What's Your Preference: Salary or Wages?

spychiatrist on 15/01/2021 - 23:40
Last edited 17/01/2021 - 07:55 by 1 other user

Given the choice, would you rather be paid annualised salary or hourly wages?

Salary Pros: Annual leave, sick leave, paid public holiday
Salary Cons: If you work long hours you're still paid the same. If you work on a weekend or public holiday, you don't get paid extra

Wages Pros: Work long hours, get paid more. Get paid working weekends
Wages Cons: No leave. No work, no pay

If you want to be paid hourly (but flat rate), how do you ensure the $ is close to an annualised salary?

EDIT:
At this workplace, there are 3 options:

  1. Annualised salary, but no overtime paid if you work longer as it is built in the rate as allowance for reasonable overtime. Is this ok?

  2. Wages (blue collar), get paid overtime, double bubble. Public holidays paid

  3. Flat rate, everything built in you hourly wage but you get paid more the longer you work (I believe this is what head hunters, recruitment agencies offer)

From the comments, looks like one can be flat rate and permanent employee, which means leave entitlement. This is the best case scenario and preferred.

Poll Options

  • 206
    Salary
  • 88
    Wages
Financial

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 15/01/2021 - 23:45
    +13

    Salary Cons: If you work long hours you're still paid the same. If you work on a weekend or public holiday, you don't get paid extra

    Really. I'm on an annual salary but get paid overtime and paid extra for public holidays. I don't get extra for weekends or night shift hours though.

    If ypu want to be paid hourly (but flat rate), how do you ensure the $ is close to an annualised salary?

    Annual salary / 52 / agreed # of hours per week

    • spychiatrist on 16/01/2021 - 00:02
      -3

      How do you still get paid overtime when it should have been built in your salary?

      • Muzeeb on 16/01/2021 - 00:12
        +5

        I have no idea. My workplace agreement lists my annual salary and anything worked above nominal hours per fortnight is paid as overtime.

        • Quantumcat on 16/01/2021 - 07:58
          +2

          Same here. But overtime for me is the same hourly rate as my salary divided by number of working hours in a year, and don't get super paid on it, so it isn't really worth it. Unless I really have nothing better to do on a weekend.

        • BensonP on 16/01/2021 - 08:47
          +1

          Same here.

          Logging into my payroll account shows yearly figure and hourly rate.
          Anything over 8 hours in a day is double time.

          I definitely get sick leave, annual leave, LSL and public holidays paid.

      • morse on 16/01/2021 - 10:32
        +1

        Sometimes they’ll need you to work more hours than what is included in your salary. Not all employers/industries pay overtime, some do. Mostly they have to ask you to do those extra hours before they will pay you to do them.

        • spychiatrist on 16/01/2021 - 11:17
          +4

          Hence the term, reasonable overtime included

          • khelddar on 17/01/2021 - 23:02

            @spychiatrist: Unpaid "reasonable overtime" - the worst 2 words in a contract, could mean 20 hours a week, could mean 2 hours a week. As long as it is "reasonable".

            • modiika on 18/01/2021 - 10:13

              @khelddar: ultimately it does depend. 20 hours once, over a whole year maybe reasonable.

              2 hours a week, every week may be unreasonable.

              Although, I'd say 2 hours a week would always be reasonable. And 20 hours extra a week is probably unreasonable, but not worth complaining about if it literally happens only once a year or so.

              Generally, my experience has been on salary, that its more relaxed. Its less clock watching. Yeah sometimes I work 30 mins longer. But if I take a slightly longer lunch break or hop out for a doctors appointment its no big deal. And in my job, even if it wasnt in my contract, the nature of my role means, i feel personally responsible for some work getting done, even if it means 10 hours overtime in a week.

              Ultimately, i think alot of work places that are salary, the nature of the work is such that it just makes more sense than hourly.

              The public service typically has flexi time, which is pretty generous, which basically lets you bank time and take it off at other time.

      • mrvaluepack on 16/01/2021 - 16:14
        +1

        A lot of trade eba's have this built in. Best of both worlds.

