Being Ripped off by Wall-Mount Installation Team When Buying a TV from The Good Guys

I am from Adelaide. I recently bought a TV 75" from the Good Guys (for $1700) https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/samsung-75-inches-au8000-4k-u...

I paid $300 for wall mounting. The wall-mount installation is arranged through the Good Guys by an external company.

On the day of wall mounting, I was charged $100 extra for concealing the cable under the wall and I am happy with that. Then, the staffs suggested me to provide:
* 2x HDMI cables (3m).
* 1x Surge Protector
* 1x 5m Fly Lead
They didnot tell me that they will charge me extra. I thought they are included in the cost.

At the invoice payment, they charged me:
* 2x HDMI cables (3m) = 2x $100 = $200
* 1x Surge Protector = $100
* 1x 5m Fly Lead = 39$

All the HDMI cables and surge protector are still visible outside the board. Thus, I can confirm that these are the one they provided to me
* $11 each (charged me $100 each) https://www.inkstation.com.au/high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-eth...?
* $28 (charged me $100) https://www.amazon.com.au/SANSAI-Outlets-Charging-Charger-Pr...
* $12 (charged me $39) https://www.amazon.com.au/White-Antenna-Cable-Aerial-Flylead...

I have called the installers to justify the costs. However, they said that they have installed the "high-quality" product and refused to discount/refund.

I was charged $200 for 2 HDMI cables which are worth $20. Do you have any suggestion on where should I proceed with the formal complaint about this?

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Total $749 for wall-mount installation cost, excluding the wall-mount kit.

Receipt 1: labour cost $300 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rt276vsmudimlxi/Receipt_1_TGG.PNG?...
Receipt 2: extra installation (above thread) $439 https://www.dropbox.com/s/swb3vcm29t6b9j4/Receipt_2_TGG.PNG?...

===============================================================================================
This is the photo after wall-mount installation https://www.dropbox.com/s/6739ik0puvrg3p6/after_installation...

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Update 1: I have contacted the Good Guy who said that they will contact the installers and get back to me…

Update 2: The GoodGuy has reviewed this case and contacted the installers. The installers has got back and offered the refund of $220 back to me. In particular, the costs have been updated as follows:
* 2x HDMI cables (3m) = 2x $100 = $200 (previously charged) => $50
* 1x Surge Protector = $100 (previously charged) => $50
* 1x 5m Fly Lead = 39$ (previously charged) => 20$

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Comments

  • +25 votes

    I agreed with the additional items although the staffs did not explain to me how much each individual item will cost.

    Expensive mistake on your part.

    You already paid it? If not, don't and return them.

    If did pay, why not question it before paying and they can take them back?

    • +1 vote

      hi dmbmirate, we can not take them back because they are partially concealing under the wall although I can still see one side of the HDMI cable.
      Note that, the power surge is completely outside and can be removed.

      I paid because I initially thought they charged $440 including the $300 labour fee. But then I realised that $300 fee has been already paid to The Good Guy.

      • +11 votes

        so you paid $770 for all that trouble? For that amount I think you can a bunch of holes on your wall to run and hide cables however you like, patched them and paint the whole wall back.

        • -34 votes

          My understanding is any cabling inside walls must be done by qualified electrician.

            • +22 votes

              @Feistl: Even telecommunication cabling including ethernet must be done by a registered cabler if it’s concealed. You also can’t run extension cords inside a wall.

              AS3000 is worth a read

              • +1 vote

                @Vote for Pedro: I would like to read this… Do you know where I can get a free copy?

                A lot of pages require you to purchase to read a copy.

                • +27 votes

                  @4iedemon: Try your local library. Paid access to legally binding standards is a bit of a joke, but that's the world we live in apparently.

                  • +4 votes

                    @abb: yeah thats what i was thinking… if its a standard thats set by the regulatory bodies it should be available for free for everyone to see…

                  • +1 vote

                    @abb: They stopped access at libraries and there was a uproar. Might be able to search it with PDF on the end on a search engine and get lucky, I did recently for some other standards

              •  

                @Vote for Pedro: Can you run power cord through a wall? If yes, why not an extension cord?

