I'm in the market for a family car that is efficient on fuel.
I've seen a few low km Mitsubishi mirage sedans for around $8000.
I'm not too concerned about resale value, we'll keep it till it dies, just want something with a bit of space, cheap to buy and cheap to run/maintain.
Any suggestions?
The mirage gets 4.9L/100
I'm also considering a Prius, which is what we used to have but got written off. I'm very keen to have something with very low mileage given I plan to have the car for 10-15+ years, so the fuel savings will stack up
A Mirage and an Elantra and very different in size. If you can comfortably get the family and everything you need into it, go for that than.
A mirage is not a family car, it is tiny.
It's also slow, loud, tinny and generally awful.
But it's so efficient! Slow doesn't concern me, loud concerns me a bit. What do you mean by tinny?
Maybe my question should have been - Why is a mirage not suitable for my needs?
My partner is pregnant with our first child, so I'm trying to guess what our needs will be. Otherwise we'd be happy with the mirage hatchback, but we're concerned we'll need more space, hence mirage sedan
Hatchbacks often have more actual space than the equivalent sedans. Mirages are tiny no matter the version. Have you actually tried one out? Put a baby seat or pram in it? I imagine with a rearward facing baby seat, the front seat passenger would be almost touching the dashboard.
They aren't even that efficient, considering it has the whole of about 60kw of power. By tinny, I assume he means build quality, which, as with most mitsubishis, is below average. Would also hate to crash one.
No, I have not driven one yet.
I've looked up reviews, it seems that a pram can fit in the back with plenty of space
Good point about the baby seat pushing the front passenger forward, none of the reviews mention how this works.
By build quality, are you saying that the fitout is average (lots of plastic) or that the car is mechanically unreliable?
I think I want tiny to be achievable - I want a small efficient car, is it feasible to do that and have kids?
@Bren20: Yes, it's not only a mitsubishi, but the very cheapest Mitsubishi.
My newer Passat has 130kw and is currently averaging 5.9l/100, that's mainly going to shops and train station. In a car about 3 times as big as the mirage, that everyone inside won't immediately be killed in a crash at 20kmh.
While having an economical car is nice, is it really worth having an absolutely gutless tiny piece of vibratey rubbish? I suggest driving one, they are horrible.
Also, in the "review", the pram fits in the boot, but then nothing else does. Where is your shopping going if you go to the shop with the little one?
@brendanm: Completely agree with this comment. If you don't care about how luxurious or good looking the car is, that's great but don't forget to factor in the ancap safety rating. For a family car, at least buy something with a few passive safety measures, if not active.
@Bren20: A friend of mine ahd one as a one person to the station type car. He also had a rear facing child seat in the passengers side in case he needed to pick his kids up. I tried to get in the front seat one day and had my knees up around my ears while he drive, I’m 181cm tall so not exactly huge. (10min trip so was bearable). It is not a car to have a rear facing seat in the back, unless the missus sits in the drivers rear spot.
@Bren20: I noticed in the photos of that review that the child seat is upright/forward facing. I can tell you from current experience [edit: with a Mazda 3 & Britax something] when they are rearward facing for the first 12 months the seat takes up way more space.
Just something to consider, might be worth trying to align a test drive with a stop at a baby buntings to make sure it's all going to work together.
For a very efficient family, I think any car will do.
For a less efficient family, buy something you can afford.
Family and car and Mirage do not compute.
Do you want s family car (big enough for a pram and the groceries and weekends away with a family? Or do you want the most efficient car you can get?
I suppose I want it all! I want the most efficient car that meets my requirements, and I don't have a great idea on what my requirements are. But feeling lots of negativity on the mirage!
Get a Camry Hybrid then. Actually a good size reliable, great on fuel. Not built like a cheap Chinese you like the mirage.
If I had a penny every time some ozzy recommended a Toyota in a car thread.
Not everyone wants a bucket on wheels.
@nikoris: There's a reason for that, it meets the ops wants. I don't even own a Toyota.
Also, since when is "ozzy" attempted to be used in a derogatory way?
@brendanm: Ozzy is not derogatory. What is derogatory is how much people value reliability over anything else in this country.
