Afternoon OzBargainers
Be gentle, this is my first Forum post and just seeking some thoughts and observations :-)
Just wondered if we are all awash with wine at the moment. I've noticed the decreasing number of 'upvotes' that wine posts seem to be attracting lately. Beer and spirits still buoyant it seems.
Just wondered if anyone may have any observations they might wish to share?
Cheers
Richard :-)
Why don't they just rebrand the price dumped stuff in ugly bottles or casks. I don't even know what price dumping is but it doesn't sound good.
I'll leave aside an explanation as I couldn't do it justice in writing and it has been covered in the reputable media far better than any point of view I can offer. Suffice to say it has more to do with politics than wine. Cheers Richard :-)
Wasn't it just a few years ago Australia was up in arms about China price dumping factory work below the cost it would be to run a factory in Australia? And now we are price dumping fine wine on China, so now they are complaining. Only this time it turns out Australia needs China to buy the wine more than China needs Australia to sell it.
@AustriaBargain: As I said, I think the issues are too complex for a discussion board, so I'll refrain from commenting as others far more learned, informed and knowledgeable than I have far more valuable and relevant opinions on the matter. The purpose of my post was to assess why wine deals on OzB weren't as popular as say six months ago. Cheers! RD :-)
@RD ADL: It looks like price dumping is like if we charged $60 a bottle for the premium wine here, but then we suddenly got too much of it and want to get rich quick so instead of pouring it down the drain we sell it to China for $3 per bottle, which adds up to millions of dollars you otherwise wouldn't have if you dump millions of bottles worth. Millions of dollars for dumping excess wine on the Chinese fine wine market, or earn nothing by pouring it down the drain.
@AustriaBargain: Sorry mate, I won't be drawn. As I said, there are far more people who understand the complex nature of the issues in play on that topic than I. but your perspective is interesting, please feel free to continue to share.
I'm purely here to interpret alcohol buying trends over the last few weeks on OzB.
All the best, Richard :-)
@AustriaBargain: ah I've not looked at Google. But as I say many learned folk have fed some good commentary into the more reputable media. Stay safe RD :-)
@RD ADL: Couldn't the wine growers set their own artificial minimum price on wine exports? Might actually help the more expensive brands in the long run, though lower priced wineries I guess would be priced out of exporting to China. I suppose if China is making these problems up then Australia will be accused of pricing their fine wines too high and in need of a 200% import tariff anyway.
@AustriaBargain: Ah sorry - as I said my first forum post and asking for guidance - you've provided yours, thank you. wasn't aware that a store association was necessary for a broad, non-store specific, topical post and that that was part of the post etiquette. In the interests of transparency here is my post feed -> https://www.ozbargain.com.au/user/212774/nodes
Cheers
RD :-)
@AustriaBargain: Sorry mate. As I said pleas be gentle. Unaware of the etiquette. Happy for you to report my breach to the moderators. I will do so in the morning and re-post appropriately tomorrow. Thanks for the guidance. Richard :-)
@RD ADL: @AustriaBargain: According to this article margins in China are higher than elsewhere so we are actually price gouging in China, not dumping. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/30/china-slaps-preliminary-tari…
@AustriaBargain: Hi @AustriaBargain - I have found that I can update the thread to declare the Store Association and so have amended myself accordingly. Thanks for the guidance on etiquette. It was never an intention to mislead merely a reflection of my OzBargain inexperience. Cheers! RD :-)
@RD ADL: Sweet. It'll probably help you out too. If people knew you were doing market research here as someone in the wine industry, the wine drinkers here will probably offer you even more information about their buying habits for knowing that you actually work in the industry and aren't just a curious person outside the industry.
@AustriaBargain: Are we price dumping? On a $/litre basis China gives the best return of any of our export targets.
For me, a lot of the posts for wine lately were for wines that either:
a. I don't like the style of
b. I have never heard of the label and can't find any reviews or other info
c. Don't seem like bargains to me (particularly if you need to add shipping) - despite what the RRP shows
a. Fair point.
b. If it's any of my posts, always happy to take a call, message or have a chat - direct from the producer - to provide info and assurance.
c. Yes, I've noticed some posts with RRP where even I cynically roll the eyes :-)
Thanks for the considered post. Much appreciated. Cheers! Richard :-)
I don't drink wine during summer time. I personally prefer beer over wine during this time.