                • +3 votes

                  @Calam05: Because it’s illegal. End of story.

                  • +2 votes

                    @joelhinch: "because I said so" is the justification for a lot of beureaucratic crap isn't it.

                    • +2 votes

                      @bmerigan: Pretty much. But it’s more of less because there is a standard to be adhered to. The cabling behind walls must match the standard because anything behind the wall is deemed permanent. An extension lead may be of different gauge of cable for example. It’s a safety measure so that someone else doesn’t come along and plug something into the extension lead that could potentially overload the lead and cause a fire. However unlikely, the laws are there for a reason.

                      • +1 vote

                        @joelhinch: Seems there may be quite a lot of non compliant works being done by OzBargain members.

                        Standards don’t come about because some bureaucrat thought ‘how can i make life miserable for people’. They come about because something happened that led to the standard or there were advances in knowledge.

                        Kind of like that show air crash investigation. The show an incident and then describe how it led to a change in safety standards.

                        • +5 votes

                          @Vote for Pedro: Thanks for the neg.

                          Seems the ‘common sense’ brigade don’t like ‘standards’ because they just use their noggin to ‘do the right thing’. Sorta like all those Sydneysiders using their ‘common sense’ during this lockdown and ignoring the non rule ‘rules’

                          Its the perfect example why enforceable rules need to exist.

                        • +3 votes

                          @Vote for Pedro: Standards are written in blood unfortunately.

                        • +2 votes

                          @Vote for Pedro:

                          Standards don’t come about because some bureaucrat thought ‘how can i make life miserable for people’. They come about because something happened that led to the standard or there were advances in knowledge

                          Absolutely. I think few would disagree with the standards. What many disagree with is that it can only be done by registered/qualified electricians/cablers. Having done a lot of home electrical work (back in the UK) that met or exceeded the appropriate standards, some of the "proper" installations I've seen done here are really poor. They may meet the standard (though a few certainly don't) but many of us could do work to the same or better standard.

                          Standards aren't the issue, it's the sparkies' union having pushed for legislation decades ago to restrict who can do the work.

                          •  

                            @banana365: Don’t blame the union for pushing trained professionals to do the job. Blame the people who f^%#cked up the home handy work so badly that rules had to be brought in.

                            I for one am glad that only people with licences can drive cars on our roads. Seems like you’d be happy for unlicensed drivers on our roads because ‘they know better’

                            •  

                              @Vote for Pedro:

                              Seems like you’d be happy for unlicensed drivers on our roads because ‘they know better’

                              Seems like you'd be happy to be called a fool for making wildly incorrect assumptions.

                              •  

                                @banana365: Yet here we are. You’re happy to allow unqualified and unlicensed people to undertake electrical works because you know better.

                                •  

                                  @Vote for Pedro: More incorrect assumptions.

                                  • -1 vote

                                    @banana365:

                                    What many disagree with is that it can only be done by registered/qualified electricians/cablers. Having done a lot of home electrical work (back in the UK) that met or exceeded the appropriate standards, some of the "proper" installations I've seen done here are really poor.

                                    That’s right, you use the Alan Jones style language to say ‘many disagree’ or ‘people in the streets are saying’ when in fact it’s just you.

                                    • -2 votes

                                      @Vote for Pedro: Have a look at the Part P regulations in the UK and you'll see where I'm coming from. It's not the free for all you seem to think I'm suggesting.

                                      • +1 vote

                                        @banana365: Except this is Australia, so those rules are irrelevant

                                        •  

                                          @Vote for Pedro: I know, I thought it was obvious that it was meant as an indication of what can be deemed appropriate for non-certified individuals to do, but obviously not obvious enough.

                                          Do you believe every regulation in Australia is the best that there is and no influence or information from other countries should be considered?

                                          •  

                                            @banana365: Laws are never perfect and of course are subject to change for the better (or sometimes worse). I’d encourage you to lobby your local MP or vote for a party that see’s it your way.

                                            Engage in the process if you want to change the rules, lobby or protest or whatever.

                                            You can’t just not follow the rules because someone somewhere says it might be ok. You’re breaking the law.

