One of the race favorites euthanised after breaking down during the race.
Anthony Van Dyck was ridden by star jockey Hugh Bowman, who on the eve of the race dismissed concerns about the massive weight the horse was carrying in the Cup.
I know it's over for another year, but say nup to the cup!
@whooah1979: I think thats the end of this conversation, given your moral compass is way off the norm.
Imagine being so desensitized to animal cruelty that you condone an industry built on animal cruelty and use false equivalence to justify your arguments
TLDR?
Woah
I think its meant to be read out in the hurried style if a horse racing broadcaster, one long breath, one long sentence, inexplicable emphasis on random parts of the torrent of commentary.
Some people are passionate about speaking quickly and watching animals run in a circle. Seems a waste of both a horse and a person if you ask me.
Very well written post against horse racing based on vegan values.
That is, collectively, the longest-drawn bow I've ever seen.
It's not a sport, it's an industry. That kills the horses when they abuse them so badly they "break down".
Some people aren't OK with having horses killed for their amusement. Some of those people choose to exercise their democratic right to highlight the issues, presumably to encourage a change in the legislation. So in that part - "that's what legislation and democracy is there for" I agree with you.
For the record, I'm not one of the protestors and don't personally know anyone who is but the idea that horse racing is key to the economy so people who don't support it want higher unemployment blahblahblah… Spare me. What absolute bullshit.
Umm, it's not the same as choosing to eat meat for food.
Racing would be more like dogfighting than keeping livestock for work or nutrition.
To be fair, that is their only sound point.
Seems pretty clear by now that humans can survive and thrive on a plant based diet, so choosing to eat animals is generally for amusement or convenience.
Although it has little philosophical merit, I think the argument that "eating meat is our nature, we are omnivores after all".
I find myself in the strange position of being a meat eater, but knowing I probably wouldn't kill the animal myself, for moral reasons rather than mere avoidance of getting my hands dirty.
The contradictions we carry in this life, hey?
The contradictions we carry in this life, hey?
I think it's important to recognise we have a choice in the matter, that same strange position you find yourself in is the same that I was in some years' ago. I never considered myself a hypocrite, so when I asked myself if I could work a day at a slaughterhouse and came back with a rather emphatic no after seeing footage of one, I chose to align my actions with my ethics.
Less contradictions in my life has made me see a lot of human nature a lot more clearly, it's quite refreshing.
There is of course a line that everyone has to draw as to how much of an impact they are willing to have on other human and non-human animals, as simply leading your day to day life impacts everything around you. But choosing not to pay someone to literally slit a throat on my behalf seemed like a pretty sound place to start, it all sounds very extreme to me now.
@Bargain Hunter 007: I find much that I agree with in your words. Yet I kind of just refuse on some basic level to live without meat in my diet.
I gravitate less towards beef as I age, and am more interested in fish (and kangaroo). But with overfishing (and "collateral damage of commercial fishing) there are issues with being a pescatarian.
Maybe as I evolve my behaviours will better manifest my as yet unexpressed alignment with a graceful and gentle life. I hope so. I'm getting there in other ways.
@ozbjunkie: imho fish is worse than beef.
We raise cows to eat. We mostly look after their welfare quite well tbh (at least until the slaughterhouse).
We use massive fishing trawlers that destroy the ocean to hunt down nature and when we have destroyed it in one place the fishing industry and pro fishing countries pay bribes to destroy it in another area.
Fish farms are also bad places.- check out Fillet-Oh-Fish movie.
Spoken like a horse racing lobbyist
I highly recommend watching this report from the abc in relation to the horse racing industry - very sad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp-ALoBRW20
Time to introduce "Virtual Reality" racing
Here is a rather old report from 2003 on gambling revenue but it’s useful to highlight the high amount of state revenue raised. Specifically horse racing was taxed 18% on gambling revenue. This with other forms of gambling taxation contributed 11% of Victoria’s state revenue. So yes gambling contributes significantly to the broader economy. Gambling in general also employs many people. All the wages of people employed are also paid from gambling revenue.
https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/ageing/technicalpa…
I'm all for taxing the stupid, especially the stupid rich.
It's a pretty low tax though, far below corporate tax rates.
I recommend you read the 2010 productivity commission report instead. There's also research that shows that more jobs are created from food and beverage rather than gaming when thinking about sports TABs and pokies.
On the whole, sure these jobs contribute, just as any other jobs do. Doesn't mean it's sustainable or outweighs the harms.
Gambling does Not employ many people based on the revenue it receives (150,000, which is 0.006% of Aust population).
I am unsure how the revenue is to amature sports and other cultural 'events', etc, but considering Parents pay sports dues probably not a massive amount.
