How to Get a Refund/Replacement Under Australian Consumer Law? Lenovo X1 Carbon Problems.

revacious on 09/12/2020 - 15:27
Last edited 09/12/2020 - 15:29 by 1 other user

I bought a Lenovo X1 Carbon Gen 6 directly from Lenovo Au around 2.5 years ago. However, the laptop now has a malfunctioning thunderbolt 3 controller which is no longer recognised by the device manager. After doing some research, this is a common fault with many Lenovo laptops from this generation and is due to a firmware bug which fries the thunderbolt chip. The laptop is no longer fit for purpose as it cannot be connected to any external displays (essential for my job), and cannot charge properly (only 15W instead of 65W). The laptop was well over 1500$ AUD so under the ACL I would assume it should be free from defects for at least 3 years.

I've tried the online chat and it's just making me want to slam my head into a brick wall.
I don't really have a lot of time or energy to chase these things, and don't have a stable internet connection or fixed address (frequent traveler).
Happy to go to small claims if that's whats the consensus recommendation.

I'm looking for your experiences on getting refunds/repairs/exchanges under Australian Consumer Law so I can get this fixed and move on with my life.

If Lenovo screws me with the X1 carbon, I'm in the market for a new ultraportable 14 inch laptop.
On that note, has anyone had any experience with the ASUS ExpertBook B9450FA?
Before the X1C, I had a vaio Z which was really the best laptop I have ever used. They really don't make em like they used to…

Computing 14inch Computer Laptop Lenovo Ultrabook

Comments

  • tsunamisurfer on 09/12/2020 - 15:43
    +7

    During your discussions with Lenovo did you state your intentions to invoke ACL rights?

    • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 22:06

      Yeah I mentioned it but it didn’t really do anything - still quoted as an out of warranty repair.

  • whooah1979 on 09/12/2020 - 15:44

    How long is the manufacture warranty?

  • spackbace on 09/12/2020 - 15:46
    +6

    2.5yo? Get it repaired… But you need to actually talk to Lenovo for that to happen

    • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 22:07

      I did, they told me it’s out of warranty and it will cost me

      • spackbace on 09/12/2020 - 22:57

        Right, I skim-read your post and thought I read 3yr warranty

        You can still only ask for a repair, don't expect a refund or new replacement.

        • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 23:26

          They said it'll cost me… didn't tell me how much other than north of 500. Mentioning ACL didn't change their outlook.

  • Luo18740 on 09/12/2020 - 15:46
    +8

    Contact Lenovo and let them know the issue. I assume they will need to collect the laptop to diagnose the issue and fix it.

    You will not get a refund or replacement for a 2.5 year old machine no matter how much it cost.

  • plmko on 09/12/2020 - 16:14
    +4

    I had a Vaio S Gun metal carbon edition, Vaio was simply the best.

    • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 23:57
      +1

      Agree! My Vaio Z lasted more than 5 years without missing a beat.
      Since then, nothing but issues with XPS 13 and X1 Carbon… maybe I'm just unlucky.
      Vaio has started making laptops again, if they update their SX14 with a ryzen CPU and improve the battery life, I'll get on a plane to pick one up at launch.

      • blwnhr on 11/12/2020 - 05:44
        +1

        Try the HP Z Book lineup. Buy the 3yr next-business-day warranty so you don't run into this problem again. I used to travel a lot for work, the NBD on-site warranty was a lifesaver a few times. Thousands of kilometres from home, the next day a tech would come to me and fix and problems. If you're using it for work the ~$300 cost for this is well justified.

  • Drakesy on 09/12/2020 - 17:13
    +1

    After 2.5 years i think a replacement/refund for a first time fault is out of the question given depreciation etc.
    Actually get in contact with their repair department and book it in for a motherboard repair.

    You'd only be entitled to a refund if
    a) they've attempted to fix the issue multiple times but to not avail
    b) if its a significant fatal flaw, which as important as a thunderbolt drive is i don't think it's fatal. Let them attempt to fix it before escalating to small claims otherwise it'll all be a waste of time.

    • Trance N Dance on 09/12/2020 - 19:15
      +1

      Failing to charge at a reasonable rate is a fatal flaw.
      If the intention of the purchase was for productivity and that can no longer be done due to the lack of attachment to an external display, that under ACL is a fatal flaw.

      • Drakesy on 09/12/2020 - 19:22
        -2

        OP hasn't quoted any timeframe
        Also, computer still works, display still works, still functions as a computer

        I don't really have a lot of time or energy to chase these things, and don't have a stable internet connection or fixed address (frequent traveler).