                          • +1 vote

                            @banana365: Problem is that rules are generally made for the lowest common denominator. i.e the morons. And the rest of society has to follow. To your point I've seen a lot of shoddy work by licensed electricians which I've 'illegally' rectified

                            • -1 vote

                              @gimme: Yep, I've watched sparkies on fit out jobs that I've worked on and "subtly" asked "so when are you going to earth that?" (as they're packing up their tools), "is that enough separation from those data cables?" and the like.

                              When an unqualified person can spot the glaring errors of the qualified contractor, you can't help but question the trust people have in the qualification.

                              •  

                                @banana365: That goes for any profession. There are shonky operators everywhere. Would you believe that even some police are criminals.

                                The question is, did you do anything about it like reporting it to an industry body, leave a review to warn potential future customers or something? If so, good. If not, well you would be part of the problem.

                                • -1 vote

                                  @Vote for Pedro: You really don't like me do you, or do you just like imagining where I might have done something you can disagree with?

                                  Zip yourself up and step away from the internet for a while.

                                  •  

                                    @banana365: No, not personal. You have a vendetta or superiority complex against qualified sparkies and your views may encourage people to do something illegal and even worse, something dangerous that kills someone.

                                    • -1 vote

                                      @Vote for Pedro: I mustn't have communicated my views properly or you're misinterpreting them. There is no vendetta against qualified sparkies. You think I want family members and friends out of a job? Incompetent sparkies piss me off (like anyone that's incompetent in performing whatever role they're paid for, particularly if it results in unsafe situations) though how that can interpreted as a vendetta I don't know. Neither am I encouraging anyone to do anything illegal nor anything that they're not capable of.

                                      What I would like is that the basic tasks like swapping powerpoints, changing ceiling roses/light fittings etc. were permitted (which is why I mentioned the UK Part P regs earlier). I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal, just lamenting that some of these things are illegal. There's a difference there that you must be able to see.

                                      Also, don't assume that illegality is what stops people that think they're up to the job from doing it (Dunning-Kruger and all that). There will always be people that don't care and do it anyway, regardless of their competence.

                                      Part of the drive for those people is that some of the tasks are truly simple and take ten minutes (like those mentioned above).

                                      "I can afford the $20 for this socket, but I can't afford/don't want to pay the $200 a sparky will charge me to turn up."

                                      Far better to permit the simple stuff, with clear delineations of what's beyond the scope of DIY. I That would help stop those who think along the lines of "this stuff is simple, clearly they're lying about how hard everything" else is so I'm going to give that a try too." That's where the danger lies.

                                      Now I'm happy to continue this if you disagree with anything specific that I've written and want to discuss that (because I'm not arrogant enough to think that there aren't possible problems with the above), but if you're just going to imagine situations or opinions, attribute them to me and then argue against those then we're going to get nowhere and it won't be worth the time for either of us.

                                      •  

                                        @banana365: It’s quite simple really. If you disagree with the rules, do something about that. Don’t encourage (encouragement takes many forms) people to do something illegal/dangerous because you ‘think it should be legal’ for you to do it as you wish.

                                        •  

                                          @Vote for Pedro: OK, your final sentence confirms you're not really comprehending what I've written. Bye.

                •  

                  @Calam05: I mean sure, that $3 extension cord from Bunnings will do the job for you.

                  (Note: no it won’t - tongue firmly in cheek - do not run an extension through wall)

                  Unless you are a qualified electrician and know what the standards are I would stay away from anything to do with ‘power cords through walls’

          • +3 votes

            @Vote for Pedro: Do people neg stuff because it's incorrect, or they just don't agree ? It's hard to keep up sometimes.

            • +1 vote

              @scottb721: Essentially flexible cords in walls are classed as installation wiring and need to meet certain minimum requirements.

              One of those requirements is been a licenced electrican as it is installing installation wiring.

              Unless you're licensed I'd stay away from it.

            •  

              @scottb721: Either, both or generally because they have no authority in real life or lonely.

              • +1 vote

                @gimme: I’m an electrician and we run flex cables through walls all the time.

