When Is a House a Duplex?

sydney1506 on 01/04/2022 - 09:34
Last edited 04/04/2022 - 12:05

We're buying a plot of land and wanted to build a duplex but the council do not allow it.

The idea was to have the two homes so that our parents could be close so we can help as needed but still have their independence as much as possible.
Apparently a duplex is when there are 2 kitchens and 2 laundries.

So we're thinking perhaps we connect the living room areas but put a sliding door for privacy and then only have the one kitchen.
But thats not ideal.

I know some of our neighbours have put kitchens on both floors of their homes and 'move' upstairs and downstairs during summer/winter. Technically this is then considered a duplex according to the rules, so how is that then allowed?

Does it matter if it is a full kitchen or kitchenette? What is the difference between the two?

And a granny flat isn't a real option from a space point of view as the 60m2 is too small as the folks often have the family and friends around.

UPDATE: Council have just come back with another update… We're not allowed to have dual occupancy or even a secondary dwelling like granny flat!
So now the only option is to build a big family home on one meter with 1 kitchen and laundry, but designed in such a way that we can brick up a couple walls and install a kitchen and laundry later.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Quantumcat on 01/04/2022 - 09:48
    +2

    If a duplex has to have two kitchens and two laundries then don't put in a second laundry and they can use yours? Or install a washing machine in their kitchen.

    • JimmyF on 01/04/2022 - 10:15
      +1

      Or install a washing machine in their kitchen.

      Unless something has changed recently, it's not that 'legal' either to do that unless you jump through a few hoops depending on the state.

      http://www.kbdimembers.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Tec…

      Can install in the bathroom no issues!

      • sydney1506 on 01/04/2022 - 10:27

        Hmmm, interesting… I think a washing machine in bathroom would be easier than kitchen since its already waterproofed.

      • Pumpkin_rrr on 02/04/2022 - 10:45

        This is interesting. I have seen houses with "European Kitchen" whereby the Washing Machine is in the Kitchen, for ease of plumbing. Some is tucked inside a Cupboard…..

  • JimB on 01/04/2022 - 09:48
    +9

    'Apparently a duplex is when there are 2 kitchens and 2 laundries.'

    Not necessarily, a Duplex is a 2 separate residences under 1 roof, separate titles, separate meters.

    Which council is this? You need a better architect.

    • JimmyF on 01/04/2022 - 10:19
      +2

      Not necessarily, a Duplex is a 2 separate residences under 1 roof, separate titles, separate meters.

      Doesn't even need to be separate residences, i.e. you have a granny flat arrangement under the same roof.

      Was looking at designing a house with an area for the oldies to live so no separate titles or meters, all shared on one title. They just have their own kitchen/bathroom/living area etc. Wanted to add a laundry to save dragging clothes from one end of the house to the other, but once you add a 2nd room titled 'laundry', things fall apart with council planning.

      The designer said to make a 2nd laundry room, you just can't call it a laundry room on the plans! So its a Utility/wash room with a sink and bench etc, plus under bench space! That washing machine and dryer just happen to fit under. Go figure!

      • JimB on 01/04/2022 - 11:22
        +1

        Without separate meters it's a quasi-duplex.

        It looks like a duplex and is fine for a family.

        But without separate meters, you can still rent it out but can't directly bill the tenant for usage.

  • SF3 on 01/04/2022 - 09:49
    +3

    wanted to build a duplex but the council do not allow it.

    Probably means you they ain’t letting you subdivide the land. So can’t be sold as 2 separate properties even if you build it as 2 totally “independent”place of resident.

    Therefore won’t have 2 torrens titles, it’s still be 1.

    • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 10:03

      Probably means you they ain’t letting you subdivide the land.

      This. They expect the registered lot to be on a single title.

      I suspect the land sizes and/or floor spaces of the proposed subdivided property are below thresholds set in the planning by-laws.

    • sydney1506 on 01/04/2022 - 10:16

      We wont be subdividing, thats not an option either, which is fine.
      No plans on selling separately so not a concern :)

  • netjock on 01/04/2022 - 09:58
    +2

    Talk to an architect who knows the planning rules of the area.