Worked wonders for me when I got my amazing non-Toyota/non-Honda used car for literally half the price
@nikoris: Not everyone does. Op specifically stated that he does. Hence the recommendation. I personally own 2 VW's, I like the fuel economy and how they drive. Some people don't care, and simply want a car that will get them to work and back. Different strokes for different folks etc.
@spackbace: This is true, however I've had very few problems with them. Had a 1.9 TDI golf that had no issues at all in 100k km or so, current old Passat has about 400k km on it, I've put probably 150k on it with only having to replace the dmf, doesn't leak a drip of oil or coolant, DSG still going like a champ. Current other Passat have only had for 10k km or so, no issues, but you'd hope not.
Assuming your first child isn’t your last you won’t be keepin a mirage for 10-15 years unless it becomes a second car. More/bigger kids means more space required and a mirage is not going to have space to grow into.
A Mirage sedan isn't going to last 10-15yrs. Or if it does, it will have cost you some serious coin in maintenance.
Now, you're looking at cars around 6-7L/100km right? And looking tiny. You could be looking at all sorts of cars that average 9-10L/100km, but family cars. Think Camry, Commodore, Falcon etc. If this car does 15,000km/yr, that's roughly a 450L difference. Let's say at current costs, it's $450. Less than $10/week. However, you have a larger car with a larger engine which doesn't need to struggle as much, and room for a 2nd kid (do you have plans of more, because you need to allow for it now in your 10-15yr ownership of this car).
My figure comparisons are really worst case, and a small 4-cyl can get close to larger 4-cyl or V6 fuel economy around town, because it needs to be pushed harder.
You need to change your way of thinking. Buy the car that's the right size for your requirements, focus on fuel savings later. Don't be pissed off about too little space because you car-shopped wrong.
so, I've done a lot of research on the back of these posts, and I've found another niche car you are all going to hate - skoda fabia wagon, new for $19k, 4.5L/100km
Is this a bad idea?
Also considering Prius, Mirage sedan, and maybe Camry hybrid
$19k? You just more than doubled your budget!
Wtf?!
I was copping a lot of negativity for the mirage. I can justify spending more now if it'll save me in the long run and get me a functional car
Taking your above example,comparing 4.5L consumption to 9L, and let's put fuel costs at $1.50 over 10 years, that's $10,000. I'd also expect the new car to have less maintenance burden in the short term, and last longer.
Over a 10 years analysis period my budget hasn't actually changed that much compared with your suggestions. Assuming there aren't any massive pitfalls with the fabia wagon
@Bren20: I'm not even going down the path of helping with your suggestions and recommending anything
Basically, your priorities are all wrong, your hope to find a car just by reading up stuff online is all wrong, and your budget is so fluid it's laughable.
Good luck.
@spackbace: My biggest concern is total lifetime cost whole still opting for a low mileage car. I would rather pay more upfront to save in the long run. And if it's slightly more expensive to go for a more fuel efficient car, I will opt for the fuel efficiency from an environmental standpoint.
You are correct that I do not know what I'm after, I asked the question to get an education,and am asking further questions to get a better understanding of why my thinking isn't correct.
In terms of my buying price, I am all over the shop but that's because I have money, but I do not value a car at all - it is purely functional. But I do need a car that meets my requirements, and I do want to do that as cheaply as possible over the entire life of the car. I don't know anything about the costs involved in servicing a Skoda so I asked here. I find it impossible to research this stuff online because everyone seems either entirely positive or entirely negative with very little nuance.
You mentioned that resale has no bearing on your decision, but it absolutely does. Resale value is in part hugely driven by cost of ownership. If a car suffers major depreciation, then it's because people know it will be expensive to maintain.
If you want 10yr ownership, little to no faults, you have to go Japanese. Nothing else will be recommendable. Euro/American etc will break at some point over that time, and cost you money to fix. No one can have their hand on their heart and say otherwise, they would be flat out lying. And really, anyone who looks up "low cost of ownership" online would find that same recommendation. They certainly wouldn't find Mitsubishi, or Skoda.
