Body Corporate being overly restrictive on renovations?

LLongtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 19:24

Hi All,

We've recently purchased an appartment in Sydney and are looking to complete some renovations so that we can finally move out and enjoy a life in our own home. As we are knocking down an internal wall we have had a structural engineer write a report to certify works, weve supplied all contractor details and we feel like We've ticked every box required by strata and the body corporate.

Whilst waiting for approval for "minor renovations" w we made the mistake of making a bit too much noise on a Saturday from about 10am to 5:30pm where we were removing some cupboards, sanding doors and drilling in some shelves. At 530 my partner was told off by one of the appartment owners (who also happens to be a committee member) who was so mind to enlighten us that there are rules and regulations to be followed. We said all sorry, all good, we made a mistake and we stopped making noise and headed home. (We work Monday to Friday and can't complete any work during the week.

This week we finally got approval for our minor renovations on the condition that we only took 4 days and did not make any noise on Saturdays. Checking the Bi Laws, it states that except as otherwise approved by the owners corporation, be carried out only
between the hours of 7:30am and 5:30pm (excluding on any day that is a
Saturday, Sunday or public holiday in New South Wales) or between 8:30 am and
Midday on a Saturday;

My question is, is it unreasonable for them to restrict us from making noise for renovations on Saturdays?

Also, given that owners of a property essentially own only the airspace within an appartment, whos responsibility is it to have information and test things such as asbestos in vermiculite ceilings?

Thanks in advance!

Home & Garden

Comments

  • oscargamer on 19/11/2020 - 19:45
    +11

    Just do what they ask. It's not that onerous. Unless you want to make enemies before you even move in…….

    • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 19:50

      Thats the plan, we are not confrontational people, we generally like to follow the rules and keep the peace. It's just a little frustrating that the only time we can renovate is during the week. Practically it means it will take us a few extra weeks and or cost us a few extra thousand organising tradies to do jobs I could otherwise manage on Saturdays between 8 and 12.

      • oscargamer on 19/11/2020 - 19:56
        +13

        Well that's the joys of strata living…….

      • Master Bates on 19/11/2020 - 19:58
        +10

        Welcome to apartment living. You must be considerate of other residents and their right to enjoy a quiet weekend.

        It sucks, but the option is there for you to take leave and do your bit during the week.

        • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 20:22

          Totally get it, and we can see it from both ends dont want to be overly intrusive and won't normally be making noise etc. I guess I though it would be reasonable for us to do necessary renovations within the existing Bi Laws requirements.

  • whooah1979 on 19/11/2020 - 20:02
    +1

    This week we finally got approval for our minor renovations

    Can the OC revoke the approval?

    • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 20:18

      Im not sure, can they? We are new to Strata living.:)

  • brad1-8tsi on 19/11/2020 - 20:38

    I think the saturday noise restriction is unreasonable as it contravenes the bi-law allowance.

    What do they define as noise? How many dB at what distance and for how long?

    What do they define as "4days"? Is that 4 days of work in total? or 8 half days or 4 days of "noise" plus other non-noisy work?

    The asbestos check is part of the WHS responsibilities of the contractor. If detected, the subsequent management is on you as you are the one that is disturbing the ceiling material. If the ceiling has got to the point where it is flaking and losing material then it's a body corporate issue.

    How will the saturday restriction add weeks if it's on;y a 4 day build and saturday is only worth 4 hrs?

    I would recommend you get involved in the committee ASAP as it can be a little kingdom for a select few that have very closed minds. Our apartment block has 8 units and 7 of us are on the BC. It works really well for us. We start a renovation in Feb. 6-8 weeks. No protests.

    • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 21:05

      Cheers for the detailed response, I tend to agree with the contradiction of the bi-law and can't help but think that the neighbour who told us off is being vindictive even though it was a genuine mistake and we ceased making noise and apologised.

      The 4 days is for trades who will work during the week on minor renovations (drop ceilings and wall knock down). We were told by our contractor that it would take four days, and thus reflected this in our application. Our condition from BC was that we stuck to these 4 full days which is already one concern we had.

      Separate to that we asked for approval for the following which I'll be installing. Floating floors, installing a wall cabinet, some shelves and a new shower screen all which will require drilling, sawing and some hammering. doing this ourselves will save a few thousand dollars Im expecting it might take about 12 - 16 hours total, most of which will need to be done before we move in. If I could work on the appartment over the next 3/4 Saturdays, it would mean we we could move in before Christmas.

      We thought we would be doing people a favour by making noise on Saturdays 8-12 rather than requiring extra midweek days but apparently that's not the case!

      Our appartment has 42 lots and the strata plan has 3 equivalent buildings on the same plan. I think getting on the committee will be high on our agenda, it seems as though some of the people currently in ours have a little too much time on their hands…

      Thanks again :)

  • Donaldhump on 19/11/2020 - 20:49
    +7

    theres 5 levels of government in life

    federal
    state
    local
    strata
    spouse

    easiest one to avoid is strata.

    just do it monday to friday, as far as time taken, i doubt they can whinge much

  • Seraphin7 on 19/11/2020 - 21:10
    +1

    There's a lot going on in the OP that's tangled around itself there.

    Trying to cut through it all, it sounds like you live in a block where there is a particularly officious committee … that's the luck of the draw.

    To be fair, no one wants their neighbour doing renovations, etc. going on over a weekend (probably don't want it going on at any time TBH, but that's another story). Whether they are allowed to restrict you to mid-week, etc. is up for debate (IANAL), but even if you get full bang for your buck you only get a half day on Saturdays anyway. You seem to be suggesting there is at least 4 full days work to be done, so you're going to be at this for 8 weeks? For the sake of getting the job done, you may want to look at alternatives in any event.