        Sounds like the OP is a bit of a Karen imho

        • Trance N Dance on 09/12/2020 - 19:41

          They've stated purchased around 2.5 years ago.
          Whether it still functions as a computer is one thing, but under ACL wording if the product fails to function for its intended purpose it qualifies for warranty under ACL. These laptops are sold with function major functions A-Z, if any of those functions fail and cause the item to no longer operate as intended, it falls under ACL warranty purview. The ambiguous wording of the ACL allows for a wide purview, just because function A fails and it doesn't catastrophically stops the product from working, it still qualifies for ACL warranty if that was a function you purchased the product for.

          • Drakesy on 09/12/2020 - 19:44

            @Trance N Dance: Sorry, was referring to the timeframe the OP has given Lenovo to fix the laptop. Sounds like the OP is making it hard for Lenovo to repair, just drop it into a service store, it's not hard. I've done the same thing and they were more than happy to help. It's not like its a fridge, washing machine etc.

        • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 22:03
          +1

          I’m a doctor and currently am volunteering my time to provide covid assistance to third world countries. Often there is no internet available. Or electricity. And I move around lot. But thanks for the judgement.

          • Drakesy on 09/12/2020 - 23:00

            @revacious: I acknowledge that and thanks for doing this im sure its pretty stressful, but unfortunately lenovo can only help you if you help them by taking it to a service centre.

            Taking civil action will only be more time consuming and a bigger run around than taking it straight to lenovo

            • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 23:19

              @Drakesy: Perhaps I should have made it clear, I've spoken with Lenovo and they refuse to repair without a pretty significant payment. I think the repair should be free and covered under ACL and if they won't repair, then they are obligated to replace or refund. I'm more than happy to drop it off the next time I am back in Australia, but not if it is going to take me 3 hours worth of back and forth.

              • Drakesy on 10/12/2020 - 11:47

                @revacious: Yep, that's kind of a big detail that's not in the original post.

                I believe they can charge for labour in the case of not finding anything wrong to cover their costs, however as you've said there's been a failure then Lenovo will cover all the labour and parts.

      • capslock janitor on 27/01/2021 - 10:41

        Hi, we bought this https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/hyperx-cloud-alpha-gaming…

        There's no sound from left earcup/speaker anymore,
        It's still within the 2 year warranty, are we entitled to refund at all?

        Would love you idea/information. TIA

  • [Deactivated] on 09/12/2020 - 17:26
    +3

    don't have a stable internet connection or fixed address

    Homeless junkie with his stolen laptop

    2.5 years ago

    🤣

  • brendanm on 09/12/2020 - 20:05
    +1

    This may seem insane, but perhaps they might repair it, rather than giving you a new laptop or refund after 2.5 years?

    Edit - the part to repair your laptop is about $2. Take it to a phone or laptop repair place and they will replace it and flash it. All fixed.

    • Trance N Dance on 09/12/2020 - 21:37

      The part might be $2 but the repair bill would be significantly more and wouldn't be fair on the OP to pay.

      • brendanm on 09/12/2020 - 22:26

        But op says he doesn't have the energy to fight with them.

        • Trance N Dance on 10/12/2020 - 05:28

          The cost to repair isn't worth the value of the laptop, if the OP doesn't have the energy to fight then just lodge an ACCC/Fair trading complaint and move on.

    • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 22:16

      Repair is fine, except the board replacement is not 2 dollars it’s more like 500 dollars +

      • brendanm on 09/12/2020 - 22:26

        You don't need to replace the entire board.

        • revacious on 09/12/2020 - 22:33

          Link? And level of microsoldering skills to do it?

          • brendanm on 09/12/2020 - 22:45

            @revacious: Lenovo themselves stated that it was a firmware problem. Caused constant writes to the chip that stores the firmware for the actual thunderbolt processor or some such. It's a surface mount device.

            • Trance N Dance on 10/12/2020 - 05:29

              @brendanm: Do you have anything from Lenovo admitting such directly written down? That would help OP with a fair trading/ACCC complaint tremendously.

              • brendanm on 10/12/2020 - 11:02

                @Trance N Dance: I'm sure op can do the same Google search I did when I was bored last night. It's literally in the changelings for the thunderbolt firmware.

        • reactor-au on 10/12/2020 - 17:05

          Most brands won't just solder a new resistor or anything like that, their repair centre's just say "oh, you need a new motherboard, that will cost you the price of new laptop plus a but extra".