So forget about just looking at a fuel consumption figure and put some freakin thought into this. Hell, you plan to have this car until your eldest is in year 5! I have no doubt that whatever you buy won't see you past 5-6yrs, due to a growing family and different needs. Baby on the way now doesn't mean you know what your family life will be like in that time period.
Spend $20k now on a Camry Hybrid and see it through for as long as it lasts you, or until you outgrow it or get sick of it. Don't make stupid 10yr decisions, it never happens because it was planned, it happens because it just happens.
@spackbace: thanks for this advice, it is useful.
One of the main reasons I was impressed with the mirage is that I considered it to be a Japanese brand - is it not considered in the same quality class as the bigger brands?
I want to get a car now that will last a long time, so I'm become more attracted to wagons and hatches which I think will be more versatile. Sure, if we have more than two kids our plans will go out the window.
@Bren20: Camry Hybrid. You seem to be set on absolute lowest cost of ownership, which is what this will give. Any of the euros will have a higher cost of ownership.
Go and drive one. See how the space works for you. They've been around for a while now, so you can get an older one, cheaper, or a newer one that's more expensive.
@brendanm: Any recommendations on the Camry hybrid vs Prius? I'd prefer a hatch/wagon as I feel they have more usable space I the boot and can move big things with the fold down seats.
Are their any good sources for comparing the maintenance burden of European vs Japanese cars? Or a rule of thumb?
@Bren20: Go try them and see for yourself what works for you.
I'm a mechanic, own two euro cars currently, have owned plenty of basically everything. Euro cars cost more to maintain. However, they are generally nicer to drive. That's the tradeoff.
You have zero interest in how it drives, and want great fuel economy, reliability, and low cost of ownership. Pretty much a hybrid Toyota nails that. No timing belt, engines are very reliable (you still have to service the petrol engine, some people seem to think you can skip this, not the case), brakes last forever as you will be using regen braking most of the time.
Is that extra $10k+ coming from your super? If it is, it's a very bad idea.
God no,cash on hand
4.5L/100km
Mate.
I think you need to listen to Spackbace's maths here.
The difference over a year will be such a small amount.
Look at cars that consume say, under 6.5L/100km. That will give you a huge range of brands, budgets, and styles.
Narrow it down, look at reviews, drive some. Don't buy a Mirage, they are a dogbox and I wouldn't force one upon my wife and unborn child. Mirages are uncomfortable and underequipped today, I'd hate to picture them in 10 years.
Get something Japanese or Korean, a handful of years old, and with a bunch of creature comforts that will keep you NOT HATING YOUR LIFE when you have to drive this thing for ten years.
VW Golf Stationwagon. I've got a 2011 one, it's alright to drive, you can easily fit a pram in the boot (if you fold the seats down you can even sleep in it) and there's plenty of space in the back. I've gone on road trips with 4 adults in it with no problem. The previous owner had both his kids in it child seats in it.
Ninja edit: If you're worried about it being long, it's shorter than a Commodore sedan.
Everyone always thinks wagons are long. I wanted a wagon for the Mrs, "it's too long!". No, it's basically the same as he sedan but way more space.
"it's too long!"
Did it feel good to hear that for once buddy? 😉
There's a first time for everything 😉.
Most cars are basically the same size. A Camry and a RAV4 are pretty much the same size, one's just higher off the ground.
Actually no, when comparing the newer models, Camry is longer with more passenger room. RAV4 has more cargo space.
@spackbace: Marginally. A lot of people would think a RAV4 is a much bigger car. Not a ~10% bigger boot and ~10% shorter.
@spackbace: Which is pretty much what he said.
I wouldn't value rear passenger room over cargo space. A car that carries a family means kids most of the time, even close to adulthood they tend to be smaller. Even if they are as big as an adult, they can still make do with a little bit tighter space. You know, being kids and all.
Thanks Zephyrus, in all honesty I ignored this post to start with, but reading back over the comments it's pretty much what I've ended up with - a 2012 skoda fabia, pretty much a clone of the golf
Hey! Brilliant mate. Thank god you didn't get a mirage.