It does provide a massive windfall to State government. And state Govs are Desperate for ALL revenue. Which is probably the real reason why it will never get banned.
An industry article on the contribution to the economy:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.racenet.com.au/news/stud…
150,000 jobs. $9b contribution to the economy. $0.5b directly to state governments, mostly Victoria and NSW.
"An economic impact study commissioned by Racing Australia…" hahahaha
For comparison AFL only creates about 4000 full time jobs. Estimated to contribute about $4b to the economy. Horse racing is a far larger employer and contributed to to the economy.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/v…
For starters, that source is literally comissioned by Racing Australia and is full of bias/exaggeration, bu it also fails to account for all manner of other public cost factors such as the impact of problem gambling, alcoholism, and the economic impact of subsidy via public holiday.
But that aside, the "comparison" is weak anyway. The state government pushes the cup hard - heck, they literally set aside a public holiday for it. It doesn't just have massive interest, fanfare and investment in a vaccuum. It's been engineered that way, and if we had the will o do it for some other (ethical) sport, it wouldn't be hard.
I always laugh when people use evidence that is clearly biased. Like people who say property doubles every 7 years and shares are gambling by citing an article from Domain lol. I mean really….
If you dont like horse racing, dont watch it. If enough people stop watching it, the industry will eventually close.
The fact that horse racing is so popular in Australia shows that the majority (in fact most) people don't care.
These are the facts.
Don't care? Or don't realize?
Don't care. Animals die, people die.
I would dare to say that if the day wasn't a public holiday it wouldn't be nearly as popular.
If we had a national/state level 'watching paint dry contest' on a public holiday it would be a smash hit.
We could place bets on which colour dries first.
While huddling in front of the telly in our trackies
STRAYA
I doubt it. I think people DO care.
I just think its in the interests of State Gov to push it because they receive a massive windfall for it.
Mining is a very large contributor financially, contributing almost $200b to the economy yet still only employs about 200,000 people.
Comparing these three we can see that horse racing contributes to the economy more than AFL football and very human resource intensive employing nearly as many people as mining at 150,000 full time jobs. Most of these jobs in regional areas.
If you were to decimate horse racing and stop the industry you would have many regional communities facing increased unemployment, less state revenue for human services and education and possibly higher taxes. You can disagree all you want due to animal welfare issues but I have provided some information to inform points of view.
The ABC news story was important and things can be improved however I don’t think destroying an industry that provides lots of government revenue for welfare, education etc. and thousands of jobs is the right solution.
https://www.minister.industry.gov.au/ministers/frydenberg/sp…
If you could replace horse racing with an equal amount of employment in the regional areas then great. Would those who dislike the industry prefer we export more livestock? Take more water from the Murray darling basin for irrigation? It’s too simplistic to say horse racing is bad. Nobody likes it, especially the people in the industry, when a horse dies while competing.
"Nobody likes it, especially the people in the industry, when a horse dies while competing."
Lets stop the bs. There is massive 'wastage' in the industry. Wastage is killing horses that don't/can't compete. If the industry gave a s**t they would retire horses after competing. They Don't. They care when it looks bad "while competing" because it reminds people of the unfortunate truth of the industry.
Also its NOT 150,000 - its 70,000 'DIRECTLY' employed (coming from an Industry sponsored research paper!!!).
(A Massive 0.00012% of the population).
Of that most are paid low rates. Especially compared to the mining industry.
Plus we need the mining industry - we certainly do Not need horse racing. ($200Billion in economic value, compared to $9Bn of which most goes to the well heeled that own racehorses).
We could easily ban it and people could transfer to other jobs, etc probably in farming.
We don't ban it, because it provides $500M to State Gov and they are Desperate for Any revenue.
The state government need revenue to pay for services. If they can't get it from sporting revenue then they have to get it from other sources like duty, GST, levies, etc.
Yes.
I would be happy to pay for an increase in the GST of 0.1% to ban horse racing and greyhound racing.
So thats a 10.1% GST.
Seems A BIG increase.
Actually it would leave an additional $200M in the State Gov coffers which is A BIG increase.
@whooah1979: Yes maths is HARD.
10% Gst = $70,000,000,000.00
1% Gst = $7,000,0000,000.00
0.1% GST = $700,000,000.00
LOL.
Racing provided $500M to State Gov.
As HARD, I will help you out:
7-5 = 2.
LOL.
$200M could go to fighting and treating Cancer.
LOL.
I can't work out how much adding a 0.1% increase to your big mac will be because HARD, but if we were ok with 10% - 0.1% should be ok.