Ditto, my beer consumption increases this time of year too :-)
I feel the number of wine posts are about on par, they're just maybe not as good as the covid peak such as the Liquorland clearance of all wines basically for $10 (filled up my 80 bottle cellar with that) Thanks Scomo.
But having said that with China's recent tariff increase it's going to be a no brainer that supply is going to drastically increase and i feel there'll be a fair few stock clearances of decent wine in the coming months. I do know of a couple of wineries who've already lost $100-$200k orders in the past week to China.
A number of sage and interesting points @Drakesy. Cheers! Richard :-)
Probably just deal fatigue and the warming weather
Thanks Jolakot - Good perspective, thank you. Cheers! RD :-)
Just sit back and wait for the deals to come with the China issue, I wouldn't be buying any wine now unless you actually need it over stockpiling it when good deals come along.
Agreed. Ubdoubtedly about to become a buyers market. Cheers! RD :-)
There's actually quite a few people at work that have decided to stop drinking for various reasons or just limit it to particular events or celebrations rather than a common everyday thing. Seems to be a somewhat growing trend.
I'm guessing from your post history that you've seen a sharp decline in interest and purchases recently.
Hi Hybroid. Thanks for taking the time to post. Sure, some of the deals I've put up haven't fired so well, but neither have plenty of others. So just seeking to understand the reasons for that.
Indeed if you look at the 'Top 5 Alcohol Deals' from the last 30 Days - the top rated deals has just 63 UpVotes and the bottom has just 27. That's as low I've seen in the last eight months or so. That said, I'm only a recent user and others have far more experience in interpreting OZB trends than I, hence why I'm seeking the community's view. Cheers! RD :-)
I quit drinking 6 months ago :/
Genuinely hope that is going well for you and I wish you well with it. :-)
Thank you :)
I was going to start a thread about wine, and possibly lobsters given both have been heavily affected by China very recently. This website certainly seems like it can move product so it would be great if some of the producers of both could post some deals here if they are indeed going to be stuck with a huge amount of stock now that China has closed its borders.
Yep. I've stopped ordering as I have no room left in the wine racks. Also drinking less red now it's hotter. I will drink some over Christmas and then reorder Jan. Hopefully you'll have some good me year bundles!
Thanks @gjk - good perspective. Anecdotally, surprised so mnay people turn off wine and reds in summer. Cheers! RD :-)
Yes I feel the market presently is a washed with too much of wines . One can get cheap wines through eBay, Groupon, Catch with free shipping too. I bought them from
Just Wines. Their delivery is free and fast. Thanks Scomo for hitting China . But I am yet to wait for any cheap lobsters? Anyone here has any comment on this as we have been too long not able to taste any lobster in Victoria since their price had been rocketing. With the rejection of China anywhere one senses we can buy cheap lobster? Thanks.
OP: As you are in the wine / alcohol industry, what are your thoughts on the growing trend in low- or zero-alcohol drinks (wines, beers, spirits)?
I know it is a large segment in parts of Europe and seems to be growing here. I am a regular participant in that market, for a variety of reasons, but struggle to accept the product pricing. I would expect the prices to be lower due to no WET tax being applicable, but that doesn't seem to flow through?
@GG57 - its still a niche but slow growing category I think. Interesting also watch the growth of organic - if indeed it does grow. Lots of niche always around wine whether its package or style.
WET only one aspect of consideration - higher production cost, lower volume reinforcing those higher production costs….. perhaps.
Not something I've looked in so not an entirely informed opinion.
Thanks for the question though.
Cheers! RD :-)
Australian wines are domestically overpriced and not of great quality for the buck
Always cheaper abroad than at home much like aussie fruit…
Op, your question/motive doesn't make sense , especially coming from a person with well above average wine knowledge
You keep on saying you refuse to elaborate on wine dumping even though it happens and probably is happening right now
My forum post is for information as it relates to OzBargain sales of booze in recent weeks/months.
Any view I might have on current commentary on the broader industry will remain private as that is the most sensible course of action for my team, my family and our family business.
