Watches - DIY Toolkits - Advice Needed

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  jackinyourbox on 04/01/2021 - 21:39

  I changed the battery on my dads quartz Seiko using a toothpick to push the band pin out and a knife blade to pop off the back cover. You don’t necessarily need all those tools. For the twist backs you could use a rubber ball

  • 

    tebbybabes on 04/01/2021 - 21:57

    +2

    You're absolutely right that you can manage. However, having the right tools makes it less likely to scratch the caseback or stuff something else up. I've also used the rubber ball trick before, and it does work, one issue though, with that is, sometimes, you won't be able to generate enough torque to actually seal the caseback back on nice and tight.

  • 

    SaberX on 05/01/2021 - 20:47

    do you need to always take off the band though to take off the case and change the battery?

    • 

      jackinyourbox on 07/01/2021 - 08:57

      No, depends on your skill. On steel bracelets maybe

      • 

        SaberX on 04/02/2021 - 13:18

        copy that.

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  tebbybabes on 04/01/2021 - 21:55

  +3

  I have a kit practically identical to the one in the amazon link. I think I bought mine off ebay a few years ago for 24. Anyway, they'll certainly do the job that you had in mind like adjusting links and changing batteries.

  IMHO however, they are pretty crap quality tools. That being said, I already knew they were very mediocre before I bought them, but knew they would be suffice for my purposes. It's not like I was buying the tools so I could get into the trade.

  Operations you are talking about ARE quite simple, but different watches have different mechanisms with their links and their casebacks, etc. Thankfully there are so many youtube videos.

  About water resistance, done carefully, it shouldn't break water resistance, but many watchmakers will change and relube the gaskets to add another line item to your battery replacement and then finally top it off with a pressure test. Otherwise, they won't guarantee it's water resistance post battery change. I've personally haven't changed any gaskets from any of my battery changes and just relubed them and they are fine. However I don't also swim with them so I can't say for certain just how water resistant they are.

  The prevailing wisdom with automatics is that they do require regular servicing… The issue is the definition of "regular." Some people will say every 5 years, some people will say more. There are some folks, myself included, that think, if it ain't broke, then don't fix it.

  That being said, I do have a watchmaker that I trust for pieces that require servicing. But it's very similar with a mechanic. If you find someone you can trust, then that person will be worth their weight in gold. Pricing for service varies considerably. And I've been through a couple of local watchmakers that didn't really fill me with confidence. Believe it or not, my current go to fellow is a actually a young bloke in Adelaide and I'm in NSW! It was truly a surprise because master watchmakers are few and far in between and generally quite on in years or is part of a long line of watchmakers. This fellow really impressed me with his passion and attention to detail. So I took a punt and sent him one of my problematic pieces, and he did a terrific job and communicated quite well. That's why he's my go-to guy now, even if he's out of state.

  Apologies if this reply has gone off tangent and is so long winded.

  • 

    saltypete on 05/01/2021 - 09:33

    Agree. I swap bands and have the simple tool for that. I have a few watches and dive. I have a trusted watch maker who I trust to do anything that opens the back. He then pressure tests.

    I do change the batteries on my dive computer myself though…….

    • 

      SaberX on 05/01/2021 - 21:02

      No diving or recreational water usage either tbh. If anything the water resistance was for 'incase' i jumped or fell into water etc. But i'd never swim or use it in water… and any swimming or beach work would be taking the G shock casio watches with their relevant band rather than my stainless steel.

      Made sense to then just change my own batteries. Not sure if pressure also helps keep out moisture or other day to day wear, but if not then i suppose it shouldn't be an issue DIY'ing with no pressure tester?

  • 

    SaberX on 05/01/2021 - 21:09

    Yeah, I figured the quality would be average. THe reviews seem to be surprised at the quality though?

    The caseback i seem to have is described as a screw on back , there's a few lips around the back case , and it seems the little wrench looking thing with 3 adjustable heads (triangle style position) I presume is used to open these kits?

    To be honest I haven't got a clue about watchmaking and water resistance. Once a watch is opened is there generally the battery on the top level and a layer underneath where water resistance is maintained? I haven't seen a gasket or have any idea about maintenance, however is this an easy to do, or something one even needs to do in an automatic or quartz watch?

