How did you invest in cryptocurrency?
- How did you learn?
- How what strategies do you use to invest?
- What coins do you invest in?
How Did You Invest in Cryptocurrency?
deme on 03/10/2021 - 18:46
Comments
Buy high, sell low
$GME?
To da moon!
Purchased Bitcoin at 10K to buy some stuff (supplier only took BITCOIN as payment) that never eventuated.
1 month later, was watching it one night and it was going up by $5 every time i refreshed the page ie: every 10 seconds. Poured all the cash i could get into it at that point.
After Elon entered and it blew up to 80K, i panicked and sold it all bar a small portion, absolute godsend he was.
Never going back to Digital again. I just put all the cash into Combank MyPocket and it's gone up by 10% in a 2 months, that's enough for me.
I pretty much did the same.
The longer you have been buying crypto the more you realise it's a pyramid. Won't be long before it becomes illegal.
I've made plenty of money from it but have heard of a lot of people losing money.
The general idea is for someone to make money, someone else has to lose money.
With that logic you could say the same for the stock market.
Bingo.
And I'm happy with kerbing my bitcoin and watching it grow.
Bitcoin can now even be bought on stock exchange America
@FredAstair: The BITO is a futures contract ETF. It has no underlying Bitcoin backing it and is an inferior product but it's a start.
@rektrading: I agree.
It's a start.I love how now El Salvador is embrasing it too.
Australia… They'll get there eventually. Slow as usual.
My suggestion: DYOR and don’t get caught in FOMO especially on r/cryptocurrency. It’s all shills and market manipulators. Also buy DOGE.
Haha
Find exchange.
Buy 1k.
Wait one year. For capital gains tax.
Sell.
If it's over 8 percent you have made money.
^
Missing step 3 which was praying to any and every god, and Elon musk that your coin does not dump and flatline.Bitcoin won't drop to zero
Yeah but waiting for it to recover back to 84k+ Has aged me
Ironically I'm making between 6 and 12% APY at the moment.
How did you learn?
Watched some videos and then registered an account on Coinspot.How/what strategies do you use to invest?
I just HODL all day long. I bought in at start of this year. And then some more when it dipped a few months back.What coins do you invest in?
Only Bitcoin. I'm not gonna lie. I'm way late to the party but figured I just put in a few $k and see how it goes.Re bitcoin and being too late for the party.
You might not be too late.. It's last peak trumped their last huge peak.I'm still holding a tiny bit from back in the day. Think around 2015.
Only held them as my net position is 0 so if i ever sell it will be pure profit.
Mined a couple of thousand bitcoins back when it was simple to mine at home on any PC. Sold them for a few dollars each when I was in a tight spot and needed some cash. Cry myself to sleep every night.
It's not investing, it's gambling. I wouldn't put any real money in it.
Given big invesent firms are betting on bitcoin it's here to stay
Right up there with unregulated derivatives in the mortgage market?
Big investment firms are big enough to manipulate crypto to their own advantage and get out before it comes tumbling down. Us poor sods have no chance of that.
F
I have a friend who once swapped 67 BTC for a snow board early on.
I'm not allowed to raise that subject with him ever again……
I remind myself that I would have sold them eventually anyway, it was a pure novelty and no way I would have held onto them until they were worth what they are today. Granted, could have bought a nice house if I just held onto a handful of them
I just hope it was a nice snowboard, lol
I learnt its easy to add money into Binance, and impossible to remove it!
How is it difficult? If you withdraw from Binance it’s in my bank within seconds!
-How did you learn?
I already knew how to trade from the stock market. I made the mistake of trying to find out what is blockchain and how was Bitcoin created etc, which lead me down a path of technical side. Which you don't need to know…YouTube, there is so much content on there. But just keep in mind a lot of them shill coins or try and pump their own coins.
I've recently been recommending this channel for newbies:
Whiteboard Crypto, Mostly covers tokenomics via infographics. It's easy to digest and you can get the jist of things in under 10mins-How what strategies do you use to invest?
I mostly focus on Tokenomics, I read the white paper. I also try and use the platform, sometimes its just easier to use it to understand what it does.
I do some TA, but I mostly just use the charts to drop Fibs for setting buy alerts and creating exit plans.
Follow the news, don't get drunk on TA. It cant predict events like C19 and Elon Musk tweetsWhat coins do you invest in?
Mostly within top 30, but seriously DYOR. Its going to make a big difference when your staring at 40% corrections, something you believe in VS something people told you to buyI bought 10k dyor coins
Hodl
Well done! Now blindly follow diamond hands!! Never take profit!
When your grandma asks you about Bitcoin it means it's time to sell.
Take a look at the collective shift site and go through their knowledge resources to get yourself up to a base level understanding of crypto - https://collectiveshift.com.au/knowledge-centre/
This will help you be able to tell a shitcoin from a coin that belongs to a protocol with real world uses.
Dollar cost average into it. Very few people can time the markets and if you are asking ozbargains for crypto advice then you are definitely not gonna make it if that’s your strategy.
Finally, just give it time. It helps to understand the technology and how it’s going to revolutionise the world. The amount of negative press it gets sometimes shows in prices, don’t worry about it, if you only invested in good decentralised protocols you have nothing to fear. If you are getting into crypto today, you are not late. You are earlier that 95% of the world - no need to chase 1000% returns on high risk shit coins.