          • brendanm on 10/12/2020 - 17:19

            @reactor-au: I'm aware of that. That would be a repair for op to organise themselves.

    • TilacVIP on 13/12/2020 - 09:16

      You can't get a pack of gum for $2 anymore. People just pulling numbers out of thin air.

  • higherdestiny on 09/12/2020 - 23:44
    +2

    The consumer law covers "fit for purpose" warranty for a "reasonable" period of time based on the type of product and the price paid for the product.

    In this case, remedy under ACL is a little bit unclear. If the product were 2 years or less - I'd say you definitely have a case to push for a remedy under ACL. Likewise if it were 2.5 years old and you spent $3K on the laptop, I would also say you definitely have a case under ACL.

    The challenge is it was a middle-class laptop ($1500 isn't exactly premium, nor is it budget), and we're sitting at 2.5 years of age - which for technology is starting to get up there. Is it reasonable (regardless of cause - being firmware) that something might fail on a $1500 laptop after 2.5 years? I'd say it's probably borderline in terms of one expecting that a minor (in the scheme of things) component failure might occur for a laptop of that price point and after that time duration.

    Honestly - your best bet is to ask for goodwill from Lenovo, and enquire about a remedy under consumer law. If they refuse both - there's probably little point taking it further. You're on the fringe of ACL's coverage at this point and you might as well consider your other options (such as upgrading).

    As for what to replace it with - I'm a HUGE fan of Dell's new XPS range. Grab the new XPS 15 - it will be the same physical size as your 14" Lenovo, but with a gorgeous larger screen.

    • revacious on 10/12/2020 - 00:56
      +1

      Thanks for the insight. The ACL wording is purposefully vague when it comes to this - I think it should fall under the definition of "Major Problem:

      A product or good has a major problem when:

      it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
      it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time

      For a laptop whos sole purpose is preparing and delivering presentations via external monitor/projector, I would not have bought it if I knew the thunderbolt controller would die within 3 years. The long battery life was also a selling point - now it's crippled as a result of the thunderbolt controller death. It discharges battery faster than it charges plugged in. I needed a lightweight, long-life laptop which I could hook up to external displays. I would say it's not fit for purpose, wouldn't you?

      Sadly the XPS doesn't really fit my weight criteria, but it is a nice machine. The Asus Expertbook is probably top of my list currently.

      • Quantumcat on 10/12/2020 - 08:10

        The Dell XPS 13 is only 100 grams heavier than the Lenovo X1 Carbon

        • Gmann on 10/12/2020 - 09:40

          The X1 does have a bigger screen though (14") whilst being lighter

        • Techie4066 on 10/12/2020 - 16:48

          Dell downright sucks. Overpriced, poor customer service, and just reasonable durability. This is from my experience in owning an XPS 13, and seeing the Linus Tech Tips video on their support.

  • Quantumcat on 10/12/2020 - 08:05
    +2

    I don't think a thunderbolt port failing is a major failure - it still works as a laptop and can connect to the net. The common purpose of a laptop is using it as a laptop not giving presentations. If it was a projector that didn't project, sure. But not a laptop that can still be used perfectly fine as a laptop. And 2.5 years is a long time. Many people would have upgraded laptops by now anyway. Get a quote for it to be repaired by a third party and if satisfied, get it fixed, if not, then get a new one. If you are really in a third world country it is surely going to be easier to just get a new one shipped to you than try to send the one you have to lenovo, wait for ages for a repair, and receive it back. If you buy a new one at least you can use your current one while you're waiting.

    • revacious on 10/12/2020 - 21:38

      Lol people here haven’t gotten their packages from last year. Turns out it’s not that easy shipping things to developing countries during a pandemic. We wait months for essential medical supplies to arrive via sea. There is no such thing as buy a “new one”. Lol. Man. I don’t even know where to start with this comment.

      • Quantumcat on 10/12/2020 - 21:46
        -1

        How about you think a little bit more about your comment. Can X be less than 2X + Y if X and Y are positive?

      • brendanm on 10/12/2020 - 22:26

        So how the hell is Lenovo going to be able to help you exactly?

        • revacious on 10/12/2020 - 22:48

          Im not in a rush. I can ship it out, get it fixed, wait 6 months to get it back. If i buy a new one, it will take 6 months to get here anyway. The time taken physically for it to get here is immaterial to me, but the time spent arguing about getting it fixed is because that requires constant input on my part.

