Virgin Charter Flights

antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 19:12
Last edited 17/08/2020 - 19:18

after reading comments in another thread, thought this idea, deserved another thread.

Virgin has been saying they won't be doing international for a few years.

Why couldn't virgin have charter flights, with a stripped down virgin product, just for international flights to for example Fiji, maybe just in high season.

Maybe less baggage, no free food or drinks, with junior flight attendants & pilots on lower pay scale.

Virgin are going to employing less people. Many pilots & flight attendants will be unemployed.

Why not employ them on some sort of part time EBA, maybe through a separate entity, sort of like at Jetstar, but instead use Virgin aircraft, at times of the week, when not busy on high yielding flights, such all day Saturday, Sunday morning & between peak hour Mon to Fri, say 8.30am to 4pm.

Looking back before corona hit, think virgin used to fly daily from BNE, SYD & MEL to NAN Fiji & in peak times, they used to put on extra flights & sometimes even used a widebody jet.

Fiji will be desperate for tourists & Fiji airlines, will probably not be able to meet demand.

In past Jetstar have flown up to 3 or 4 times a week SYD to NAN. IIRC some of flights left SYD just before curfew started & must have arrived in Fiji at 4am.

Fiji airlines before corona, did red eye flights out of BNE few days a week & almost daily out of MEL, departing just before midnight.

Red eyes Friday & Saturday nights could work, as even if a delay coming home, not effecting Mon to Fri am domestic peak hour flights.

Even if they only did a few flights Saturdays during day from each port & one early Sunday am, they people could have either 6 or 7 nights in Fiji. If they wanted to do less, they could fly home with another airline, Fiji airlines, Jetstar or Qantas.

Would also be popular with velocity frequent flyers & those with virgin credits.

Could work to places that are thin routes, which otherwise might have no direct service.

Provides employment at both ends & means they can offer more destinations.

Employers of Virgin charters could aim to eventually work for main virgin airline, at higher rates of pay.

Poll Options

  • 5
    virgin should do it (win-win at both ends)
  • 14
    virgin should not do it
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Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2020 - 19:52

    They never made a profit on their internation flights…. sounds like a sound business model.

    • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:23
      +1

      yes old Virgin did make money on their international flights. Some routes more profitable than other. Some NZ flights were not that profitable due to so much competition.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2020 - 07:07
        -1

        Good on you for caring though OP, unclear why you are so loayal to them, sounds like you're a virgin tragic sipping on the cool-aid.

  • Zephyrus on 17/08/2020 - 19:59
    +1

    They have to have the planes for it and there's lot of competitors. You also have to fly the plane back.

    Airlines schedules are heavily influenced by aircraft utilisation.

    • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:24
      +1

      plenty of aircraft & little or no competition whatsoever on some routes Virgin to fly.

    • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:38
      +1

      to be successful a series of charters, most need to fill aircraft in both directions, not necessarily to 100% load factor, but any empty seats are lost revenue (so often deals on last few seats at last minute if any left, whereas scheduled legacy airlines, usually charge a lot more for the last few seats, as in general business travellers will pay much more than leisure travellers.

      Plenty of spare time for all aircraft, Saturday, Sunday until probably 3pm & Mon to Fri between morning & evening peak hours, which roughly means between around 8am & 4pm. (most business people want to be well on their way by 6 or 7am & want to come home after 4pm.

      For leisure most people want to travel on or near weekends.

      So for short haul, say to Fiji or NZ, many might wish to do a 6, 7 or 8 night holiday, ie.depart Sat or Sun, return Sat or Sun, as most people still work Mon-Fri & that would mean only 5 days off a normal work week.

      • Zephyrus on 18/08/2020 - 09:54

        Do you actually understand what a charter flight is?

        It's where a third party pays for the flight to be run, then get to do with it what they want i.e. sell seats. Virgin (and Qantas) still offer charter flights, as do a whole bunch of other operators.

        It sounds a lot more like what you're suggesting is that a travel agent should set up holidays with charter flights. i.e. they pay for the whole plane, dictating when it leaves and where it goes, not paying per a seat on a schedule flight.

        Anyone could do this if they wanted to, and other countries (especially in Europe) do this sort of thing. Virgin can't charter their own planes though, that's just not what that term means.

        • antifigjammer on 18/08/2020 - 10:33
          +1

          yes fully understand charter flights.

          Virgin has a lot of pilots/cabin crew who won't be employed.

          They could offer them part time work, on a lower pay scale or contract flying, which is better than nothing, as many crews around the world will be sitting around doing no flying for maybe a couple of years or they simply retire early.

          Charter means different things domestically & internationally (totally different rules)

          Rather than scheduled every week of the year, they could operate an airline within an airline. Like Jetstar, is to Qantas, but not using different aircraft, same AOC. So have a ULCC or LCC on weekends from Friday night late perhaps, but not Sunday night.

          Busy times like school holidays is when fares are most expensive. Many will do anything to save money at these times, especially in a recession, as the cheapest fares can be 2 to 3 times low season fares, so maybe back of clock or VERY early am, could work.

          Recently looked at fares BNE to LAX return in peak season next year. Variation was from $1000 to $2650. The $1000 fare was 1 stop, change of aircraft with over 4 hours between flights outbound & 2 hours inbound. The $2650 was nonstop both ways.

          • Zephyrus on 18/08/2020 - 11:55

            @antifigjammer: So you're trying to say they should start a low cost airline? They literally just shut down their low cost airline that did exactly as you said.

