Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Mobile Phone RF …Health Conspiracy or Not?

MMM on 04/06/2021 - 16:49
Last edited 04/06/2021 - 18:14 by 1 other user

Not so much into conspiracy theories! I wear a smart watch, use wireless M&K/B, mobile phone next to me, dual 4G & NBN router, Orbi AP, Alexa, Google, Hue …etc, etc numerous smart devices throughout the home and started wondering is this so smart? People reluctant ATM on Astra Zeneca yet Gov & medical say it is perfectly safe? Hmmm?

Years ago, signs at Airports said X-ray would not harm photo film, which was true if one or two times, but it was cumulative and if you went thru multiple times, it would definitely degrade film. Had peers pass away at a relatively young age from cancer, brain tumors etc. just got me thinking? …Not about to go off the grid but thought a poll would be interesting and maybe why? Is it convenience? Or just trust the science!

Poll Options

  • 72
    No danger
  • 14
    Undecided
  • 4
    Reluctant to use
Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • SF3 on 04/06/2021 - 17:16
    +1

    Tiny foil for protection?

    People reluctant ATM on Astra Zeneca yet Gov & medical say it is perfectly safe?
    Years ago, signs at Airports said X-ray would not harm photo film

    One is more immediate when if it screws up. Like a tungsten globe.

    The other is accumulative. Like a slow dying fluro tube.

    • mskeggs on 04/06/2021 - 17:42
      +9

      Nobody says the vaccine is perfectly safe. There is lots of research showing the risks, and science is trying really hard to understand any risks.

      Medicine is saying the risks of the vaccine are much, much lower than the risks of the illness that it protects you from.

      • SF3 on 04/06/2021 - 17:53
        +3

        Nobody says the vaccine is perfectly safe.

        yep - agree.

        What we, as humans tend to be short-sighted, focus on the immediate dangers and often neglect the longer term (and often less visible and the science is less exact and takes time to understand when new evidence emerge).

    • iridiumstem on 05/06/2021 - 13:47

      Yep, I personally don't think there is such thing as 100% when it comes to anything that requires sampling of the population with people.

      I have read someone comparing masks to condoms on Facebook, arguing that masks don't provide 100% protection so why bother.
      The problem with that is… condoms are not 100% protection either. I think 98% effectiveness is what they say with perfect usage scenario and 85% in real life scenario.

      Just going to add, please don't take my comment as don't use condom.

  • SF3 on 04/06/2021 - 17:19
    +1

    numerous smart devices throughout the home and started wondering is this so smart?

    What I have observed is, non-smart devices tends to be more durable (e.g. the smart component appears to breakdown faster than the hardware it is controlling). I remember the days when microwave ovens only had a mechanical timer, they seem to last ages!

    • Blue Cat on 04/06/2021 - 17:27
      +4

      I remember the days when microwave ovens only had a mechanical timer, they seem to last ages!

      My parents got one as a gift when they got married back in the 90's - it lasted 20+ years without a single problem and they only got a new one because the microwave looked so outdated compared to everything else in their modern kitchen.

      Planned obsolescence is every company's new motto, no matter how much they virtue signal about caring for the environment… I am looking at you, Apple!

  • Blue Cat on 04/06/2021 - 17:23
    -7

    I remember reading that if you are so afraid of all those radio waves that phones and WiFi transmits, then you should never EVER let the sun shine on your skin, because 1 minute in the sun amounts to 1 year of a smartphone being next to you.
    I can't find these studies right now so the source is just trust me bro, but I really doubt any of those radio transmissions should be something you worry about.

    As for the COVID vaccine, can you really call it a vaccine? If you get it, you can still get infected, you can still infect others… it's not a vaccine! Chickenpox vaccine is the real vaccine, as it actually fully prevents from contracting chickenpox.

    You seem to have a lot of faith in our government, but I wouldn't trust them so much, or any authority figure. At least have the ability to question "what if?"
    You know, government had no problems using asbestos, or letting doctors recommend cigarettes for stress relief, even smoking at home next to your children. Then pappa gubment spins around and says "lolz sorry guys, I guess it is cancerous lmao sorry for that". What makes you think they won't do the same with the COVID "vaccine"?
    Also, why are all COVID vaccine manufacturers signing responsibility waivers with the governments, saying that manufacturers are not responsible for anything at all that happens to the vaccine recipient? It's just too much stuff that has got me questioning everything, man!

    Now excuse me while I douse myself in deadly radioactivity of my laptop, smartphone and WiFi.