    Regarding the ceiling asbestos/vermiculite etc, as noted above IANAL, but having dealt with strata more than I ever wanted to, my initial interpretation would be the ceiling would be "owned" by the strata who is then responsible for its maintenance in a safe condition. Assuming that is the case, if you start messing about with it, that's on you.

    • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 21:25
      +1

      "Regarding the ceiling asbestos/vermiculite etc, as noted above IANAL, but having dealt with strata more than I ever wanted to"

      Thats fair enough, as mentioned its our first foray into strata and have found ourselves the need to get educated quickly! We got the ceiling tested and luckily for us it isn't asbestos, I just assumed it would make more sense for BC/strata to have a record of this fact which would have saved us $450 for the lab test which was requested by our contractor.

      • Seraphin7 on 19/11/2020 - 21:34
        +3

        Yeah, strata is a dog's breakfast, frankly.

        The problem that exists, at least in my experience, is that you have two cohorts that in most buildings are constantly fighting …

        1. The group who effectively just wants to be left alone, be allowed to do whatever they want (within reason) inside their own place, and who simply want the rest of the place well maintained, kept tidy, etc.

        2. The group who want to be involved in everyone else's business, want to stop people doing things to improve their own lot, yet who seem to be constantly banging about some obscure problem with the common property that they want fixed and/or with their own property that they want the collective to pay for.

        • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 21:49
          +1

          Well hopefully I can join the committee and help swing the group in favour of group #1.

          Thanks for the advice and an insight into the joys of Strata living.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 21:54

    My question is, is it unreasonable for them to restrict us from making noise for renovations on Saturdays?

    Unless the bylaws were amended after your application…

    Checking the Bi Laws, it states that except as otherwise approved by the owners corporation, be carried out only between the hours of 7:30am and 5:30pm (excluding on any day that is a Saturday, Sunday or public holiday in New South Wales) or between 8:30 am and Midday on a Saturday;

    … it is clearly stated and is enforceable.

    • Longtimescroller on 19/11/2020 - 22:02

      It's stated that we can work between 830 and midday on Saturdays however our renovation approval conditions state that we can't make any renovation related noise on Saturdays…

      • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:12

        Apologies, misread.

        Then work between 0830 to 1200 on Saturday. If they have an issue with it, they will have to prove that you infringed on the bylaws.

        • TheBird on 20/11/2020 - 01:03

          This is incorrect.

          You have approval with conditions. If you don't abide by the conditions, you don't have approval.

          • Longtimescroller on 20/11/2020 - 08:03

            @TheBird: How we are interpreting it is that we are approved for minor renovations under those conditions.

            After those minor renovations have been completed we will simply give a friendly notice to neighbours should we wish to make cosmetic improvements which are likely to cause noise on Saturdays between 830 and midday. But we won't be ruffling feathers for a few weekends while our minor works still need to get completed by tradies.

            • TheBird on 22/11/2020 - 01:07

              @Longtimescroller: I'm suggestng that if you don't need to give notice/ask permission, don't. It sounds like it's going to give you more grief than it's worth.

  • funnysht on 19/11/2020 - 22:14
    +2

    unreasonable for them to restrict us from making noise for renovations on Saturdays?

    I think not…saturday is when people are at home and they want it to relax. How would you feel if i starting making loads of noise every weekend for 1-2months? Why not do it during the week when less people are at home?

    (We work Monday to Friday and can't complete any work during the week.
    unfortunately that's your problem and one with diy stuff. Your neighbours should not pay for it…

  • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:18

    Your neighbours never even had a chance

  • Arthur Dunger on 19/11/2020 - 22:51
    +1

    Living in an apartment sucks.

  • elgrande on 19/11/2020 - 23:37
    +2

    Bickies

  • TheBird on 20/11/2020 - 01:20
    -1

    Was there any reason in the by-laws that required you to get permission from the committee to get these renovations?

    If not, consider withdrawing your request and do it anyway, within the by-laws of Saturday morning. It does depend on what's in your by-laws (which might not be enforcable) and what your (I think it's called) city ordinance is. Which led to another point, but it's not a path that I'd suggest going down, is the by-laws may in themselves contravene an existing law. Take for instance, our committee up here declined an owner from installing solar panels on their townhouse. The problem is, up here, there's some law, don't ask me how its worded, but the law basically states that no body corporate can deny an owner from installing solar panels.

    The committee isn't always legally allowed to make the decision they make. If they do, there's nothing they (legally) can do to deny you.

    • theguru1 on 20/11/2020 - 07:58
      +1

      Depending on the title, often the unit owners do not own the roof space so this can stop solar panels being installed.

      • TheBird on 22/11/2020 - 01:03

        It'd be interesting to see how a body corporate would enforce that, when the owner is legally allowed to do it.

        • Arthur Dunger on 22/11/2020 - 12:25

          As theguru said - if you own an apartment you don't own the roof or roof space. You only own the space within the walls of your apartment, so legally you're not allowed to install solar panels unless you get approval from the body corporate.

  • Meho2026 on 20/11/2020 - 02:31

    Be careful if you plan on mucking around with the vermiculite ceiling.
    Do some research, it’s nearly always asbestos plus it’s actually fire retardant and in the day would have satisfied the building code that would’ve allowed the units to be strata titled.
    Removing it might not be an option.
    Not only is it hideous, if you paint it, it’s so absorbent it soaks up so much paint it can get too heavy and fall off.
    A false ceiling can cover it up but that’s costly plus you lose height.

    • Longtimescroller on 20/11/2020 - 07:49

      Thanks for the heads up, we ended up getting the asbestos testing and it came back negative (thank goodness). We've gone for the drop ceiling and while we may lose some height it will hopefully be worth it.

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