In my state all three versions of public transport were recently privatised.
Prior to this occurring authorised public transport workers could issue fines to those who didn't pay for a ticket (as an example).
My question is simply that now that all the public transport has been privatised can it's workers still legally issue fines?
For clarity I'm asking this question purely out of curiosity and I am otherwise a rule abiding citizen who pays his public transport fares.
While private companies may not have the right to fine you, they may have the right to detain you if you have committed an offence until the police arrive and you are then charged with the offence.
No. Workers don't have the right to touch anyone unless it has been granted by either state or federal laws.
People should never deprive another person of their liberty unless they're authorised to do so. Being sued for unlawful arrest can be quite expensive.
I didnt say they could "arrest" someone, that can only be done by law enforcement. I also didn't mention "touching" someone.
And my word, under certain sections of law, you are able to "detain" someone until police arrive. Essentially, fare evasion is trespass, as you have not adhered to the conditions of entry to the transport service and have entered enclosed land. The requirement to enter is that you agree to pay. If you don't pay or bypass paying, you could be committing trespass. Under NSW trespass laws, the owner of the land or a designated representative may be allowed to detain the trespasser until police arrive.
6 Offender may be apprehended
(1) Any person found committing any offence against this Act, and who refuses, when required to do so, to give his or her name and place of abode, may be apprehended by the owner, occupier, or person in charge of the inclosed lands upon or in relation to which the offence was committed, and delivered to the custody of the nearest constable to be taken before a Magistrate or an authorised officer within the meaning of the Criminal Procedure Act 1986 to be dealt with according to law.
It may also be considered similar to shoplifting, as you are using a service without paying for it, essentially "stealing" transport that would otherwise cost you money. The NSW Police site has this to say about "citizens arrest";
The Crimes Act says that you (or any person) may ‘arrest’ someone who is caught committing, or who has just committed an offence which is punishable under the law.
The law also says that if a number of people act together intending to achieve an illegal result, then every act done by one of them is done by all of them.
You may stop and detain a person who has committed an offence such as stealing:
- At the time they commit the offence, or
- Immediately after they commit an offence
In NSW, under the Law Enforcement (Power and Responsibilities) ACT 2002, section 100, it says;
100 Power of other persons to arrest without warrant (cf Crimes Act 1900, s 352)
(1) A person (other than a police officer) may, without a warrant, arrest a person if—
(a) the person is in the act of committing an offence under any Act or statutory instrument, or
(b) the person has just committed any such offence, or
(c) the person has committed a serious indictable offence for which the person has not been tried.(2) A person who arrests another person under this section must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, take the person, and any property found on the person, before an authorised officer to be dealt with according to law.
The legal definition of detain is to restrict someone's freedom of movement. To detain someone requires in most circumstances the use of force.
Like I said.
No. Workers don't have the right to touch anyone unless it has been granted by either state or federal laws.
There are lawyers that love to fight for people that have been unlawfully arrested or detained.
https://obriensolicitors.com.au/case-studies-unlawful-impris…
@rektrading: Not the point. Your original comment was;
Workers don't have the right to touch anyone unless it has been granted by either state or federal laws.
And I just posted the laws to show you that your comment was wrong. There are laws that allow people to detain people who are or who have just committed and offence. What happens after that is up to the courts to decide, but there are laws that allow people to detain someone if they are, or have just committed an offence.
What the laywers do after the event has no relation to the laws if they are adhered to correctly. In most of those cases you posted a link to, the law was not adhered to correctly. How about the amount of cases that are detained correctly. These are a few they have won, but how many more are upheld?
The point remains, if you are traveling without a valid ticket or are trespassing on enclosed lands, you stand a chance that you could and may be detained until police arrive to conduct an investigation.
The state in question is South Australia.
The only people that can issue enforceable infringement notices are officers and/or persons authorised under particular legislation.
You have the right to ask the person that issues the notice for their ID, who they work for, under what legislation they're issuing the notice and what the violation is.
I’ve seen ticket inspectors in the private bus company uniform… so I guess they can issue fines.
They can issue fines, but they are not enforceable.
When’s someone going to post the free public transport deal then
Ring up the state government transport department in YOUR state and ask them as in my state the 'three versions of public transports" are still mostly government run.
I'm an industry thought leader on this topic so allow me to demistify.
They can and they will but they won't enforce it because it'll actually cost more to pursue you in court to recoup the price of a ticket + an abritrary fine on top.
Similar to private car parks, they can slap a fine on your windshield but you'll never hear from them because it doesn't make financial sense.
they can slap a fine on your windshield
If it is a private car park operator, then it is not a fine. It is a "debt notice" for "liquidated damages". The only people who can issues "fines" are government bodies, (ie: local council/state/federal) OR their authorised representatives.
As an "industry thought leader", you would know this…
Correct you are. Uni was a long time ago so my business law jargon is rather ordinary but you get my point.
The government will use police and/or authorised officers for patrols so they'll be the ones issuing fines - just like they do in Melbourne.
They're not going to let people get away with fare evasion that easily!
Probably not fines but “liquidated damages” or "debt notice"… What state are we even talking about? (Would help with finding legislation/information/examples)
And it doesn’t matter, the transport legislation would still exist and there would still be laws around "fare evasion" for example, and these “private operators” may/would have some agreement with the state government to minimise this by using “loss prevention officers” registered, trained and certified to issues tickets to offenders. Much the same as some councils have private companies issuing parking infringement notices for illegally parked cars.
You would be best to contact your states transport authority and clarify with them. The private company may run the transport system but they usually don't own the infrastructure (Basically rent it off the state government). You may find that the enforcement officers still are government employees.
While private companies may not have the right to fine you, they may have the right to detain you if you have committed an offence until the police arrive and you are then charged with the offence.