Red Light Offence Due to Failing to Enter Intersection Fully on Left Turn While Giving Jaywalking Pedestrians Right to Cross

Octogenarian on 13/01/2021 - 14:04
Last edited 13/01/2021 - 14:39 by 1 other user

Hi OzBargainers

Red light camera pics : https://imgur.com/a/0v2BqsK

The gist of the offence is that the car has triggered the red camera sensors due to having its rear wheels on the stopping line when the traffic light changed to red. This happened mainly due to 2 factors:

  1. The driver was not well experienced at understanding intersection rules. I.E that the car has to be fully in the intersection area prior to the change to red.
  2. Completing the turn was stymied by jaywalking pedestrians who crossed on red and as the law requires let them finish the crossing.

There are two traffic camera pictures (https://imgur.com/a/0v2BqsK) attached to the fine, showing:

  1. The car at a full stop with car's braking lights ON exactly at the moment when the traffic light changes to red (the rear wheels are on the stopping line)
  2. A few milliseconds after the car is in the junction, also with brake lights ON as the driver realised she has to finalise the turn as the light has turned red. However, at this point there were still jaywalkers in finalising their crossing and by law the driver had to wait till they have finished.

By saying jaywalker I mean those people who start their crossing at either flashing red or fully red pedestrian traffic light.

This happened in a junction just a few meters from our home and at a non-rush hour.

This was a bone fide rookie mistake with no intention to break law or anything in that spirit.

Can anyone please advice on whether it makes sense to write a leniency request or to dispute the fine? Any other relevant advice would be highly appreciated.

Cheers

Kind regards.

Automotive

Comments

          • deme on 15/01/2021 - 00:08

            @ialam99: You realise this will go to a magistrate and not a judge?

          • whooah1979 on 15/01/2021 - 08:21

            @ialam99: Can they also cancel the demerit points?
            https://www.criminaldefencelawyers.com.au/blog/fine-nsw-what…

            The fine for running or going through a red light varies from $191 to $457 in addition to 3 demerit points under rules 56, 57, 59 and 60 of the Road Rules 2014 (NSW).

            • ialam99 on 15/01/2021 - 09:04

              @whooah1979: The three times i've gone, they have cancelled the fine but not the demerit points.

              This approach makes sense in my mind. $300 fine means nothing for some people while its a lot for others. So waving the fine seems reasonable for those that cant afford it. But waving demierit points means rewarding those that keep breaking the rules so i cant see why they should do that.

              • whooah1979 on 15/01/2021 - 09:31

                @ialam99: It sounds like they (the Court) has been rewarding your bad driving three times.

                Some magistrates are so soft.

                • ialam99 on 15/01/2021 - 10:22

                  @whooah1979: Just so you know, two of those times was for going ~6km/h over the speed limit and both times i came in with full demerit points so i could prove i was an otherwise safe driver and it was an honest mistake.

                  I am however impressed with your skills around judging people without knowing the facts and i hope that skill works out for you in the future.

                  • whooah1979 on 15/01/2021 - 10:25

                    @ialam99: Speeding is never safe under any circumstances. The Court should not be rewarding repeat offenders with reduced penalties.

  • kaz8743 on 15/01/2021 - 01:00
    -2

    just say that there was a fire engine behind you with flashing sirens and u had to do a turn reluctantly to give him way to pass thru safely.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/01/2021 - 10:21
      +1

      Great idea! Change a traffic offence into a criminal offence.

  • newjerseydamo on 15/01/2021 - 07:57
    +1

    Rookie mistake means learn from it and move on. Pay the fine.

    Nothing in your post or the photos shows any reason for leniency.

  • payless69 on 15/01/2021 - 10:06
    +1

    Tough case. I had a similar experience, going straight but drunkyards blocking intersection. Eventually I made it across but according to the cops I should have not entered the intersection at all as in QLD drunkyards have the absolute right of way!