    • terrys on 05/06/2021 - 08:26
      +1

      " Chickenpox vaccine is the real vaccine, "

      Almost. It was orginally cowpox however that virus has mutated to another form vaccinia. The term "vaccine derived from the Latin adjective vaccinus, meaning "of or from the cow", so smallpox is controlled by vaccination, other diseases are technically "innoculations". They are very artificial, proper, and useful.

  • mskeggs on 04/06/2021 - 17:40
    +18

    It is generally really hard to coherently argue against these kind of scare stories, because the people spreading them aren’t really interested in learning what is real if it takes even a tiny amount of effort.

    The main way science works is to continually improve understanding. This means past wisdom is replaced by something better. So we don’t bleed people of foul humours any more. Similarly, I suspect chemotherapy, as an example, will be replaced by a much more effective treatment in future, and people will look back at the idea of deliberately injecting poison as barbaric.
    But I would still take chemotherapy now if I had cancer!

    When science says non-ionising radiation, or COVID vaccines are safe, they really mean the risk is so small for nearly everyone in standard use, that it can be ignored.

    Your example of x-ray and film is a good one. An airport x-ray won’t damage your holiday photos, but if your hobby is taking film canisters through x-rays multiple times a day, you will see impacts.

    So today, in Australia, we have had a person die from COVID vaccination related clotting, and about 1000 die from the virus. Considering there have been millions of vaccinations, and comparatively few COVID infections, the chances of an adverse outcome from the vaccination are very, very low.

    Is that a guarantee that we won’t discover the vaccine has a side effect only uncovered in a few decades? No, it isn’t, but since we know the virus is deadly, and the vaccine almost isn’t, it is pretty good odds.

    People are right to assess risks for new things they encounter. I am suspicious of artificial sweeteners, for example, and some of the ingredients in energy drinks.
    For me, the likely small risk that one day they could prove harmful is enough for me to avoid them, because I don’t gain any benefit.
    But people who really like those products are probably right to weigh up the risks and conclude the possibility of harm from those ingredients is very, very small.

    The problem happens, when people fail to evaluate risks well, and just say ‘No’ if it can impact the wider community. Examples are people who drink and drive, or come to work sick, or don’t take vaccines.

    So by all means evaluate the risks and benefits, but do so in a considered way, not just a meme you saw on facebook.

    • MMM on 04/06/2021 - 17:58
      +1

      Very sound argument and fully agree with your statements. We do weigh risk versus benefit and sometimes we justify convenience. My wife smothered Johnson's baby powder on the kids but now know better. I did some stupid things when I was young like spray paint cars without a mask, install pot belly flues into asbestos using an angle grinder again no mask, when young you always think people are over reacting. Recently heard of a very successful insurance salesman I knew who spent most of his life on the mobile phone only to pass away from a brain tumor, could be unrelated but who knows?

      • mbck on 04/06/2021 - 19:42
        +3

        Stories vs actual facts and figures are different.

        Stories are meant to elicit an emotional response. What if I told you billions of people uses phones and they're all still living? Who knows…

        • MMM on 05/06/2021 - 02:25

          Personally I prefer stories, Facts and figures are depressing

          "Epidemiological studies provided supportive evidence of increased risk for head and brain tumours, i.e., acoustic neuroma and glioma. The working group reached the conclusion that RF radiation from devices that emit non-ionizing RF radiation in the frequency range 30 kHz-300 GHz, is a Group 2B, i.e. a 'possible', human carcinogen (3,4). Later studies have corroborated these findings and have thus strengthened the evidence (5–8)"

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5504984/

          • terrys on 05/06/2021 - 08:32
            +2

            @MMM: Although presented as a scientific paper, I'm having trouble ascertaining where the author states their null hypotheses and expands on their attempts to disprove them among the unqualified attempts to ascertain and impunge the motives of people they don't know.

          • mbck on 05/06/2021 - 09:32
            +2

            @MMM: The heating effects arise when radiation is so high that it warms up the whole body by 1°C or more after 30 min exposure at 4 W/kg specific absorption rate.

            I mean my galaxy fold is .42W/kg. So ofc if you almost increase something by 10 times it may cause a different issue.

            Imagine eating 200g of meat vs 2kg of meat. Or sleeping for 8 hrs, vs 80 hrs. Maybe we should work 400 hours a week instead of 40 hrs too…

            In saying that, I'm not underplaying the potential effect. I'm merely calling out the overexaggeration. WHO having dodgy things happening? Oh what a surprise….

            And that's the wrong thought process. Being emotional will achieve nothing. Look at what the facts present. Be as objective as possible to enact the change required.

            • peteru on 06/06/2021 - 02:34
              -1

              @mbck:

              Imagine eating 200g of meat vs 2kg of meat.