                If your worried about the legalities, then get a longer power cord for your tv, cut the male plug off, pass it though the wall and then wire the plug top back on. 100% legal to rewire your own plug top, and no extension cord.

          • +2 votes

            @Vote for Pedro: You're being incorrectly downvoted unfortunately. You're correct that any permanent cabling can only legally installed by a licensed cabler (although not necessarily an electrician).

            Same goes for low voltage stuff like ethernet in wall cavities or crawl spaces etc.

            • +1 vote

              @skittlebrau: I just love it that it’s more than likely the same type that scream ‘RuLe Of LaW’ when people different to them do something wrong.

              I will call out I’m no expert in any of this, but I’ve seen some incredibly dangerous home handyperson work because ‘the rules are stoopid’

    •  

      I am a licensed electrician. Running the power cord for the TV through the wall cavity is a bit of a grey area and like many other things in AS 3000 is open to interpretation.
      It is not good practice but the one of the main reasons it should not be done is that in the unlikely event of a fire, the insurance inspector will for sure tell you it’s not allowed and good luck getting paid out as it will be seen as unlicensed electrical work.

  • +38 votes

    I agreed with the additional items

    You agreed.. Wheres the issue?

    Do you have any suggestion on where should I proceed with the formal complaint about this

    OzBargain

    • +5 votes

      OzBargain

      done and check

    • +2 votes

      What price do you say OP agreed? Whatever the installer decides?

      Where parties reach an agreement for work to be done but do not discuss price legally the price is set on a quantum meruit basis, i.e., what the work is actually worth commercially.

    • +20 votes

      The issue isn't the price of the cables or if the OP agreed that these items weren't included in the install.

      From what the OP has described, the issue is that the costs were not made clear before the items were used in the install. The OP is under no obligation to pay anything where costs are unknown. By law, a consumer cannot agree to these terms. Even if the OP signed a physical contract saying they agree to pay uncapped charges, if the contract wasn't very clear on the costs, then it would be invalid. So it's entirely reasonable to think they would just be included if there was no mention of price.

      There is nothing in the consumer law act that prevents a business from setting unfair prices. The installers can charge whatever they like for the cables. However, they need to make the prices of the items clear to ensure their agreement with the OP is legally valid. In this example, if they discover that an item is needed to complete the install then they should seek agreement on the costs of that item before commencing.

      https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/consumers-and-unfair-co...

      I'm aware it's common practice to add in extra undisclosed costs for materials used with a lot of services (electricians, plumbers etc), but it doesn't make it legal. The views of the ozbargain lynchmob also don't make it legal.

  • +11 votes

    I agreed with the additional items although the staffs did not explain to me how much each individual item will cost.

    because you didnt ask?

    • +1 vote

      that is my mistake. I thought the installation team is arranged by the Good Guy, so I trusted and didnot ask them explicitly the cost of the HDMI cables.

      • +1 vote

        unfortunately this is on you.

        Could make a complaint to good guys I guess but nothing is likely to come of it.

        Honestly, you should expect a mark up of some sort from these guys or they're just shuffling money around for shits and giggles. Their mark up was admittedly excessive though.

  • +19 votes

    That sucks, but you did agree to it all without checking the costs.

    The additional cost you paid for the cords etc is just business. Some places charge more, some charge less.
    You can’t get upset with them after agreeing to it and then finding it cheaper.

    • +2 votes

      He thought he was paying $140 for the extras, as he forgot he paid the $300 install prior.

      PS: OP should have come on here and asked questions prior.

    •  

      I love this comment.

    • +6 votes

      Yes you can get upset with them, its totally exploitative and well beyond any reasonable commercial markup. Taking advantage of people's trust or ignorance to rip them off. Total scum IMO

      • +1 vote

        I agree, its a total scum bag move by the company and very unethical but so are many businesses.
        Someone mentioned below a list of examples of how we all potentially could get ripped off daily.

        There is no limit to a reasonable commercial mark up other than what is perceived acceptable.
        how much do you think that $1700 tv cost to make? How much did tgg buy it for and mark it up?

        Thats the world we live in. You need to have your wits about you and ask questions when people offer extras.