    I assume you want to build one house with two kitchens and two laundries which you would have to comply with different planning rules.

    You could just build one big house and have rooms which you can convert to kitchen and laundry after. Just don't tell them that.

    Alternatively just build front house with a wider drive way (3m) going into the back and build a granny flat 1BR or 2BR.

  • rektrading on 01/04/2022 - 10:01

    So we're thinking perhaps we connect the living room areas but put a sliding door for privacy and then only have the one kitchen.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's to my understanding that a duplex is two separate titles.

  • JimmyF on 01/04/2022 - 10:11
    +1

    Apparently a duplex is when there are 2 kitchens and 2 laundries.

    Its the 2nd laundry that is the issue. You can have 5 kitchens and no one blinks an eyelid, but add a 2nd laundry and its like stop the bus!!!

    The work around is, make it a tiny bathroom/washroom/utility room with just a sink to get the plumbing etc and under bench storage etc, just don't label it as a laundry!!!

  • deme on 01/04/2022 - 10:17
    +4

    Just pay the property developer fee.

    • sydney1506 on 01/04/2022 - 10:23

      haha, if only i was a property developer!

  • juzza87 on 01/04/2022 - 10:24
    +1

    Damn government controlling how many kitchens or laundries we're allowed in our own homes. What's the definition of a kitchen? Could you have one room with gas and water plumbing and stick a gas operated barbeque in it, and call it a litchen or kaundry?

    • chriskq on 01/04/2022 - 10:44
      +5

      lol you can't use gas bbq's indoors…. gezz

    • iCandy on 02/04/2022 - 08:51
      -1

      You’ll die from carbon monoxide poisoning if you use a gas barbecue indoors. The planning rules are, for example, to stop your neighbour from converting a house into a multiple occupancy dwelling with all of the issues that come with that change such as extra cars on the street, 20 people jammed into the one house with their comings and goings and noise. It brings down the value of other houses on the street.

  • sydney1506 on 01/04/2022 - 10:46

    So is it possible to just build one big house but have separate meters to the left and right hand sides?
    Basically, turn a house into a 'duplex' (build it big with an opening between the two entertainment areas, then close up later, add a kitchen and laundry to bathroom) with its own meters, even if one title.

    • JimB on 01/04/2022 - 11:15

      Not possible.

      • Euphemistic on 01/04/2022 - 11:22

        The separate meters are going to be a big sign that it’s 2 dwellings.

        • JimB on 01/04/2022 - 11:23
          -1

          I agree but what's a 'spear'?

          • Euphemistic on 01/04/2022 - 11:24
            +2

            @JimB: A typo I managed to fix before you replied!

    • stirlo on 01/04/2022 - 11:28

      So is it possible to just build one big house but have separate meters to the left and right hand sides?

      Probably not. Why separate meters though? Considering you're about to invest $100,000's of thousands dollars on a building the space whats a couple of grand a year in bills that need to be evened out?

      • iCandy on 02/04/2022 - 08:53
        +1

        Because he wants to be able to rent out the other duplex when parents pass on and charge the tenants for utilities.

  • Euphemistic on 01/04/2022 - 11:00

    Sounds like it isn’t a simple answer. What Joe public thinks is a duplex may or may not meet the definition to council.

    Only the council and builders/architects that work with that council will know how you can make it work.

  • stirlo on 01/04/2022 - 11:29
    +1

    As everyone else has said just add a "washroom"/"mudroom" that has the ability to add a washing machine later. Once the approval is granted and the build has commenced council can't just force their way in and say "Why did you put a washing machine there???"

    A good example was even on national TV recently on The Block. One of the contestants put a "day spa" in their basement that was not allowed to be "habitable space" according to council rules meaning it couldn't be a bedroom or studio. The "day spa" conveniently had a toilet, shower and sink. Obviously the new owner of the house will just ignore this requirement and use the space as a den/bedroom and the council can do nothing about it. Technically the requirements were met for the permit. Incidentally their house also won the whole competition…

  • wallet72 on 01/04/2022 - 11:33
    +2

    Our granny flat was built on the roof - basically a second floor. No sacrificing yard and it was cheaper to do this way because no earth works.

