Which Lane Am I Allowed in?

LDr Ginger on 13/07/2021 - 16:26
Last edited 13/07/2021 - 16:26

Lets say you are driving on this road marked in red that turns right and merges onto a bigger road, from 2 to 4 lanes.

https://i.postimg.cc/yxcHX1nB/road.png

There are no line markings on the road.

If I start in lane 1 or 2 which lanes am I allowed to turn into?

The relevant road rules don't seem to cover this exact case:

When making a turn into a multi-lane road, pay close attention to the line-markings on the road, as these will show you if you have to turn into a specific lane. If there are no line markings, you can turn into any lane.
- RACV
Full Road Rules in Vic

Who would be at fault, in the event of a collision, if a car started in lane 1 and wanted to finish in B and another car started in lane 2 and also wanted to go into lane B?
What would the reasoning be?

Poll Options

  • 67
    Lane 1 car at fault
  • 3
    Lane 2 car at fault
  • 1
    Both at fault
  • 1
    Who ever is driving the high yield merc is not at fault
Automotive

Comments

  • Nugs on 13/07/2021 - 16:41
    +12

    "If there are no line markings, you can turn into any lane."
    Dodgy as.
    What happened to "stay as right as possible when making a right hand turn"?
    Yes, I did get my license last millennium
    .

    • Dr Ginger on 13/07/2021 - 17:22
      +1

      If there is no turn line indicating how the turn is required to be made, the driver must make the turn so the driver—(a) passes as near as practicable to the right of the centre of the intersection

      Rule 33, 3(a) does say this which is similar to "stay as right as possible when making a right hand turn"

    • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2021 - 09:44

      I personally wouldn't consider this a turn though? Isn't this just going straight on a curved road?

  • Muzeeb on 13/07/2021 - 16:50
    +18

    Is that Princes Highway and Wattletree?

    From my experience there the well versed drivers in lane 1 continue into lane A only. The rest in lane 2 can pick any lane except A.

    Everyone else that doesn't do this can just hand there licence in.

    • Dr Ginger on 13/07/2021 - 17:07
      +1

      Is that Princes Highway and Wattletree?

      Yes, well spotted

  • SF3 on 13/07/2021 - 16:52
    -5

    Right lane car to stay on right side. Maybe A or B.

    Left lane car to stay on left side. Maybe C or D.

    Pay attention on the car(s) adjacent to you.

    You never know if the other car(s) are more ignorant than you!

    Better to avoid an accident than rely on (unwritten) road rules (that poor drivers lack)..

  • bobbified on 13/07/2021 - 16:53
    +26

    From lane 1, you'd go into A only.
    From lane 2, you can go into B, C or D.

    Then after that, you can change lanes based on the normal rules where you indicate and change when it's safe.

  • freefall101 on 13/07/2021 - 17:06
    +7

    Lol, who designed that piece of crap and didn't put markings/signs?

    It's not a right hand turn, yes it bends to the right but there's no turn involved.. So the rules about right turns don't apply. I'd assume 1 goes to A and 2 goes to B but that's just common sense on how to avoid any kind of accident when it's unmarked, no idea what the rules are there.

    • Dr Ginger on 13/07/2021 - 17:10

      As a way of preventing crashes I would try to go 1 > A and 2 > C just in case 1 > B

      • freefall101 on 13/07/2021 - 17:12
        +7

        Nah, 1 should never ever go B, because there's a general assumption to keep right when turning right (even though it's not a right hand turn)

        If I was in 2 I'd go for C or D, but if I was in 1 I'd go in A then change lanes.

        Or the city could paint some bloody lines on it and solve the problem for good (granted, people will ignore then anyway)

        • Dr Ginger on 13/07/2021 - 17:13
          +2

          1 should never ever go B

          Should….. but it happens

          Or the city could paint some bloody lines on it and solve the problem for good.

          Would make things a lot clearer

  • AndyC1 on 13/07/2021 - 17:13
    -1

    Did you get in an accident?

    • Dr Ginger on 13/07/2021 - 17:15

      No, but I have seen ~10 close calls over the last few weeks

      • Muzeeb on 13/07/2021 - 17:28

        If you catch the lights westbound on Wattletree at 50km/h the turn from lane 1 into lane A is pretty sharp and catches a few people out especially in the wet.

  • Drakesy on 13/07/2021 - 17:39
    -1

    If car 1 changes lanes into B then you'd be changing lanes within an intersection which itself is not allowed.

    But i do agree in that they need to better delineate with markings.

    • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 17:58

      Got the reference to the road rule that states this?

      • Drakesy on 13/07/2021 - 18:07
        -2

        Here

        Simple google suffices

        • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 19:06
          +2

          Carsguide is not legislation. I want to know where about in the actual road rules. Carsguide doesn’t even link to it. I can’t find it. I can’t even find a corresponding traffic infringement.

          Simple google suffices

          And to all the dingbats negging me, I can Google “vaccines cause autism” and get results, doesn’t make it “fact”. So, becuse you all seem to have the answer, feel free to post the link or a copy of the actual road rule that backs up what Drakesy is saying…

          • Drakesy on 13/07/2021 - 19:20

            @pegaxs: Now i'm no road rule guru but not changing lanes in an intersection should be common knowledge.

            • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 19:24

              @Drakesy: If it is common knowledge, then feel free to post the relevant legislation that says it’s “not allowed”. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I just want to read it for myself. Should be easy to find if it is considered “common knowledge”.