        Often people wont ask because they don’t want to sound stingy or get embarrassed and figure it wont cost much extra.
        - thats what dodgy sales people prey on.

        So by all means get upset at them, but also accept it was avoidable.
        I would be devastated too, but I’d be upset I didn’t ask more questions.

        • +5 votes

          Consider if this is these guys standard MO how many vulnerable people they probably take advantage of, pensioners, learning difficulties, NESB, there's a lot of people, who unlike the OP, would have no idea what a HDMI cable should cost and having the installer recommended by the Good Guys probably feel they wont be exploited. Cant stand opportunistic scum like this.

          • +1 vote

            @mauricem: I’m with you mate, i cant stand people doing it to others, especially the vulnerable.

            But it does happen.

          • +1 vote

            @mauricem: Totally agree mauricem. I understand they have to markup the price obviously since it's business but almost 10x the retail price? That's just straight exploitation and preying on the vulnerable.

    • +20 votes

      Buyers remorse ≠ Ripped off remorse

      • -3 votes

        The OP has changed the post. Originally it read:
        "I agreed with the additional items although the staffs did not explain to me how much each individual item will cost."

        Ripped off ≠ agreeing to a service without querying the price.

  • +22 votes

    Always ask for the price before agreeing to any service.

    • +4 votes

      they didnot tell me that they will charge me extra. that is why i think these items are included in the installation.

      • +7 votes
        • You purchase a car and the dealer asks if you want tinted windows/paint protection, it's at a cost.
        • If you buy car insurance and they ask if you want a hire car option.
        • You get a haircut and they ask if you want your beard trimmed.
          Buy a Taco and they ask if you want Avo.

        Most of the time they won't tell you the price unless you ask. If you say yes, it's just added on.

        As for the price of them, that's probably the same price JB/Harvey Norman/Officeworks pay and charge for thier basic HDMIs and surges. They may be name brands, they may be no-name. On the other hand they may try to sell you thier $300 surge protector that costs them $120 (guessing on cost price though)

        • +18 votes

          I don't think those are comparable analogies. Using your first analogy it would be more like you go purchase a car, pay $300 for paint protection, then they charge you an exorbitant amount on top of that for the paint when you thought it was included.

          Sure, OP should have asked, I would have, but when you are paying $300 for the install and then another $330 on top of that for parts worth like $60, then another $100 for concealing the cables… I dunno I would be pretty annoyed, sure I would have asked how much it was going to cost before authorizing the works but $730 or whatever (its like 30% the cost of the TV) to install a TV is ridiculous and I would definitely be complaining to Good Guys to remedy the situation as that is an absurd price - honestly you would hope Good Guys are embarrassed about using this contractor after that.

          •  

            @Nebargains: The point is they are all added extras, not freebies. Unless you are told "we'll chuck it in for you" or "no extra cost", you generally pay extra for any extra services, even if you're not told a price in advance.

          • +1 vote

            @Nebargains: Someone opens a bag of chips, "you want some?". Sure. "That'll'' be $18 thanks".

        • +20 votes

          I think it is closer to saying the car is $36,000 and he pays.
          He waits until it is ready and goes to pick up the car and says, "Can I get floor mats?" And they say "$36,339."
          He thinks $339.00 so he signs whatever is put in front of him.
          They mean $36,000 + $36,339 = $72,339.

          • +4 votes

            @newbo: thanks, it is exactly my situation !

        •  

          For me this feels like contract law 101 I took all those years ago (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and may not even be relevant- I'm sure a fellow Ozb will point this out), but it goes with what dizzle is saying. It's an invitation to treat scenario. You can pick up as many items in the store, no matter what is advertised on the shelf, it's when you get to the register and the final price is negotiated and accepted do you pay. They offered the install with all accessories for 440 on the day. Once you pay you have unfortunately accepted that exchange by paying them.

          To summarise:
          Argument - they didn't explain what I was paying for or didn't tell me the price prior to installing it. Fair point and this may have happened, but again you've accepted the contract by paying it.