        • eek on 18/01/2021 - 10:47

          Such a rip-off though. Trades in Australia are probably one of the highest paid in the world it's crazy.

          • Penguin30 on 18/01/2021 - 19:38

            @eek: Every Job in Australia is super high pay, with basically no exceptions. Pretty Lucky if you ask me.

      • siresteelhell on 16/01/2021 - 16:41

        I am working annualised with overtime as well… It pays extra because there is a fixed amount of OT already paid to cover shifts that are on weekend/ or holidays.. It is worked out on an agreed yearly rate evenly divided over the 52 weeks…where you get OT is when you work extra days you aren't rostered

      • DonWilson on 16/01/2021 - 16:49

        Are you American?

        In my experience this is the norm for salaried work. A lot of people don't bother with claiming small overruns but salary contracts usually include overtime clauses and it's illegal to expect more than the contracted hours and take any retaliatory action for not working unpaid overtime.

        -edit- oh, I've seen the edit now. Yeah I'd take the salaried option any day.

      • gromit on 16/01/2021 - 21:42
        +1

        Overtime is not built in to most salary jobs. At least not excessive overtime. I get utilisation based bonuses and pay for the overtime.

      • stewy on 16/01/2021 - 22:16

        My previous job for an engineering contracting company we got paid overtime.

        All overtime was at least at time time and a half or could be banked as TOIL. If it was an hourly hire job and the client specifically requested the overtime to occur outside our normal 7am-5pm permitted work hours, it would then be double time.

        Overtime is not built in to most salary jobs. At least not excessive overtime. I get utilisation based bonuses and pay for the overtime.

        In the engineering game, overtime is built into most salaries. it's not at all common to get paid overtime.

      • This Guy on 17/01/2021 - 10:31

        Many employers pay award or close to award and don't properly budget for salary.

        Depending on award, to work 50 hour weeks you could need to be 25% to 50% above base salary.

        There are dodgy awards and dodgy employers, but basically you shouldn't be worse off by taking a salary.

      • nicend on 17/01/2021 - 16:06

        A lot of salary jobs, particularly office ones, have a set number of hours you work and then if you exceed that amount some will then offer OT rates.
        This depends heavily on their bargaining agreement of course.

        So places will monitor you down to the minute and then pay you, others ask you to self report and expect you to monitor your own hours and only pay OT if you go over it by some margin. IIRC my current EBA has 1 hour a fortnight as reasonable OT.

        Personally I prefer the latter as it means that I can leave early or late depending on what I'm doing and not need to really care exactly how many hours I specifically work, but if I need to actually work a few hours OT then I get compensated.

        However some people prefer the more exact measure as they can add a few extra minutes every day and get extra days off.

    • jimbobaus on 16/01/2021 - 09:56

      Same
      Salary does not mean you give up your entitlements
      and in some states putting that in your contract is illegal.

    • kensaiD on 18/01/2021 - 06:55
      +1

      Same here. On fixed salary, but if I work over my hours I just submit a timesheet and get either paid OT or accrue TIL.

  • SF3 on 15/01/2021 - 23:49
    +46

    Wages Cons: No leave. No work, no pay

    I think you mean casuals, not permanent on wages.

      • hasher22 on 16/01/2021 - 00:05
        +23

        Casuals don't get leave, no work, no pay, no sick leave.

        You can still be on an hourly rate and still get sick leave and annual leave.

      • Hardlyworkin on 16/01/2021 - 08:24
        +4

        Downero: what? Can you rewrite your post and take out leave as a con for wages? Or clarify it as it doesn't make sense.

        Whether you are on wages or salary you still get what is in the NES, including paid leave. This can't be changed.

        Just divide tour actual hours worked by your weekly pay to see if it's ok or not.

          • Grande Kintama on 16/01/2021 - 12:07
            +5

            @spychiatrist: Casual employees don't get leave entitlement.

          • zonra on 16/01/2021 - 12:11
            +10

            @spychiatrist: Only if you’re on a casual basis.
            Permanent part- and full-time positions are entitled to super, plus sick and anual leave.