    • Hangryuman on 15/01/2021 - 10:11
      +1

      'according to the cops I should have not entered the intersection at all as in QLD drunkyards have the absolute right of way!'

      after my motorbike crash in QLD - into a car doing a totally illegal u-turn over the blind crest of a hill in an 80kph zone - the insurance company apparently accorded my responsibility at something like 10% 'because I was on the road at the time' …

      • payless69 on 15/01/2021 - 15:51

        I know what you talk about! Having driven around a million km's accident free I had seen it all. QLD drivers are a bit bogan, hence the cops being more than a bit frustrated.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/01/2021 - 10:14

    Your wife needs some more fines to get her off the road for public safety.

  • abk on 15/01/2021 - 10:49
    +2

    Hi @Octogenarian,

    I had almost similar case in QLD at one of the intersection, in my case there was no dedicated Left Trun arrow and traffic light on left was sort of hidden behind the electric pole.

    I have raised a dispute with traffic and answer was that Council has to look at installing proper light and they cannot do much. so i went to court. Court hearing came when i was overseas and i missed it.

    Finally i end up paying $750 instead of original $350 with all court fees etc.

    So my suggest would be take it as :

    -Take it as lesson learnt.
    - Pay you fine in instalments i.e $25 fortnight.
    - Its really hard to challenge fixed cameras, because they are programmed with seconds calculations etc.

    **BTW Council end up having left Arrow signal on that intersection ** and which make me feel bad whenever i passed it.

    Hope this helps.

  • bobz79 on 15/01/2021 - 10:56
    +2

    Had a similar fine, waiting for pedestrians unlawfully crossing! Can't do much. Wrote to them and was told should have either stayed there or reversed. You move, you get a fine!

    • Wheatgrass on 15/01/2021 - 12:27
      +1

      They told you reversing would have been better?? Geez.

  • kiitos on 15/01/2021 - 12:43

    This has been useful. I can see now that it's important to either hold back or fully enter the intersection when waiting for traffic to ease before turning right. Sometimes when the intersection is short or the lanes a bit out of alignment I tend to partially move forward and straddle the stop line.

  • GrueHunter on 15/01/2021 - 13:07
    +5

    What a lot of words to say "My wife tried to beat a yellow light and got busted"

    • drfuzzy on 15/01/2021 - 17:55

      And Every Word In The Heading Is Capitalised To Make It Harder To Read.

      • GG57 on 18/01/2021 - 09:54

        When you get around to posting something, you will understand that OzB suggests reformatting the title as per this one, as an example.

  • harthagan on 15/01/2021 - 16:18
    +1

    Your version is not supported by anything in the photos. If there were jaywalkers or pedestrians at least anywhere visible in the photo, it would add credence to your story.

  • drfuzzy on 15/01/2021 - 17:52
    -1

    That heading.

    I read it as "Red Light Offence Due to Failing to Enter Intercourse Fully on Left Turn While Giving Jaywalking Pedestrians Right to Cross"

    Shorter and fewer capitals, please.
    Headache.

  • Kranbone on 15/01/2021 - 18:25

    Amber means stop if safe to do so. From my understanding cameras only trigger when you cross the line at a red light. If you are already past when amber it shouldn't trigger.

    The correct thing to do would've been to wait (and give a soft beep to the person crossing incorrectly).

  • dufflover on 15/01/2021 - 22:15

    The car looks like it has barely even turned when the photo was taken. Most times I see this people just hold over the pedestrian crossing.
    It's a bit hard to argue a case if you're waiting that far behind the other pedestrian crossing that you can't even see the people in the image. You basically need to hope if you pleas leniency that they aren't someone who hates those annoying drivers that leave an entire car's length at red lights and stuff.

  • Poor Ass on 15/01/2021 - 23:17

    You could try plead a lessor offence and say you cross the stop line on amber rather than red

    I mean who hasn't gunned it on amber

    • harthagan on 16/01/2021 - 00:55

      You can be fined for accelerating through an amber light. Not via a red light camera, but the cops can fine you for it if you do it blatantly in front of them.

      • Poor Ass on 16/01/2021 - 02:06

        Yes of course that's why I said plead running amber as the infringement is cheaper

        The excuse is always that you were unable to prepare to stop safely

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