I'm glad you're happy with the choice. Ozbargain tip, for a lot of spare parts (especially interior body work), you can buy parts fairly cheaply off Alixpress. The Chinese VW (Which probably fit a Skoda) suppliers seem to have a lot of parts up there. Literally the same quality, just made in the Chinese factory instead of the German factory.
brilliant, I'm looking to put in android auto, i'll hit up aliexpress for the fascia
Skoda Yeti or older Suzuki suv
A lot of small SUV with lots of room under 10k and only 5-7 years old.
This is a bit of a lateral choice but have a look at the Honda Fit Shuttle Hybrid. Bags of room inside but small outer dimensions means its a good family hauler. Its basically a stretched Honda Jazz with the hybrid system from the Honda Insight that was sold here, so they can be serviced and run quite cheaply. These are a little bit more efficient using 3.7l/100km and can be had fairly cheap. Worth a look.
Thanks, this is a great suggestion!
Tesla Model X or Model S has running costs about a fifth of all family cars
If only they were priced like other family cars.
They are. In fact they are cheaper than the equivalent Mercedes models.
That’s pretty funny. I don’t know who would consider a Merc as a normal family car.
@Euphemistic: Heaps of people? The C class and GLC sell thousands of units and are in the top 20 selling cars in Australia.
https://www.caradvice.com.au/817278/vfacts-2019-new-car-sale…
And who the hell said that a Tesla was a family car for everyone? The Model S is a luxury large sedan. It's good value for money for what it is, but it starts at $150k. The Model 3 Starts at $79k which is more palatable for many people, but it's still a luxury/sports sedan.
They are just priced appropriately for their market (cheap even, the P3d is a bargain, and all Model S are bargains).
@[Deactivated]: Sure, they sell well but when you mention family car people are generally referring to something in the Camry or RAV4 class and their equivalent price brackets. It used to be Falcon, Commodore but we know the market has moved on. You are talking about a different price bracket - especially as the OP is considering something in the $10-20k range.
@Euphemistic: That's entirely up to the individual. You're making a blanket statement, that doesn't apply to everyone. For example, the most common car brand on my street, bar none, is a Range Rover (Almost all HSE Sports). The next most common brand is Mercedes (a variety), then Porsche (A variety). No one drives a Camry or Rav 4. I think my neighbour a few doors down has a HSV GTS (one of the later supercharged ones), but he has many cars.
For some reason you seem to think that Luxury cars should be the same price as A-B shopping carts?
@[Deactivated]: Good on you. You obviously live in a normal area with people with average wages. I so envy you with your superior vehicles and obviously premium neighbours.
No I don’t think that luxury cars should be the same price and never said that. My comment is related to what average families can afford and what constitutes an average family vehicle. Tesla’s and Mercedes do not fit that bracket.
@Euphemistic: I do live in a ‘normal’ area. I grew up around here, my parents live down the road, for me this is normal. Who do you think they make these cars for then? They make them for families. We’re not talking Mclarens with two or three seats, we are talking family saloons, wagons and SUVs.
@[Deactivated]: I knew you’d pick up on that. You don’t live in an average area or head space for that matter.
Edit: hang about,
Heaps of people? The C class and GLC sell thousands of units and are in the top 20 selling cars in Australia.
The top selling cars in Australia, from the link you provided does not include a single luxury model. It’s all Toyota, Hyundai etc. sure, when you look at the price individual bracket the Mercs are listed but they do not get into the top 20. C class sold around 6700, VW Golf at position 20 sold over 14000.
The falcon wings are soooo slow . What a gimmick!
Get an older Prius, they are super reliable, great on fuel 4.5 l/100 km or less heaps of room and well equipped, cruise control, etc. I've currently got a 2009 which i bought for $6,500.
Do you know how many KMs it had when you bought it?
OP has lost the plot
Seriously!
With fuel now selling well under $1 per litre its easily the cheapest cost of running a car
OP should be focusing on:
1) Cost on insurance
2) How fast car depreciates
3) Condition of car
4) service record of car
5) Servicing costs
6) Cost of parts including types
7) Overall purchase price of vehicle
All of the above far outweight cost of fuel dear OP
If you want a cheap car then forget about fuel ecomony
FUEL IS A MINIMAL COST OF RUNNING A CAR!