          • Clear on 16/01/2021 - 12:34

            @spychiatrist: Well crap I am both blue collar and a white collar worker. How does that work?

            • SF3 on 16/01/2021 - 12:45

              @Clear: You are special :D

              Blue collar jobs at that said work place could be just casual roles. I think OP inferred his anecdotal evidence as a standard/stereotype/commonplace 🤔.

            • pharkurnell on 16/01/2021 - 14:10
              +4

              @Clear: I dont have any collared shirts :(

          • mrvaluepack on 16/01/2021 - 16:16
            +1

            @spychiatrist: I think you have not worked in Australia for long or understand the job market here to make this comment. They get salary and overtime which is usually built into their eba's.

  • kerfuffle on 15/01/2021 - 23:57
    +9

    As someone who was on a wage, and now on a salary, you definitely get annual and sick leave if a permanent member of staff on wages (as noted my SF3). You also still get paid if your working day falls on a public holiday

    The real question is do you prefer to be paid weekly, fortnightly, or monthly?

      • PissLUR on 16/01/2021 - 00:09
        +12

        I think you are referring to casual employment.

    • modiika on 18/01/2021 - 10:16

      My current role is salary and paid fortnightly. Previously, all my salaried roles were monthly.

      I dont think salaried vs hourly means anything particular about how you are paid. It's just custom for salaried jobs to be monthly in my experience.

  • haemolysis on 16/01/2021 - 00:05
    +8

    Theoretically there is no difference in pay when it’s normalised to the hours worked.

    But I say theoretically because the majority of salary workers seem to have signed up to a con where they agree to contracted hours (usually 38) that are well below the reality and live under the unwritten rule that “overtime as reasonably required” in practice means “overtime is without question always required.”

    • freefall101 on 16/01/2021 - 14:38
      +2

      This. Legally an employee can refuse to work unreasonable levels of overtime and if your wage drops below the award rate because of the level of overtime you've worked they need to pay you to make up the difference.

      However many, many employers break the law all the time and Fair Work is a mostly toothless body that will get you a bit of backpay when you're ultimately fired for questioning the amount of overtime you're being told to work.

      • McBanny on 17/01/2021 - 01:12

        Agree, this is what my pervious employee told me. Work overtime or get a new job…it’s sad to see company creating the culture so that overtime is normal

    • spychiatrist on 16/01/2021 - 15:13

      This is what I’m trying to avoid

    • [Deactivated] on 16/01/2021 - 21:00

      I have a english teacher friend who works like 50 hours a week

      • ur2dads on 17/01/2021 - 12:35

        Lol, teachers get paid for non term days (about 10 weeks if my calculations are correct), and they get 4 weeks AL on top of that.

        I'm sure they can live.

    • modiika on 18/01/2021 - 10:18

      Yeah, i guess the thing is in some professional industries, the market rate is so far above the NMS or award rate, that you can work an insane amount of unapid overtime and still not fall below that rate.

      In theory the salary should be higher than just if you were permanent but hourly fulltime. If its not , then there is no benefit to being salaried.

  • Transient on 16/01/2021 - 00:08

    Salary Pro: Also long service leave.

    • SF3 on 16/01/2021 - 00:13
      +13

      Unless it has changed.

      Permanent staff gets long service leave, Salary or Wages.

      • Clear on 16/01/2021 - 00:34

        Yep I'm on wage and have long service leave upcoming!

        • SF3 on 16/01/2021 - 01:04

          good on you :)

          sounds like you are happy/satisfied with your work/job. 👍

          • Clear on 16/01/2021 - 09:27

            @SF3: I wouldn't say that. It's more a case of there really isn't anywhere else that does the same as me. Or perhaps more accurately they don't have the same perks.

  • SF3 on 16/01/2021 - 00:12
    +21

    OP,

    Permanent = Annual leave, sick leave, paid public holiday

    Casual = No leave. No work, no pay

    Then,

    A person can either be on a Salary (I don't think you can be a casual on this, stand to be corrected) or Wage.