  • Meho2026 on 10/12/2020 - 08:35
    +1

    The ATO lets you depreciate a laptop over 2 years. This makes it harder to argue that your laptop is well within its life expectancy under consumer law, especially as its actually still functioning.

    If the laptop was your patient, what would you recommend, surgery or palliative care?

    • revacious on 10/12/2020 - 21:43

      In 2016 depreciation for laptops used to be 3 years. So would you argue that laptops are designed not to last anymore? It’s not an apt comparison comparing patients to laptops, but as with everything in medicine, i make my decisions case by case, not a one size fits all approach.

      • Meho2026 on 11/12/2020 - 16:50

        Look, you bought a laptop that is not top of the range. It was most likely designed for personal use and you've been using it solely for professional use. In all likelihood, in order to use it for that purpose, giving presentations, you've "moved around a lot", I guess taking the laptop travelling by road, rail and air multiple times, that's not normal everyday use.

        When you purchased it, you were probably able to 100% salary package the purpose and even if you couldn't, you will already have depreciated the entire cost through tax, remembering, as you say, its been used solely for professional purposes.
        I think you're being unreasonable. you've had your moneys worth out of it and used it entirely for income producing purposes.

        Good on you for doing the volunteer work but you are in a higher than average paid profession and in a privileged position where you can donate your time.

        Just buy a new laptop.

  • OzHunterNSW on 10/12/2020 - 10:01

    Have you contacted the company?

    • brendanm on 10/12/2020 - 11:03

      Have you read the op?

  • Ramrunner on 10/12/2020 - 12:58
    +2

    Having just gone several repair returns (IN WARRANTY) with an Ideapad and a costly ($635) repair a few months out, where they then left a small metal screw in the chassis that shorted the WiFi chip (that I then fixed myself), all I can say is:

    Lenovo service is quite terrible, and I'd personally never buy one again.

    As for your ASUS suggestion - I'd say go with that. My 2012 Zenbook UX31 is STILL GOING! I did get them to clean the thermals last year at my LOCAL repair centre in Perth and it cost me $88.

    I can't vouch for recent Asus, but you're right - they simply don't build them like they used to.

    All the best mate - yeah, give up on the 2.5 year thing - been down that road I don't think you'll get there but good luck to you.

    All the best.

    • revacious on 10/12/2020 - 21:44

      Cheers, I usually recommend Lenovo’s to people looking for workhorse laptops but agree, probably have lost my business.

  • Techie4066 on 10/12/2020 - 16:45
    +1

    Asus laptops are top notch, been using mine every day for school for 3 years. There are 3 other ZenBooks in my family, 2 are the recent design with the raised keyboard hinge. They're all great and the ExpertBook is a step up from what I have.

  • ln28909 on 13/12/2020 - 10:16

    If you are a doctor volunteering your time to help others, then it's fair to assume that money is not an issue, and if buying a new laptop and getting lenovo to repair it for you free of charge requires the same amount of timeframe. Then from the information provided, it's pretty clear that you should just buy a new laptop.

    • revacious on 13/12/2020 - 13:19

      Not fair to assume, but for me personally It’s not an issue. It’s the principle. If it hypothetically costs me 1k to repair it, and it costs me 1k to go to court (again numbers completely made up), I’d pick the court option every time. I bought a new laptop already, but will still fight this on principle.

      • ln28909 on 13/12/2020 - 13:26
        +1

        well if you're willing to fight on principle, the cost of going to court would be multiple times the cost of spending money to repair since there is opportunity cost involved.

        I personally don't think Lenovo owes you anything, but there is also nothing wrong with your decision to go to court no matter how absurd it sounds to me

  • Kelvin on 14/12/2020 - 23:59

    Lenovo = Crap service

    Had a Dell 9300 with the Nvidia 6800a few years back, when it was 3 year old (and I upgraded), took it over to the US to give to my sister in law.. .
    It promptly failed with the Nvidia video issue.. in the first 3 months.

    When she returned to Australia for a holiday, I asked her to bring the laptop back… it was now just under 5 years old..

    I contacted Dell and asked them to fix it… under the ACL given the Nvidia issue is a known manufacturing fault.. they laughed.. and claim they didn't have any parts for it.. given it was so old..
    Thats fine, I told them… I was happy will a full refund instead of a repair… under ACL , long story short… in under a week, I had a fully working Dell 9300 fixed free of charge and it went back to the US with my sister in law..

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join