LOL.
???.
@Other: You've happy with a 0.1% increase in GST. What do you think the 25m other Australians would feel about paying more taxes?
@whooah1979: I don't think most people will give a s**t paying an 0.1% increase in tax considering:
We are reducing gambling in the community
We are reducing gambling addiction in the community
We are getting rid of a sport that is already dying and being killed off in other parts of the World (what % of young people are interested in it?).
A sport that really only benefits the top 1% (AND getting rid of all the tax deductions and other BS that they claim).
$200M be injected into treating people with Cancer and finding a cure for Cancer is probably worth it.
For a shitty 0.1% increase! - where the f**k do I sign up?????????????????????????????????????
@Other: Nobody wants to pay more taxes. There isn't a single post on Ozb asking how they can pay more taxes. All they want to know is how they can claim XYZ on their tax return.
@whooah1979: And yet the Howard Government came to power promising the largest tax increase in Australia's history! wtf!
People are more than happy to pay for something as long as the benefits outweigh the costs.
That's why people vote in politicians who propose sovereign funds, which are funded through TAX! wtf!
Hell, in a vote in US State (can't remember) 70% of people voted to outlaw greyhound racing even though it would cost them more in tax!
@whooah1979: Norway have the best standards of living and happiness in the world yet they pay one of the highest tax rates in the world because it knows it benefits the country as a whole. Just imagine if Australia taxed the (profanity) out the mining industry (Rudd tried, but the neoliberals & mining industry lobbyists denied it) how much our sovereign wealth fund would increase for the average aussie? Ten folds. We would be laughing to the bank. It’s no wonder the average Norwegian is sitting on a goldmine of wealth
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA
Can anyone comment on whether it is truly necessary to a put a horse down when it breaks a leg? Any vets here?
A horse that can't run, can't make money.
I was thinking about that too but if that's the reason then I don't like the answer. Can't horses be pets?
Dogs don't get put down when they have broken leg
Horses are high maintenance even in full health. Maybe there is room for a charity to step in and release them intoa paddock somewhere, but not the owners.
Often the owner of the horse isn't caring for the animal, they only receive the monthly invoice.
@greatlamp: "Often the owner of the horse isn't caring for the animal, they only receive the monthly invoice."
What a disgrace
This is some real ignorant shit posting.
Yeah useless animal, that's the way of the world
It’s not useless if you need to eat a horse jizz smoothie and the horse can still jizz.
There's an article about it here - https://www.thesprucepets.com/horses-with-a-broken-leg-18868…
I'm sure there are plenty more online.
I think they can save some horses depending on the break, but it's really, really rare and I'd imagine the kind of break that would happen during a horse race would not be something they can do anything about. I imagine they are the more catastrophic breaks and shatterings that a horse just can't recover from. So unfortunately it looks like it is necessary to put the horses down in these cases, which is really sad.
Thanks for the reference.
Horse can't recover on 3 legs. They weight too much and causing painful problems on weightbearing. And they have to weightbear. you cant even knock them for 3 months to let all injuries heal. May as well shoot them in the head and end the misery for both horse and owners.
Has anyone else noticed that channel 7 ads are becoming more and more focused on gambling?
It's insidious how they're doing it. They also added a channel on FTA that is full time horse racing.
That's just sick. Why not start advertising cigarettes as well.
It is called sports.
Gambling is called sports now? I thought it was still called gambling.
Horse racing.
@whooah1979: It's hardly a sport though, is it? It's made for gambling, not watching like a traditional sport. Also, a dedicated channel? Really?
In any case, I was referring to the increased advertising for gambling. Australia has a big problem with gambling, especially those who cannot afford it. It's preying on the weak.
@imurgod: The advertising of gambling is prohibited in NSW. Other states may have similar laws.
Airing FTA sports races, matches, events, etc, in not advertising.
@whooah1979: That can't be right considering there are literally ads for every bookie out there, tab, Ladbrokes, etc.
I'm in nsw.
not watching like a traditional sport.
Equestrianism is older than the Federation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot_racing#Early_chariot_r…
@whooah1979: Equestrian is not the same.
Horse racing (and dogs, etc.) are mainly for gambling purposes.
Do people even bet in equestrian?
@imurgod: May be you should edit the wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrianism
Equestrianism (from Latin equester, equestr-, equus, 'horseman', 'horse'),[2] commonly known as horse riding (British English) or horseback riding (American English),[3] includes the disciplines of riding, driving, or vaulting with horses. This broad description includes the use of horses for practical working purposes, transportation, recreational activities, artistic or cultural exercises, and competitive sport.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_racing
Horse racing is an equestrian performance sport,
@whooah1979: Sorry, what was the point you were making?