I will now leave the floor open for the abuse and vitriol I got the last time I offered crypto advice on ozbargains.
It helps to understand the technology and how it’s going to revolutionise the world.
Can you TL;DR how you think it will?
This was the same premise when bitcoin was first created.
Can we stop saying “invest” in crypto. You don’t invest in crypto. You speculate that it’s value will go up if more people buy it and it becomes scarcer. Most gold purchases aren’t called investments either. You purchase and hold Gold as a store of wealth and to traditionally offset inflation risks. You purchase crypto because you hope some shmuck will pay more than you did for it. Crypto is the closest thing to a pyramid scheme I’ve seen. You are just hoping the next person pays more than you did so the “value” (it’s not value, it’s price) goes up. There is no intrinsic value because it’s highly volatile. Crypto is pretty useless as a currency hedge or for anything really. It wastes tremendous amounts of energy to transact and produce and it doesn’t pay that energy back through some other form of productivity. It’s an extremely non-productive asset class and contributes to climate change and hurts humanity. In my mind then it has a negative value. Less than 0. There is no way to calculate an intrinsic or book value because there is none.
Fiat currencies are getting diluted. Nothing new there and crypto doesn’t do anything to change that because crypto in it’s purely electronic form is useless for most transactions. You need to convert crypto to and from a fiat currency for most trade purposes so you just get those same fiat currency risks with it. It doesn’t remove the risks of fiat currency.
NFTs are also nonsense. If I buy a physical piece of art then it’s difficult to copy. A digital asset is purely bits (zeros and ones) stored on a storage medium. I can copy those bits for an identical 1:1 copy. Digital assets are easy to copy. Encryption mechanisms can be broken. Just because you have a separate token that says you are the owner doesn’t mean your copy is different from my exact copy therefore your token doesn’t mean anything. You can call yourself the owner but what does that mean if I have an exact copy of the asset. I can even copy your NFT. We are both owners. I can generate another token based of the hash of my identical copy of the asset as well. I can also give a copy of the original bits to somebody else without your input so your NFT doesn’t stop copying. All the holder of an NFT can say is they generated a token first for their copy of the data. Who cares…. Nonsense.
deflation risks
Yeah, I reckon it's still better than nothing, plus it just requires consensus.
The only reason why the venezuelan bolivar is worthless is because people have come to a consensus that it is worthless. If you are trading time value and paying people in litecoin in venezuela, you can get more fairly priced trades.
So… What do we invest in to protect ourselves from a loss of faith in fiat currencies?
There isn't anything tangible. I've been collecting baseball cards but the market is not as big as that in crypto.
Have you found that silver bullet?
There isn't anything tangible
You almost got it.
Tangible Assets
If you're purely looking at bitcoin then yes - you are buying in the hope that someone will buy it off you for more - this is true. but you need to ask yourslef why someone would buy it off you for more. Bitcoin is not a different kind of money, t's a different kind of wealth system. it may have been made with the idea to replace the current system but it is massively experimental. Even Satoshi Nakomoto stated that it will either be dead in 10 years or gain mass adoption. the whole point of this system is to have aform of wealth storage that is outside the influence of poor government policy. That is where the hedge against inflation comes from. to buy coffee with bitcoin is not a good use of the technology but to take your fiat and store it in bitcoin so that it doesn't get inflated away by governments who would prefer to print money than to address politically fragile issues is a great use for this technology.
thats bitcoin - Smart contracts is where the revolution really is…If you forget about ethereum as a "cryptocurrency" and start looking at it as a technology then you will realise that ethereum is a worldwide decentralised computer which can execute code 24/7 without any need for trusted agencies. This means the current internet will evolve beyond the current technocratic structure of Google/Facebook/Amazon. Using Ethereum and other layer 1 blockchains you can rebuild the internet in the following way
- you don't need to hand over any of your data in exchange for services
- creators release their products using NFT's (yes, NFT's are just jpegs now but music, video and other products will be created as NFT's in the near future) and earn royalties and revenue directly instead of youtube taking 30%,
- Finance will be done using defi. you can access financial services anywhere in the world, 24/7 and also earn yields from staking (supporting the integrity of the blockchain) or lending and borrow against your existing crypto holdings without losing your exposure to their price increases. These rates operate outside of the federal reserve system so you can often get better rates.
- Identity, holding an NFT in a wallet will give you access to products and services. this is the real power of NFT and why there is so much hype around it. Instead of siging up to netflix with your email and having data tied back to your identity Netflix could allow you to mint an NFT. when you go to login instead of asking for a username and password it simply looks in your web3 wallet and see's your netflix NFT in there and allows you access. This way if Netflix ever gets hacked, your email address and password are never exposed because they simply wouldn't store it.
There's going to be a lot of people who don't recognise this as a technology and just see it as "fanciful internet money". Thats ok… free search engines would have been confusing as an investment back in 1995 but to those who recognised the power behind it they made a lot of money. they might have bought penny stocks in a company called google with the hope that some poor sucker would be willing to pay more than what they paid for it. To own cryptocurrency is to own a peice of the future of the internet. That is an internet that works for everyone and not just the few monopolies that have risen and now choke out any competition that threatens their hegemony.
The whole power consumption thing has been debunked countless times so i'm not going to go into that. generally people who hold that belief are not interested in hearing anything contrary to the idea.