    Now, if someone is on a Salary, payslip will still show you pay by the hours (looks like a wage)

    Additionally,

    Whether someone is paid overtime or not, isn't decided by Salary or Wage (as MS Paint has mentioned).

  • bdl on 16/01/2021 - 00:14
    +5

    Celery

    • [Deactivated] on 16/01/2021 - 09:55

      Waze

  • Clear on 16/01/2021 - 00:33

    Wage all the way for that sweet sweet overtime. Clocked 15 hours of it this week and expect a lot more for the rest of the month. Admittedly some of it is actually going into my annual leave and that's good too.

  • Scrooge McDuck on 16/01/2021 - 00:34
    +2

    Capital Pros: Everyday is a holiday
    Capital Cons: Everyone thinks you're a drug dealer

  • Donaldhump on 16/01/2021 - 00:39
    +4

    You forgot the salary pro

    If you work short hours your paid more

    I.e. If you play gold and rock up to work at 11 then leave at 4

  • samcro on 16/01/2021 - 07:21
    +3

    A little confusing. I'm on a wage and get Holiday, sick leave and LS. I'm thinking you're confusing it with casual workers whom receive neither of those, but get a higher hourly rate.

  • Timbo94 on 16/01/2021 - 07:45

    What about being on a salary but getting paid for working overtime/public holidays/weekends?

  • Hardlyworkin on 16/01/2021 - 08:27
    +17

    With Trump banned from Twitter I was wondering where I would get my misinformation!

  • jjjaar on 16/01/2021 - 08:32
    +1

    Salary can also get time in lieu if you have a respectable workplace, so while some places don’t pay overtime, if you work more you can get a day off for that.

    • Quantumcat on 16/01/2021 - 15:54

      Yep senior public servant positions have this

      • jjjaar on 16/01/2021 - 21:42

        I get it with decent managers in a private company, with shit managers I get nothing…

    • modiika on 18/01/2021 - 10:20

      yeah this is the most common in my field. Overtime is super uncommon, but time in lieu is less so. Typically, this would apply if you had to work a public holiday.

  • brendanm on 16/01/2021 - 08:40
    +60

    New poll-

    • OP understands what salary and wages are

    • OP doesn't understand what salary and wages are

    • Puglife on 16/01/2021 - 08:51

      Casual wages are 25% usually above the normal hourly rate so if its full-time casual then you basically get annual leave/sick leave incorporated into your hourly rate.
      My preference would be wages as usually its paid weekly so every time you are low on money the next pay check is only a few days away.
      Also the people I know on salary have to pay their own super. So considering they only get $5000-$7500 more than I do, in reality I'm better off.

      • orangetrain on 16/01/2021 - 13:05
        +1

        Are you living paycheck to paycheck? What happens if a necessity is needed? Are you going to get a payday shark loan? Please save some money.

        • Puglife on 16/01/2021 - 14:38
          +1

          Haha I get your point but no I don't live paycheck to paycheck. I just feel it would be harder to manage a monthly wage as opposed to a weekly one. I actually don't believe in loans except for home loans. No credit cards, car loans etc…if I dont have the cash then I dont need it.

      • SBOB on 16/01/2021 - 13:46
        +3

        Also the people I know on salary have to pay their own super.

        This doesnt make much sense…
        You might be confused between salary workers and contractor workers

        • Puglife on 16/01/2021 - 14:37

          That's just what I hear with my business. I'm not a salary worker so idk, it did always sound odd to me. But I guess now that I think about it, they tell me their "yearly salary" and super is inclusive. Where as on my tax form my annual wage isn't inclusive of super. Idk, hope that clarifies it…

          • SBOB on 16/01/2021 - 14:50
            +5

            @Puglife: Just means they are quoting their earnings inclusive of super whereas you are looking at yours exclusive.

            They get paid $x/yr + $super = $y
            You bet paid $x/yr/hr + $super = $y

            They are telling you a $y number whereas you are looking at an $x number. Just different sides of the same equation. It's still $ being paid by the employer.

