanks!

  • cwongtech on 14/04/2020 - 00:18

    Have you got a photo of the damage?

    Is it just a flesh wound?

    $800 is a pretty reasonable ask to fix it.

    As others have said, backyard jobs aren't too bad if the person has experience.

    Is it a metal panel? Will it cause rusting?

    • katykat on 14/04/2020 - 20:41

      Pretty sure it's just a flesh wound. It is a metal panel, specifically the front wheel arch right above the tyre and towards the front bumper and headlight. I wouldn't even know where to start to get a back yard job so will be doing some research in my local area. I'm glad $800 sounds reasonable. To be honest it's more than I want to spend on a 10 year old car but if I can't find someone cheap locally it's not the end of the world.

  • Samsungnote10 on 14/04/2020 - 10:18

    Last year i had a no fault accident, but it could have been seen as 50/50

    I got the other persons overseas drivers license, plus phone number
    Initially they denied even being the driver when.insurance did a follow up. They were insured

    But i had to pay the excess at the start to get my car repaired

    It ended up taking over a year through courts, until I got my excess back,

    But it got me wondering what would have happened had they denied even being there at the time of the accident as i couldn't prove it

    • Euphemistic on 14/04/2020 - 11:09

      Simple: Your car would have been fixed under insurance but you would not have got the excess back.

      • Samsungnote10 on 14/04/2020 - 11:10

        simple it may be, but if this were the case, everyone would be saying "it wasnt me"

        • Euphemistic on 14/04/2020 - 11:53

          Lots of people do deny liability when they are liable. Insurance companies have worked this out and they also don’t want to pay more than they need to. If they can chase another party for costs to cover the damage they will. It’s the whole premise of the insurance industry - finding fault and collecting money.

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