This is all part of Web 3.0…
But nobody is talking about technologies, we are talking about investing in cryptocurrency.
thats like saying "but nobody's talking about companies, we are talking about investing in stocks". if you want to go and throw your money at something without knowing what it does or how it works then you are not investing… you are gambling.
Successful investors go through the financials and business models of the companies they invest in with a fine tooth comb to work out where that company generates value to it's consumers and ultimately brings profit. Crypto is no different.
@mitchalbrown: No, thats not like saying that at all.
You are confusing blockchain technology with coins.
@samfisher5986: No, you are failing to recognise the relationship cryptocurrency has to the blockchain. decentralised blockchains need to incentivise people to run nodes or validators to operate and maintain the blockchain. when a new block is mined or written to the chain, rewards are given to the people who perform this work. These rewards are in the form of the native crypto currncy of that blockchain (bitcoin for the bitcoin network, eth for ethereum etc).
In turn people who want transactions processed on that protocol or blockchain must pay a fee in the native token. this fee will make up part of the aformention block reward. these 2 sides of the transaction creates a supply and demand factor to the network.
you can have a blockchain without a cryptocurrency - sure. but it is unlikely you could run a decentralised blockchain without a cryptocurrency as there would be no incentive for people to maintain and process transactions on that blockchain.
you could run a centralised blockchain, but then this would require you to have total trust in the group of people or company running that blockchain. this is the difference between Binance's BNB blockchain and etherem's blockchain… BNB is a direct clone of Ethereum but iscompletely controlled by binance therefore they can set the fee's super low on the network because they don't need to pay individual miners.
To manipulate this system, you only need to convince Binance to make the change as they control all the nodes.
To manipulate a decentralised blockchain like Ethereum, you need to convince at least half the network which is made up of millions of individuals. very hard.anyway… i think i rambled… i spose if you don't get that bit above yet, then you haven't fully grasped the fundamentals of decentralised blockchain and crypto currency and you should probably hold off on giving advice about it.
@mitchalbrown: You seem to misunderstand the entire point here.
Why do people buy cryptocurrency and hold it? To "invest" and make money out of someone elses loses.
Once you remove "investing" you all of a sudden have a bunch of shitcoins that are inferior to the current banking system.
As I said, blockchain technology is great and can be used for a variety of things, but the point here is that "investing" in cryptocurrency is investing in a dodgy scheme.
Even if you don't believe it, most people don't even know how cryptocurrency works and only want to get rich quick.
FYI to everyone, Blockchain does not mean you make a shitcoin and get everyone to invest in your coin "technology"
Also your comments about the safety of decentralised currency are only valid as long as that currency is popular worldwide with miners, and even then can easily be manipulated by the huge powerhouse miners like China. A potential World War 3 could mean China takes control of every miner in their country and could potentially take over many coins depending on their current popularity with miners. I'm not saying trying to suggest its unsafe but there's no way you can sell that as a benefit.
@samfisher5986: With every reply you post you reveal more about how little you know and how little actual experience you have had in this space.
As I said, blockchain technology is great and can be used for a variety of things, but the point here is that "investing" in cryptocurrency is investing in a dodgy scheme.
It's clear you understand how a blockchain works and i'll give you that.
Why do people buy cryptocurrency and hold it? To "invest" and make money out of someone elses loses.
is this the same principle with trading shares on the stock market? What about investment properties? Governement bonds?
Once you remove "investing" you all of a sudden have a bunch of shitcoins that are inferior to the current banking system.
You have noticed that there are shitcoins - yep, no one disputes that… but you are completely throwing out the baby with the bath water because you can't see beyond these. You've made up your mind at some point that this is all a scam while the industry evolved and built utility on top of this concept.
Even if you don't believe it, most people don't even know how cryptocurrency works and only want to get rich quick.
Most people couldn't tell you how the internet works… it's only the fact that a bunch of clever people have come along and skinned it with easy to use UI so that your grandma can use facebook… does that make the internet worthless? some people actually had this view back in the 80's/90's.
FYI to everyone, Blockchain does not mean you make a shitcoin and get everyone to invest in your coin "technology"
This is a valuable public service anouncement. not every blockchain should be invested in… this is why you do your own research. Some blockchains open up lending and borrowing to the unbanked. some allow the swapping of crypto's and by owning and staking you earn rewards on the fee's generated by the network. Some allow you to access certain services or communities.
If the only thing the crypto offers you is "to the moon sick gainz" with nothing else then yes… you have found a ponzi scheme - they exist in real life too.If you want to know why people see this as a superior system to the current banking system, get a full understanding of what the principle of decentralisation means in a system like this. Why would you need it decentralised? what benefits does it bring? who wins in a decentralised system.
Go and install metamask on your browser ansd start playing around with Web3 sites. That is the future of the internet.
Also your comments about the safety of decentralised currency are only valid as long as that currency is popular worldwide with miners, and even then can easily be manipulated by the huge powerhouse miners like China. A potential World War 3 could mean China takes control of every miner in their country and could potentially take over many coins depending on their current popularity with miners. I'm not saying trying to suggest its unsafe but there's no way you can sell that as a benefit.
Mining was banned in china and in fact has been banned for years. only recently all the BTC mines were shutdown forcebly by the government. Bitcoin has not stopped. bitcoin is worth more now than when they started shutting down mining operations. This is decentralisation in practice.