  • JIMB0 on 02/04/2022 - 12:50

    Put a spot for a second dishwasher in the second kitchen. Then later you can fit a front loader washing machine in its place.

  • Tigercjn on 02/04/2022 - 13:00

    Just have a door that can be locked into a butler's kitchen (2nd Kitchen) and have a utility room that can become the 2nd laundry.

    I just converted my Laundry into a Utility Room/Butlers Kitchen, removed the back door and slid the washing machine outside a little, bricking up a cavity.
    Moved the stone bench from the kitchen to the utility room and installed it 1/2 in and 1/2 out with a servery window that full opens, it works great for us.

  • LFO on 02/04/2022 - 17:02

    What is the difference between the two?

    A Duplex is, in Australia but not overseas, two dwellings having a common wall and in totally different property titles. So they could be sold and bought as an individual dwelling sharing a common wall. Other option is a detached whereas dwellings do not touch.

    For your own parents that should be irrelevant and provided your both have privacy but are close enough to be able to assist is all you might need.
    Properly separated "areas" is probably all is needed.

    If the idea is for later to sell that duplex then it is a different dog altogether.

    • sydney1506 on 04/04/2022 - 06:36

      What is the difference between the two? - Was referring to the kitchenette vs kitchen in council's eyes.
      The issue is actually the council do not allow dual occupancy as it turns out - whether duplex, detached, etc. Can only build a house with a 60m2 granny flat… unless I can 'hack' the design…

      • Euphemistic on 04/04/2022 - 08:51
        +1

        Pretty much anyone should be able to design a house that once approved could be adapted to have a separate living quarters included. Design a living room that has space for a galley kitchen and access to plumbing. Design a bathroom that has space for a washing machine. Hint: bathroom for disability access will be pretty big.

        • LFO on 04/04/2022 - 13:08
          +1

          I feel the aim is later selling/leasing or perhaps claiming an "independent" abode with separate living arrangements for tax/Centerlink purposes.

          Agree that everyone is able to design and build a house with "separate" areas.

  • 82norm on 02/04/2022 - 20:28

    Buy a caravan and have it permanently on your driveway.

    • sydney1506 on 04/04/2022 - 15:22

      Thought about it! :)
      Even looked into the VanHomes as they don't need a permit in NSW but not the parentals aren't convinced nor am I…

  • sydney1506 on 04/04/2022 - 12:05

    UPDATE: Council have just come back with another update… We're not allowed to have dual occupancy or even a secondary dwelling like granny flat!
    So now the only option is to build a big family home on one meter with 1 kitchen and laundry, but designed in such a way that we can brick up a couple walls and install a kitchen and laundry later.

    • Euphemistic on 04/04/2022 - 14:13

      Which leads to why would you want to go to that effort?

      • sydney1506 on 04/04/2022 - 15:21

        Privacy and independence for everyone…

        • Euphemistic on 04/04/2022 - 15:22

          You can do that with a door - but you shouldn’t be doing this in this location. The council does not permit dual occupancy.

          • sydney1506 on 04/04/2022 - 15:26

            @Euphemistic: I'm not saying we are going to do this, just saying that this appears to be the only way to do it… Trying to look after parents with these restrictions is challenging. They might just have to use our laundry and perhaps just put in a small kitchenette with microwave only and then at least it will be compliant.

            • Euphemistic on 04/04/2022 - 15:30
              -2

              @sydney1506: Your best solution is to purchase appropriate dwelling/s or block of land that permits dual occupancy.

  • cupcake on 12/07/2022 - 11:01

    It all depends on your plot of land. Duplex rules say the frontage has to be at least 15 metres wide or something like that.
    Granny flats are typically on corner blocks too, but it all depends on your plot of land. You have to check with your council and ask them.

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