PS COVID-19 restrictions are going to be with us for at least the next 18 months so your not-so-new car aint going very far!
I'm not buying a car for 6 months, I'm buying one for many years. the fuel cost today is a blip and will surely recover post covid
I do not care about depreciation as I do not intend to sell it. Maintenance is a concern but is hard to quantify. But I'm only considering low km vehicles to avoid massive maintenance headaches.
I'll be buying third party only, so cost of insurance shouldn't change appreciably between cars.
I'll be buying third party only
Ohhh this thread gets better 😂
I've just had a look at comprehensive insurance,it's much cheaper than I'd expected, $400/yr as opposed to the $1000+/yr premiums I remember from my uni days. Given that, I would probably opt for the insurance
You want a "Functional" car that doesn't breakdown right? Low insurance cost, and it's fuel efficient? Sorry, this car is not yet invented.
But on a serious note, perhaps you need to define your budget (TCO) and life of the term (length of time) you'll be using this car?
I have a Impreza and the insurance is half priced due to the safety feature of the car ($700). I think your family's safety should be valued much higher than the car itself.
Total Cost of Ownership means to value the cost your family's life also.
II suppose I do have a budget, but it's broad - I'd like to be paying around $10k or less, but would pay more if it made sense to. Certainly no more than $20k.
Length of time is 10-15 years.
TV news reported the dealerships a struggling to find buyers for the cars and willing to provide heavy discounts. Time to go shopping! Just buy a Corolla if it fits your budget.
FWIW business has picked up massively here! And seems to be the story around town as well
I have a BMW X3 diesel that gets 7L/100km. You can get the X1 for a good price as it is smaller but probably still big enough for your needs at the moment.
Maybe something else to consider anyway and they are nice looking cars!
Just get a Corolla and be done with it
Update post
So I test drove the mirage a few weeks back, it was very noisy, much worse than anticipated!
Test drove a 2011 prius as well, it was fine but such a boring car. It's like they tried to make it futuristic at the time but it is just so dated now.
I bought a second hand skoda fabia wagon yesterday for $6000, 2012 model with 70000km, mileage is stated as 5.3L/100km. I feel like it was a pretty good deal, the seller was leaving Australia today due to Covid to return to his family. Got a roadworthy and service on it today, and transferred into my name. The decision came down to this or the Prius, but the seller was at $12500 on the prius so I couldn't justify the additional costs.
Although the Skoda is a 2012 model and the compliance date is October 2012, the logbook says that dealer delivery was April 2014 - what could be the reason for this?
Also, I'm comparing third party insurance policies (it's not worth it for comprehensive), I get a $380 quote for AAMI, and a $250 quote for RACV - does anyone have any particular recommendation for one over the other? Obviously RACV is the front runner for me, a moderate look over the PDS and it seems the coverage is similar between the two.
Thanks for the help, I did think there were some good comments in amongst the general vibe of me being an idiot.
A second hand 10 year old VW group car, which itself is based off the previous generation of VW, so a 15 year old designed, 10 year old built VW? Good luck with that. Let's just hope to God you didn't buy the 1.4L engine, and that it doesn't have the dry clutch DSG.
Yep, 1.2, but has the DSG.
I think it's a good buy. Cheap enough that if it only lasts for 5 years it isn't a big loss, but i still expect it to give us 10+ years
Really unlikely
the seller was leaving Australia
Please tell me you did a $2 PPSR?
Although the Skoda is a 2012 model and the compliance date is October 2012, the logbook says that dealer delivery was April 2014 - what could be the reason for this?
Car sat around for that long waiting for a new owner lol welcome to euro cars ;)
yeah, I was a bit worried I was walking in to a trap! Here's a list of the red flags I was worried about
It all makes sense in the context (except maybe for the cash), he was going back to Turkey and there's only a limited number of flights, he only found out the flight was available last week so he was in a massive rush. He wasn't planning on leaving this soon, but plans change due to Covid. I was in a similar position, I've been living in London but upped stumps with a weeks notice.
Did the $2 check, made sure to do it as I was signing the paperwork to make sure anything dodgy didn't go down
My Elantra gets on average about 7L/100Km.