This comment is the cry call of the no coiner… it show's a lack of understanading of mining pools.I hope this discussion doesn't calcify your misconceptions into firmly held truths. I had all of these concerns myself and had spent many hours breaking them down and scrutinizing them to come to where I am today. I really just want everyone to see the opportunity. It's so early and we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg of what blockchain/crypto is capable of and how it will be used. When companies like Visa and EY start developing their platforms on ethereum and huge institutions are buying up bitcoin at every chance you gotta start asking yourself the question… have i missed something.
@mitchalbrown: Binance don't control all the validator nodes for BSC. There are 21 validators and each validator needs to stake a huge amount of BNB to be a validator. If you accumulated enough BNB you could be a validator. Look at the validator list and you'll see Ankr, Infstones, and other entities that run validators independent of Binance. Some of them you can stake your own BNB with these validators and earn a yield (which is paid by the transaction fees that validators earn).
It's more centralised than Ethereum, as in 21 validators vs how ever many miners Eth has, but the upside is lower tx fees and considerably faster tx rates. Also validators <> nodes, anyone can run a bsc node.
To manipulate BSC would jeopardise the bnb that each of these validators have at stake (lowest amount to be a validator now would be $279 million of BNB), which would put their holdings and earnings at risk i.e. what would be their incentive to do so?
The majority of all blockchains have a vast number of nodes running on AWS, which puts the whole system at some sort of risk anyway due to 'centralisation'.@c0dingmachine: Thanks for the clarification. Even I’m still learning. I think my point around decentralisation still stands though. The point that by design bnb is limited to 21 validators means that you only have to convince 21 entities to take actions that are not in the best interest of the network. It also means - as we saw with solana recently - that the network can suffer outages.
I take your point of cloud hosts as well but as we are still so early and decentralised computer infrastructure is also on the way such as IPFS for file storage etc.
this will be the next phase of decentralisation.
OAuth already has token exchange for authentication and is widely used. Tokens are nothing new and are used in loads of authorisation and authentication mechanisms preventing the need to exchange personal information. Another is simple OTP.
There is no need for consumers to hand over personal information to use many services already if it is not required by law. Apple can create false email addresses on behalf of users that are unique to different services and then route emails to the true email holder. There is more work to be done in this space but I don’t think crypto currencies will really solve this problem. Universal 2 Factor shows good promise and better things will come in the security space. Not sure how NFTs do something better than what is already available. As I said a digital copy of bits is an exact copy no matter how you spin it. The world has proven cryptographic standards that do not need to rely on cryptocurrency to work. These standards get updated and improved all the time. NFTs are a joke. A joke on whoever is buying them.
We already have cryptographic signing and certificates to ensure authentication so NFTs don’t seem to be bringing anything new there.
I’m not sure why anyone “needs” defi. I work in 24/7 international finance and there’s many international standards for financial information exchange already in place and I’ve never heard of defi. The problem with FinTech in general is that the finance industry is slow to move to new technologies because if it works and is reliable then this trumps any small improvements afforded by new technologies. FinTech so far hasn’t seemed to address this. Plus it’s a massive industry and it’s very expensive to re-platform and move multiple companies etc. The drive to move needs to come from the boards of large financial institutions who are invested in keeping the status quo. Change is constant but is very expensive.
Mining crypto and processing transactions on BTC and Ether is computationally expensive and therefore power hungry so is naturally bad for the environment. You could argue that people can use renewable energy to maintain a ledger system but this is much more manageable and auditable if the ledger system is centralised on an existing cloud provider or in a data centre.
Visa processes 3m transactions a second in a single country. A new technology would need to be a magnitude better, say 300 million transactions a second if it were to replace simple ledger based transactions. I suspect it would need to be computationally less expensive to have any real world benefit. Plus traditional ledger based systems have been used for over 3000 years so why change what works? Is crypto easier to understand than a traditional ledger?
Ledger based systems can be made anonymous without crypto. Crypto just uses a hash instead of personal details. This is already possible with existing ledger based systems without needing to retool all of the software and tools that sit around traditional ledgers used by banks around the world.
So what are you investing in? Some pyramid scheme as you seem to agree with me on.
These comments will contrast significantly with those crypto believers but I talk of operating in the real finance world and the crypto crew seem to think they operate in the real finance world but to me and many people it’s just a secondary play pit with a lot of people proclaiming to have this better system but without any clear real world benefits.
How can a company who is required to keep its transactions secure and auditable by a government regulator benefit from a centralised blockchain over the ledger system they already have? The whole crypto thing just crashes into real world realities of doing business.
Financial conpanies exist to make money and do business. The proven way to do this is under the umbrella of government regulation. Trying to operate in some shady secondary market is not usually the way finance companies want to operate. Therefore I think crypto itself is the 90’s dot com boom. It’s the ridiculous pricing or BTC that is the pets.com bubble. The technology doesn’t solve any real world problems. Not one!
Crypto’s aim is to solve the problems of fiat currency but the problems of fiat currency are overstated by believers because the world functions fine on fiat currencies. Plus the problems of fiat currencies can be solved without transitioning to another monetary system. The gold standard was removed and a new standard can be introduced or the rules changed without the need for a distributed ledger system or a new crypto currency. It doesn’t solve any problem with fiat because it suggests replacing fiat is the only solution - wrong! We don’t need a distributed ledger system to improve fiat currencies.