              I don't need to imagine. It's actually not that hard as long as you supplement the meat with enough raw fruit and veg.

  • Drakesy on 04/06/2021 - 18:16
    +2

    Average life span is still increasing.
    So no

    • namanuu on 04/06/2021 - 18:32
      +1

      Some say Exercise is the best offset for all these signals … OP go for a walk?..

      • Drakesy on 04/06/2021 - 23:12
        +5

        Also not watching sky news is scientifically shown to dramatically reduce conspiracy theory propagation

    • SlartiBartFozz on 06/06/2021 - 14:01

      Longer lifespan doesn't tell the whole story for increasing cancer rates, neither does better detection :

      Neonatal/congenital leukaemia is estimated at 1-5 cases/million live births; Infant leukaemia is estimated at 41 cases per million in the United States.
      Infant leukaemia's have been suspected to have an environmental component, Some of the leukaemia's known to be often related to genotoxic exposure, such as the 11q23 leukaemia's and the t(8;16) leukaemia, may also be found in infants; There has been a significant increase in infant acute leukaemia's incidence of around 2.5% per year for 15 yrs, suggesting the presence of an environmental factor.

      What those environmental factors are varies from country to country, e.g. radon exposure, chemical / plastics use, airborne toxins from smoke/gas/etc, chlorine disinfection byproducts, such as trihalomethanes (THMs), haloacetic acids (HAAs), chlorite, and bromate.

      • Drakesy on 06/06/2021 - 14:28

        But overall we're still living longer

  • Wystri Warrick on 04/06/2021 - 19:07
    +1

    Anyone remember that tinfoil hat guy who used to post in every single deal and forum post that was about devices with RF signals?

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 04/06/2021 - 19:26
      +2

      Sadly he passed, Big RF finally caught up with him.

      • moar bargains on 05/06/2021 - 20:16
        +1

        This gave me a good chuckle 😂

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 04/06/2021 - 19:26

    So OP, the red or the blue M&M?

  • mbck on 04/06/2021 - 19:40
    +2

    Ionising vs non ionising.

    • MMM on 05/06/2021 - 01:36
      -1

      Yea, not a big fan of ironing. Maybe this reference may help… 31 scientists from 14 countries came to the conclusion on non‐ionizing radiation as a watch and see:
      https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/pr208_E.…

      WHO: PRESS RELEASE N° 208 31 May 2011 IARC CLASSIFIES RADIOFREQUENCY ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS AS POSSIBLY CARCINOGENIC TO HUMANS
      "the evidence, while still accumulating, is strong enough to support a conclusion and the 2B classification. The conclusion means that there could be some risk, and therefore we need to keep a close watch for a link between cellphones and cancer risk."

      …like these scientists I'm sitting on the fence (Undecided), I enjoy my tech and wont be dumping it anytime soon :) interesting though with the Poll, the tribe has spoken!

      • mbck on 05/06/2021 - 11:27

        You need glasses? Where'd you get ironing from…

        Spoiler alert. There are a lot of things that can cause cancer. Even eating can damage your cell lining and cause oesophageal cancer. Heck breathing the air since it's not 'clean' may give you lung cancer.

        Who knows, maybe reading what you wrote might give me brain tumour too. Maybe the stressing about all these things will cause you cancer somewhere.

        As above, I'm not underplaying the potential effect. I'm merely calling out the overexaggeration.

        I set my phone to automatically go into airplane mode at night. No smart anything in the bedroom except a plug for my electric blanket (oh no, cancer there).

      • Drakesy on 06/06/2021 - 14:30
        +1

        Everythings possibly carcinogenic to humans though. Really they're just covering all their bases, doesnt really say anything

  • Clear on 04/06/2021 - 20:34

    I swear the Cisco access points we installed in schools 8 years ago made you feel warm if you stood under them too long.

  • Oofy Doofy on 04/06/2021 - 22:02

    To me, I'm more concerned about the micron particle matter in the air we inhale… some of it is so small (and cell damaging) that it can get into the brain through the blood.

  • iridiumstem on 05/06/2021 - 01:55

    I had heard of few of the rumours how people who worked in the radar sites had a lot of daughters, and not many sons.
    That was one of the things I have heard from way back when I used to work with people most of whom had been working in the radar sites at least for a few years of their life due to their specialties.

    Granted, they weren't the most scientific of the bunch and it was more of a gossip than anything.
    Not something that someone has actually done the counting, did an analysis on things, and could say that it is above statistical probabilities, but rather, something to do a mindless banter on during a long hour night shift.