            Often salary is quoted inclusive of super, as overtime for a salary does not get paid additional super $ (in my experience)

            • modiika on 18/01/2021 - 10:24

              @SBOB: Yeah, i think that's jsut because employers always through your salary at you liek its some amazing package offer, when these days its generally just yearly pay + super.

              My salary is anice round number which is easy to remmeber, and i always forget my exact income minus super, so its just easier to quote the round number.

    • JungliChilli on 16/01/2021 - 18:40

      Let's start the poll here.
      If you'd like to vote copy the previous vote and add your vote.

      -OP understands what salary and wages are: 0

      -OP doesn't understand what salary and wages are: 1

  • ihbh on 16/01/2021 - 09:20
    +1

    You might want to qualify your poll with are you in senior management or not. In senior management, your manager doesn't give a damn how hard you work, they just want to get the desired result.

  • brad1-8tsi on 16/01/2021 - 09:26
    +2

    I think you have misunderstood what wages are. You are confusing it with contracting.

    Wages are what permanent workers get that aren't on a "package".

    Salary: Overall package. You get AL, LSL, Sick leave, etc. You don't get overtime or loading for working outside normal working hours. Generally there is a form of bonus associated with individual or company performance. Often paid monthly in private enterprise.

    Wages: Includes all the leave types. In addition to your normal pay you get OT, LSL and other allowances.

    Contract. You get paid. You cover all your leave, etc within that payment

    Edit: read the other comments and as always there are exceptions to everything

  • adzyau on 16/01/2021 - 10:19

    I am on a salary I guess but I also get paid overtime for working more than my 40hrs per week.

    • Grande Kintama on 16/01/2021 - 12:09

      Then you are most likely not on salary

      • adzyau on 16/01/2021 - 13:34

        Yeah i dont know what i am on haha. Im on a full time work agreement ??

      • SBOB on 16/01/2021 - 13:49
        +2

        Then you are most likely not on salary

        plenty of people would be on salary, with overtime paid for excess hours
        Being paid for hours over our normal working hours does not exclude you from being on 'salary', depends on employment conditions

        eg mine is overtime paid for any hours in excess of 2 more than normal working week (eg. if you have to do an hour or 2 extra for the week, thats reasonable overtime, if you do more, its paid…)

    • brad1-8tsi on 17/01/2021 - 23:17

      I am on a salary I guess but I also get paid overtime for working more than my 40hrs per week.

      Then you are wages just like me.

      My ex and my current GF both were on salary. They got paid the same whether they worked 20 hours or 80 hours. That included attending night meetings, community consultations, being on international conference calls, watching focus groups or knocking out work that had a deadline.

      One had a package that included a phone, laptop, ~$2000 of company product per year and a substantial performance bonus and some other perks.

      The other had phone, iPad, laptop and a fully maintained & fuelled company car.

      I just work 36hours and get flexible hours, leave loading, LSL, Al, personal leave, a small bonus package, and the choice of OT or time in lieu. The odd thing is there are other workers there that don't get OT because the silly buggers don't ask for it.

  • JimmyF on 16/01/2021 - 10:25
    +5

    I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't know what 'wages' really is.

    • Baysew on 16/01/2021 - 10:44
      +15

      Probably works in HR.

      • JungliChilli on 16/01/2021 - 18:41
        +2

        LulZ, I hate people in HR.

  • spychiatrist on 16/01/2021 - 10:33

    Updated

    • Baysew on 16/01/2021 - 10:47
      +1

      What workplace?
      Wages (blue collar) - What?
      Flat Rate - Now there is three options?

  • WreckTangle on 16/01/2021 - 10:48

    What do you mean flat rate…if its a form of wages it sounds unlawful if you don’t get paid extra for public holidays. By flat rate, do you mean casual (but still unlawful without extra public holiday pay)?

    • spychiatrist on 16/01/2021 - 11:15
      +1

      Contracting

      • deme on 17/01/2021 - 00:20
        +1

        Is this shame contracting?

    • dizzle on 17/01/2021 - 16:05

      Wages you get paid by the hour, so penalty rates normally apply. If you normally get paid $20/hr, you would then get $30/hr at certain penalty times. Casual is the same as this, but instead of AL/SL and predictable hours, they get higher rates.