We may need world banks to make international agreements or governments to adopt different policies but not an entirely new system that isn’t any better than what already exists.
Only some tiny impoverished nation has tried to adopt crypto and so far its a failure. They will revert to the US dollar and would be better served by creating their own fiat currency in the long term.
Crypto is not even anonymous. Crime syndicates have also found that out the hard way. Cash is anonymous and has been for centuries, not crypto. Physical gold is also anonymous. Also why do you need anonymity? You only need to be anonymous if you want to break government regulation rules. If you want to break government regulation it’s usually to avoid paying taxes. If you want to avoid paying taxes then what sort of citizen are you?
So I ask the serious question why do you need your cash financial transactions over $10,000 to be anonymous. Also if you really want that this then why don’t you write to your local member of parliament and form some evidence why it’s a bad idea. The government’s argument is that it is to prevent tax avoidance and to continue to provide government services. Do you not want that? Do you think the cash economy should be allowed to flourish and less tax revenue be raised for social services, education, healthcare, defence etc? Do you think it’s fair that those without access to the cash economy pay more tax?
You are hypothesising that the BTC price will stabilise. Evidence suggests otherwise.
I'll address these points to OP - you and I both have already madeup our minds on where we stand. @deme is still on the fence and looking for points of view from both sides.
OAuth already has token exchange for authentication and is widely used. Tokens are nothing new and are used in loads of authorisation and authentication mechanisms preventing the need to exchange personal information. Another is simple OTP. There is no need for consumers to hand over personal information to use many services already if it is not required by law. Apple can create false email addresses on behalf of users that are unique to different services and then route emails to the true email holder. There is more work to be done in this space but I don’t think crypto currencies will really solve this problem. Universal 2 Factor shows good promise and better things will come in the security space
Snooksy is talking about a small part of the process of authentication aka establishing secure communication between 2 authenticated parties. this is totally different to the definition of an nft token and it's mechanisms of ownership. OAuth still requires a user account in which to authenticate which would be tied to you and can be used to build an online profile and presence of you. they can, at the very least sell you as a product to advertises and at worst identify you to a hostile government regime. If you think you can use any service you want without having to hand over personal data then go and sign up to any service on the internet and try not give an email address… and i don't mean having to establish a new burner email address everytime you want something.
Not sure how NFTs do something better than what is already available
So… Snooksy's argument is "i don't know how what your talking about works and i've never tried it but it can't be better than what we got"?
As I said a digital copy of bits is an exact copy no matter how you spin it.
This again show's that Snooksy has not looked beyond the concept of NFT's used for digital art. It is a difficult concept to get unless you have ventured into the space and played around so I understand. Snooksy also suggested that they have not used Web3.0 in any way yet so that also indicates their level of understanding and experience in the crypto space in general. you should consider their advice and point of view with this in mind. would you take driving advice from someone who's never driven a car?
I’m not sure why anyone “needs” defi. I work in 24/7 international finance and there’s many international standards for financial information exchange already in place and I’ve never heard of defi. The problem with FinTech in general is that the finance industry is slow to move to new technologies because if it works and is reliable then this trumps any small improvements afforded by new technologies. FinTech so far hasn’t seemed to address this. Plus it’s a massive industry and it’s very expensive to re-platform and move multiple companies etc. The drive to move needs to come from the boards of large financial institutions who are invested in keeping the status quo. Change is constant but is very expensive.
there is so much to unpack here… Snooksy is absolutely right! The finance industry is slow to move and slow to inovate. when you control all the choke points of the financial system and charge fee's at each of these choke points then why would you want to change any of that? Yes, a bank can secure it's ledger and charge fee's to use that ledger but the bank and the bank alone profits from that. Decentralised ledger's turn this on it's head, they offer anyone, regardless of where they were born, how much money you have in the bank or how much money was in mum and dad's bank account when you were born to earn a share of those fee's for processing the transactions of securing the network. In fact, the only way in which the banking system can compete with defi is by having the government place guarantees on money kept in the bank.
Change is coming in the form of Blockchain and crypto - banks will adopt this in one form or another but it will first prove itself outside of the banking system before the evidence of it's superiority is overwhelming and they will no longer be able to justify not using it. This is why smart guys like Paul Tudor Jones and Ray Dalio are investing into it. These guys are value traders, they don't wildly speculate for a quick buck. On top of that, the institutions like JP Morgan and Goldman sachs are stacking sats (thats denominations of bitcoins) like crazy.Mining crypto and processing transactions on BTC and Ether is computationally expensive and therefore power hungry so is naturally bad for the environment. You could argue that people can use renewable energy to maintain a ledger system but this is much more manageable and auditable if the ledger system is centralised on an existing cloud provider or in a data centre.
Proof of stake changes this and reduces the power consumption required to run the network by 98%, it's coming mid 2022. To maintain the profitablility of BTC mining the cheapest form of energy must be saught. This is actually accelerating the adoption of renewables as it increases the bottom line.