    I do note I got my Automatic Maurice in 2011 and the advice from the service shop given how hard it is to service (got to send it from west over east) and expensive is to not do anything if no noticeable issues for now. I did think automatics needed regularly maintenance every few years, but to be honest haven't got a clue what the 'regular' maintenance schedule of an automatic vs quartz watch is? Would appreciate if there's any websites or youtube videos you'd have that would explain the bare bones basics?

    But yes, as you said if it aint broke, don't fix it? That said I noticed a weird blemish on my seconds hand in my automatic. it's almost like a dust or spec of something appeared suddenly on it, I have no idea how, given it's in a sealed case? other than that i haven't noticed any issues.

    No worries with your tangent. I'm clueless about watches apart from wearing and enjoying them so have definitely not done any maintenance. Wondering if prevention is better than fixing once broken however.

    With your Adelaide watchmaker, how did you come across an interestate watch maker? Do you just try sending stuff through interestate and found he was decent? I've never serviced locally (Perth) but the service centres for my watch are over east (melbourne) for the Maurice. Is this similar to sending to your car's dealer - overpriced, and is it better to goto a general 'watchmaker' for a 3rd party service than the official service centres generally? And are the goto technicians usually 'watchmakers' as in actually work/construct on them (hence the knowledge) and dont' have had to have manufacturing experience per se?

    • 

      tebbybabes on 07/01/2021 - 03:06

      In the quartz pieces that I've changed batteries for, the battery is within the case, assembled onto the movement itself. There weren't any separating layers for water resistance. In my limited experience, I know of none.

      AFAIK, water can only ingress from the crown, the caseback, and the crystal. So any time these parts aren't sealed correctly, is when water has a chance to get in.

      Re: automatics and servicing: I have a 20 year old one, that has had heaps of servicing and parts replacement(it's the problem piece in my collection). We also have multiple 40 year old ones that run perfectly and never been touched. There's also a 15 year old one that already had 2 episodes of servicing with parts replacement. I guess what I'm saying is, based on my admittedly small sample size, YMMV.

      If that automatic you mention has never been left open and you've never noticed that blemish before, it could possibly be developing a patina.

      IMHO, an overhaul by a legit watchmaker means that watch will be taken apart to it's smallest components checked, cleaned, polished, lubed and then reassembled. I think this is the only sort of prevention that counts as prevention. But that comes back to down to the argument, that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In watches, it's pretty easy to tell if something is wrong. It either doesn't keep time correctly, adjustment is difficult or not otherwise smooth, or it's power reserve is reduced from it's norm. All of these are signs that it needs a service because something is off.

      With the young fella in Adelaide, I was scouring the internet for advice on a vintage Tag. My usual watchmaker in Sydney doesn't do that make and frankly even if he did, I was incredibly hesitant because his usual charge is quite pricey. In this case, the value of the watch would be less than the usual rates he charges me, so I guess that worked out. I tried a local watchmaker in my area but like I said he didn't fill me with confidence and was hemming and hawing about how difficult it would be to fix and how pricey it would end up being. So back to my search, I saw a few blogs about watch restoration and one of them was a Tag Monaco and the work was beautiful. It turns out the blog was run by the young watch maker. So I contacted him and it was a very happy conclusion to my hunt. As an aside, later on, completely independently to our interaction, I even discover that this young fellow had travelled to europe and did several apprenticeships with several notable micro brand watch houses. Needless to say, I was impressed even more.

      I can't speak for all, but with some makes, it's almost required that you visit their authorised dealer. Only because similar to a car dealer, they're the only ones that can get the proper parts. That's generally the only reason I would ever get it sent to an authorised dealer. Regarding pricing, there's a huge spread amongst independents that is NOT reflective of their skill or abilities. My Sydney guy is cheaper than an authorised service centre for high end brands but not by huge margin. The local guy I mentioned wanted to charge as much as my high end Sydney guy and still didn't inspire confidence and it was for a relatively low value watch. The Adelaide bloke invoiced me a very reasonable price for a full overhaul with multiple parts replacement.

      • 

        SaberX on 04/02/2021 - 13:46

        With those quartz you refer to that are assembled onto the movement - will this be easy to remove the battery from for a first timer? Or risky?

        With water though i presume there isn't a risk of condensation so the only time you have to worry about pressure testing is with any intention to go under wateR? Am i missing anything? I would never think of taking a stainless steel (or leather) automatic near water anyhow, perhaps a group of people do ?