      Salary (generally) factors penalty rates into your pay without you getting extra for working those hours. So the per hour rate will normally be higher, (say $25/hour for the equivalent job above) but you don't get the Sunday penalty rate.. It's also supposed to be higher to compensate for "reasonable" overtime.

      So the salary should not be below the equivalent award payment. So if a 38 hour a week job pays the award of $1000 a week including 8 hours on Sunday, then the Salary should not be lower than that. The advantage is that if the Salary person doesn't work the Sunday, they get paid more (per hour). But if they work 12 hours on the Sunday they are being underpaid.
      Same for the reasonable overtime. Most salary rates factor in that you will likely do a couple of extra hours a week. The trouble comes around who decides what is "reasonable". As a manager I am on salary. I would estimate that if I'm doing more than 5 hours a week extra, I may as well be on a wage rate. So it is up to me to manage that and make sure I either get the work done in the normal sort of time, or get Time in Lieu for extra hours worked.

  • SF3 on 16/01/2021 - 11:16

    At this workplace, there are 3 options:

    Your new edit, IMO it’ll depend how much $ they are paying for each type, as they may have already adjusted the pay rate accordingly to offset any significant advantages. So, each pay type on it’s own isn’t enough to tell what works out better overall.

    If you have a spreadsheet, I would suggest that you key in each $ and forecast the $ into an annualised pay to see what works out better for you.

    • spychiatrist on 16/01/2021 - 11:22

      From the comments, hourly is the way to go. As I don't want to be working overtime and not get paid for it.

      I got confused between Wages and Contracting (Flat Rate)

  • hmac on 16/01/2021 - 11:57

    I am on a salary, but i get paid hourly. I get paid weekend and PH rates and i get paid overtime?

    I also get sick leave and annual leave

  • AustriaBargain on 16/01/2021 - 12:10

    If I was on salary and my contract said I get paid hourly or that overtime one week is balanced out by equally less time next week, then you can be quite sure I wouldn't ever be working "for free" because I'm "on salary". I can't think of any employer I'd care enough to work for free outside of the contracted agreement.

  • Mrokire on 16/01/2021 - 14:41

    Working on wages, getting double pay on sat and sunday working like 5days already. Wages better

    • serpserpserp on 16/01/2021 - 16:04

      When I worked in call centres many moons ago I use to do the Sat and Sunday evening shifts. Pay was so good that I only had to work about 3 and a bit days a week to match the pay of the guys working 8-4pm Mon-Friday.

      While the guys that worked graveyard had it even better. Sat-Sun graveyard shift was about the equivalent of the 5 day 8-6 job!

  • serpserpserp on 16/01/2021 - 16:02

    My work will give me time in lieu if i work a full weekend. It isn't part of the agreement, but if you are legit working it because you need to, get a day off at the other end.

  • Cartman2530 on 16/01/2021 - 16:20

    I work in an office and I get paid wages since I was previously working a blue collar job in the same company and was promoted. I get annual leave and sick leave since I have a permanent full time position.

    Your cons for wages is incorrect. Casual would be different though, did you mean that?

  • lookingforTV on 16/01/2021 - 17:05
    +2

    OP needs to go back to high school and learn about different employment arrangements….

  • deme on 16/01/2021 - 17:59

    Wages (blue collar)

    🤣

    OP is this your first job ever?

    Flat rate, everything built in you hourly wage but you get paid more the longer you work (I believe this is what head hunters, recruitment agencies offer)

    Wat? I've only been offered salary via these folk.

  • TheBird on 16/01/2021 - 20:18

    Don't care much about either of those… For me, it's all about the bonus structure for results.

  • berger on 16/01/2021 - 21:25

    Salary is easier for my accountant at work.

    3 salary and 3 casuals, all set hours, above award

    No messing around with hours changing, bank transfer fortnightly and easy.

    Now looking for another full timer but impossible to find staff for a $45k wage in Retail

    • Sidog on 18/01/2021 - 11:05

      What would a full time retail staff normally be on or expect?

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