The centralised ledger is much more manageble and auditable to who? the bank? Can i get into that and see the process of my transaction that is taking 3 days to work it's way through their antiquated system? Coz i can with crypto. Can i get a glimpse of that ledger to see the volume of money and where it's going so i can better forcast my financial strategy? Oh no? i can't… but wait… your bank can! and they aren't going to use that information to make trades unfairly are they? What about if the banks start to get in trouble? they will always give me fair access to their service to withdraw my money right? not like in lebanon where the banks restricted access to people's savings while the corrupt government and other high value clients were allowed unrestricted access to syphon out their funds before the currency collapsed or restricted the rate in which they could withdraw their money from a now untrusted institution.
What about the Gamestop saga where as soon as the hedge funds began to lose? they just contacted Robin hood and convinced RobinHood that it would be better for them if retail were no longer able to buy Gamestop to relieve their mounting losses - I doubt the average retail investor would have been able to call in the same favour had the shoe been on the other foot.Visa processes 3m transactions a second in a single country. A new technology would need to be a magnitude better, say 300 million transactions a second if it were to replace simple ledger based transactions. I suspect it would need to be computationally less expensive to have any real world benefit. Plus traditional ledger based systems have been used for over 3000 years so why change what works? Is crypto easier to understand than a traditional ledger?
Ethereum 2.0 is expected to scale out to 8,640,000,000 transactions per day. This is 100,000 transations per second.
If visa processes 3m transactions a second in a single country that would give them 180m transaction per hour (3m x 60 seconds) whitch would equate to 4.32 billion transactions per day. this seems well above the average 100m transactions processed a day as quoted by visa and if calculated over a year (4.32 billion x 365) equals 1,576,800,000,000 (trillion) transactions which would put it at odds with the figure of 188 billion transactions per year, again, as quoted by visa. Happy to check Snooksy's sources though to see where i have made a mistake here, I'm not in international finance somy math might not be up to scratch.
Ledger based systems can be made anonymous without crypto. Crypto just uses a hash instead of personal details. This is already possible with existing ledger based systems without needing to retool all of the software and tools that sit around traditional ledgers used by banks around the world.
Snooky is talking about how data is kept in databases within institutions. Not how that data is used. Yes - facebook hashes details… your password. thats it. All your other information they use to help advertisers sell you things or direct you towards your own confirmation bias' to keep you within the app longer while eroding society for their own profit.
I suspect it would need to be computationally less expensive to have any real world benefit. Plus traditional ledger based systems have been used for over 3000 years so why change what works? Is crypto easier to understand than a traditional ledger?
Blockchain does not change how a ledger works. it still records transactions. the difference is that it does it in a trustless and automated way. Trustless means that no trust is required between the 2 parties making the transaction. What is going to happen is all in open source code which has been picked apart by numerous developers. The code is run on a network of computers all working together to form consensus - a consensus which can not be arbitrarily changed or manipulated without the control of more than 51% of the network. blockchain is the medium and the rails in which the ledger is kept on. 3000 years ago you would have had a guy with an abucus writing transactions down, even using double entry book keeping maybe… then the computer age came along and those ledgers were ripped out from under the scribe and entrusted to computers with complex databases but they were still double entry… Now we will start to hand over the ledger to the decentralised computer network and replace the database with a blockchain.
So what are you investing in? Some pyramid scheme as you seem to agree with me on.
I don't remember agreeing with Snooky on this. I may have conseded the fact that a scam called a pyramid scheme which has existed in traditional finance for years can also be implemented within the crypto ecosystem but i believe the point was just that. scams exist everywhere and that doesn't invalidate the tradition finance system just like it doesn't invalidate the crypto ecosystem… it just means you have to be diligent and understand what you are investing in and if it seems fishy then don't buy it. This is where DYOR comes in.
These comments will contrast significantly with those crypto believers but I talk of operating in the real finance world and the crypto crew seem to think they operate in the real finance world but to me and many people it’s just a secondary play pit with a lot of people proclaiming to have this better system but without any clear real world benefits.
This is opinion. I won't argue with it because everyone has a right to one.
How can a company who is required to keep its transactions secure and auditable by a government regulator benefit from a centralised blockchain over the ledger system they already have? The whole crypto thing just crashes into real world realities of doing business.
Simple, though i might make the point here that a centralised and decentralised blockchain are to entirely different things so i will answer both cases the best i can…
* Records on a decentralised blockchain are immutable and their authenticity secured by the network. once you have written data to the blockchain, it can not be changed. Auditors can be confident that the recorded information is without manipulation at the ledger level.
* In contrast, a centralised blockchain can be manipulated as you just need to control more than 51% of the nodes/validators on the network to reach consensus on your "preferred" version of the block or blockchain. This removes the "Trustless" element which decntralised blockchains have as you must trust the central authority who has control of the nodes. Auditors are unable to verify retroactive changes have not taken place.Financial conpanies exist to make money and do business. The proven way to do this is under the umbrella of government regulation. Trying to operate in some shady secondary market is not usually the way finance companies want to operate.
as in a free market? Free market capitalism doesn't want to operate within a free market? using platforms that are accessible to anyone with a computer or smart phone? No… probably not.. they wouldn't want to operate in a shady free market where they have no monopoly on the systems of wealth. Why would they? Go and take a look at a economics theory called the Cantellon effect whereby those closest to the distribution of currency are the ones who benifit the most while those further away end up being worse off. Crypto looks to break this. it's an open and fair system with no gate keepers and no one treated any differently to anyone else regardless of who they are or who they work for.