        With your automatics/servicing what prompted you to fix the 20 year old one? Noticeable breakdowns? My issue is i have no idea if the movement is slowing, is there an app or proper method to track if it is starting to need servicing e.g. by examining how accurate its time telling is? I do wonder though with the need to send over interestate how one can easily send their watch (without concern). Flying over and manually doing it is also abit OTT currently, particularly hard with covid.

        The automatic i have has never been opened since purchase around 2011. I only noticed the blemish on the seconds hand in recent months. I do notivce looking down at the hour/minutre hands what looks like a spec of dust on them too. I'll try and link a photo i took (hard with an up close macro photo) in a seperate response, if you could please have a look. Is a patina natural? or cause for concern? Does it need to be remediated before spreading or causing further issueS (not like rust?)

        With your complete overhaul by a legit watchmaker - sounds good, but presuming it is a costly undertaking? My current automatic was a self gift post finishing university back in those days, so it wasn't an overly expensive purchase - probably just under $3k for an entry level Maurice Lacroix. So i'd imagine a servicing that's say $400,500 may be overkill relative to its residual value. That said with your Adelaide/Sydney watch maker what is a typical price they would charge you for the work and servicing you have done in the past (as i have no idea what's a good market rate currently).

        Wouldn't mind getting the detials of your Adelaide fellow anyhow. I'm Perth based so unfortunatley i doubt i'll find any watchmaker who has done the apprenticeships and work required to be skilled and reasonably priced… I agree though with your last comment on pricing not reflective of skill or abilities - and that's one area where if i could easily distinguish the skill/ability part would be happy to part with the money. It's not knowing (and me myself being inadequately skilled or knowledgeable) that is my concern.

        • 

          tebbybabes on 04/02/2021 - 22:04

          @SaberX: Mate, as long as you're careful, I don't foresee it to be risky, even for a first timer. The multitude of youtube vids would be pretty darn helpful too.

          Yep, pressure testing is to ensure that the watch can be reasonably safely immersed under water. Even diving watches which have pretty impressive ratings, will risk water ingress under pressure if any of their seals are out of order. And just to address your thinking, 90% of my automatics are tool watches and divers. So yes, they are in and around water all the time. :)

          Definitely noticeable breakdowns. Mine was constantly losing minutes waay in excess of acceptable variations for it's movement. I'm talking losing 3 or 4 minutes every week or so. I don't use any of the apps that try to measure beat frequencies, because I haven't really learned how they work. I just compare to a known clock. My usual go-to is the clock on my pc which is automatically synced to an atomic clock time server somewhere.

          My latest overhaul was with the Adelaide fellow. I suppose it could be called somewhat costly. It came out to $360 - especially considering the vintage watch wasn't really worth much more than that. But in my limited experience with a few watchmakers, I'm calling it very very very affordable. It was a complete breakdown and overhaul and he had to order parts in and didn't even charge me for the parts. Just to give you an idea, the well regarded Sydney high street folks working on prestige and highend marques charged 1200-1300 three years ago.

          Anyway, I'll just leave the details of the Adelaide fellow here. Might be helpful for anyone reading the thread.

          OBR Horology
          38 Gawler pl room 407 4th floor
          ADELAIDE SA 5000

      • 

        SaberX on 04/02/2021 - 13:52

        This is from the 4 jan, you can start to see abit of the hours:mins hands blemishes starting, however hopefully you can clearly see the 'dust' like particles near the rotational area on the seconds hand:

        https://imgur.com/a/9ZnTfK4

        Thoughts if this is the patina you mentioned?

        • 

          tebbybabes on 04/02/2021 - 21:35

          @SaberX: Looks like it to me. Patina is just some folks fancy way of saying it's got some oxidation and stuff.

          From your photo, it fits the bill. TBH, I don't know enough to tell you if it's something that can be prevented from happening. I think all of my vintage pieces have some sort of degradation somewhere on it's face, be it oxidation, or yellowing, or lume changing color, etc. It could conceivably possibly be minimised by watchmaker by polishing or cleaning, but that's just a guess of mine.

          Nice piece, by the way.

• 

  WizMuncher on 05/01/2021 - 07:14

  I was looking into this a little while ago. That kit should get you changing batteries and watch links. I figured I'd use something like that for cheaper watches and practice on those first.