            • antifigjammer on 18/08/2020 - 12:14

              @Zephyrus: no, but suggest they should use their new fleet more. Increase utilisation.

              Southwest, biggest U.S. domestic airline, famously soon after they start back in 1970s, were running out of cash. IIRC they had 4 x B737s & sold one for cash injection & had to make do with 3 x B737s for a 4 aircraft schedule. They simply decided to do fast turns. Other airlines thought they couldn't but they did.

              I think they turned around roughly 120 seats B737s (must have been B737-200s) in 20 mins.

              This meant the aircraft were in the air making money, not sitting at airports.

              Similarly, Virgin could possibly use aircraft more - red eyes (late Mon, Fri, Sat nights), weekends (not Sunday night when busy). Basic maintenance can be done anytime, so could be done on other 4 nights of week, for jets used in charters.

              Virgin Australia were high cost, not quite as high cost as Qantas. Virgin Blue were lower cost.

              Virgin Australia isn't shut down, it's in admin & still flying everyday. Huge difference.

              • Zephyrus on 18/08/2020 - 13:08

                @antifigjammer: No Tiger Air was their low cost carrier. It's gone. They literally did what you said, high utilisation, fast turnarounds, didn't wait for passengers.

                Even then, it's shut down and didn't make money.

                You make it sound like there's a massive untapped market for charter flights that they're just ignoring. This simply isn't the case, they were always open to chartering their planes out.

        • Hereandnow432 on 18/08/2020 - 19:08

          think what they mean is virgin used to operate 20 something flights a week to Fiji & so without virgin flying there, there is a huge gap in the market.

          Charters are probably cheaper than scheduled flights, inhouse or external.

          We're in a recession, people still want to travel, but dollars are of more concern than ever, so cheaper flights to somewhere like Fiji, would be popular, or would Jetstar move in to replace virgin ?

          Sounds like if virgin don't do something jetstar might move in, if allowed by traffic rights restrictions.

          Is there a limit on number of international charters over a set period ?

          Is Virgin don't use their traffic rights, how long before they are lost completely.

          To me, Jetstar has a terrible name & would prefer not to fly them.

          A

          There is obviously huge pent up demand for all overseas destinations.

  • WreckTangle on 17/08/2020 - 20:09

    Do they even still own the landing slots?

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/08/2020 - 20:14

    It isnt a bad idea but im pretty sure i know jetstar (and previously tiger) only took to the air if a flight is >75% full to ensure profit margins - they would literally cancel a flight 2 hours prior if it wasnt….the same thing could work for popular international flights maybe?

    HOWEVER
    Pretty sure they said they were not going to be a budget airline post take over - i might be wrong but it sounds to me like they are focusing on higher cost flights opposed to low cost no trills airfares - im not sure how you make virgin profitable - the 'airline' industry as a whole actually runs at a loss every year….it is why i'd never own stock in any airline

    • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:27
      +2

      no airline cancels flights just because they only have 75% load factor.

      FYI
      A flight that has only 50% load factor, can have much more yield than a full aircraft, if the 50% aircraft has lots of business people paying high fares.

      A full aircraft doesn't mean profit. Airline could have sold some seats at a loss to fill aircraft & avoid a larger loss.

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/08/2020 - 23:31

        they re-arrange flight times all the time so they dont exactly cancel but essentially merge flights…. and pretty sure most jetstar domestic doesnt have a business class…
        '

        • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:47
          +1

          all airlines merge flights.

          eg. if Qantas has a 7am & 7.15am flight SYD/MEL & neither full & total number of passengers is less than could fit on one aircraft, they might cancel one, being careful not to annoy very frequent flyers or business fare passengers.

          Qantas has so many flights from SYD to MEL & vice versa Mon-Fri peak hour, they could easily cancel one without major dramas. They might have a 6am, 6.30am, 6.45am, 7am, 7.15am, 7.30am, so reducing these 6 flights to 5 might not be annoying to any, especially when many passengers on these flights are probably sitting in qantas club having breakfast/coffee.

          The proposed new Bain owned Virgin, if it goes ahead, with have some sort of business class.

          • Muzeeb on 18/08/2020 - 00:18

            @antifigjammer:

            Qantas has so many flights

            Qantas had so many flights

            FTFY

    • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:41
      +1

      plan for virgin mark 2 at present is to be full service like Qantas, not like Virgin Blue or Jetstar, but cheaper than Qantas. What suggesting here is to have a separate division, using aircraft when not busy (Sat, Sun before 3pm, Mon-Fri 8am to 3 or 4pm) for international charters, as without virgin on international, there's a lot less competition.

      • Muzeeb on 18/08/2020 - 00:19

        What's your job? You seem keen on aviation.

  • Clear on 17/08/2020 - 23:05

    Somewhat unrelated but Virgin (in my state) have been using their empty seats for freight. We joke that each passenger getting off has to carry some of the freight and if they want to keep it well… they can.

    • antifigjammer on 17/08/2020 - 23:30
      +1

      freight is money & can cross subsidise passenger fares, so an airline might break even on passenger fares, but overall make a profit due to freight revenue.

      Some airlines limit free checked baggage weights, so they can carry more freight, or charge more for checked baggage.

      • Clear on 18/08/2020 - 00:02

        They're making a decent profit with the FIFO workers that's for sure. I'm just waiting to see how long it'll take for COVID to spike given there are 10+ flights a week.

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