Crypto’s aim is to solve the problems of fiat currency but the problems of fiat currency are overstated by believers because the world functions fine on fiat currencies. Plus the problems of fiat currencies can be solved without transitioning to another monetary system.
Crypto is about the free and equal access to the monetary system as opposed to just changing the currency we pay for our milk and bread with. There's nothing wrong with the dollar as a medium of exchange… it's got as much value as pretty shells. It's the centrally controlled system behind it which arbitrarily dictates it's value based on political ambitions. They would print money into oblivion if it meant that their mates at the hedge funds would never go broke… even if it did make assets unaffordable and accelerated wealth concentration. Again, see the Cantellon effect.
The gold standard was removed and a new standard can be introduced or the rules changed without the need for a distributed ledger system or a new crypto currency.
This was done so that America could have an ever increasing debt ceiling. It meant that the dollar could be arbitrarily debased because they simply removed the yardstick by which it's value was derived or backed. Since then the USD has lost neraly 85% of it's purchasing power. A point to make on the removal of the gold standar is that it was political move made by richard nixon to get a failing financial system out of trouble and was meant to be temporary. It was never re-instated.
It doesn’t solve any problem with fiat because it suggests replacing fiat is the only solution - wrong! We don’t need a distributed ledger system to improve fiat currencies.
I don't actually see the USD going anywhere… it's still an effective form of exchange. What i do see is people being able to trade in and out of USD or AUD and into crypto to earn better returns on savings accounts on exchanges but also to remove your wealth from the system which aims to debase it until such time as you need to go back into USD.
Only some tiny impoverished nation has tried to adopt crypto and so far its a failure. They will revert to the US dollar and would be better served by creating their own fiat currency in the long term.
El Salvadore still uses the USD… they just store their wealth in bitcoin now until they need to go back into USD. As volitility settles this will be what wealthy people will do and this is what gives bitcoin it's value. 85% of El Salvadoreans have created a digital wallet and theyare seeing very positive metrics on it.
Crypto is not even anonymous. Crime syndicates have also found that out the hard way. Cash is anonymous and has been for centuries, not crypto. Physical gold is also anonymous. Also why do you need anonymity? You only need to be anonymous if you want to break government regulation rules. If you want to break government regulation it’s usually to avoid paying taxes. If you want to avoid paying taxes then what sort of citizen are you?
Snooky is right here - Crypto (well most) is not anonymous. It can be traced through the transactions on the blockchain to the centralisaed exchange which the fiat currency was used to buy it came from. In fact, Cryptocurrency is the most transparent form of currency around - this is spruiked as one of it's merits.
The only people breaking tax laws and regulations are the global elite - the people who run and control these banks as well as the polititions who facilitate this by leaving tax loopholes open or even engaging in insider trading and tax avoidance themselves. Panama papers and more recently - the Pandora papers are just a drop in the ocean of what goes on through the use of shell companies and tax havens… I don't think Crypto is the big bad tax avoiding engine you should be looking at - everything is accessable and auditable on a public decentralised blockchain.
So I ask the serious question why do you need your cash financial transactions over $10,000 to be anonymous. Also if you really want that this then why don’t you write to your local member of parliament and form some evidence why it’s a bad idea. The government’s argument is that it is to prevent tax avoidance and to continue to provide government services. Do you not want that? Do you think the cash economy should be allowed to flourish and less tax revenue be raised for social services, education, healthcare, defence etc? Do you think it’s fair that those without access to the cash economy pay more tax?
I refer to my previous statement. To Snooksy's misconception that i was talking about withdrawing my $10,000 cash anonymously… I said nothing of the sort. Thats the crazy thing! I can go into my bank that i have been banking with for years, who can see where my money is coming from and ask for $10,000 of it… I then have to tell them why i want it, what am i going to spend it on and then be told to come back tomorrow while they make sure i'm a good boy and i can be trusted with it. it's assumed i'm guilty until proven innocent.
You are hypothesising that the BTC price will stabilise. Evidence suggests otherwise.
Time will tell… one thing that is not improving is the buying power of the dollar.
There is no intrinsic value because it’s highly volatile.
Intrinsic value and highly volatile.
$FB
$FB down 47% since September
You love to see it.
https://twitter.com/mr_skilling/status/1499494573483175942?s…$NFLX
I don't like to pile on but considering the way he's treated novice investors Cramer is fair game. On a different note there are four classic mistakes investors made on $NFLX I will cover on Making Money (next best thing to making friends) today at 2PM
https://twitter.com/cvpayne/status/1516698287281258498?s=20&…💩coins have so much intrinsic value getting rekt.
I have been a rich man and I have been a poor man since I invested in feb 2021.
I’m on my way to being a rich man again after I discovered Hex and pulsechain in July.
Invest in Hex and Pulsechain.
Hex.com and pulsechain.com
I’m all in on Hex and Pulsechain.Find us Hexicans on Twitter and YouTube.
You can thank me later.
have been a rich man
I have been a poor man since I invested in feb 2021.The stupid it hurts.
Why so much hate? Have you checked out hex and pulse?
If you read what you said literally, it says you were rich, invested in crypto and have been poor since feb 2021.
@deme: Well I think it’s a matter of perspective but I can see how you may have interpreted my comments.