I think you're a little off topic because you're so furious that you're missing the point.
I didn't want to bring it up before, but you didn't understand the difference between and ad and airing sports earlier. I let that one go for you but you should probably comprehend the point before responding.
I get it, you get erect over gambling and horses and probably hang out at the TAB being super successful and classy.
Relax, take a breath and you just do you. I am happy for you.
Foxtel has Poker on sports channels… anything is a sport these days…
@pharkurnell: Lol that is true.
I once even saw people playing pokies against each other…. A game of chance! Hilarious.
I suppose "reality" TV is super popular too.
We really are becoming Idiocracy as a society.
nothings wrong with gambling if you keep on winning. Bring the house down.
Don't mind if I do.
Thanks.
Would you rather be reincarnated as a racehorse or the chicken in your bucket of KFC?
kfc chicken because I know I won't be a disappointment when I'm fried into 12 delicious pieces of fried chicken
I always get 3 or 4 drumsticks in the bucket. I wonder who they belong to.
2 wings, 2 thigh, 2 drum sticks, 2 breast, 2 tenders. 2 unidentified parts.
We don't eat horse in Australia, but it isn't a disappointment, certainly superior to kangaroo.
Why is this encouraged?
There's just no remorse or conscience when it comes to winning or losing some money, its like gambling has enthralled the Australian public and people just become sheep……
I do hope karma prevails in the end, perhaps give these people a dose of the suffering endured by the horses - and more.
May karma come swift and mercilessly
Why is this encouraged?
Because it provided State Governments with $500m in revenue.
Most things people do is for money so that goes for all animal related gambling activities.
Vocal activists advocate for anything to deal with animals. Horse Racing, Farms with animals as the primary producers etc etc. You really can't please them so when people give in to one demand, it'll be a domino effect and they essentially will give in to all demands.
It's like a dog at the dog park today, the dog comes up to you and barks so people would throw the ball.
Because people respond to the barking, it associates barking at people (a negative behavior) with getting what they want. So it will begin to do it more and more often.
So the owner decides to leash the dog which the dog doesn't want so it runs away. So every time the dog barks at people, the owner will try to leash the dog and very soon after, the dog doesn't come around barking at people.
So what is the life lesson here? Don't bother people and don't push your agenda. They won't give in to your agenda and may as well do the opposite. I have an 80% vegetable and 20% meat diet 6 years ago. Now I have a 20% vegetable and 80% meat diet. I didn't want the meat to disappear so I've been eating more meat and my blood pressure is off the charts. Many people push their agenda in many categories, whilst they may be 100% correct, I wouldn't care and rather choose to align myself against them or distance myself from them because they're simply annoying. Negativity doesn't bring change, Positivity does.
Meat isn't going to disappear, it's going to become too expensive for most to afford (well beef at least)
There is something wrong when the horses die every year
.. I bet on horse races in other countries and a horse dying is a rare occurrence. I think the authorities for too creak on that jockey for too much whipping. He gets away with a fine and some slap on the wrist while an animal is gone. The jockey should face a life ban
Wanna try this one again mate?
The authorities got to crack on that jockey
Yes get his number
I was never really into it but didn't mind it either; like other peoples' thing. But started going more against it when it became rather clear that it was a "sport"with very little respect for it's athletes. That's more on the crowd and basis of the event. If it was humans dying regularly as this even when completely voluntarily the event probably would've been cancelled by now.
If they really did respect the horse competitors it certainly doesn't show in the broadcasts or how attendees acted. Good ol money and a piss up helps with crocodile tears I guess.
Race cars not horses
Because the fossil fuel burning is more natural and healthier right
Full races, more entertaining than seeing horses shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RslKVVSRPSU&list=PLiSlrzIEN5…
And the obvious fix for this issue is to reduce the length of all horse races to max of 2400m
Big call, tough call… I’d be looking to can steeple before 2 mile races…
Yeah I'd just love to see the stats on how many horses are breaking down during the longer races.
As long as there's a public holiday I don't really care if they have it or not
You = 99% of the population.
And yet Steggles kills millions of animals, who haven't had as nice a life as a prized racehorse, for us to enjoy. Anyone also saying nup to nuggets?
@whooah1979: I can't say I've noticed a difference in the brands I've chosen for tooth paste, it used to be difficult getting them with fluoride if that's your thing but Grants has a range of flavours and now has an option with fluoride, it's also an Australian company.
Shampoo and conditioner are now quite common to have no animal testing and generally the ingredients are default plant based unless they include honey/milk in them for marketing purposes.