          The other argument I could see being made- I didn't realise that I had already paid an install fee and what they were charging me was extra. Unfortunately by paying it you have agreed to the terms of what was offered by them.

          I'm not saying they haven't done the dodgy or that it wasnt overpriced (I've worked for retail, I reckon those installers are a rort) but unfortunately paying it places you in a tough spot. My advice, try and push it but set a limit as to how far you go. Take note of the time, effort and energy you spend on it and count that as a cost in continuing to pursue this rather than enjoy your smashing new TV setup.

          •  

            @tisRmac: Your summary was longer lol

          •  

            @tisRmac: Nah get the money back and make them worry about losing the contract with the good guys. What they've done is disgusting.
            Otherwise they'll just do the same to the next person.

            •  

              @Rick Sanchez: update: i have got the refund (partially) — see the post.

              • +1 vote

                @ntienvu: Well done for pursuing it and also for updating the thread

                So much for all those unhelpful “too bad, so sad” comments

      •  

        ALWAYS assume that anything they offer comes at an additional price. It is pretty rare for any service company to throw anything in for free, they are all looking for high profit margin extras.

  • +7 votes

    Never make assumptions on what is included and how much it will cost. Either pay the price, or ask the questions beforehand.

    • +3 votes

      the thing is they didnot tell me that they will charge me extra. I thought this is included in the installation process.

      • +2 votes

        Then, the staffs suggested me to provide:

        If thats what they said, sounds like they're expecting you to provide those items, and if you do not have, you can buy from them. Nothing is free.

  • +4 votes

    I don't understand how you can agree to something without asking how much it costs?

    • +1 vote

      they didnot tell me that they will charge me extra. I thought this is included in the installation process.

      • +14 votes

        Isnt it your job to ask these things beforehand ? It was a simple question of asking are these free ? If not how much. Then make an informed decision.

      • +1 vote

        they didnot tell me that they will charge me extra.

        So when they suggested it, you assumed they do it for free ?

      •  

        If it was included in the installation process why would they ask you? That makes no sense. It would only make sense if it was something along the lines "hey I see you already have HDMI cables and surge protector, would you like us to replace your old ones with our new ones seeing they're already included?" which you know that would have specified was included but they didn't and you didn't already have those items. How were you expecting to power everything and connect the TV up to stuff without those equipment? Why would mounting company doing wall mounting services who didn't sell you the TV include all the necessary accessories to your TV? One would have assumed you or the vendor who provided you the TV would have done so. When they noticed oversight, they offered to do it for you for an obviously extra cost. Why would they do it for free? it costs them money to give you the parts. Why would it be unreasonable to expect that you planned to take care of itself? It literally them mounting the shit to the wall. That's the service, everything else is extra which you should have caught on when they charged you extra to hide the cables.

    • +7 votes

      There is a reasonable expectation of what things should cost though, and it should be made clear when the price is going to exceed this.

      Is $100 for a ~$11 cable reasonable, or is it a scam. Sounds pretty scammy to me.

      I would get a quote from some other installers and see if this 10x markup for cables is typical.

    • +2 votes

      As a consumer, you can't legally agree to pay for something without knowing the costs.

      • -3 votes

        Not in Uzbekistan

  • +18 votes

    Are you telling me you were charged $739 dollars in total to wall mount a TV? Crikey

    • +15 votes

      I did mine myself and I paid about 1/10th of that…

      • +6 votes

        Is that rope gold plated?

      •  

        I paid $100 for a good quality stud finder and bought some good quality HDMI cables from Selby to run behind the wall and a couple of wall brackets from Jaycar

        bought the wall mount from Catch and all under the price of $300 that the OP was quoted

        I hope the OP has learned his lesson and next time research on how to do it himself (with help the lift the tv of course)

        P.S there are a lot of cowboys out there who will take advantage of you that includes solar panel installers

    • +4 votes

      I bought a TV cabinet off evilbay used for $10 sat the tele on that.

    •  

      they indeed charged me $739 dollars for the installation, excluding the wall-mount kit.

      •  

        Costly life lesson I'm afraid mate.

      • +24 votes

        Did they supply a 44 gallon drum of KY while they did that to you?