I made good money initially (rich man) then the crash came in May(poor man). But we’re on the way back up again(soon to be rich man).
You can say that about stock or property market.And in that crash period I used all my learnings and trawled through the countless YT videos and gurus and found HEX and pulsechain. And I can say these are the projects I’m heavily backing as they are relatively decoupled from the rest of crypto.
Buy Stake Hold
Seen people here laughing at Bitcoin when it was under 10k. Read up about it, it's here to stay. We all had the opportunity to load up before the institutions. Hope you did.
Read up about it, it's here to stay.
This is so wheezily, you haven't said anything except for a thinly vailed attempt at pumping bitcoin. Offer something of value for example "you can do payments with low fees".
What value is bitcoin to you?
Didn't know i could pump Bitcoin on Ozbargain forums. Silly accusation. Read the The Bitcoin Standard. “If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry.” Do your own homework.
What do you use Bitcoin for?
@deme: Bitcoin can be used as a store of value outside the control of governments and careless money printing. It seems volatile now but within a few years bitcoin will become a "boring" asset class as the volatility levels out and it becomes more like a governement bond in nature.
It is also very handy for cross border transactions. If you are an immigrant with family back home you are able to send money almost instantly (or faster than any traditional banking service) back to your family much cheaper than with say Western Union. This can be taken even further when you consider some countries where the majority of the population is "unbanked", meaning, Banks don't see it as profitable to provide someone who lives on less than $2 a day banking services so these people are unable to get bank accounts. there is no barrier to entry for using the bitcoin network to store, send and recieve money. Just think what this opens up for the third world.
Finally… In australia and many countries around the world governments are beginning to tighten peoples rights to access of their own money without "good reason". I can't remember if the "cash ban" actually passed legislation in Australia but the ability to withdraw more than $10k from your bank account without having to answer to authorities was being hotly debated. If i want to buy a $12k car second hand from someone… I'd be treated as if i'm doing something wrong and i would be required to jump through additional hoops just to use my money that i spent time working for… I could even miss out on a great price on the car because i couldn't offer cash as it would take longer to get it. Or, I could offer the value in bitcoin, transfer it straight to the person, they see it land in their wallet and they hand over the keys.
I can already anticipate the argument that the price is too volitile and no one would accept bitcoin but again… bitcoin is young… only 10 years old in fact. It's still in the price discovery phase and that price will be dictated by the value people place on soverignty of their money and wealth.
@mitchalbrown: I wouldn’t bother replying anymore. OP seems more interested in picking holes in what we have to say rather than being genuinely curious.
@mitchalbrown: And even the American stock market now approved, and American bankers are being advised to have at least 5% bitcoin in their portfolios.
So true.
I'm HODLing my bitcoins too
How did you learn?
Jumped in with a small amount.
Kept reading and following forums (important: if people give you advice on which coin to invest in it most likely is because someone told them to, and that person was told by someone else).
Read the coins white pages.
Learn how to read Candlestick charting (not just the usual ticker tape graph)
Tool a risk with crypto.com, as not only did their coin look stable and loved what they're trying to achieve, but as they have a good deal of other perks such as a crypto vais card with cashback, 100% reimbursement of my spotify and netflix subscription, and free airport lounge access, and great staking percentages 6-14% APY).
Still using crypto.comHow what strategies do you use to invest?
Initially start small, and RECORD EVERYTHING YOU DO (at times you need to learn from your mistakes with investing)
Only invested what prepared to lose (no literally… Don't get in too deep)
I would buy when the coin was cheap and sell when it peaked bug, and then do this again unitil I made enough $ that I could remove the amount I originally invested and still own the amount of coins I started with.
Then I kept doing the same (knowing I was playing with 'casino money' gave me big balls with investing).
Kept staking the coins I had in their high return term deposits (1-3 months periods)
Eventually converting some of my less stable coins for more stable ones and then kept regularly buying small amounts out of my limited crypto budget (originally this was only $50/week, but as the profits grew so did my budget..BUT WATCH OUT FOR GREED)..
Keep greed in check at all times. Investing in crypto can be similar to gambling in both risks and addiction.
Also: know in advance at what price i plan to buy at and sell at and I stick to it. (Found an app that allowed me to set alarms on my phone to tell me when this occured). AND STUCK TO THAT PLAN RELIGIOUSLY.What coins do you invest in?
Hell… I still have some of the ponzie coin called SafeMoon (yes I know.. The name should have been the warning) I keep this as a way to remind myself no to blindly invest again,
I bought in Doge and shib and XRP when idiots followed Elon's advice as gospel (people have wished up on his inside trading techniques now).Overall in order highest amounts of coins I have in my portfolio are:
CRO
HTC
ETH
ADA
and about 20 other coins that I enjoy gambling small amounts with.Hope this is of help.
Bought eth at the peak in May and have only just broken even.
Learn to DCA or ladder in on dips. It's an easier risk management strategy than a lump sum.
Yes I learnt that the hard way, its difficult to time the dips.
I use Binance, pretty much just in XRP but only small amounts, playing really. Was hoping the SEC lawsuit would be done next month but news today looks like it'll be another year..
I buy on Binance and then withdraw to TrustWallet. It's only .25 XRP fee, crazy for some of the others tho. Risky to leave your crypto on the exchange, and no reason to if long term holding
shittop coins