    Though, I wouldn't be too surprised if they were exposed to a lot of radar radiations, since they were working in the era when safety wasn't as much of a concern and a lot of them have been working for 20 ish years.

  • MontyMacaw on 05/06/2021 - 08:05

    WIFI IS 5G!! Read on….. I’ve experienced this set of phobias from a close family member, well educated, medical background and I was aghast they could be so gullible. It turns out that a lot of people with some medical education fall into the same slot. They are not drs or specialists but have enough knowledge to think that these things are “possible” and that is enough to turn off the wifi every night, throw away the smart watch and not get vaccinated. The most amazing thing to me anyway, was that they thought the 5ghz band on their wifi was 5G. I tried first to explain that regardless of the obvious mistake 5G is weaker than 4G but that got me nowhere. I gave up after that and left them to their looney beliefs and put some distance between us- about 2000km to be exact..

    • AncientWisdom on 05/06/2021 - 12:36

      5G is weaker than 4G?

      Not sure about that (link?) But it is definitely closed to the ionizing radiation range.

      • MontyMacaw on 05/06/2021 - 21:29

        My understanding is that it is - radiation-wise anyway. That is why so many more sites are required as it can’t penetrate buildings as well for example. I stand to be corrected of course. There is so much misinformation out there, right?

  • SlartiBartFozz on 05/06/2021 - 13:00

    Air Travel scanners like the backscatter xray devices at Australian airports are becoming more widespread globally, but unless you were travelling every day, your radiation exposure risk is likely to be at age levels:

    One general use backscatter scan radiation dose = 0.01 mrem

    One day of natural background radiation = ~ 1 mrem (10 backscatter scans)

    Average domestic airplane flight (one way) = 4 mrem (40 backscatter scans)

    Typical chest x ray = 10 mrem (100 backscatter scans)

    Typical abdominal x ray = 70 mrem (700 backscatter scans)

    Annual maximum radiation dose recommended limit = 100 mrem (1,000 backscatter scans)

    Mobile devices pose a unique risk, since they are focusing the effect on a small part of the body, i.e. head/hand/pocket
    The scientific jury on long term use is still out, but the evidence is growing in favour of declaring them a probable carcinogen.

    It's worth noting that higher frequencies are safer than lower frequencies, 5 GHz is safer than 2.4 GHz, due to the fact that it is less capable of reaching far distances or penetrating walls; Similarly, 5G cellular network is safer than 4G and earlier networks, for the same reason. The downside is you need more towers in more places which balances out the risk/benefit; if you're in your house it's likely to be a similar risk, but on the street there is likely a slightly higher average exposure, assuming the 5G network is completed, which is still years away.

  • OzHunterNSW on 05/06/2021 - 15:04

    I am more worried about the neighbour spraying his weeds resulting in me suffering headaches, nose bleeds, and dizziness.

    A butcher who "wood cures" pork, with toxic fumes permeating my entire house.

    Noisy powerful refrigerator pumps sounding like jumbo jets, 24/7.

    People burning whatever material in their back yard fire pits at night.

    Drug induced people wandering the streets looking for easy targets.

    Unregoed, uninsured drivers… and the list goes on and on

  • TEER3X on 05/06/2021 - 20:22

    I don't use my mobile much to talk, but I do know if I do talk on it for a while, my ear/brain on that side feels a little weird. Doesn't happen with a regular phone.

    Also, when I got my first mobile many years ago, I tried not to keep it in my pocket next to the family jewels, no idea if that makes any difference.

    As for the vaccine, I'm getting the Pfizer one (I think) soon. Not looking forward to it, but feel like it is a necessity at this point.

  • peteru on 06/06/2021 - 02:25
    +2

    Had peers pass away at a relatively young age from cancer, brain tumors etc. just got me thinking?

    Well, think of it this way: Most of those peers, possibly including yourself, would have not made it past childhood a hundred years ago. In addition to causes that are now treatable, people used to die from exactly the same causes back then, but there was not enough knowledge to diagnose those causes. I'm sure that without antibiotics I would have died decades ago. The diagnosis would have probably been "fever".

    Either way, there's no point in overthinking it and worrying about it. Live within the limits of the environment you are in and if you want to push the boundaries, use science to advance the knowledge of our society. Engaging in idiotic conspiracy theories is just throwing fuel on the fire. They do not deserve any attention.

  • Windows7forever on 03/03/2023 - 23:40

    I do worry about mobile phone use sometimes. I usually can't fall asleep without watching YouTube videos on my phone which sits on my bedside table. The phone is less than 50cm from my head. Maybe I should move it further away or take it out of the room when I am about to fall asleep.

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