  I concluded that without a pressure tester it would be too risky to DIY on the more expensive ones. You can buy what look like good pressure testers for about $200 that test up to 6atm, or about 60m depth. That means you'll know the watch is sealed, and if it isn't you'll know without destroying the watch as water can't get in - i.e. it fails if the watch starts bubbling air when you release the pressure. But yeah if you've got a lot of watches it might be worth it - you'd only need to replace 4 batteries to breakeven.

  Also I discovered that if you take it to a jeweler, it's a good idea to check what brand of battery they're planning to put in it. Most of what you're paying for is labour. May as well go with the best brand battery. I'm not saying they're doing it - but it must be tempting to put cheap & nasty batteries in there in the hope you'll come back sooner. But anyway those cheap and nasty batteries can leak and corrode and destroy the watch.

  • 

    SaberX on 05/01/2021 - 21:01

    Yeap I was thinking of using these on cheaper watches like my quartz tissot, dress watches like the giorgio armani. The more expensive ones like the raymond weil and maurice lacroix need to goto specialists unfortunately, the crappy thing is these are all over East (for us WA'ers) which is a real inconvenience….

    I do note the tissot and armani all have some water resistance or low level immersion depth, but I figure that 1) i'll never swim or take it in water, and they aren't that expensive if i 'fell' into water andthe risk of damaging them. So therefore it made sense to just DIY change the batteries as I wear them rarely due to the more expensive Maurice and now that I have the Raymond Weil…. so to change abattery and wear it once or twice here and there in the year and come back to it flat has been a real pain (and why they're gathering dust).

    Although I did note with the Raymond Weil they recommended leaving the crown open to stop the quartz movement/battery drain - something I never honestly thought about with my other dress watches. Perhaps i've been doing it all wrong - leaving the battery change to run out while not in use. Not sure if this is good/bad for the watch (apart form the inconvenience of setting the time everytime you push the crown back in for battery to re-engage).

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  Speckled Jim on 05/01/2021 - 08:40

  I just use a similar wrench to the one in the kit, was cheap from ebay years ago. That, a $2 mini screwdriver set and "bad" tweezers do it for me.
  Wrench is 2mm short for one particular watch, which also has shallow case back notches. For this I need to find my squash ball.
  Figure if a gasket perishes, I'll carefully apply a Permatex (tube) sealant with a pin or needle.

  • 

    SaberX on 05/01/2021 - 20:58

    is the adjustable 3 way wrench the one you're referring to? I looked online and it looks like the indents around the case is a 'screw on' back, so looks like you need something to rotate the lips around to unscrew. I'm not sure how hard it is after that, but presumably the battery pops in/out like other electronics so I just need to peek inside, find out what battery, and ebay/online order it and then change it out.

    Not sure about my watch links though on what type - seems there are a few pin types - cotter, spring pin, from what i can see on amzon reviews?

    • 

      tebbybabes on 07/01/2021 - 03:11

      Yep that's the one. Half of the quartz watches I've worked on have a little plastic plate that keeps the movement in place, especially if the movement is tiny compared to the case. The battery should be under that.

• 

  Speckled Jim on 05/01/2021 - 22:43

  Yes, the triangular pin arrangement. The kit will have interchangeable bits of varying diameter that plug into the three holders.

  I've just double-checked; two of my screw-backs can't be securely unscrewed with my wrench. Only two of the three pins can engage the notches (a top leg of "T", the other at bottom). Those are 46mm diameter cases.

  If you have larger watches, it pays to check if there's a tool included that can unscrew them without slipping. Both those watches were acquired years after the wrench!

  Most of my quartz watches use SR626SW (or 377) batteries. Occasionally the battery used will be embossed or printed on the case back. Manual is guaranteed to tell you. Failing that, an online search will tell.

  As for links, I've only shortened a few bracelets using my smallest jewellers screwdriver to push out the pins. Many better quality brands will have a mark embossed, often an arrow, to indicate the recommended pin(s) to push out.
  You may need magnification to clearly see them.

  Edit: the ladies watch bracelet I shortened used very short spring pins. That was a Citizen, I was able to use a thick-ish sewing needle to push the pin from the outer access hole.

  • 

    tebbybabes on 07/01/2021 - 03:16

    A watchmaker I knew decades ago who has long since passed used needle nose pliers that he ground down himself to use on the casebacks of problematic pieces where his normal tools wouldn't fit. I'm sure he wouldn't advise anyone to the same, but he knew what he was doing.