              • Drakesy on 13/07/2021 - 19:29

                @pegaxs: I really dont know why you're arguing the point?
                I'm not the op, just provided my take on the matter and backed it up with reasoning. Take what you will of it.
                And FWIW Carsguide did reference the correct road rule. Just takes another click ;)

                • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 19:44
                  +1

                  @Drakesy: You made the statement (not OP) that changing lanes in an intersection is “not allowed”, that’s why I asked you and not OP.

                  I was curious on “your take”, hence the reason I asked you where “your take” was backed up in actual legislation. And you backed it up with a link to Carsguide as your “reasoning”.

                  I’m not arguing the point. At no time did I say you were wrong or right, as I was just seeking clarification on where it was in the legislation, and since you made the comment, I thought you may have known.

                  Edit: Because you made an edit. I clicked on the link and it took me to the road rules for South Australia (not OP's jurisdiction) and just listed out the whole road rules for SA (Not even an up to date link)… No reference to the "Change lanes in intersection not allowed"… If we are just going to link to the whole set of road rules, here are the rules for OP's example.

              • Muzeeb on 13/07/2021 - 19:45

                @pegaxs: I understand it's just a good technique not a legislated rule.

                • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 19:50

                  @Muzeeb: Oh, I totally agree. It should be a rule if it isn't already. I hate it when dick brains do it. And I agree that it should be common sense to "not" do it, but common sense and legislation are two different things.

                  • rompastompa on 15/07/2021 - 10:17

                    @pegaxs: Interesting, I also thought it was a legislated rule.

                    Apologies to all the drivers I've cursed under my breath! Still curse the drivers that go over the solid white line just before the intersection though!

  • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 20:37
    +2

    I think Road Rule 148 (2)(Page 189) covers what is and isn't allowed in this instance… It deals with moving from one "line of traffic to another" since there are no "marked lanes". ("Line of traffic" is defined in the Road Rules Dictionary (Page 519))

    148 Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic
    (1) Not applicable as based on "marked lanes"
    (2) A driver on a road with 2 or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as the driver, and who is moving from one line of traffic to another line of traffic, must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
    (3) Not applicable as based on one lane "ending/merging"

    According to Vic Road Rule 148 (2), Car 1 cannot change lanes until they have given way to all the cars in the other "line of traffic". If Car 2 wants Lane B, Car 1's only option is to take Lane A, or give way to all cars in Car 2's line of traffic.

    Ergo, in OP's example, Car 1 would be at fault for not giving way to Car 2 who was in the other "line of traffic".

    (Out of interest, failing to give way according to Road Rule 148 (2) is a $349 fine and 3 demerit points in NSW. In Vicwegia, $273 and 2 points)

  • azonki on 14/07/2021 - 08:08
    -1

    I would say that, if you are the first car at the lights, don't dilly-daddle on the green.
    Be the fastest car off the mark and go into whatever lane you want.
    With due care, of course.
    That means using indicators to make the traffic behind you aware of your intentions (BMW, VW, Benz & Audi drivers take note).
    If not first in line, follow the road rules.

    • Dr Ginger on 14/07/2021 - 11:00

      That means using indicators to make the traffic behind you aware of your intentions

      Turning it on as I change lanes is enough, right?
      ….Right?

      • azonki on 15/07/2021 - 08:58

        I should have been clearer.
        Through the intersection, stay in your lane.
        Once you enter the target road, indicate that you intend to change lanes, check for traffic and execute move.
        By moving away from the intersection quickly, you should have no traffic behind you, as we Aussies are very slow off the mark.
        But always check.
        If you cannot move over safely - without blocking or stopping other road users - drive to the next intersection and start over.
        Don't be the idiot that believes user indicators allows them to inconvenience other drivers.

        • Dr Ginger on 15/07/2021 - 10:08

          I guess the sarcasm didn't come through, I was taking the piss about when people indicate after they have started moving.

          as we Aussies are very slow off the mark

          Yeah we are. Every time I sit in traffic I think about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzzSao6ypE

  • Ghost47 on 14/07/2021 - 10:51
    +1

    Common sense tells me that if I’m in the right lane and there’s a car in the left lane I continue into the rightmost lane unless the car to my left is obviously moving into the leftmost lane and there is no car behind me in the left lane or in my blind spot, then I might move over one or two lanes.

  • OzHunterNSW on 14/07/2021 - 15:05

    NO…. don't listen to them…. if you turn from lane one, you stay in lane one.
    Think logically for a moment, if all cars started to switch into whatever lane that chose, then all chaos would ensue.

    It is only after you have completed your turn, and if clear, can you change lanes.

    Maybe a refresher driving course might be of benefit to you

    • Dr Ginger on 14/07/2021 - 16:21

      NO…. don't listen to them…. if you turn from lane one, you stay in lane one.

      Them? RACV? I posted that as an example of the potentially relevant road rules along with the scenario. This is not my view of what I am allowed to do on that road.

      Maybe a refresher driving course might be of benefit to you

      What did I do that makes you believe this would be the case? I was looking for opinions from people after seeing a number of close calls, talking to friends and not interpreting a clear cut reference to this in the text of the rules. However I believe that @pegaxs has nailed the reference to the rules.

      Perhaps I shouldn't have used "I" in the title.

  • GG57 on 14/07/2021 - 16:17
    +1

    Isn't there a golden rule take all available actions to avoid an accident if at all possible.

  • HeWhoKnows on 14/07/2021 - 19:13

    Generally speaking right hand lane is for turning right and left hand lane for turning left.
    Generally speaking with multiple lanes turning right, the right hand lane must turn into the inside (closest) lane (right hand lane)
    The left hand lane has the choice of the other 3 lanes

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