Cheers!
Richard :-)
My partner & I drink 2-3 bottles a week at home. I've given up on mail order lucky dips.
I buy from Naked Wines because they are small independents and the returns / dissatisfaction policy and customer service are great.
Occasionally I lose my way and go back to Dan Murphy, buy a mixed dozen and realise later that it's all the same wine with different labels or I've bought a shocker.
We aren't premium wine drinkers. My price points are:
Chardonnay $10-16
Dry Riesling $12-18
Pinot Noir $15-22
Sparkling $18-40
PS: Are you sure you aren't doing some casual Insights research? If you want someone with a wealth of insights research ability in FMCG drinks I know a person that will be available from Feb 2021.
Merely casual insights into OZB offers in recent weeks/months.
Cheers!
Richard
This "problem" of seemingly decreased interest in wine is isolated to OzBargain. Other wine forums have seen a strong response to wine deals, especially those that directly support the grower/producer. I would hazard a guess that the recent deals posted here are simply unexceptional and don't warrant an upvote.
My personal collection has swelled during recent months and is running into storage issues during the upcoming summer. This is a similar story with others in my wine group. Black Friday/Cyber Monday was quite eventful, but the best offers are not posted here because wine deals tend to be a zero sum game. The "volume" of users here simply ensures an "out of stock" tag within hours.
Having said that, I just noticed your association to Bec Hardys, did not mean any offense towards your offering. Unfortunately did not find anything of interest in that wine shed sale. My last purchase from the hardy family were the 2010 K1 Tzimmukins which I uniquely remember all had Bec's mobile no. at the back :D
@sleepypolarbear no offence taken at all. All part of asking for open, honest and constructive feedback or considered opinion and I am grateful for you taking the time to post and your candour. It is much appreciated. Cheers! Richard :-)
If I could ask then, why advertise on OzBargain? It's not exactly the target market you'd want, and it kinda cheapens the brand image. The consumers on here generally chase value, and are loyal to the site as opposed your brand. Sure, its decent exposure, and sometimes useful in… lets call it "controling stock levels", but it puts your products next to stuff like Curtis Wines and Heirloom Vineyards, which is disheartening because if I recall the Pertaringa lineup is pretty damn decent.
@SleepyPolarBear: That's a good question.
I'd agree that OzB users chase value - nothing wrong with that.
We use it as a way of extending the reach of our 'outlet store' which we deliberately make wines for.
Sure the Pertaringa range, celebrating it's 40th year in 2020 is our core business and the two pinnacle wines Tipsy Hill and Yeoman brought in 99 and 97 points this year.
Strategically, you can play at both ends of the market - just as Penfolds, Hardys and others do.
More than anything with OzB, I actually enjoy the ineraction, there's a good community feel, they are rightly demanding of good product, good value and good service. Like you, they give open, honest, constructive opinions and views and I value that interaction because it helps us feed that in to building a better business.
Hope that answers the question.
Cheers! Richard :-)
@RD ADL: Had a discussion that came up regarding your Yeoman's.
There are other "outlets" where certain labels can be bought under (not very mysterious) mystery labels, at a fraction of the cost of direct RRP. While there is a general consensus that purchasing direct is preferred, money is still money, and the same product for less generally wins.
So pardon me for asking, but why bloat cellar price? Definitely not singling you guys out, it's something that alot of other wineries do as well. But speaking frankly, you don't have the marketing prowess of say… TWE that validates the ridiculous price tag of the oh so iconic Grange, neither the 'cult' following that ensures over-demand, so just wondering why these huge RRP's seem like common practice (this is coming from peeved consumers who purchase from cellar and find it cheaper online when they get home).
I fear the answer may be that we are all plebs and drink with our $$ eyes.
@SleepyPolarBear: Thanks for the post. My original post was seeking to understand the purchasing habits of OzBargain members as opposed to the broader issues you raise here.
It's all a question of pricing, distribution and brand strategy which is, of course, commercially sensitive and which frankly I could write for days on. In the interests of transparency, I'd be happy to take a phonecall on 0433 166 181.
Cheers
RD
I'm boycotting the stuff due to price dumping. It's bad, apparently.